I disagree. See, what i'm not getting is how is it impossible to tell good stories from kirk's younger days and not please old and new fans? As I said, the characters in this movie are likeable. The Federation had major conflicts with the Klingons back then: they could have detailed a battle with them. Kirk's dad could have been shown being a hero--but living--and the story could have taken place in the original timeline. We could have seen Kirk at the Academy in the original timeline and still shown the Kobayasha test---no need to change the timeline. Spock's battle with Logic and emotion was well detailed in the OS--why is a timeline change needed to showcase that? (although his overt feeling up of Uhura is completely wrong). The construction of the Enterprise could have been shown in the original timeline. They could have focused on a major event from Kirk's time serving on starships as a young officer, and crafted an event there that would lead Starfleet Command to say "let's give this young guy a ship of his own".
The Romulans, Klingons, Tholians, Andorians, Vulcans, Orions are just some of the species they could have showcased. You know, the movies to this point have all made changes, from the look of the Klingons, to the time travel angle of "First contact", which had repurcussions showcased in "Enterprise". And we the fans accepted those. I see no reason why Abrams and company could not have worked within the framework of a forty-year franchise, told a story that was basically true to that history, and given it some tweaks. the new ship, the greater emphasis on action, the addition of a bit more humour--all could have been done in an OS story that was faithful to that universe. For example, they could have crafted a danger to Vulcan on the same scale, and had Spock have to work with a young Kirk to save his planet. They could have clashed over Logic vs. Kirk's cowboy attitude, but learned they have potential to work together. McCoy and the others could have been brought in, maybe some already on an Enterprise commanded by Pike. Maybe Kirk could have taken over command of the Enterprise because Pike is injured or something. Don't know, but I really do feel it's some combination of laziness and dismissal they didn't try to stay in the OS. I've looked at this from a million angles, and there are too many books, comics, movies, and series that have tweaked the franchise in time. abrams could have done the same, but I honestly feel he just didn't want to. The only thing I can say to this is, if I were given control of the Star Wars franchise, and rewrote its history to eliminate the silly aliens, the bad science, and make it darker and more inteligent, how would fans react? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Worf" <hellomahog...@gmail.com> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 4, 2009 2:06:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 They could do that in part two but I doubt it. There is a general disregard of the past shows that shows all over the movie. I think what they really wanted to do is strip it bare and start over again. I don't think it is possible to please the original fans and make new ones with material that has been around for over a generation. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Rogue < n1ro...@aol.com > wrote: I just showed it, Star Trek, to my roommate. He loved it. I liked it as well. I feel that the timeline needs to be restored some how. I mean in DS9 and especially Voyager there was an episode where there was guys 500 years in the future that were watching the time line. Captain Braxton and crew. Then in Enterprise there was another group watching the time line as well. In Voyager every time when Janeway would take too long in the bathroom or even thought about messing with the time line they were there. The question is why hasn't that been done with this time line. Which was screwed from the beginning. I mean even Spock should have known that. --Lavender If all truths were knowable, then all truths are in fact known. From: Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:58 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 Ha-ha! Will make this quick. I've seen "Star Trek" four times now, and my feeling remains the same. It's an enjoyable movie, fast-paced, nice FX, likeable cast, good casting for the iconic roles. But it still ain't the same Trek. The white interior of the ship, the "warp" drive where you can't see normal space (Star Wars' hyperspace), the timeline shift, the randy, emotional Spock, the strange changes such as everyone knowing about how Romulans look when Kirk is still a young guy, Kirk becoming captain directly out of the Academy, with no time served in Starfleet--it's all a bit too dumbed down for me. It appears to be what it is: Star Trek done by guys who felt the OS was a bit too boring and slow, all of whom love Star Wars. Abrams said he didn't get why anyone would care about the characters in the OS, and wasn't a fan. Writers Orci and Kurtzman are fans of TNG and The Wrath of Khan. None of these guys--none of them--is a fan of the OS, DS9, or the aspects of Trek that represent great writing, intelligent plots, and good acting. All are fans of the more action oriented, whiz-bang, FX, humourous aspects of Trek. The writers said on the DVD, "Star Trek is like great classical music, while Star Wars is like rock and roll. We felt Trek needed a bit of rock and roll musica added to it". I like it, don't love it. I still see the changes as unnecessary to the timeline, still say they could have told a million great stories about the young crew, even "hampered" by knowing the future and fans like me who are picky. I still feel the changes were less to be bothered by fans, and more that all simply felt the old timeline was too boring for what they wanted. I'll continue to support this new Trek, but will continue to prefer the stuff that's come beore, and hope against hope that someday the franchise goes back to the "real" universe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey de Morsella" < tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:24:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 I just edited out the Star Trek reference from my reply and you put it back in. J From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:59 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 yeah, Tracey mentioned that. I've never read the book, so don't have the comparison. I guess it's like people who've never watched Star Trek loving the new movie. :) (couldn't resist!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Baxter" < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > To: "SciFiNoir2" < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 3:39:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Baxter" < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > To: "SciFiNoir2" < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 3:39:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 Keith, your last statement, regarding the movie being rushed, is probably a proper assessment. I'm thinking that it's my love of the book is what pushes me against the movie. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik Keith, your last statement, regarding the movie being rushed, is probably a proper assessment. I'm thinking that it's my love of the book is what pushes me against the movie. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 05:41:52 +0000 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 05:41:52 +0000 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 You know what? I didn't hate "Jumper". It was weak, for sure, but there was a lot to like about it. My wife and I saw it with a crowd on a Saturday night, and had no regrets. Sure, Sam Jackson overacted, they didn't really explain why his group felt Jumpers were an abomination in God's eyes. Hayden Christenson is not exactly a scintillating actor, which was a big problem. The script was a bit spare, the movie too short, and some key things left unfulfilled. (ringing endorsement, eh?!) But all that being said, it was still an enjoyable time waster. The jumping was good, and the possibilities only hinted at here are limitless. In some ways it reminds me of the first X-Men movie, which, while defintely way better in comparison, was also a bit rushed, light on plotting, and curtailed in storytelling. I'm thinking that, like X2, maybe Jumper 2 can round off those rough edges and show the promise I saw and enjoyed in the first. I have no evidence of this at all, but the first flick seemed to be one of those put together after studio/director wrangling, budget issues, rewrites, and a rushed shooting schedule. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Baxter" < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > To: "SciFiNoir2" < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >, cinque3...@verizon.net , ggs...@yahoo.com , cdemorse...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2009 3:53:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 But all that being said, it was still an enjoyable time waster. The jumping was good, and the possibilities only hinted at here are limitless. In some ways it reminds me of the first X-Men movie, which, while defintely way better in comparison, was also a bit rushed, light on plotting, and curtailed in storytelling. I'm thinking that, like X2, maybe Jumper 2 can round off those rough edges and show the promise I saw and enjoyed in the first. I have no evidence of this at all, but the first flick seemed to be one of those put together after studio/director wrangling, budget issues, rewrites, and a rushed shooting schedule. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Baxter" < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > To: "SciFiNoir2" < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >, cinque3...@verizon.net , ggs...@yahoo.com , cdemorse...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2009 3:53:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 Let's all channel these thoughts... "Mister Liman... 'Jumper 2' is CRAP... move back to 'Bourne'..." "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ; cinque3...@verizon.net ; ggs...@yahoo.com ; cdemorse...@yahoo.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:48:29 -0800 Subject: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:48:29 -0800 Subject: [scifinoir2] Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4: Paul Greengrass quits Bourne 4 he slow development of the fourth Jason Bourne flick took another hit today as director Paul Greengrass - a man as intricately linked to the films as star Matt Damon himself - walked out on the project in a row over the script. Details are still sketchy, but it would appear that Greengrass wasn't happy when Universal brought in up-and-coming writer Josh Zetumer to work on a 'parallel' screenplay for the film, rewriting the one already penned by Ocean's 12 's George Nolfi. Greengrass has already been under pressure from Universal over the way he's handled the budget on the forthcoming Green Zone , which has suffered reshoots and a $150 million pricetag. http://mos.totalfilm.com/images/p/paul-greengrass-quits-bourne-4-00-420-75.jpg If Greengrass has left Bourne 4 for good (and it's early days yet - he could be lured back), Damon could well decide to remain loyal to him and refuse to shoot with anyone else. Pure speculation, of course, but Greengrass has made the franchise his own and it's hard to imagine anyone else swinging in to the rescue. Unless, that is, Bourne Identity director Doug Liman fancies a break from Jumper 2 and mourning his cancelled Knight Rider TV reboot... Without Greengrass, will Bourne be the same? Should Damon stick by his side? Sound off below... Details are still sketchy, but it would appear that Greengrass wasn't happy when Universal brought in up-and-coming writer Josh Zetumer to work on a 'parallel' screenplay for the film, rewriting the one already penned by Ocean's 12 's George Nolfi. Greengrass has already been under pressure from Universal over the way he's handled the budget on the forthcoming Green Zone , which has suffered reshoots and a $150 million pricetag. http://mos.totalfilm.com/images/p/paul-greengrass-quits-bourne-4-00-420-75.jpg If Greengrass has left Bourne 4 for good (and it's early days yet - he could be lured back), Damon could well decide to remain loyal to him and refuse to shoot with anyone else. Pure speculation, of course, but Greengrass has made the franchise his own and it's hard to imagine anyone else swinging in to the rescue. Unless, that is, Bourne Identity director Doug Liman fancies a break from Jumper 2 and mourning his cancelled Knight Rider TV reboot... Without Greengrass, will Bourne be the same? Should Damon stick by his side? Sound off below... http://www.totalfilm.com/news/paul-greengrass-quits-bourne-4?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+totalfilm%2Fimdbnews+%28Total+Film+IMDb+aggregate%29 Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift. Click here to download. -- Bringing diversity to perversity for over 9 years! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
