Not everything is a game. Or if it is, why follow rules? That sounds a lot more fun.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 1:18 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence But why discourage this kind of duplicity? The people I talk to who play Poker often mention that lying is what makes the game fun. "Flattening" out the game so that everyone always sees everyone's cards doesn't seem as fun. On 9/22/21 1:14 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > For example, if you have a boss that says "I support you doing X", and then > the boss goes to their boss and says "Glen shouldn't do X", that's is > duplicity. The boss is using the fact they have access to you and to their > boss in distinct circles. It makes it easy for them to lie. But by > recording the fact that your boss said X was a great idea in a face to face > meeting, you can discourage this kind of duplicity, which is not in any way > "interesting". My claim is that face to face meetings have no special > status. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 1:04 PM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence > > One place such reductionism comes into play is Hume's Guillotine: > https://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2010/01/humes-guillotine.html > > Personally, this incessant attempt to dichotomize the world into 2 things > tires me. Duplicity is simply an uninteresting form of multiplicity. At least > even Nick argues for triads. 8^D One of my favorite examples while Trump was > in charge was Hillary's gaffe about having a public *and* private opinion on > Wall Street. > > Well, duh... We all have both public and private opnions on just about > everything. Not only that, but we have semi-public and semi-private opinions > on just about everything. What drives the tu quoque fallacy? > > On 9/22/21 12:54 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> Nothing wrong with taking independent positions. Contradictory positions, >> or duplicitous positions used to advance politically can exposed for what >> they are though. Any amount of pain I can add to their lives is time well >> spent. >> >> Of course, the Murderous Profiteer can be a Wokeist for some definition of >> each. And it depends what the motive is. If one wants to extract candid >> views from compatible audiences for each prototype, e.g. as a undercover >> agent or as an anthropologist, that kind of deception is distinct than a >> self-serving one. Politicians would be the classic example of someone >> taking both sides depending on the audience. A generous perspective on >> such people would be that they are managing a divergent beliefs population >> and that it is necessary to do so. I would much prefer they argue back to >> the people they are representing to convince them they are wrong. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 12:41 PM >> To: friam@redfish.com >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence >> >> As long as the objective of illustrating people taking incompatible >> positions is to illustrate that incompatible positions are everywhere, all >> the time, I'd have no objection. But my reaction to some consistency >> hobgoblin pointing out how incompatible my Murderous Profiteer homunculus is >> with my Wokeist homunculus, will be to simply ignore whatever it is that >> person has to say from now on. Tell me something I don't know, Captain >> Obvious. >> >> On 9/22/21 12:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> I love the idea of Google Glass, but preferably covert -- pickups in my >>> visual cortex maybe. Then rather than wasting my time trying to find >>> something to watch on Netflix at the end of the day, I could flip through >>> my audio/visual experiences and build my Big Book of Lies for future >>> reference. >>> >>> iOS has a nice feature for sending different content to e-mail, to Slack, >>> whatever. It would be great fun to paste from these archives to >>> illustrate people taking incompatible positions to things they say in >>> writing, etc. >>> >>> And I don't see why Google Glass, or the Facebook glasses should have a >>> light. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 11:55 AM >>> To: friam@redfish.com >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence >>> >>> Yeah, continuing the trend of trashing "the hard problem", the zombie >>> argument never carried water for me. The duplicates argument, by contrast, >>> carries a lot ... ala the broken Star Trek Transporter that fails to >>> dissolve the original when it makes the copy. Can we really say the Kirk on >>> the planet is the same as the Kirk on the ship? What's the half-life for >>> the dissolution into 2 different Kirk-qualia? >>> >>> On 9/22/21 11:31 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>> The word that comes to mind is duplicity! >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 11:20 AM >>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence >>>> >>>> Is it a single spectrum? I suppose the typical use of "spectrum" implies a >>>> singular measure. But I don't intend it that way. So, maybe I need a >>>> better phrase ... "phase space"? "milieu"? "ambient muck"? >>>> >>>> One problem with medication, including implants and AR (witness Google >>>> Glassholes), is that it inhibits one's agility to swap in and out of >>>> "sticking out". At large parties, for example, I enjoy hopping from one >>>> clique to another and changing my personality so that it either fits in or >>>> sticks out. Alcohol tends to limit that ability ... at least in excess. >>>> Small parties suck, to be honest. You kinda have to choose your role at >>>> the beginning (or have your role chosen for you by history or an >>>> introduction by someone -- Renee' introduces the local lefties saying that >>>> I worked at Lockheed Martin and my role has been chosen for me ... killer >>>> profiteer's unite!). >>>> >>>> On 9/22/21 11:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>> Steve writes: >>>>> >>>>> < Is it a single spectrum? I propose a few components: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Self Exploration >>>>> 2. Creativity Enhancement >>>>> 3. Medicating for Social Anxiety >>>>> 4. Medicating for Depression >>>>> 5. Self Identity/Expression >>>>> 6. Avoidance >>>>> 7. ... >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Being a vegan, for example, is an inconvenience and one will tend to >>>>> impact a group. Not participating in the hedonism around you will make >>>>> you stick out. >>>> >>> >> > -- "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." ☤>$ uǝlƃ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . 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