http://www.economicshelp.org/2008/07/karl-marx-revolutionary-economist.html
Karl Marx - The Revolutionary Economist There are few economists who have become both so reviled, and admired as Marx. Indeed some would even question whether Marx deserves to be called an economist; others would prefer terms like 'bungling and failed revolutionary'. However, there are certainly few economists who read so widely and wrote so much as Marx. Whether you love or loathe Marx, we cannot deny his writings had profound influence on the twentieth century. What Did Marx Believe? Marx believed society was an evolving struggle. He believed Capitalism was an evolving structure. However, unlike Adam Smith, Marx did not believe this evolution was always smooth, nor did he believe it evolved for the best. In fact Marx, predicted the collapse of Capitalism. Marx placed great value on economic forces for explaining social structures. He argued that institutions such as church, education and the state evolved to support the capitalist class. But, Marx, was revolutionary in placing so much emphasis on the power of economic forces to influence society. Marxist Critique of Capitalism. Marx examined society and argued that the wealth of capitalists was based on paying labour less than their true labour value (underpaid labour). This difference between the true labour value and the wages paid led to the accumulation of money capital. Marx argued that Capitalism was inherently unstable because: Workers were abused and disenfranchised. As capitalism developed, Marx predicted, workers would become increasingly alienated and seek to overthrow the capitalist class. Capitalists could make bad decisions about what to produce Growth was not guaranteed but could become volatile leading to periods of economic slump. Marxists certainly point to the Great Depression of a vindication of how capitalism can fail. Failings of Marxism The proletariat mostly became better off. Economic growth did enable Capitalists to make more profit, but, ultimately, workers benefited from real wage rises. In the nineteenth and twentieth century, labour was often exploited with poor conditions and low wages. But, workers have become better off. After all, it is in the interests of Capitalists to have a workforce who can afford to buy their goods. The elusive 'dictatorship of the Proletariat' in practice tended to be more about 'dictatorship' and less about the proletariat. In some ways Marx was a democrat. He was criticising a system which did not extend the vote to large sways of the working class; he wanted these disenfranchised workers to be enfranchised. But, in practise, Marxism is indelibly linked to the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union. Why Mention Marxism - Surely it is all History? I can imagine some readers (especially in America) thinking why even mention Marx? Surely, he was hopelessly flawed and the inspiration behind the despotic Stalinist regime? It is worth mentioning what John Maynard Keynes says on Marxism (1931) "How can I accept the [Communist] doctrine, which sets up as its bible, above and beyond criticism, an obsolete textbook which I know not only to be scientifically erroneous but without interest or application to the modern world? How can I adopt a creed which, preferring the mud to the fish, exalts the boorish proletariat above the bourgeoisie and the intelligentsia, who with all their faults, are the quality of life and surely carry the seeds of all human achievement? Even if we need a religion, how can we find it in the turbid rubbish of the red bookshop? It is hard for an educated, decent, intelligent son of Western Europe to find his ideals here, unless he has first suffered some strange and horrid process of conversion which has changed all his values."[13] Why Marx is Important Marx was a revolutionary, he enabled a powerful critique of capitalism. This was perhaps essential for more informed criticism to emerge over time. We do not have to agree with a revolutionary to acknowledge that they bring new issues into a different perspective. I do not agree with Plato, but, at the time his work was important for the development for Western thought. Marx never lived to see the Russian Revolution. I imagine he would have generally supported Lenin and Trotsky, but would have been disgusted with Stalin who was only a Communist out of convenience to achieve his goal of absolute power. Whether we like it or not, the ideals of the Communist Manifesto did inspire many. At a time of vast inequality and widespread poverty, it is hardly surprising that many were excited by a vision of a society based on equality and fairness rather than the abject poverty and inequality prevalent in nineteenth century society. On Oct 9, 5:06 pm, "\"Lone Wolf\"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The thing is CW, I have said this meltdown was inevitable based on > what I have learnt. Leaving aside socialism for the moment, Marxism is > a scientific study of socio-economic relations. In other words it is > an objective study of the workings of capitalism. Marx didn't set out > with a vendetta against capitalism, on the contrary, all Marxists > acknowledge that the industrialization of production was a very > positive thing, however these forces of production became so efficient > that the amount they produce exceeds the requirements of individual > nation states forcing them to expand beyond their boarders bringing > them into conflict with other nation states that also needed to expand > their capital. So when the ablility to expand production ran into a > dead end, profit was accured by parasitic speculation divorced from > production. > That is a major factor and contradiction within capitalism that is the > cause unsustainable debt that has been accrued. It has nothing to do > with the individual policies of governments. Did they all of a sudden > indulge in the same parasitic practices by coincidence? Unlikely. Is > it just a few greedy bankers and investors that are responsible for > bringing the world markets to their knees? Don't think so > > I was a labour voter 5 years ago, I didn't know Karl Marx from Grouch > Marx. Upon objective investigation Marxism has proved itself correct, > I can't alter that, its the way it is, whether I like it or not. And > frankly I don't care. I just want the facts, not the unrelated BS and > stupid inane mud slinging between candidates because they have nothing > decent to say and they don't even understand why the system they > support is in such a state of disfunction. One things for sure, > throwing good money after bad is the worst thing they can do > > So even if the fat ladies fat is not signing, if gives it a very > sonorous mellow tone. > > PS. Born n' bread in Australia ya know. Lived 'ere all mi life, I ave > > On Oct 10, 8:33 am, Cold Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > It is a little strange that Doric/Frank/Lone Wolf doesn't get it. > > Doric/Frank/Lone Wolf claims to live in Australia (although I doubt he is > > Australian born) and any trip to Sydney would include a visit to the > > (somewhat odd IMO) opera house where "the fat sings" regularly. LMBO!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gaar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "PoliticalForum" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:19 PM > > Subject: Re: Iceland Takes Over Kaupthing as Biggest Banks Fail..........the > > > fat lady sings > > > ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > And yes Zeb, he has certainly shown, time and again, that he doesn't > > "get it", on many things... > > > On Oct 9, 2:15 pm, Cold Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I liked it better when he had the fat singing. I will tell you something > > > and you can take it to the bank - fat doesn't sing. After I gave birth to > > > my third child I had 20 pounds of baby fat to lose and that baby fat > > > didn't > > > sing!!! It took almost a year to for me to get rid of it. > > > > CW > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Zebnick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "PoliticalForum" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:00 PM > > > Subject: Re: Iceland Takes Over Kaupthing as Biggest Banks > > > Fail..........the > > > > fat lady sings > > > > I don't think you understand this whole "fat lady sings" analogy. > > > > On Oct 9, 4:24 pm, "\"Lone Wolf\"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Iceland Takes Over Kaupthing as Biggest Banks Fail (Update5) > > > > > By Tasneem Brogger > > > > > Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Iceland's government seized control of > > > > Kaupthing Bank hf, the nation's biggest bank, completing the takeover > > > > of a financial industry that collapsed under the weight of foreign > > > > debt. > > > > > Iceland is guaranteeing Kaupthing's domestic deposits and helping > > > > manage the banks to provide a ``functioning domestic banking system,'' > > > > the country's Financial Supervisory Authority said in a statement on > > > > its Web site today. > > > > > Glitnir Bank hf, Landsbanki Island hf and Kaupthing are unable to > > > > finance about $61 billion of debt, 12 times the size of the economy, > > > > according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Their collapse has affected > > > > 420,000 British and Dutch customers, and frozen assets held by > > > > universities, hospitals, councils and even London's police force. The > > > > government is seeking a loan from Russia and may ask for aid from the > > > > International Monetary Fund to help guarantee deposits. > > > > > ``This looks like a total collapse,'' said Thomas Haugaard Jensen, an > > > > economist at Svenska Handelsbanken AB in Copenhagen. ``It'll take > > > > several years before the economy can start to return to growth.'' > > > > > All trading in Iceland's equity markets is suspended until Oct. 13 due > > > > to ``unusual market conditions,'' the country's exchange said today. > > > > The FSA said it planned to form a new bank with Landsbanki's domestic > > > > operations, keeping open branches, call centers and cash machines. > > > > > Currency Peg > > > > > Trading in the krona ground to a halt today after the central bank > > > > yesterday ditched an attempt to fix the exchange rate at 131 krona to > > > > the euro. Nordea Bank AB, the biggest Scandinavian lender, said the > > > > krona hadn't been traded on the spot market today, while the last > > > > quoted price was 340 per euro, compared with 122 a month ago. > > > > > Assets at Iceland's three biggest banks had grown five-fold since 2004 > > > > as the companies looked to expand beyond the confines of an island > > > > with a population of 320,000, half that of Las Vegas. Much of that > > > > growth was debt financed, helping send gross external debt to 9.55 > > > > trillion kronur at the end of the second quarter, equivalent to > > > > $276,622 for every person on the island. > > > > > The cost of borrowing in dollars for three months in London soared to > > > > the highest level this year today as coordinated interest-rate > > > > reductions worldwide failed to revive lending among banks for any > > > > longer than a day, partly on concern over who holds Icelandic debt. > > > > > U.K. taxpayers will probably face a bill of at least 2.4 billion > > > > pounds ($4.1 billion) to compensate about 300,000 U.K. holders of > > > > accounts at Icesave, a unit of Landsbanki, the Financial Times > > > > reported, citing unidentified U.K. officials. > > > > > `Severe Recession' > > > > > ``The economy may well contract more than 10 percent between now and > > > > the end of this crisis,'' said Lars Christensen, chief analyst at > > > > Danske Bank A/S in Copenhagen. ``Inflation will jump to at least 50 > > > > percent to 75 percent in the coming months.'' > > > > > To avert the collapse, Iceland will start talks with Russia on Tuesday > > > > to secure a loan of as much as 4 billion euros ($5.48 billion), Prime > > > > Minister Geir Haarde said late yesterday. He added that loans from the > > > > IMF and Russia ``are not mutually exclusive,'' though the government > > > > hadn't, ``at this point at least,'' asked the IMF for a standby loan > > > > or an economic program. > > > > > Fitch Ratings Ltd. cut Iceland's long-term foreign currency issuer > > > > default rating to BBB- from A-. The rating remains on negative watch, > > > > Fitch said. > > > > > ``Iceland faces a very severe recession which will result in a further > > > > deterioration in banks' domestic assets,'' Fitch said in a statement. > > > > ``It remains uncertain as to the extent that the sovereign can > > > > distance itself from the foreign liabilities of failing Icelandic > > > > banks.'' > > > > > Kaupthing's entire board of directors has resigned and the FSA has > > > > appointed a committee to wind up the lender's business, the bank said > > > > in a statement today. > > > > > No Parallel > > > > > ``It's difficult to find any parallels to what's happening in Iceland > > > > in the industrialized world,'' Jensen said. ``You'd have to look to > > > > emerging markets, and after the Asian crisis, for example, those > > > > economies contracted about 10 percent.'' > > > > > The debts of the Icelandic banking system are too big for the > > > > government to repay. > > > > > ``There is no way that the Icelandic population can assume > > > > responsibility for the private debt'' that the banks have built up, > > > > Haarde said yesterday. > > > > > Other countries are in a better situation. The U.K.'s banks will get a > > > > 50 billion-pound ($87 billion) government lifeline and emergency loans > > > > from the central bank after the freeze in credit markets threatened to > > > > bring down the financial system. > > > > > The Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and four other central > > > > banks lowered interest rates yesterday in a coordinated effort to ease > > > > the economic effects of the worst financial crisis since the Great > > > > Depression. > > > > > This year and next, Kaupthing has 5 billion euros of debt obligations > > > > maturing, according to Bloomberg data. Glitnir's debt obligations over > > > > the same period are about 4 billion euros and Landsbanki has about 2 > > > > billion euros to finance. > > > > > To contact the reporters on this story: Tasneem Brogger in Copenhagen > > > > at [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > > > > Last Updated: October 9, 2008 14:26 EDT > > > > > Email this article Printer friendly format- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
