Hi Shuping: Some comments in line prefaced with DA>
From: Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 8:01 PM To: David Allan I <[email protected]>; Lizhenbin <[email protected]>; [email protected]; RTGWG <[email protected]> Cc: 6MAN <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Hi David, I think the network scenarios in Robin’s mind are something like the diagrams below. MBB: gNB -- PE1 ----- (SRv6) tunnel ---- PE2 -- UPF FBB: RG -- PE1 ----- (SRv6) tunnel ---- PE2 – BNG DA> The scenarios I’m considering area: MBB: UE------------gNB------UPF WWC: 5G-RG-------PON/DSL-----AGF------UPF In the MBB, “The QFI is carried in an encapsulation header on N3 (and N9)” – TS23.501. That is between gNB and UPF is the GTP-u and QFI is used in the GTP-u tunnel, while between PE1 and PE2 is the IP metro network and APN attribute is used in the IP tunnel (e.g. SRv6 tunnel). DA> Well it actually originates in the UE and IIRC it is encoded in PDCP. So the basic classification occurs at the ingress points to the 5G System. In the wireline WWC case it is the 5G-RG and encoded in RFC 8822 encapsulation. At PE1, the QFI and other information in the packet header (payload is not touched) could be used to construct the APN attribute based on the Operator’s configurations, which will be encapsulated in an IP tunnel header such as SRv6 header on top of the GTP-u tunnel. This APN attribute will be used within the IP metro network to do the policy enforcement and service provisioning. Once the packet leaves the IP metro network, the APN attribute will be removed/decapsulated together with the IP tunnel header. DA> I could see the utility of classifying at the PE to find the QFI and using it as an input at an ingress SR-PE but that requires coordination with the 5G system. Duplicating it or something similar in yet another layer seems to be baggage, and counter to the design philosophy of SR as the utility of this would appear to require statefulness in the P routers. The FBB case is similar to MBB. DA> Well PON architectures commonly deployed tend to fill the gap between the RG and the BNG with fiber and an OLT with a TR-101 like handoff to the BNG. A much much simpler topology than what is suggested here. Here RG/BNG (BBF is responsible) and gNB/UPF (3GPP is responsible) are not touched. DA> In my experience this is not really appliable to a lot of existing FBB deployments, and duplicates all the moving parts of the MBB/WWC architecture at yet another layer. Best regards, Shuping Cheers Dave From: ipv6 [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Allan I Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 5:14 AM To: Lizhenbin <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; RTGWG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: 6MAN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Hi Looking over the draft I’m struggling to tell the difference between an APN encoded in tunnel meta data and a 5G System QFI encoded in tunnel meta data. There appears to be a 1:1 conceptual alignment, classification at system ingress, derive the value, encode for use by intermediate systems in encapsulating metadata. So I would observe that besides being functionally identical, compared to existing wireline deployments, the 5G System also has the rest of the tools to fully operationalize, apply policy to and monetize this stuff. And the BBF along with 3GPP are busy specifying convergence to add this functionality to wireline access…. 5G FMC Architecture (broadband-forum.org)<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8bf2f419-d469cd1c-8bf2b482-86959e472243-29d6ea77ba4fad20&q=1&e=bcdb72d7-8f87-4824-bcfa-9b831ad71e14&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.broadband-forum.org%2Ftechnical%2Fdownload%2FTR-470.pdf> And the 3GPP counterpart is TS 23.316 (release 16). FYI, the BBF is currently working on issue 2 of the 5G WWC specification set and looking to publish by YE. So what problem are we solving again here? Cheers Dave From: ipv6 <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Lizhenbin Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 8:27 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; RTGWG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: 6MAN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Hi Folks, In the interim meeting, there were much discussion on the BNG deployment in the home broadband scenario. In the section 5 of the following draft, there is more details about the scenarios. https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-li-apn-problem-statement-usecases-03.txt As far as I know, there are types of deployment of BNGs in the scenarios: 1. RG is directly connected with the BNG 2. RG is connected spanning the metro network. Because the BNG is responsible for the user management, if failure happens, it will have much negative effect on the users’ access to the Internet or other network services. If the second deployment method is used, the number of the BNG is small and the BNG can access more users, but the risk is high. If the first deployment is adopted, it may need more BNGs, but the risk can be low. So there is the trade-off in the network design and the deployment of the BNG. The draft takes the second deployment to illustrate that the QinQ information besides the 5-tuple information can also be mapped to APN ID when the packet traverses the metro network. That is the reason why not describe the first type of deployment. Best Regards, Robin From: Apn [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 10:53 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Cc: 6MAN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; RTGWG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [Apn] Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Dear all, Many thanks for the questions, comments, and suggestions from those who joined the APN focused Interim meeting yesterday, which were very helpful to further refine the work and progress it forwards. Please find the meeting minutes and materials discussed yesterday. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-rtgwg-01/session/rtgwg If you have any views, comments, and questions, please don’t hesitate to post them in the mailing list. Many thanks again to our AD and Chairs for arranging this Interim meeting! Nice weekend! ☺ Best regards, Shuping j From: ipv6 [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 9:14 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Cc: 6MAN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; RTGWG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Dear all, Just a reminder that the APN focused Interim meeting @RTG will be held tomorrow, Thursday 2021-06-03 14:00 UTC. The Webex is attached. You could find the slides that are going to guide the discussions in the following link. There might be minor updates in the final slides. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-rtgwg-01/session/rtgwg The tentative agenda is as follows, 1. Agenda bashing (10mins) –AD, Chairs 2. Problem Statement (30mins) – Gyan Mishra 3. Solution discussions (45-60mins) – Shuping/Robin 4. Wrap-up & action plan (10mins) – Chairs If you have any suggestions and comments, please let us know. Many thanks! Best regards, Shuping From: Apn [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 8:55 AM To: 6MAN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; Routing Area Working Group <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Dear all, The APN Interim meeting has been scheduled on June 3rd. Please find the meeting information shared by the Chairs of the RTG WG below. In this APN Interim meeting, we are going to focus more on the discussions of the solutions (more overview than details), including 1. the design of the APN attribute itself 2. the encapsulation of the APN attribute on the various data planes (the encapsulation on the IPv6 data plane is an example) 3. the control plane protocols extensions for exchanging the APN attribute 4. NETCONF/YANG models for the NBI and SBI You are very welcomed to join the discussions, and your comments and suggestions are very much appreciated. Thank you! Best regards, Shuping From: rtgwg [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 6:38 AM To: Routing WG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; RTGWG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim Dear RTGWG, We have scheduled Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim (agenda to be published), June 3rd, 2021, 7:00AM PST Looking forward to seeing you, Cheers, Jeff and Chris When it's time, start your Webex meeting here. 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