Christopher Barker wrote: >This is my point. You couldn't actually get anything done without downloading >and installing _something_. Once you're doing that, it would have made very >little difference if you had downloaded and installed a new version of Python >as well.
I think what's happening in this discussion is we've got two camps talking past one another. One side sees the problem primarily as a marketing issue: "How can we attract the widest possible audience, i.e. both serious and casual users?" The other sees it as a purely technical issue: "How can we provide the latest, best tools for the minimum amount of time and work?" It's the classic OSS conundrum: nobody's getting paid to do any of this, so they either focus on supporting areas that they're already working in themselves, or they get a missionary streak and commit to supporting areas outside of their own interests. The first approach provides a fair amount of benefit for a little extra work; the second provides greater benefit but requires more work to support, i.e. a long term commitment to support work that provides no personal gain (except karma). I have no problem with folk like Chris and Bob saying they're only interested in supporting serious comers. They just need to acknowledge that such a "pro-oriented" focus won't, and isn't intended to, appeal to all sections of the audience out there. (Hint: casual browsers are liable to mis-read this stance as "NO PLAYING ON THE GRASS: YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING WE SAY OR WE AREN'T TALKING TO YOU!" and head straight to another language were they'll feel more welcome.) I have no problem with the more evangelically minded saying "pro-market's fine, but we want to attract lots of non-pros too". They just need to acknowledge that they're not looking for assistance from the pro-camp to help out with the non-pro-oriented marketing and support work. (They also need to sit down and think carefully about just how much unrewarded missionary work they're willing to commit to on a long-term basis; it's all too easy to come up with grandiose plans that turn to dust after six months when it dawns just how big a commitment they've taken on.) So there's two options to this whole "let's market Mac Python" thing. Either go for the "my way or the highway" approach, which'll largely look after itself but cater to only a subset of the possible market and let Ruby take the rest. OR agree to work alongside one another as two fairly independent teams, one catering to the casual end of the market, the other to the serious. If folk can agree on the latter approach, both camps should set up on the same website, and each look after their own sections of interest. As for the frontpage, split it across the middle: top half for the cheery "let's introduce you to Python in 30 seconds" spiel; bottom half for "here be teh hardcore haxxors; come be one with us if you think you're hard enough". And somewhere in the middle, you can have a Top 10 lists of why it's really worth upgrading to the latest and greatest Python et-al, providing a natural path for casual users to follow once we've got our hooks in 'em good and proper. has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
