The "non-set auto stop" (NS) feature was unique to Columbia machines.
As the name suggests, it did not require that the user set or adjust the
stopping diameter which was required of other positional or proximity trip
mechanisms. Earlier stop mechanisms required the user to set the needle in
the last groove of the record and adjust the stop mechanism to trip at that
diameter. Because early acoustic records had no lead-out groove or
standardized lockout diameter (as became standard in post WWII records),
automatic stop mechanisms could not be easily and universally implemented.
The groove on early acoustic records simply ended (usually in a locked
groove - Edison DDs did not use a locked groove) whenever the music was
finished, regardless of what diameter on the record that was. Victor was
the first to use the eccentric or reciprocating lockout groove which
activated the stop when the tonearm was moved outward by the eccentric
groove. Victor began using this feature in their late acoustic records.
The Columbia NS stop feature was clever, but a bit complicated. It was
the inverse of what became pretty standard in postwar record players that
sensed the speed or velocity of the tonearm's rapid inward travel in the
leadout groove of those records that had such a groove. Such modern
mechanisms are known as the "velocity trip" type. The Columbia NS trip
sensed the absence of velocity - that is, it sensed wen the tonearm stopped
moving inward when the needle was in the final locked groove of the record.
And it did not matter what that ending diameter was - the sensing was
automatic and required no user intervention, hence, the "non-set" naming of
this mechanism. This is a tricky thing to implement in purely mechanical
means (try to imagine how you would do it) which is why the NS system was
complicated. But these NS systems are unique and interesting to demonstrate
when they work properly.
Greg Bogantz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arvin Casas" <[email protected]>
To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
Interesting. Makes me wonder about the authenticity of my 602 as it does
have the auto stop (unless I'm misunderstanding the NS feature Greg is
talking about). I've yet to pop the motor board off, but so far
everything looks "Columbia" (from needle cups, to hinge hardware to
tonearm & reproducer) How does one know if one has the non-set? (Newbie
question, so please forgive me.*)
As for the auto stop on my Grafonola 75 (or 85 - the storage system
differentiating the models was missing, but I'm rebuilding one), that has
never really "worked" as it stops two or three times per record when
engaged via the motor plate switch. Perhaps mine isn't calibrated
correctly or, as Greg mentions, it's just too difficult to maintain (for
service as well as consumer).
*I finally tracked down the Baumbach book (I had to order from Amazon UK,
shipped from New York!) so hopefully after it flies all over the Atlantic,
I'll have more info - if it's there at all! - and less newbie questions.
:-)
On 1/9/13 6:38 PM, "Greg Bogantz" <[email protected]> wrote:
I have the models 611, 613, and 810 which do not have the non-set
(NS)
auto stop feature, and I have never seen any of the VivaTonal models that
included the NS feature. Checking the Baumbach book "Columbia Phonograph
Companion, Vol II" I see that the NS feature seems to have begun with the
new line of machines introduced in 1918 and continued thru the "New
Columbia" series from 1924 to 1926. But it seems to have been dropped in
the later VivaTonal and electric series of machines. The NS feature was
somewhat complicated and may have proven difficult to maintain which may
have been the reason that Columbia omitted it in their later models.
They
used an "improved auto-stop" feature in the electronic model 920 that was
claimed to work on all types of records, but I have not seen one of these
to
tell if it is similar to the NS or otherwise how it works.
Greg Bogantz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arvin Casas" <[email protected]>
To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75,
1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the
motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the
motor
board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It
should
not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all
the
way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks.
Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on
eBay
right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and
is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to
omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the
effort
of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the
platter
that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop?
On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, "Jim Cartwright" <[email protected]> wrote:
My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic "Credenza,"
partially
because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the
turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn & rebuilt the
soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as
Beecham
conducting Mozart's "Symphony in E-flat" with the London Philharmonic.
My
only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that
would
cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to
top
of
the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air
leaks?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On
Behalf Of Arvin Casas
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply
but I
only subscribe to the digest.)
I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and
posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member.
Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me!
:)
I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night,
once green, so that confirms everyone's input.
I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg
and
will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable
job
on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers.
Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on,
as in my case, but by the 700 & 800 series Columbia had models with
velvet
(I learned this via phonoland.)
Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding,
though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.)
Thanks again all.
On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, "Ron L'Herault" <[email protected]> wrote:
My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the
turntables.
Bumpers look like green felt.
Ron L
On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, "DanKj" <[email protected]> wrote:
There's a 602 on YooToob, TT & felt visible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4
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