On Jul 27, 3:11 am, David Kirkby <david.kir...@onetel.net> wrote:
> 2009/7/27 Peter Jeremy <peterjer...@optushome.com.au>:
>
>
>
> > On 2009-Jul-26 11:07:49 -0700, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Hi Sage-Devel (in particular, people who know about electrical circuits),
>
> > I'm not an EE but electronics is a hobby of mine.
>
> >>I just happen to be meeting with an undergrad tomorrow at Univ. of
> >>Washington about him possibly working with me, and he mentioned that
> >>he wrote the following himself
> >> http://www.circuitengine.com/
>
> > As a standalone tool, it looks good.
>
> >>He also said he may be interested in GPL'ing it, possibly getting
> >>something based on it into Sage (http://sagemath.org), etc.
>
> > IMHO, there are two distinct issues to address:
> > 1) What benefits would Sage gain from having electronic circuit simulation
> > facilities built into it?
> > 2) Assuming Sage would benefit from circuit simulation, is CircuitEngine
> > a good choice?
>
> > I don't think I'm in a position to offer useful input on the first question.
>
> > As for the second, without denigrating the effort Kevin has put into it,
> > I don't think CircuitEngine has a particularly wide range of features.
> > IMHO, something like SPICE would bea much better choice.
>
> > --
> > Peter Jeremy
>
> First I should state my first degree was in electrcal and electronic
> engineering. Subsequent degree were in related areas.
>
> Sage's mission statement is to be a viable alternative to the MATLAB,
> Mathematica, Macsyma and Maple.
>
> A look at the toolboxes for MATLAB shows there are a number related to
> circuit simulation
>
> http://www.mathworks.com/products/product_listing/
>
> Particulary
>
> SimElectronicshttp://www.mathworks.com/products/simelectronics/
>
> RF Blocksethttp://www.mathworks.com/products/rfblockset/
>
> So in some ways that might mean we should add such a tool to
> Sage.However, if there are better developed tools available for free,
> it would seem a little pointless to me to be reinventing the wheel. I
> personally would not consider using the tool shown - I don't think it
> is anywhere near as good as many free offerings. Without simulation of
> active devices, it will not compare favourably with ther tools.
>
> As I said earlier, Mathematica used to have a tool 'Nodal' but it
> appears no longer developed. (FWIW, if you look on the Mathematica
> newsgroup, many complain they can't make any reasonable about of money
> from selling Mathematica add-ons). The BIG plus for that tool was it
> could solve things symbolically. So if you drew two resistors in
> parallel, it could tell you the resistance was R1 R2 / (R 1 + R2),
> without you needing to put numeric values on R1 or R2. Such a tool is
> no doubt of less interest to most electronic engineers, who just want
> to simulate their circuit. For them, using one of the many more
> complete free tools is better.
>
> But for reserach purposes, symbolic results is a niche interest area
> and one where I feel Sage could be a 'must have' tool. But for general
> circuit simulation, I believe the tool shown is too limited.
>
> Would the oriiginal author of CircuitEngine be interested in
> substituing his numeric solving for symbolic solving? In that case,
I have been very interested in implementing symbolic solving.
> there is little need to stick to any standard like SPICE, as there are
> few if any tools able to do that.
>
> If someone had the MATLAB toolbox and knew how to use it, their views
> would be good. The following a quote from the most similar part of
> Simeletronics's functionality to that of the tool William showed:
> --------------------------
> SimElectronics contains several libraries that enable you to
> incorporate electronic components into your model. Many types of
> transistors (such as JFET, NPN, PNP, and MOSFET) are included to let
> you include nonlinearities and high-frequency dynamics associated with
> these components. Models of integrated circuits, such as op-amps,
> enable you to design and verify circuits for analog amplification and
> control, such as a PID controller. The passive components library
> extends the basic Simscape library with models of devices such as
> variable capacitors and variable inductors which can be used for
> modeling custom components, such as sensors. A library of
> SPICE-compatible elements offers models of electronic components that
> use industry-standard SPICE parameters. It is also possible to include
> temperature dependence in your design using the SPICE-compatible
> elements.
> ----------------------------
>
> Note the emphasis on SPICE. That's a must-have on any numeric based tool.
>
> For a symbolic tool, I'm not sure if SPICE would support it anyway.
>
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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