On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> These days, domain names are worth money (much like real-estate),
> and may even be worth more in the future (but who knows, maybe this
> whole crappy will be dumped in the future). Anyway, I understand why
> Mr. Ben-Avraham would not want to "give" the *ownership* of the
> domain name to you, Maddog, or anybody else.
makes sense to a limit. Mr. Ben-Avraham does not own the Linux
trademark, however if IGLU is not an official legal body, we can't
expect to gain proxy rights from Linus Torvalds for the domain either.
HOWEVER, I would expect a BASIC amount of decency from Jonathan to let
us control the zone, which he won't. after delaying our request to move
the IP to the new server, I invoked my rights as the zone contact of the
domain (which I am since it was first ordered) and moved the NS records
to point at IGLU's server, but he reversed it hence:
- I have no control over the zone.
- I have no cooperatoin on the whois registry status at ISOC.
either one would suffice, but JBA is preventing both from us, and THAT
is what I resent.
> whatever you want to call it). As the real owner, Ben-Avraham would be able
> to revoke Ira's proxy privilages if he wishes.
which he did.
> If that suggestion doesn't work, then the second best thing is for Ben-Avraham
> to let Ira's IP (or whomever) act as the nameserver for the linux.org.il.
which he also refuses.
now you understand my frustrations and the source of my fears.
> If Ben-Avraham doesn't go for any of these solutions, and doesn't
> present alternative plans (i.e., he's obviously allowed to open his
> own "linux.org.il" site with free Linux content, not an ad to his
> company), then it is perhaps possible for Linus to sue him. But
> don't bet on it - it sounds like a difficult battle (and IANAL) and
> I don't see anybody going ahead with it.
sadly enough, there are too many indications this is what he is counting
on, by avoiding all my direct questions in the matter. that's why I am
forced to make this a public issue.
> Ira, please be aware that such promises are *NEVER* enough.
> Sometimes people get f***ed over even by their closest friends or
> family. You'll have to *assure* Ben-Avraham that you won't abuse it,
> for example by keeping him as the domain owner, and you'll only be
> the technical contact (which is obviously allowed to make changes to
> the registration).
I am, and he reverses them immediately. I therefore sugested li.org,
seeing tat they may be an authority we could trust, and save a few
hundred dollars none of us have to spare on building an amuta, writing a
charter, hiring a lawyer and accountant, and all so we can freakin'
change a zone file for a domain he ORIGINALLY BOUGHT FOR THE GROUP
ANYWAY.
any way I look at it it doesn't make sense, and if he can't reason we
either lose the domain one day, or both sides spend considerable amounts
of money on a legal battle. I don't see the latter happening, and the
third option is going to the media, which is not a light step to take,
ubt JBA has a lot more to lose than us. I don't want to go there,
althrough I do think we are in the right here. afterall this entire
annoying discussion is about where the NS records point, I could not
care LESS what names are in the whois.
> Ira, again, you must understand him too: An Aumuta is not just a
> beaurocracy: it is also a legal framework (with a board, overseeer,
yes, but an expensive one!
> etc.) to make sure that no single person attempts to take over the
> Amuta's assets (in this case, the domain name). Without such an
> Amuta he can never be sure that if he gives you full ownership of
> the domain name you won't abuse it sometime in the future.
he's abusing it some time in the present. so far 1:0 for our side.
> Do we have any lawyer, CPA, or something like that in our group? Creating
> an Amuta is *not* impossible, and many small organizations do it. Why
> are we not at least trying to do that? (Again, only if we have someone who
> knows how to go about doing this. I wouldn't even know where to begin).
and who will head it and who pays the CPA and lawyer? nobody puts in
money for anything here, and nobody leads this group for more than 6
months in a row before burning out.
> > dinner, but also to discuss and consult/play judge on our domain issue
> > here.
>
> First, make sure that Ben-Avraham accepts him as an arbitrator...
first, try to get ANY useful reaction from him.
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