Well, not only in keyboard continuo there shouldn't be no limits; also
plucked continuo is free - the only "limit" is that when it is good
(subjective!) it serves the the soloist/ensemble/orchestra/... And also
"serving" is subjective. Of course usually mastering the style and
conventions of the period help achieving the goal... But being only
"pedant" doesn't guarantee art...
All the best,
Arto
On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:27:03 -0400, "Roman Turovsky"
<r.turov...@verizon.net> wrote:
> There seems to be no "generally acceptable limits for keyboard continuo
> practice" included in the curriculum of the Bologna conservatory, as
> evidenced by its graduates.
> RT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Christopher Wilke" <chriswi...@yahoo.com>; "Roman Turovsky"
> <r.turov...@verizon.net>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
>
>
>
> Well by generally accepted I mean by the generality (ie for the most
part)
> of keyboard players not necessarily all of them - and to be fair I did
put
> in the rider that all was not perfect even in the harpsichord continuo
> world...........
>
> MH
>
> --- On Fri, 1/4/11, Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
> To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Christopher Wilke"
> <chriswi...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Friday, 1 April, 2011, 15:02
>
>
> If you ever see, say, Guido Morini doing live continuo you'd realize that
> there are no generally acceptable limits for
> keyboard continuo practice.
> RT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Christopher Wilke" <chriswi...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:55 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
>
>
>>
>>
>> Interesting thoughts Chris - but I don't think people would say 'great
>> continuo playing' if one busked in the style of, say, Scott Joplin in,
>> say, a Bach Mass setting. In fact, the evidence is not as scant as you
>> suggest and in practice there are generally acceptable limits for
>> keyboard continuo practice (often based on what we know of historical
>> practice). As far as I understand from the discussion, the problem is
>> that the 'Foscarini Experience' performance is so far away from what
>> any audience might have heard ('experienced') at the time as to be a
>> parody, or rather a travesty, of what the composer may have had in
>> mind.
>>
>> Of course all is not perfect even in the keyboard continuo world and
>> some harpsichord players seem to find it hard to resist things like
>> heavy regular arpeggiation in, say, a Vivaldi slow movement - a sort of
>> grafted on harpsichord concerto but it's still much better than with
>> the lute/theorbo where electronic amplification of the individual
>> instrument can often be the norm thus allowing a sort of fancy lute
>> song style accompaniment which in practice would be inaudible without
>> the amplification.
>>
>> This sort of 'experience' by FE is surely an admission of artistic
>> defeat rather than a triumph of individualism - by pandering to current
>> popular music fashions (much simple rhythmic movement and a lot of
>> thrashing about) it seems as though the ensemble is trying to generate
>> sales by satisfying the lowest common denominator - nothing
>> intrinsically wrong with this of course, but hackles must rise when
>> it's promoted as being close to what was heard at the time....
>>
>> MH
>> --- On Fri, 1/4/11, Christopher Wilke <chriswi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Christopher Wilke <chriswi...@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience again
>> To: "Stuart Walsh" <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>, "Monica Hall"
>> <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
>> Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Date: Friday, 1 April, 2011, 13:58
>>
>> --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think really these people really make any attempt
>> > to play the music in a "historically informed way"..or have
>> > any relevant knowledge at all.
>> >
>> > Everyone is just fooled by their virtuosity.
>> >
>> > Cynically
>> >
>> > Monica
>> >
>> I think we have to make a distinction between the scholarly side of
>> things and the artistic aspect. "Historically informed" is not a very
>> helpful critical term. Deciding who is "historically informed-er"
>> tells us little about the artistic worth of the performance. I don't
>> think it is necessarily invalid for a performer, in light of scant
>> historical evidence, to bring in aspects of performance done is accord
>> with modern principles (i.e. improvisation) as a substitute for
>> essential subjects treated only ambiguously in the texts. After all,
>> if you're one of the well-respected harpsichord players in any number
>> of baroque ensembles, they call this sort of thing "great continuo
>> playing."
>> Chris
>> Christopher Wilke
>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>> www.christopherwilke.com
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Walsh"
>> <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
>> > Cc: "Lutelist" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:06 AM
>> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience again
>> >
>> >
>> > > On 31/03/2011 22:08, Stuart Walsh wrote:
>> > >> On 31/03/2011 19:53, Monica Hall wrote:
>> > >>> I came across this
>> > CD by the group Foscarini Experience with the title
>> > >>> "Bon voyage" some time
>> > ago.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> I looked around to see if I could hear some of the
>> > tracks as samples. Couldn't find anything but I did find an
>> > album by 'Private Musicke' (who played at Edinburgh last
>> > year with an opera singer) and there are some samples from
>> > this album, Echo de Paris:
>> > >>
>> > >> [4]http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
>> > >>
>> > >> It's interesting that the one solo of Corbetta's
>> > and the several of Bartolotti are played actually as solos -
>> > very fluently (but perhaps, at the gushing rather than the
>> > pinched, end of the spectrum) whereas Foscarini (and
>> > Briceno) get a complete makeover. Actually playing through
>> > Foscarini you struggle to find anything musically coherent
>> > at all - but on this album, his (ahem) music bursts
>> > forth as colourful, radiant and beguilingly tuneful.
>> > >
>> > > (i.e. this is all rather curious...where did all these
>> > arrangements come from - and arrangements of what in the
>> > first place?)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Stuart
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> In the liner notes it
>> > mentions an
>> > >>> illustration which
>> > features Foscarini on a wagon playing the lute
>> > >>> together with a girl
>> > with a triangle and a violone player which
>> > >>> apparently dates from
>> > 1615 and is part of an illustration of a feast
>> > >>> held for the
>> > Archduchess Isabella Clara Eugenia, the wife of the
>> > >>> Archduke Albert.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Does anyone know
>> > anything about this illustration and whether the
>> > >>> lutenist is clearly
>> > identified as Foscarini. I have done a bit of
>> > >>> surfing the net but
>> > haven't found any trace of it.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Monica
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list
>> > information at
>> > >>> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
>> 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
>> 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> 4. http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
>> 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
