Hell hath no fury as those who presume to speak for another... On Feb 23, 2017 11:29 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> All— > > > > If you want to find the Dylan Roof key on your own emotional piano, think > about the last time you indulged yourself in road rage. According to one > kind of evolutionary psychology, road rage is an instance of "altruistic > punishment". Altruistic punishment is selected at the group level. When > in that groove, we are so possessed that we are *willing to risk our own > lives to support the norms of our perceived in-group*. > > > > Altruistic rage is by far the most dangerous emotion we experience. Not > how Trump works tirelessly to create the conditions that will foster it. > Every genocide is preceded by “conditioning” to suppose that it is our > highest duty to defend our values against those who do not share them. > > Nick Thompson > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Vladimyr > Burachynsky > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:59 PM > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' < > friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs > > > > Glen, > > > > I think Robert Wall is nudging close to an idea that he failed to > adequately clarify but you may have nailed it while trying to deny it (this > I call a backhanded strike). Last week there was a strange article about > groups of people having the same memory that have no contact with each > other. That shared memory was in fact demonstrably false. It was regarding > a misperceived memory of a TV show called Shazaam and some comedian called > Sinbad... My mind retains utter garbage sometimes. > > > > I never saw it but then it never actually happened. The investigators > explained that so many of the false memory components overlapped reality > that the subjects truly believed some occurrence that was categorically > disproved. So a society may well share memories of fictional events and act > on delusions ie mobs. > > > > If an individual may fall into a groove then how else can mass insanity be > better explained. I always recall that in history strange things happen on > mass scale. For instance during the heated animosity between the Greeks and > Latins a feud broke out over religious icons. West was Iconophilic and the > east was Iconoclastic. The Latins were so pissed they assembled an armada > in Rimini or Ravenna and sailed this monstrosity down the Adriatic to > defend the faith. Somewhere between Brindisi and Corfu the greatest > historical storm destroyed the entire fleet of ships sparing Byzantium a > certain defeat. So Leo made a few compromises and things sort of settled > down but then another group of serious iconoclasts made trouble the > Paulicians. Then the Muslims came along and the world is still fractured in > many ways. It always struck me as the height of insanity to go to war over > Symbols and I think Monty Python once made a skit out of crusaders and > muslims beating the crap out of each other with religious banners and > gilded reliquaries. While the armed knights and Saracens looked on in > amazement. Whether this ever happened , I do not know, but can guess. > Perhaps " the groove" has a darkside a suicidal aspect, such as the Battle > of Gallipoli, as well as the neutral individual features we love to discuss > openly. > > > > I always suspected that Hatred is transmitted from mothers to children as > is influenza propagation. I recall some very strange conversations between > my German Mother and Ukrainian Aunt that bordered on the rabid hatred of > mad dogs. Then they just continued serving Christmas dinner in total > silence, when the men returned to the dinner table. My Uncle a devout > Catholic and former Ukrainian Cavalry Officer would think nothing of > Beheading Russians long after he was defeated in the 1920's. Indeed he was > otherwise a rational Civil Engineer with a penchant for Botany but he hated > anything that sounded affiliated with Russia or Eastern Orthodoxy. I could > never tell the difference except for the slanted foot support on the > crucifix. Hardly enough reason for bloodshed. > > > > But Dylan Rouffe and Alexandre Bisonette slaughtered defenseless > congregations and showed no shame nor regret. They may be said to have been > proud of what they did. Anders Brevijk may well have been in a dark trench > at the time of his methodical depredations of children, again no shame. No > one mentions that that slaughter by a single man exceeded anything in the > Old Testament perhaps a Cuiness World Record. Populism may well be a filthy > outpouring of bottled up hatred. And the perverted demagogues revel in the > delusion that they can manipulate it to their personal benefits. > > > > It is not a welcome insight into human nature, I apologize for disturbing > the peace. > > > > Well Canada is sending taxis to the border to rescue Somali's ignorant of > our cold. Now our old ladies think the sky is falling because of a few > refugees trying to run from Trump. Back in the 1960's and 70's we took in > hundreds of American draft dodgers and the sun remained in Orbit. > > > > I must admit that I had some fun today speaking to a millennial visitor > that could no longer abide liberal visciousness in the media. Left or > right they are both resorting to fascistic techniques. He expected me to > support the right but i laughed it off, I am more of a centrist anarchist I > confessed, the other side of the sphere, so there was no need to abuse my > hospitality. > > > > > > vib > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <friam-boun...@redfish.com>] > On Behalf Of glen ? > > Sent: February-23-17 5:12 PM > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs > > > > > > Right, I think I got that you meant society being in the zone. You > expressed doubt and I disagree with you -- meaning only that I have less > doubt. 8^) I think society can (and does, often) get into a > zone/groove/flow. Some symptoms that are often complained about are "mob > behavior", "groupthink", etc. Some symptoms that are lauded are "wisdom of > crowds", "negative freedoms" (freedom to _not_ be mugged, etc.), low > unemployment, etc. > > > > My reference to my individual state of mind when I'm engaged in social > activity was probably misleading, however. What I should have referred to > is something like stigmergy or the co-constructed landscape, > infrastructure. Some of us complain about the entitlement of the younger > generations. But really it's a good thing that they feel entitled ... > entitled to walk down dark alleys without being killed ... entitled to buy > a state of the art automobile for only $25k ... entitled to drive that > automobile and experience the (waning) culture of Route 66. Etc. > > > > These are "society in a groove". And it's a good thing for the most > part. There are risks, e.g. populism, riots, the absence of critical > thinking ... not knowing how to start a fire without a lighter, etc. > > > > Anyway, so I disagree with the idea that society, as a group, can't be "in > the zone". But I believe that the thoughts inside the members of the > society are not really _shared_ thoughts. The societal groove does not > depend on isomorphic relationships between the insides of the members' > heads. (holography again) And the extent to which individuals' grooves map > to societal grooves is unclear (and probably complex). > > > > > > On 02/22/2017 12:18 PM, Robert Wall wrote: > > >> As for being in the zone socially, I disagree, though I don't > > >> particularly care about any jargonal co-option of the term. During > > >> hearty arguments, mostly with religious people, I definitely lose > > >> myself in exactly the same way I lose myself after that 3rd mile when > > >> running. I have no illusions that my zone is in any way shared by > > >> the people I'm arguing with, though ... no more than I think you and > > >> I share internal constructs mediated by the word "blue" > > > > > > > > > To be clear, Glen, I was referring to a society being "in the zone" as > > > a whole. Maybe this could mean an alignment of symbolic references. > > > Not sure, but, like you, somewhat dubious that this could happen. > > > Within my philosophy group, we have discussed the idea of *conscious > > > evolution*--becoming, say, wiser, by being "in the zone" so to > > > speak--*with respect to the individua*l. And I do see this as kind of > > > a Csikszentmihalyi-est "being in the zone," a period of selfless > > > awareness of a task or challenge. It's a neurological phenomenon. The > > > objective is to make the period last as long as possible. Society is > > > not very good at being selfless, even for a moment. > > > > > > Perhaps with the assistance of Hebbian learning, say, over time this > > > is possible for individuals who work at it to remain in this state > > > longer than is typical. It becomes a skill or practice. But bubbling > > > this up to the level of a society does not seem possible. Religion > > > hasn't and won't do it because that's a model that requires blind > > > credulity to the provided surreal symbols. Even in the context of > > > Hebbian learning, where are the "societal neurons" that need to be > rewired from their inculcated states? > > > They tend to be imbued in the laws and in the prevailing morality memes. > > > But these are just things to be gamed to ensure a *face validity* with > > > our self-full life simulations. > > > > > > The key component to any smart system is feedback. But, we live in a > > > society that is running open loop. Another form of loopiness or > > > delusion, I guess ... believing that everything will work out in the > > > long run. We are exceptional. We have democratic elections ... Hmmm, > > > I think the awakening is happening. Maybe there is hope? Is that a > > > drone I hear above ... Oh, it's just an Amazone delivery ... or is it? > > > :-) > > > > > > > > -- > > ☣ glen > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
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