Yes, and titles are priceless. > Just to throw some salt in the wounds, the Federal Government has a law that > states that any federal employee or govenrment contractor cannot accept any > gift from a vendor with a value greater than $80. Anything over that is > considered improper and a conflict of interest. If you accept the gift and > you are a government contractor, you risk getting busted & fined by the GAO > as well risk losing your contract. > > Greg, last time I checked, pens and paper were less that $80.00. > > Eric Fretz > > L-3 Communications > ComCept Division > 2800 Discovery Blvd. > Rockwall, TX 75032 > tel: 972.772.7501 > fax: 972.772.7510 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ely, Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:35 AM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Migrating from GroupWise 6.5 > > > Oh, that was not a personal attack... And I don't lose arguments... > > I tell ya what. You find me the documentation to support your claim for our > industry and I might be inclined to believe you. I'll need actual laws > passed by Federal/Local Governments or a consortium of some kind AND any > cases that were brought to trial on this subject. Please provide these > details in a time stamped format so I can see at what point in time these > laws went into effect... > > There ARE laws on the books regarding this perceived ethical violation, > right? > > Everyone should probably cease assisting you with your Groupwise migration > since it might get those of us who are not MVP's nominated for such things > and it would be unethical of us to assist you. So, please stop asking for > help as the answers we provide will be unethical in nature... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:34 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Migrating from GroupWise 6.5 > > Personal attacks are generally the clearest sign that someone has lost an > argument and has nothing better to say. So now I am a wife beater, a liar, I > starve children and I get beat up a lot. I keep learning things about myself > that I never knew before, I love this list. > > > You got beat up a lot in High School didn't you... You should have > > asked them (while being beaten to a pulp) to leave you some brain > > cells to operate with... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:20 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Migrating from GroupWise 6.5 > > > > Titles are priceless. > > > > Ethics are about avoiding real and *perceived* conflicts of interest. > > If you work in an industry and accept gifts from vendors in that > > industry, it is always going to at least be a perceived conflict of > > interest. Whether it actually is or not is absolutely irrelevant. If > > you own your own business and provide consulting on how to build > > bridges, then no, an MVP title would not be a real or perceived conflict > of interest. If you are in IT, it is. > > > > > > > Kindly define "significant gifts such as large dollar items and > > > titles". Where, exactly is your threshold? Let's get down to > > > specifics, Greg. > > > > > > How is it a conflict of interest when it is my job to provide > > > consulting services surrounding Microsoft products? It is not my > > > job, for example, to steer people away from Windows to Linux. > > > > > > Why can one not serve two masters, particularly if the two masters' > > > directions are complementary? Still, your entire point is flawed > > > since neither Microsoft nor the MVP program is my master, and > > > neither ask anything of me, period. (I take that back--they do ask > > > one thing, that we behave in the forums. If you claim that's a > > > conflict of interest, it will further confirm my belief that you've > > > lost it.) The MVP award is a "thank you", if you will, for past > > > service. Not once has anyone directed me to do a single thing. > > > > > > Again, for 11,000,001st time, you have failed to adequately explain > > > how there is any conflict of interest between my being an MVP and > > > what my employer asks me to do. Microsoft gives MVPs a modest > > > non-monetary award for their work doing peer support. It's right > > > there, disclosed in the MVP website, as I told you before. > > > Personally, I provide this peer support service on my own personal > > > time, not my employer's, and of my > > own free will. > > > My employer pays me to perform consulting on Microsoft Exchange, > > > Windows and various other complementary technologies to its customers. > > > Most other MVPs are either consultants or Exchange administrators. > > > We answer technical questions and try to help people with their > > > technical problems. We do not sell Microsoft products. Whatever we > > > say we believe. Where is the conflict of interest, pray tell? > > > > > > I cannot recall ever having been encouraged to evangelize > > > Microsoft's products because I am an MVP. Personally, I don't > > > hesitate to express my opinions about Exchange even if the good > > > folks at Microsoft disagree with me. Many others who have been MVPs > > > longer that I are even > > more forthcoming. > > > Please demonstrate exactly what the conflict of interest is and its > > > insidious result, Mr. Deckler. How, exactly, has the MVP program > > > caused such an ethical dilemma that you must rant and rave over it? > > > Let's get specific, though, because your 50,000-foot view is rather > > unconvincing. > > > > > > For the record, my employer knows I am an MVP, knows that I receive > > > a modest gift of appreciation, and has no problem with this. So my > > > employer, which happens to be a very ethical company, has no problem > > > with > > this arrangement. > > > Why should you? > > > > > > It is mighty judgmental of you to presume that any person is > > > unprofessional solely because he does not adhere to your personal > > standards of ethics. > > > Your opinion implies that because you define there to be a conflict > > > of interest, no reasonable person can decide for himself to the > contrary. > > > That is, you see yourself as the sole arbiter of professional ethics > > > in this field. Clearly you believe that MVPs are unprofessional > > > because they do not adhere to your standards of ethics, even if > > > those standards are undefined and based solely upon your own > > > simplistic idea of standards, your own ignorance, your logical > > > fallacies, and your personal prejudices. As long as you espouse > > > such ridiculous ideas, I will > > call you on them. > > > > > > You've been spewing this bile for eight years and you know you're > > > right because, to paraphrase, nobody has proven you wrong. The real > > > problem is that you haven't convinced anyone other than yourself > > > that > > you're right. > > > You are the one with the opinions. But wait--you say you deal in > > > facts. In an eariler post, you state that it should be obvious that > > > everything you say is your opinion. Which is it, fact or opinion? > > > Well, I will argue that you don't deal in facts, you're all about > > > opinion, so don't go claiming it's all about "known facts". There > > > isn't a single fact in your diatribe except for those that say or > > > imply, "I believe...". I do agree that it's a fact that you believe > > > some > > ridiculous point. > > > > > > People do read what you say in your posts, as opposed to reading > > > what they read. Everyone recognizes that you are speaking with your > > > own voice. It's obvious to all that you really believe what you say > > > and have a firm conviction. That's how they know for certain that > > > you're a > > bag of gas. > > > > > > As to this thread being a waste of bytes, it has been your choice to > > > continue it. It seems hypocritical that you post a complaint that > > > everyone else is wasting their time and bandwidth, when you yourself > > > are guilty of just that by posting such messages. > > > > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang > =english > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang > =english > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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