Forwarding again for ID Distributed as Neolamarckia cadamba ? <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/r/rubiaceae/neolamarckia/neolamarckia-cadamba-1> Group discussion at Large Leaf tree Sapling Is it Tectona Grandis? UD 8212011 002 (google.com) <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/Z0iMJOtguWQ/m/lII8fEPCctsJ>
On Sunday, November 13, 2011 at 6:24:27 PM UTC+5:30 Ushadi wrote: > Dear Mr. Garg and All: > > I am not convinced its THE KADAMBA tree with a normal Genetic code..... > I personally think it may have be a genetic malformation of it.. > > UPDATE... about month after these pictures were taken... the leaves became > brown, withered and drooped down, didn't have a camera so no pics ... and > next day when I went back to take pictures the KMC folks had cut down the > tree so no pics... I have meant to update this thread... > > I wish I had stopped and taken samples from the stem to preserve for > genetic analysis.... but I was too much of a rush and had no camera with > me... and next day I was so much shocked that I did not go near the > stump... I should have and taken a piece then... but I learned a > lesson... In future I will act better than be a silent spectator and > grieve at the death of a promising life form... > > GOING BACK TO KADAMBA trees... see my detailed pictures above... > > This sapling had two feet long and almost 18 inches wide leaf... never > seen something like that...in a kadamba... > > Although the leaf size seems to be quite variable... in Kadamba trees in > Kolkata... > > I find that that the ones with flowers have the smallest leaves (5-6 ") > of all Kadambas I see on streets of Kolkata, the flowerless "kadamba" trees > have somewhat larger ( up to 9" ) darker leaves... > different species???? > > === > > If this sapling was a kadamba... spontaneous dying off was perhaps akin > to a deformed human (or any mammalian) foetus aborting itself due to > genetic malformations or genetic chemical variability so much so that the > survival of the newborn life would be unsustainable... since mother > nature repeats pattenrs and processes ... its the only explanation I can > think of that makes sense to me... > > other reason could be environmental.. that the pavement where it was > growing could not have sustained it... > > > GARG JI : If its filed under kadamba in our website... it should have a > note that it was most likely a genetic malformation and similar sapling(s) > when discovered would need genetic studies... > Thanks ... > Usha di > > *PS I dont doubt Neil and HS's diagnosis , but am bothered by the > uniqueness of its leaf size.. and I thank you both for your help...* > > if it was not planted as the locals claimed that it was spontaneous > sprouting... then the seeds from the mother tree where it flew out from > must have also sprouted in the neighborhood... I have crisscrossed the > street and gone to every park .. and green grass patch in about a 8 - 10 > block area.. have not seen a single kadamba sapling, let alone a one with > such large leaves... > ===== > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:36 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: > >> *yes, Neolamarckia cadamba* >> >> >> *regards,* >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:19 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please. >>> >>> Some earlier relevant feedback: >>> >>> “Negative. This is >>> *Kadam [Neolamarckia cadamba]. * Regards, >>> Neil Soares.” >>> >>> >>> >>> “Dear Neil, with such large leaves... >>> >>> there is a kadam tree here, leaves are about 6,7,or 8 inches long at the >>> most... >>> but this one has 30 inches long leaves??? >>> >>> Usha di >>> ====” >>> >>> " Have encountered such variations. Please go and check the tree again. >>> Regards, >>> Neil Soares." >>> >>> "Dear Neil: I have a great deal of respect for your diagnostic >>> abilities... >>> and I had indeed doubts about my suspected idea... because of the leaf >>> shape, color and NO redness when rubbed...... >>> BUT .... the size of the leaves throws me..still.. >>> AND I took the pictures on 15th August... nothing would have changed in >>> these 6 says... >>> But yes I will go back in a months time and take more pictures... and >>> I'll repeat it till is fully grown...over the years... would be a nice >>> project... >>> This may be an interesting fact ...in the life history of Kadam... may >>> be saplings' first leaves are humongous to manufacture as much food as >>> quickly as possible and grow fast.... till its higher // closer to the >>> sun... this sapling apprantly grew sooo tall in the span of three >>> months... >>> May be we need a section of "Pediatric Biology " in Botany... growth >>> patterns and anatomy of saplings... which may be very different than the >>> mature tree.... ha ha .. >>> Usha di >>> ===" >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: ushadi Micromini <[email protected]> >>> Date: 21 August 2011 21:21 >>> Subject: [efloraofindia:77843] Large Leaf tree Sapling Is it Tectona >>> Grandis? UD 8212011 002 >>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> Dear All: >>> >>> On 14th August zipping by on this street on the way to post office I >>> noticed these humongous leaves... >>> thought it might be Tectona Grandis.... >>> Next day went back and took pictures and talked to the local folks who >>> run tea stalls and some Bhujia shops on the sidewalk (only they were >>> around to talk to ) , one of the guys said it grew very fast... this height >>> see figure 1, was achieved in just 3 months.... some branches had come out >>> near the ground which he said he cut them off... some others said it was >>> a kadam gachh (gachh = tree in bengali) ... >>> sure!!! dont beleive it!!! >>> >>> >>> The leaves are very large... 1.5 feet wide by 2.5 feet long... I >>> measured it... see figures 2 and 3... to me the leaf shape just does not >>> match what I remember as tectona grandis.... am confused... >>> >>> I rubbed the leaf underside, even wetted it with saliva..and rubbed ... >>> no red color developed... see figure 6, the white arrows surround the >>> wetted rubbed surface, you can still see a little shine?... of cource its >>> the lower leaf ... not the uppermost "young leaf"... but in the past no >>> matter which leaf I tested on already identified Teconia grandis, I got the >>> red color, in Bengal, Gujarat, Bihar and even in USA.. at a botanical >>> Garden ... >>> >>> Currently there are no branches... >>> >>> The tree came up on its own.. in harsh broken stony fragments containing >>> soil... see figure..7. >>> >>> Date/Time- 8/15/2011 >>> >>> Location- Place, Altitude, GPS- Sea level or slightly below it, Ganges >>> plain , Streets of Kolkata,. >>> >>> Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type- came up on its own per local history >>> >>> Plant Habit- Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Tree >>> >>> Height/Length- Sapling about 10 feet or 11 feet >>> >>> Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- very large, 2.5 by 1.5 foot ( foot, not >>> inches) >>> >>> Inflorescence Type/ Size- NONE yet >>> >>> Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts- NA >>> >>> Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds-NA >>> >>> Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.- NA >>> >>> NA= not applicable >>> >>> >>> Please help..... >>> >>> Thank you >>> >>> Usha di >>> >>> === >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg ([email protected]) >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1 >>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>> The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a *thousand species* >>> & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged >>> alphabetically & place-wise): >>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use >>> them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: >>> http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1740 members >>> & 90,000 messages on 31/10/11) or Efloraofindia website: >>> https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database >>> of more than 6000 species). >>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>> India'. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> - H.S. >> >> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart >> of stone >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/48124253-1383-45eb-ba09-65bc55290be4n%40googlegroups.com.
