So why did Russia fail? On Sep 9, 2:50 am, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > VT > *I have used my own words all through this thread. > > *What is it that you disagree/agree with in my very limited assessment > of Obama? > > *It is impossible to present an overall understanding of the causes of > the crisis that are effecting the global economy in just a few lines, > when the growth of the contradictions occur over the span of several > decades. I can only hope to provide snippets to expose tendencies > which are present within the system itself and their likely outcome. I > can certainly recommend numerous pamphlets and articles that explain > these processes in detail. > > *Genuine socialism requires the total abolishment of the nation-state > and the profit system with the means of production and the worlds > resources being owned and controlled democratically by all mankind, > not a handful of capitalists that hold the rest of humanity to ransom. > This is the basis on which the failed Russian revolution was fought, > on internationalism "workers of the world unite" I point this out to > demonstrate that genuine socialism can only exists when capitalism no > longer exists. So I am certainly not an advocate of the regimes run > under the brutal fist of Stalin, Mao, Castro and the biggest fraud of > all Chavez, which were/are all counterrevolutionary. I am not > attempting to sway you at all, I am clarifying my position a little. 8 > years ago I was a labor voter, much water under the bridge has passed > since then. > > Cheers > > On Sep 9, 2:47 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Frank you are assuming things and in doing so you show you > > have no clue who you are talking to. > > > I was VERY critical of Obama and in fact many of my critizisms > > are being used against Obama now. > > > Try not to paint me with such a broad brush and LISTEN and READ > > my posts. > > > Obama is not President and Bin laden IS a proven enemy of the > > 'US. > > > Your economic BS is only partially correct, which gives you just > > enough > > validity and credibility to persuade the uninformed that you know > > what you are talking about. > > > You don't have a complete grasp of your ideas because they are > > not your own. Use your brain and you can better argue your > > beliefs. > > > On Sep 9, 12:29 am, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You are making no sense whatsoever. The US has been the world's > > > biggest debtor since the mid 1980's, requiring the influx of $2-3 > > > billion dollars a day in international direct investment to keep the > > > economy afloat. The industrial sector has lost millions of jobs > > > because of the dot com bubble bust and the the shipping of > > > manufacturing off shore to Asia. Holden once employed 600,000 in the > > > US it now has 140,000 and counting. The loss of jobs and weakening of > > > the economy doesn't happen overnight, both parties are responsible. > > > > Are you trying to tell me millions marched against the war before it > > > was launched and the Democrats had no idea that the intelligence was > > > fake. Get real > > > > You are very outspoken critic of the Bush administration, and with > > > good cause. The Bush administration is nothing more than a criminal > > > cabal of gangster’s thugs and war criminals. However you fail to apply > > > the same standards and objectivity when it comes to the Democrats and > > > Obama. > > > > Without listing a litany of transgressions, Obama supports the war on > > > terror. The war on terror is central to the Bush administrations > > > waging of preemptive imperialist wars in the Middle East. It is a > > > bogus, opened ended war that can be invoked indefinitely to justify > > > further military aggression by the US without provocation. > > > > Obama supports the breeching of Pakistani Sovereignty resulting in the > > > deaths of innocent civilians. Obama has supported the funding of the > > > war on the pretense of supporting the troops, when any rational person > > > knows bringing the troops home is the best support that can be > > > bestowed upon them. > > > > This alone makes Obama complicit in the heinous war crimes committed > > > by the Bush administration, along with most of his reprehensible > > > colleagues. > > > > Obama promises social reforms when he knows very well he cannot make > > > good these promises. The US is ostensibly bankrupt, surviving on the > > > influx of overseas investment that is rapidly drying up due to the > > > global economic crisis. The Fed cannot continue to bail out failing > > > banking institutions; it does not have infinite resources. > > > > This scenario is repeated in every industrialized country, as all so- > > > called workers parties due to economic conditions can NO longer grant > > > concessions to the working class and have swung sharply to the right > > > clawing back all the hard won concessions won by workers after WW2, > > > including the Dems. It was Clinton that lead the assault on the US > > > health care system. > > > > Economics and the demands of capital (big business) drive policy, not > > > the will of the masses. Ideology is just that, an ideal that needs the > > > right environment to be realized. This environment does not exist in > > > the current socio-economic set up. > > > > On Sep 9, 2:13 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Frank the world BOUGHT the US Debt thinking it was secure. > > > > The Mortgage bonds would have been secured if the economy > > > > was strong, jobs were not being shipped overseas, and the > > > > nation did not have to raise interest rates to get the world > > > > to buy our DEBT, which put a burden on home owners with > > > > ARM's whose rates went up continuously for 13 straight tax hikes! > > > > > The Democrats supported Bush based on his LIE about the NIE. > > > > > If the truth about the WMD's were known no one would have > > > > given Bush the green light to challenge Saddam about the WMD's. > > > > > Republicans in Congress BLOCKED all challenges to the Bush > > > > war so in effect THEY as well as the Bush White House are > > > > responsible. > > > > > On Sep 8, 6:11 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The financial crisis in the US cannot be laid at the feet of the > > > > > Republicans. The decision to go to war, a big drain on the US, was > > > > > backed by the Democrats as well, while the melt down of the financial > > > > > sector is a worldwide phenomenon, of which the sub-prime loans are but > > > > > an extreme expression > > > > > > All the major industrialized nations are in the same position: record > > > > > government and personnel debt, job losses, the slashing of wages and > > > > > conditions and the destruction of the manufacturing sector that has > > > > > moved offshore in search of cheap labor. > > > > > > The build up of debt commenced in the 80’s, by the 2003 the US made > > > > > the decision to go to war to secure the resources of the Middle East > > > > > to offset the financial slide. The Bush administration is responsible > > > > > for heinous crimes against humanity, but they are not responsible for > > > > > a systematic global financial meltdown (although they are doing > > > > > nothing to help those most in need). > > > > > > On Sep 9, 7:29 am, VT Sean Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Republicans and McCain if things are going so well, > > > > > > why the $5 Trillion Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae Bailout? > > > > > > > The tax cuts should have gone to the middle class, > > > > > > not the richest Americans. It is very clear that trickle down > > > > > > did not work. > > > > > > > It is very clear it is the American middle class who need the > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > It is very clear that after 6 years of the Bush Tax cuts the > > > > > > 11 Million jobs and the prosperity Bush Promised these tax > > > > > > cuts would bring never happened. > > > > > > > The bottom line is that the Americans who will have to PAY > > > > > > for this bailout will be the MIDDLE CLASS, because the > > > > > > Republicans want to make the Tax Cuts to the Rich Permanent. > > > > > > > Is this the change McCain talks about, because he supports > > > > > > the Bush Tax cuts. > > > > > > > Fannie, Freddie deal helps some borrowers, not all By J.W. > > > > > > ELPHINSTONE, AP Business Writer > > > > > > Mon Sep 8, 1:27 PM ET > > > > > > > The government's historic bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on > > > > > > Sunday will be good news to homebuyers and some homeowners hoping to > > > > > > refinance if it leads to lower mortgage rates, as experts expect. > > > > > > > But for homeowners already behind on their mortgage payments, or who > > > > > > owe more than their homes are now worth, the plan unveiled Sunday by > > > > > > Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson offers little in the way of extra > > > > > > relief. > > > > > > > "The bailout will give the mortgage industry a stability that we > > > > > > haven't had in a couple of years," said Rich Cosner, president of > > > > > > Prudential California Realty. "But frankly no, it won't help > > > > > > (struggling borrowers) to refinance." > > > > > > > Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac play a critical and increasingly dominant > > > > > > role in the mortgage market. The companies buy mortgage loans from > > > > > > banks and package those loans into securities that they either hold > > > > > > or > > > > > > sell to U.S. and foreign investors. That allows traditional lenders > > > > > > like Bank of America, Wells Fargo and Washington Mutual to make more > > > > > > loans. > > > > > > > Together, Fannie and Freddie own or guarantee about $5 trillion in > > > > > > home loans, about half the nation's total. But an alarming number of > > > > > > those loans started going into default, draining the companies' > > > > > > financial reserves and sending a chill through credit markets > > > > > > worldwide. As investors grew more skittish, borrowing costs started > > > > > > rising. > > > > > > > By placing Fannie and Freddie into a conservatorship, the government > > > > > > is > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
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