You wanna talk about heavy steering? Try riding a Bilenky Viewpoint. The stoker sits directly over the front [20 inch] wheel. My stoker weighs about 150 lbs. Makes for steering that is both heavy AND quick!
Regards, Corwin On Tuesday, July 22, 2025 at 11:35:29 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote: > Others have said that they don’t mind front loads in bar bags on their > Rams; Andy did notice it; I too noticed it. I daresay it comes down to what > a particular rider “noticing threshold” — at what point a handling quality > becomes first, noticeable, and then, annoying. And I would also guess that > it might have something to do with your riding position. I set up my bikes > with a rearward saddle position and knee well behind pedal spindle, which > would leave the front end light except that I use drops and so put more > weight on the front wheel than with a swept back bar. OTOH, when I’m > climbing seated, I’m shoved back with hands lightly resting on the ramps. > > I haven’t noticed a tendency to wander when climbing slowly thus seated, > at least on my various custom roads and on the Ram, at least, if there is a > tendency, it was negligible; where I did notice it was on the first edition > Sam, where yes, indeed, it was annoying. All bikes unladen in front and > with and without rear loads. But I daresay that adding 10 lb to the front > of these road bikes would indeed exacerbate the tendency to the point of > annoyance. > > I did noticed even very modest loads on the front of my ’99 Joe Starck > gofast, though this was with one of those very old-fashioned bar bags that > uses a steel bracket that slips over the bar and under the stem, with > prongs that fit into sleeves on the side of the bag; thus holding the bag > an inch or two out from the bar. But I had only 3-5 lb in the bag and it > was very noticeable, tho’ not to the point of intolerable, just annoying. > > At any rate, for my Rivendell road bikes and others modeled on them, I > much prefer rear loads. I did ride 2 low-trail bikes with front loads and > didn’t care for their handling. The first was a Kogswell Porteur (I think > that was the model; at any rate, it was low trail and had a big platform > rack on front to which I attached some medium laden panniers, perhaps 30 lb > total. Unexceptionable handling, but I much prefer the handling of my Rivs > and didn’t take a shine to it. > > The second low trail bike I owned and rode for 18 or 24 months: an > otherwise lovely 1958 Rene Herse (the old builder, not the modern company) > with custom front and rear racks. That bike fit perfectly from the first > ride and was one of those rare gems that consistently in all conditions > encourage you to ride 1 tooth smaller in back, but here too I just didn’t > care for the handling. And it didn’t take well the sometimes heavy grocery > loads I carry, either in front or in the rear. Even unladen I found the > handling, what, dull or unexciting, the opposite of that signature Grantian > handling of supreme straight light stability with unerring turn-in in > corners. So I sold it on. > > Different strokes for different folks, as the refrain went from that > archly annoying song by Sly and the Family Stone. But man! I do love me the > handling of my mid-trail (I guess) Rivendell road bikes, unladen or with > rear loads! — that Sam notwithstanding. > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2025 at 10:51 AM ascpgh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I have a bigger Rambouillet and without a load on the front it does have >> some idiosyncrasies that come with the Rivendell geometry and handling, >> specifically at lower speeds on steeper climbs at lower cadences. The trail >> dimension presents a bigger lever arm to the rider, load and rest of the >> bike for changing the direction of the front wheel. Steve P. wrote of this >> and his Ram. Front wheel flop is accentuated by more mass and more trail >> but is moderated by speed. >> >> I got my Rambouillet specifically for joining a group riding the Trans-Am >> east to west after convincing the others to do so in a light/sport touring >> or credit card format to prevent having to buy new bikes and a ton of gear >> for a self supported effort. I did it with my Carradice Nelson Long Flap >> saddle bag on a bagman support, spares and tools in a small seat wedge >> under the saddle and three water bottles on the frame. I was over the >> recommended load for the bike but with the rear bias it wasn't a handful. >> In fact, on the descent from the Blue Ridge Parkway I was amazed by the >> control and confidence it provided. >> >> On the 2012 Riv Rally I added a Velo Orange rando bag to my Rambouillet >> for some more space. The ride was on the Great Allegheny Passage so the >> terrain was not so steep The "climb" from Cumberland to Big Savage Mountain >> while sustained follows an old railway line so it lacks true steepness you >> come across riding along roads. The tendency of load and the alternating >> leaning off center of pedaling would have an amplified effect on the front >> wheel directional stability. What's geometrically good for stability down >> the road at normal speeds can be destabilizing at low speeds and cadence. >> The Riv Rally morning riding out of Cumberland was not stellar for the >> stability of steering on the 25 mile climb but at least we weren't in >> traffic. A lot of anticipatory effort required to prevent/overcome >> self-steering zig-zagging. >> [image: 6F0034BF-97F2-43AA-932C-28927F02CD92_1_105_c.jpeg] >> Even just sitting there reasonably upright the front bag initiated a big >> old flop. Not how I rode across the country. >> >> Andy Cheatham >> Pittsburgh >> >> >> On Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 4:52:03 PM UTC-4 Luke Volkmann wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I'm curious to get the opinions of those who have carried front weight >>> on their Rambouillet. How does it impact the steering, do you like it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Luke >>> >> -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aa16c32d-61fa-4dd4-b1f6-d91d9238a2e5n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aa16c32d-61fa-4dd4-b1f6-d91d9238a2e5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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