Re: [Ogf-l] Re: Just for the fun of it...

[Justin Bacon]

Ol' Ben wrote:

First, "unnecessary complexity and bookkeeping" is subjective to opinion and
personal organization skills.

Actually this is a completely objective assessment.

1. Does the VP/WP system add complexity? Of course. The VP/WP requires more rules. This, by definition, is added complexity.

2. Does the VP/WP system add bookkeeping? Of course. The VP/WP add an extra pool of points which must be tracked. This, by definition, is added bookkeeping.

3. Is this added complexity and bookkeeping necessary? No. We've seen systems achieve comparable (and even identical) results with less bookkeeping and complexity.

This isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact.

If you prefer the unnecessary bookkeeping and complexity to other options currently available on the market, that's your opinion.

Second, saying "Falling Damage applies to Wounds" isn't the "whole layer" of
rules that you imply. It's cut, dry, and functions without any slow-down.
It also fits the "single rule" criteria that you promote.

I never said it wasn't cut and dry. It is, however, a new rule which must be remembered and implemented. You have added a whole new category of rules to the game: Rules which determine whether physical damage is applied to WP or VP.

Again, this isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact.

Third, W&V eliminate HP's greatest weakness: You take tons of "abstract"
damage and then fall down bleeding to death.

As opposed to taking a bunch of abstract damage, then taking some more abstract damage with a different label, and then falling down and bleeding to death?

Fourth, my Players are no longer feel forced to play a Cleric, and I'm
thereby free to actually make a game system free of them (which I have).

The mechanics which speed up healing are almost wholly tangential to the WP/VP system.

All I feel you've done is confirm that W&V are superior to HP *in every way*

If you like unnecessary complexity and bookkeeping, then the WP/VP system is -- idneed -- superior to HP in "every way" (assuming that complexity and bookkeeping are the only "ways" in your book).

Fortunately, derived games are not held to the standards of D&D,
and with W&V and other such systems, breaking away from D&D's *limitations*
can be a good thing.

I would strongly suggest that you attempt to read messages for *comprehension* before hitting the Reply button. You'll notice that I've strongly endorsed revisions to the HP system for modeling different genres and accomplishing different goals.

I just don't like unnecessary bookkeeping and complexity. The WP/VP system is, by definition, an inelegant solution (and, in fact, doesn't solve most of the problems it supposedly sets out to solve).

You, OTOH, appear to prefer unnecessary bookkeeping and complexity. More power to you.

Justin Bacon
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