2009/4/15 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com> > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria > <davito...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> 2009/4/14 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com> >> >> The only point I see that's unclear here is the "really translations" >>> bit. Does that mean the lyrics have to be literal translations, without any >>> flexability for the translator changing wordings to allow for them to make >>> sense in translation, rather than literal translation? >>> >>> Just an example: Seasons in the Sun (Terry Jacks) (translated lyrics) vs >>> "Le Moribond" (Jacques Brel) (original) - a rough translation here: >>> >>> Original: >>> >>> On a chanté les mêmes vins >>> On a chanté les mêmes filles >>> On a chanté les mêmes chagrins >>> Adieu l'Émile je vais mourir >>> C'est dur de mourir au printemps tu sais >>> Mais je pars aux fleurs la paix dans l'âme >>> Car vu que tu es bon comme du pain blanc >>> Je sais que tu prendras soin de ma femme >>> Je veux qu'on rie >>> Je veux qu'on danse >>> Je veux qu'on s'amuse comme des fous >>> Je veux qu'on rie >>> Je veux qu'on danse >>> Quand c'est qu'on me mettra dans le trou >>> >>> Literal (incomplete) translation: >>> >>> Adieu l'Émile je t'aime bien >>> Adieu l'Émile je t'aime bien tu sais >>> We sang the same wines >>> We sang the same girls >>> We sang the same sorrows >>> Adieu l'Émile je vais mourir >>> It's hard to die in the spring you know >>> But I go to the flowers of peace in the soul >>> Car vu que tu es bon comme du pain white >>> I know you take care of my wife >>> I want rie >>> I want people to dance >>> I want fun like crazy >>> I want rie >>> I want people to dance >>> Whenever you put me in the hole >>> >>> Seasons in the Sun translation: >>> >>> Goodbye to you my trusted friend >>> We've known each other since we were nine or ten >>> Together we've climbed hills and trees >>> Learned of love and A B C's >>> Skinned our hearts and skinned our knees. >>> Goodbye my friend it's hard to die >>> When all the birds are singing in the sky >>> Now that the spring is in the air >>> Pretty girls are everywhere >>> Think of me and I'll be there >>> >>> Very different lyrics, but the one credits the other as the original >>> lyrics, pre-translation. So the question is, where is the line between this >>> translation AR being allowed, and it being a "translation adaptation" AR and >>> this AR not being correct? >>> >> >> I don't see this as a problem. The proposal states "The meaning of >> 'significantly' must be left to the appreciation of the editor and voters." >> So if you don't want to see this... adaptation entered as a translation, >> just vote no, as the proposal suggests. Or vote yes if you think it is. > > > Well, here's why I do think it a problem: This AR seems specifically built > for linking cases like Seasons in the Sun and Le Moribond. However, given > the current wording in this proposal, I would not create that AR, and would > have to vote no to any edit adding it, as the lyrics are quite significantly > altered. > > Hence I see this becoming an AR that always leads to needless long debates > in edit notes, and isn't used anywhere near as often as it could be > (usefully). Why is the "significantly altered" language needed? If > something is described by the artist (or whomever) as a cover of something > else, why should we then attempting to draw lines in the sand as to what > level of "coverness" is present in the lyrics? >
To distinguish translations/adaptations from cases where only the music was kept and the lyrics from the new version were written without any relation to the original lyrics. -- Frederic Da Vitoria (davitof) Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org
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