Craig
You seem to "resent" the fact that other people bid higher than you. What is
the difference how close to the ending time I "sneak" in a bid and beat you.
Why didn't you bid much higher to begin with? I have no clue as to how my last
second "sneak" bid will fare when the auction ends. I place my bid as soon as
I see the poster and that could mean the same night Bruce posts them. At that
point I forget about it. If I win it is because I made a higher bid than you
and not because I am a sneak.You must face the reality of bidding. It does not
matter when a bid is made. The HIGHEST bidder wins.
Claude Litton
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Craig Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I didn't bring up the concept of "fair". The original poster talked about how
only timed auctions were fair. If you've got a beef with the general
concept of applying "fair" to this discussion", take it up with them.
I assume -- and since Bruce said the only major change from eBay is how
the auctions end, I think this is correct -- you still post a maximum amount.
So you don't have to be there at the end. If you post your maximum, and
it's more than the other person/people's, then you get it. As with eBay, the
computer bids for you up to the amount it needs to for you to win (or to tap
out if the other bidders have higher bids). But you also have the option of
being on line, seeing how the bidding is going, and bidding higher, if you
choose to.
That seems fair to me.
Sniping, on the other hand -- no matter how many people use it and like the
fact that it allows them to win -- seems inherently unfair, because its whole
design and intent is to sneak in bids in the last micro-seconds, to prevent
anyone else from getting in.
Everyone has different opinions. This is mine.
Craig.
At 01:28 PM 2/25/2008, Patrick Michael Tupy wrote:
Jeez, as for 'fair' or 'unfair' an argument could be made for both. First,
define Fair. Bruce will have unfixed endings because he feels it is fair,
given his needs and it will benefit his bottom line. Who can blame him? This
is a business and that is certainly fair. In fact, it's likely that Bruce
will work out any 'kinks' so that those participating will feel that it is a
fair auction in the long run.
Still, the task is not simple. For in an 'in person' "Live" non fixed ending
auction you don't bid your maximimum amount up front, you are there to 'feel'
the room, etc. not to mention see the item in person that you are bidding on.
And in person "Live" auctions are not unending but end when someone IN THE ROOM
reaches the highest bid for that item. The problem with an online 'auction' is
that unless it is "Live" not everyone who is bidding or has bid is in the room
at the same time. Not everyone has the same chance to bid their highest amount
by using strategy which is what one does when sniping in an effort to 'win' an
auction that you may or cannot be present for. I must add here there Sue Heim
says it best when you tell her that you 'won' an auction on Ebay. To quote
Sue..."Oh, great, congratulations, you won, does that mean you don't have to
pay for it?" HA!
But to say that it's completely fair to continue an auction unending really
means that whoever is present online when Bruce has finally had enough and says
"going, going, gone" thinks it's VERY fair and the others either won't know
when this moving ending line is about to end or will not be allowed to use the
strategy inherent in bidding for items in person. It's as if what's being
created is an online 'in person' auction where many of the bidders might need
to run to the metaphoric bathroom (or to bed, perchance to dream of a poster
they just lost, or work, or T-Ball games, school plays, etc.) when the auction
they are bidding on finally ends. In other words, they won't be able to always
be there to bid the item up, which means their only option is that they will be
forced to bid their highest amount before leaving the computer. The online
Ebay 'fixed-ending' auction does provide for a level playing field inasmuch as
everyone knows or can strategize using the rules inhere
nt to
the game; either bid early and often or learn how to snipe or find a service to
do it for you. What does it matter if you bid the most you want to spend with
3 seconds left or 3 days left? It matters a lot if it's online and NOT "Live."
A service can make time 'relative' and I just see the confusion of a possibly
never-ending auction where the 'finish line' keeps moving as maddening. I
mean how is it considered fair if that item you coveted finally ends at 9am in
NYC but 5 am in Hawaii or elsewhere around the globe...then you have the
audacity to say 'well, I guess you just didn't want it enough?!' That's
ridiculous.
Maybe I'm not understanding the whole pluses and minuses of this idea, maybe
Bruce is planning "Live" auctions which renders all the ideas within this note
moot, but the benefit of the Ebay or any fixed ending auction is specific to it
being 'online' and not "Live." Fixed ending, online NOT "Live" auctions give
the bidder some modicum of control over when and how they will strategically
bid, especially when considering bidding on several items from several Sellers,
not to mention estimating how and where to budget for those bids when more than
one item is desired from those in Bruce's auctions while simultaneously bidding
on other items from other Sellers.
Now if only Bruce could figure out how I can 'win' an auction, then NOT have to
pay for it (and still get the item and live happily every after...). Of
course, with all his book giveaways he's the closest I've ever come to it!
Patrick Tupy
On Feb 25, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Craig Miller wrote:
I'm certain you're honest and believe what you say, but auctions that
continue until people stop bidding are "unfair"? Really? All the millions of
auctions have occurred over time in places that aren't eBay have been
unfair, because people could bid until they were through? It's only those
auctions where there's an arbitrary ending time that are fair? Especially
when some of the bidders have access to external bidding software; that
makes them really, really fair.
Craig.
At 01:36 AM 2/25/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My Two penneth
Bruce I can understand your feelings about fixed end as opposed to extended end
auctions, however fixed end I think is the fairest way.
If you are at a live auction the hammer drops no more bidding on that item,
same should happen on an internet auction, if you have the standard ebay seven
days then instead open it up to ten days but the end is the end.
Otherwise how long will an auction go on for.
If a bidder loses out then so be it, he didn't bid enough. We all have had
regrest when bidding "oh I'd have paid an extra $5 or $10" but what if your
opponent had bid an extra $100 or $200 would you go that far? Maybe and mybe
not. I am sure we have all learned our lessons and had our fingers burned with
getting into auction fever, If that is what you wish to encourage Bruce, but my
personal opinion is that it is not a fair way to operate.
With open ended auctions you could be accused of greed, with such a business
operation that you have Bruce, you don't need to be tarred with such a brush as
your turnover is exemplarary.
The only other point I would make, if you are dispensing with ebay then you are
in the position to makes some savings which you can pass on to your customers
both sides. This will encourage punters to bid that little extra more.
Apart from that I wish you well with starting your own auction site I am sure
it will be a success with all the past reputation you have from ebay.
Best of luck.
Adrian
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