Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.
The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries,
growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly - though it is
in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species &
cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of
favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.).
They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they
already have (or think they have).
The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the
top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify
plants - to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources
exist. They rely on the name something arrived at.
The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of
plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of
plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified). For
plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the
Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated
in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean
because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) - I have checked
plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index
semina.
Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any
different.
Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my
opinion are not Androsace globifera.
As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF - this, as I have already
stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia. It might be A,globifera but some
sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like 'Flowers of Himalaya' say
short-stalked or stalkless. It is the most likely candidate.
There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.
Interestingly, the image of A,globifera in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' shows
flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this
species in 'Portraits of Himalayan Flowers' (T.Yoshida), along with one of the
images in his 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated'.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>
To: C CHADWELL <[email protected]>
Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]>; Prashant awale
<[email protected]>; Dr. Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>; Dinesh Valke
<[email protected]>; Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>; D.S Rawat
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2016, 4:49
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256979] VoF Week: Primulaceae - Androsace
mucronifolia Watt
Thanks, Chadwell ji.To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the
following images (though I may or may not be
correct):http://www.phytoimages.siu. edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/ Primulaceae_Androsace_
globifera_93803.htmlhttps://commons.wikimedia.org/
wiki/File:Androsace_globifera_ 3.JPG
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Androsace_globifera#/media/
File:Androsace_globifera.jpghttps://www.nargs.org/plant/
androsace-globiferahttp://phytoimages.siu.edu/ imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_
Androsace_globifera_70529.html
http://garden.org/plants/view/ 133923/Rock-Jasmine-Androsace- globifera/
http://kallima.sk/species.php? plant=51
On 17 November 2016 at 19:07, C CHADWELL <[email protected]>
wrote:
Dr Rawat has kindly sent me the description of Androsace garwhalicum. The
photos taken in theVoF are definitely not A.mucronifolia.
We are currently checking through Androsaces recorded from India. There are
quite a number of taxawhere confusion/uncertainty exists. I am in agreement
with Dr Nasir in 'Primulaceae' (Flora of Pakistan) thatpast records for this
A.globifera in "the Punjab" are misidentifications. One of the specimens seems
to beAndrosace baltistanica whilst the other is likely to prove to be. I am
currently attempting to familiarisemyself with the latter species and how it is
distinguished from similar species in Ladakh. A.baltistanica wasnot know to
Stewart in his 'Annotated Catalogue...'
I do not understand on what basis Androsace garwhalicum has become a Primula!
Is there DNAor other non-morphological evidence to support this new
combination? It looks like an Androsace to me.....
I am attempting to familiarise myself with this species and how to distinguish
it from similar species and workout which species it is likely to have been
mistaken for in the past. In the description Dr Rawat sent there is a
keydistinguishing it from A.selagini (which I have not heard of) which is
apparently another new name (though noauthor is given) for A.selago Hook.f. &
Thoms.
Since A.selago is not recorded for Uttarakhand or indeed Nepal though is found
in Bhutan, Sikkim & Chumbi, it would have been helpful if the authors had told
us how to distinguish this new species from those alreadyrecorded from the
region such as A.globifera, which at present I think it the most likely species
it was mistakenfor in the past. Given the challenges this genus present and
lack of good reference descriptions such informationwould have been useful for
all those concerned.
According to 'Flora of Bhutan' (Vol 2 Part 2, 1999) Grierson & Long felt that
A.selago and A.tapete are variable specieswhich appear to intergrade. Further
research is needed on their distinction. Treatment as varieties may be
moreappropriate.
Please can group members look out for an make a special effort to photograph
Androsaces in the years to comeboth from higher and lower altitudes as knowing
where (geographically-speaking) at what altitude and in whichhabitats, each
species is found, represents meaningful information - as well as helping work
out abundance (ornot). Good close-ups of flowers (incl. petals & sepals) along
with foliage will contribute towards us being able todistinguish between
similar species with greater certainty.
I personally, would be particularly pleased to view good close-ups of
Androsaces from Ladakh to help me becomeclearer about the differences between
A.baltistanica, A.robusta and A.muscoidea in that region. I am reasonably
clearabout A.mucronifolia, A.sempervivoides, A.septentrionalis & A.thomsonii
which are also recorded from Ladakh.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>; Prashant awale
<[email protected]>; Dr. Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>; Dinesh Valke
<[email protected]>; Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>;
chrischadwell261@btinternet. com; D.S Rawat <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2016, 12:38
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:126083] VoF Week: Primulaceae - Androsace
mucronifolia Watt
Forwarding again for Id assistance please.Some earlier relevant feedback:
| I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather than a
Primula.
I can say with confidence that it is not Androsace mucronifolia - in fact the
plant from VOF is not remotely similar to A.mucronifolia. This species is
onlyrecorded from Aghanistan to Kashmir, so would not be expected in VOF anyhow.
The image does seem to match the posting named as Androsace garhwalica (Primula
garhwalica). I am not familiar with this species. Clearly it has been named
by Indian botanists. Could someone tell me the publication this species was
described in and how it is distinguished from related species? --
>From Chris Chadwell ji. |
| See more discussions in another thread at VOF Week: : Androsace
mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib |
| |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dr Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>
Date: 25 August 2012 at 18:56
Subject: [efloraofindia:126083] VoF Week: Primulaceae - Androsace mucronifolia
Watt
To: [email protected]
Androsace mucronifolia Watt in J. Linn. Soc. 18:381. t. xiv B. 1882.
Family: PrimulaceaeDistribution: E. Afghanistan, N.W. Himalaya, W. Tibet, W.
ChinaCurrent pic taken on way to Hem Kunt Sahib.
--
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With regards,
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Awards 2014 for efloraofindia.
For identification,learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please
visit/ joinour EfloraofindiaGoogle e-group (largestin the world- around 2700
members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) orEfloraofindia website (with a species
database of more than11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my
Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of
Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can
also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each
image.Also author of 'APhotoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of
India'. --
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