On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 4:22 PM, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > In the end it all boils down to platform support and I see ecls as the > > > silver bullet here for Sage+lisp. > > > > I have no idea why you think ECLS is a silver bullet. Three years ago > > I > > moved Axiom onto the handheld Zaurus using GCL. And many years ago I > > moved Axiom onto DOS 3.0 using GCL. Maxima runs (fast) using GCL. Why > > do you want to move off that platform? It contains everything you > > need, > > it builds from source, it is actively maintained, and is very fast. > > No, it fails to build on Solaris and since Sage on Solaris is of > essential importance we will/cannot use it. It used to be quite bad on > OSX, but it has gotten much better there. I am certain I can get some > sort of lisp running on pretty much any system, but that is not the > Sage way. We want a self hosted, compile from source anywhere lisp > that Maxima supports and we are now talking about the empty set. Feel > free to prove me wrong, I would be very, very happy to be proven wrong > on this. Ironically the most portable lisp implementation is the one > in Emacs, but I don't think it is common lisp. > > > > I'm > > sure you have good reasons for choosing ECLS but I don't understand. > > I just works with little need to do have a magic lisp machine working > since it uses a C compiler directly. > > > > Frankly, I'd think that it would be straightforward to write a python > > compiler in lisp (if only the EU would give me the $20M Euro it gave > > the other project). > > PyPy sucks and blows at the same time. Throwing money at a problem > never solved it. I am sure you have read the mythical man month. ;) > > > Once that was done you could compile and optimize > > the python automatically. My son implemented a commercially available > > PHP compiler in lisp in under 3 years and python is about the same > > complexity. > > Sure, I am not saying it is impossible. Some people (like you and > Fateman) prefer lisp and think it is the answer. But if I look around > at people at the university level or a couple years out of it there is > very, very little lisp. So, while the absolute number of lisp > programmers might have grown over the years its part of the > programming market has shrunk since the programming market has gotten > so much bigger. This webpage has a ranking of programming language popularity, which might be a bit more scientific then the above anecdotal when "I look around". This page is for the following purpose: "The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system." http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html It goes: Java, C, Visual Basic, PHP, C++, Perl, Python then C#, Ruby, Delphi, Javascript, D, PL/SQL, then SAS, Pascal, Lisp/Scheme, FoxPro, Cobol, ADA, so lisp is number 17. In raw numbers Python is ten times as popular as Lisp and Scheme. In the next group (below 20) is: ColdFusion, Logo, Lua, ActionScript, FORTRAN, RPG, Matlab, Prolog, AWK, ... and R is at 45th. -- William > The beautiful thing about Open Source is that as long > as one person cares a project does not die. But that doesn't mean that > lisp+Sage is a good match ;) Also projects (even closed ones) can die and be resurrected. Maybe Scratchpad/Axiom an example of such a project... That's a good thing. > > In fact, if I were still teaching the compiler course, I'd > > assign it as a class project. Until python has a decent compiler I > > have trouble considering it anything more than MS-basic with classes. > > (And that, of course, is certainly NOT gonna make me popular). > > > > Tim > > Well, I don't see lisp making a come back any time soon. People have > done a python to lisp machine port but it never got very far and there > is quite a difference between "something that works for me" to > "something that works!" - I experience this daily with Sage and it is > hard, hard work to make Sage run and compile beyond the normal Linux & > OSX mix. Disagree with Michael about porting/building issues at your own peril. -- William --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
