Hi Norbert, I have two remarks to your many valuable input.
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Norbert Hartl <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Nico, > > > I do have one question: what was your experience with Amber? > > > > as an overall statement I would say it was a pleasure to use amber to > develop the app. The initial setup until the class browser opens is easy. > Learning how to create packages and knowing that code persistence is based > on packages is also quite ok because amber includes a WebDav Server that > can be started from the downloaded amber repo. So no big problems in > starting. > > Thinks that go less smooth: > > - the web app I'm developing is checked into git. Amber puts all files (js > and st) in the same directory. This makes managing files in version control > system a bit cumbersome. > - all code is put in the same directory. The amber code checked out from > the repository is in the same place as the code that I produced myself. > Again you need to do additional steps to do to clean it up > - tools for combining code are missing. That is not a big problem because > a simple cat on the console can solve this but would be nice not have to. > The Amber commandline compiler can do that partially. Maybe we can figure out together what is still missing to get it working as expected. > - I prepared two different locations on my web server for the same app. > One that is used to develop (the WebDav server access it) and one where > only the combined javascript source code is used. This is needed to test > the target deployment. Something that could ease this would be wonderful > > What keeps me from using it in every project: > > - The startup times for amber can be quite huge. All the class > initialization is a lot of stuff that burns CPU cycle. On an iphone you > don't notice really but on the Nexus 7 tablet it takes 2-4 seconds for > initialization and the first page to appear. This is a not a problem for > desktop browsers but for mobile ones where I find amber extremely good for. > I only used amber in pre pre 1.0 versions and I know there have been > optimizations that I didn't test, yet. > > And the annoying "You didn't ask for but I add it anyway wishlist": > > - I need to test Helios because I think it solves a lot of issues with the > current browser. I don't know how it is supposed to work that you have a > second window with the IDE that accesses a page. But I'm sure it works > flawlessly or I misunderstood it from the screenshots > - retarget files on the disc. I would like to have different paths on disc > for separate packages. > - amber using websockets to connect to a backend pharo server. This can be > used for comfortable code management, amber support for state transport > client->server and server->client and to replicate console log to the pharo > transcript (or whatever). This is important on mobile devices where > sometimes you cannot access the browser console. > - it would be fine to have support for obfuscation. It is not only for > hiding code but also for making it smaller thus saving bandwidth and > startup times. This could be the case if the produced javascript code would > be work with google closure compiler. Even better would be to have visitor > for AST/IR to make it even more effective/less dangerous. > Here again, the Amber commandline compiler is capable of using the Google closure compiler to minify/obfuscate Amber programs. However, I only tested this completely with server side applications. Here again, it would be nice if we could resolve outstanding or unknown issues. > > Norbert > Best, Manfre > > Am 14.05.2013 um 15:32 schrieb Nicolas Petton <[email protected]>: > > > Nico > > > > > > On May 14, 2013, at 11:37 AM, Norbert Hartl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I think my last post of this message fell into the time the old mailing > list dies. So here it is again > >> > >> --- > >> > >> We (@2denker in cooperation with a local university) built a monitoring > tool for disaster scenario recovery rehearsals. Several times a year > universities, red cross, THW und hospitals are planning a rehearsal > together. For this an environment is prepared for a simulated disaster (car > accidents, explosions in civil areas, …). The local environment is prepared > to look real as well as film make-up artist prepare people for injuries > (broken legs, open head, …). > >> The rehearsal should improve the coordination of several hospitals, > firemen…as well as the quickest possible treatment for the injured. > >> > >> One important part of the rehearsal is monitoring of what happens. This > is achieved by installing a local position system and using our tool. Every > injured person gets a wireless tablet. On the tablet there are UI elements > that indicate treatment done to them. Whenever a doctor comes visiting the > injured person activates the corresponding UI button. The events are > transmitted to a server and are prepared for another analysis software. The > tablet enables the HQ to make contact to individual persons or groups. The > tablet measures times of needed treatments and instructs the injured to be > dead if measurements weren't taken in time. > >> > >> Technically it is done in smalltalk solo. > >> > >> The server is a pharo image. It has > >> > >> - web admin interface with complex forms for managing injuries, > injured, groups, etc. For this we used seaside because it is best suited > for this job. Forms are done with magritte, magritte-bootstrap. The > interface also displays the live incoming events and other data > >> - a static file server that delivers static resources to client tablets > >> - a websocket connector that is used by the clients to connect to the > server > >> - a http handler to export data to other analysis tools > >> > >> The client is done with amber smalltalk. It > >> > >> - loads the web page containing amber from the server > >> - connects back to the server > >> - downloads a UI spec for the injured using the tablet to display > personalized UI elements > >> - stores events on the tablet in case the injured is offline > >> - measures times to instruct the injured > >> > >> If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. > >> > >> Norbert > > > > -- > > Nicolas Petton > > http://www.nicolas-petton.fr > > > > > > >
