Dear Stewart, I wouldn't recognise 6th-comma meantone if I fell over it! Sorry to hear about the problem with the frets on your cittern. It's a shame to waste that rose! Maybe you could reposition the dodgy ones with wedges in wider slots like the old fretboards?
For the benefit of others who may be interested, I found the fret positions on my RWC kit very functional, and despite my 6th-comma challenge I have quite a sharp ear for tuning. My kit was built after Chris Goodwin's very helpful article in "Lute News" was published, and I understand that RWC made some modifications to the kit design in response to it. My rose, is not alas, swish, but it doesn't look too bad! It's one of the hardest parts of the kit and the explanation of rose cutting in the instructions is not as thorough as it might be for a beginner. But as a non-woodworker I found the kit quite buildable and I do enjoy playing the finished instrument. The main problem, of course, is what to play on it, as the kit instruments are larger than the English cittern that Robinson & Holborne wrote for. I am hoping someday to get microfilms of the Leroy & Phalese books, but until then I am mainly making my own transcriptions of pieces from other sources. Best wishes, Denys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:46 PM Subject: Sorry, help me....what to buy???? > Dear Tim, > > I once made a cittern from a kit. I constructed it in a friend's > workshop. He kept an eye on what I did. It looks good. The rose is > pretty swish. Unfortunately the grooves for the frets were already > made, and they aren't at 6th-comma meantone. My instrument plays out > of tune. I rarely touch it, in spite of its swish rose. > > Best wishes, > > Stewart McCoy. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Timothy Motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "lute net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: Sorry, help me....what to buy???? > > > > Denys, > > I would agree that a stage somewhere in between a box full of > parts and > > a completed lute would be a nice option. I found that researching > and > > gathering materials almost took more time than the actual > construction. > > > > I take it that you are happy with the cittern kit? I find that > I'm > > getting very curious about them. I suppose I should learn the > basics > > with a lute before I go wandering off with other instruments. > > > > Tim > > > > On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 06:13 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: > > > > > Dear Jon & Tim, > > > I too would be daunted at the prospect of trying to build > > > a lute back, but I have built the RWC cittern and found > > > the pre-shaping of parts and general content of the kit > > > much easier than trying to gather together the necessary > > > materials myself. I understand that they will build any > > > parts for you that you want, so you can order a lute kit > > > with a completed back (at extra cost). It might be an option > > > worth considering. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Denys > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:56 PM > > > Subject: RE: Sorry, help me....what to buy???? > > > > > > > > >>> Jon, > > >> If the pictures on the RWC website are an indication of what > you get > > >> in the kit, you are not much better off than doing it from > scratch on > > >> your own. It looks like the ribs are not bent nor have their > edges > > >> been planed to the right bevel to join properly. Shaping the > neck > > >> takes about 30 minutes with a hand plane; it's much easier than > doing > > >> a guitar neck. The only tough part (unless you had a workshop > and > > >> some luthier's tools) is the peg head and pegs. I've bought a > batch > > >> of rosewood pegs from a supplier in India, and I would be > willing to > > >> sell you at cost enough for a 6 course lute. You can easily > build a > > >> jig to glue together the peg head, and if you have a steady > hand, you > > >> can drill the pilot holes for the pegs without a drill press. > Then, > > >> all you would need is a tapered reamer for the peg holes. > > >> > > >> For the bowl, I buy black ash sanded to the right thickness > from > > >> Itasca Wood Products in Minnesota. It's not birdseye maple, > but it's > > >> good enough for a student lute. I have a website with pictures > of my > > >> design for a form that is easy to build. > > >>> > > >>> I think I've figured the total materials cost for my lute at > about > > >> $150. > > >> > > >> Tim > > >> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: Jon Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:07 PM > > >>>> To: Michael; Herbert Ward > > >>>> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>>> Subject: Re: Sorry, help me....what to buy???? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Herbert and Ben (and any others), > > >>>> > > >>>> By now you all know I have a flat-back from Musikits, and am > not > > >>> challenged > > >>>> as to woodworking. I am thinking of getting the 8 course kit > from > > >>> RWC > > >>>> (England, but moving to Toledo, Spain) at about $800 US. I > would be > > >>>> comfortable working from scratch if it weren't for making the > mold > > >>> and > > >>>> setting the strips to make the body (I have Lundgren's book - > but I > > >>> think I > > >>>> have to see it first). > > >>>> > > >>>> So my question on the Paki lutes is this. How is the body > quality? I > > >>> can > > >>>> redo the soundboard (assuming they use a heat sensitive hide > glue, > > >>> or > > >>>> similar). I can make my own neck and fingerboard and peg > block (and > > >>> pegs) - > > >>>> and if need be a new soundboard and bridge. > > >>>> > > >>>> So, like Michael, I am looking for my next lute (although I > envy him > > >>> his > > >>>> Larry Brown, microscopic crack and all). > > >>>> > > >>>> While we are on the topic, Michael asked about a cheap lute > he could > > >>> bang > > >>>> on. All of you know by now about my Jerry Brown flat-back. > But now I > > >>> know > > >>>> more about it. Jerry is an excellent maker of harps and harp > kits, > > >>> and a > > >>>> fine guitarist (and also those instruments). But he didn't do > enough > > >>>> research into the lute before designing his flat-back lute. > (Yes, > > >>> RT, as > > >>>> original it wasn't a true lute - even in play). The neck is > too long > > >>> for a G > > >>>> tuning (I use fishing line for the chanterelle). But the > string > > >>> spacing and > > >>>> sound are quite acceptible for learning (Ronn MacFarlane > played mine > > >>> for ten > > >>>> minutes and enjoyed it). But it took me two months (with the > help of > > >>> people > > >>>> on this list) to properly tune the fret heights and nut and > bridge > > >>> heights > > >>>> to get the typical lute action. > > >>>> > > >>>> I spent some time with Jerry this past weekend at the > Somerset Harp > > >>> Festival > > >>>> on the redesign of his flat-back, but until he does redesign > it I > > >>> recommend > > >>>> against it. He charges US$795 for the finished instrument, > and > > >>> US$350 for > > >>>> the kit. The finished instrument from the factory isn't a > lute, but > > >>> a good > > >>>> man with wood can make the kit into one. At $800 it would be > a good > > >>> student > > >>>> lute, if it were a lute. Mine is, but only because of my > > >>> modifications. If > > >>>> he follows up on the modifications then it will be a good > > >>> alternative to the > > >>>> real thing for beginners. > > >>>> > > >>>> So to come back the full circle. Are the Paki lutes "of sound > body" > > >>> (pun > > >>>> intended)? Or does anyone on the list have a broken lute with > a good > > >>> body? I > > >>>> am enjoying this instrument so much that I want to go > further. > > >>>> > > >>>> Best, Jon > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ********************PRIVATE AND > CONFIDENTIAL******************** > > >>>> This electronic message transmission and any files > transmitted with > > >>> it, are > > >>>> a communication from the law firm of Shughart Thomson & > Kilroy, P.C. > > >>> This > > >>>> message contains information protected by the attorney/client > > >>> privilege and > > >>>> is confidential or otherwise the exclusive property of the > intended > > >>>> recipient or Shughart Thomson & Kilroy. This information is > solely > > >>> for the > > >>>> use of the individual or entity that is the intended > recipient. If > > >>> you are > > >>>> not the designated recipient, or the person responsible for > > >>> delivering the > > >>>> communication to its intended recipient, please be aware that > any > > >>>> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication > is > > >>> strictly > > >>>> prohibited. If you have received this electronic > transmission in > > >>> error, > > >>>> please notify by telephone (816-395-0695), collect or by > electronic > > >>> mail > > >>>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) and promptly destroy the original > > >>> transmission. > > >>>> Thank you for your assistance. > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
