Re: [313] loops/lock grooves
I've wondered about this myself. The outer perimeter of a record is much greater than the inner, yet both hold the same amount of information. Does that mean the quality of the sound reproduction is better on the outer grooves? Original Message Follows From: "Joshua M. Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: <313@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: [313] loops/lock grooves Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:32:45 -0400 i agree that the needle always travels at the same velocity, the record is always turning at 33-1/3 rpms. but the circumference of a locked groove at two different positions on the record will be different lengths. traveling the same velocity on each of these grooves, one will be longer than the other. imagine a needle on the outside edge, every revolution it will cover about 31 inches. on the inside edge, it will cover about 12.5 inches per revolution. now if these are both played at the same velocity, your going to have to find the correct place at which a 133+1/3 rpm loop can be placed on the record. cheers. -- Joshua Hill - [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 3045997 / aolim: mandlebrot314 www.ai-studio.com/josh - homepage www.hillhaus.com - detroit cyberia www.ai-studio.com - curator -- - Original Message - From: "joe beuckman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [313] loops/lock grooves > >on the outside, the record has a larger diameter. played at 33-1/3 rpms, > >you > >could play a locked groove with less bpm. on the inside, it is smaller and > >you could play more bpm. i mean, the difference in circumference is like 19 > >inches! (2pi5 - 2pi2). maybe i'm just wrong. > > a common misconception... > this is like saying time passes more quickly on a large wall clock than on a > pocket watch. the rpm (angular velocity) of the turntable is independent of > the tone arm's position (radius.) > > mechanics! > > for philosophy, see jeff mills' rings of saturn. > :) > > jb > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] Rick Wade (was Alan Oldham comics...etc,etc)
Fair enough. I respect Rick Wade's right to play what he likes and the music he was playing on the night I saw him wasn't bad, it just wasn't great. The thing that struck me, though, with him and the others I mentioned, is the disparity between what they produce and what they play. I would have thought that what freaked Rick Wade was music similar to the stuff he produces. And he really wasn't playing that. It was like he was playing music he thought the crowd would appreciate. But maybe you're right, and actually he likes the filtered disco loops as much as (or more) than the deeper house but given there's such a glut of the looptracks doesn't see it necessary to make those tracks himself. Thank christ I say. Cheers Rol Original Message Follows From: "Giles Dickerson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: rol leider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Rick Wade (was Alan Oldham comics...etc,etc) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:30:38 -0400 I think you're assuming too much about the responsibility of a dj to you the individual. I've known Rick for a while and I can only shed this light on the subject. He's a house freak, not unlike myself, and he plays what freaks Rick Wade, not what he thinks any given crowd might like. DJ'ing to me is just an opportunity to do what freaks us out for the public. When we play, we play a mix of whatever's freaking us out at the time. I'm sure Rick was just doing his thing and it just wasn't the right thing for you at the time. Ever hear Sneak play? He's one of my absolute favorite dj's and producers, he's all about the filtered loops, but to me the way he does it, the way he plays, it freaks me. I don't think so much about it, it's just doing it for me at the time. There are other producers I love too, they play all original cuts, that freaks me too. it's just a matter of any given moment, sometime sour "moments" aren't in sync, what can you do? -Giles. / http://www.flatplastic.com rol leider wrote: > I heard Rick Wade not so long ago and was very disappointed at his selection > of what was ninetenths generic discoloops with only an occasional deep house > track like the stuff he produces thrown in. What is it with these dj's who > play such different music to what they produce? I had similar experiences > with Stacey Pullen and Derrick May. It seems like they don't trust the crowd > will get the deep and challenging tunes, and instead stick with safe and > easy discoloops. When I see someone like Derrick Carter that's what I > expect; but with the Detroit dj's I expect more. And I'm not just whinging, > because I have definitely been treated to the pure and true stuff before: > Jeff Mills and Claude Young come to mind. Maybe it's just the house dj's who > aren't confident that the deepness is enough > > Cheers > > Rol > > Original Message Follows > From: "Batory, Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > ...Rick subsequently blew me away that night - best set of house I've heard > in a long, long time. With respect to the local DJs who complemented Rick > perfectly and made the whole night the most enjoyable I've had for ages. > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] Rick Wade (was Alan Oldham comics...etc,etc)
I heard Rick Wade not so long ago and was very disappointed at his selection of what was ninetenths generic discoloops with only an occasional deep house track like the stuff he produces thrown in. What is it with these dj's who play such different music to what they produce? I had similar experiences with Stacey Pullen and Derrick May. It seems like they don't trust the crowd will get the deep and challenging tunes, and instead stick with safe and easy discoloops. When I see someone like Derrick Carter that's what I expect; but with the Detroit dj's I expect more. And I'm not just whinging, because I have definitely been treated to the pure and true stuff before: Jeff Mills and Claude Young come to mind. Maybe it's just the house dj's who aren't confident that the deepness is enough Cheers Rol Original Message Follows From: "Batory, Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ...Rick subsequently blew me away that night - best set of house I've heard in a long, long time. With respect to the local DJs who complemented Rick perfectly and made the whole night the most enjoyable I've had for ages. Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] techno books
What were dj's doing in the 1800s? Original Message Follows From: "Chloe Sasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... Dj Culture - Ulf P Amazing book about the history of the DJ from the 1800s up to now Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
From: Elliot Taub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You're getting ahead of me. Don't forget Jeff Mills got his start in an Industrial band (the name of which escapes me at the moment... --> Final Cut And before we have this argument--again--I think the last few hundred times we had it we concluded that techno draws its inspiration from multiple and disparate sources; inluding disco, Euro pop, jazz, industrial, funk, et cetera. As to which has had the most influence, I can't imagine us ever reaching agreement on that... Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Finns?
I've been told by different people that both Luomo (aka Vladislav Delay) and Farben are Finnish. This true? If so, they must be adding something funny to the water over there. The recent Luomo releases on Force Tracks and the Farben releases on Klang have given the minimal house sound a push in a deep and interesting direction. Beautiful techno sounds with a shuffling house vibe. Fantastic stuff. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Nightime World Volume II
I heard a few tracks in the record store today of Robert Hood's Nightime World Volume II. Anyone heard the whole thing and prepared to offer a review? The tracks I heard sounded lovely. I understand the album's only being released on cd. What is it with this cd only thing? (Though I'm really happy to see a few track from Aril Brikha's Deeparture of Time appear finally appear on vinyl). Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] a chord, a string and a pad
Okay, I think I knew what a chord (from my childhood year or two of piano lessons) and string were: though actually I wasn't sure that a string literally referred to a string. Is a string a digitally synthesized sound that resembles a string? or actually a sample of a string? And I'm still not entirely sure that I understand what a pad is. A prolonged ambient sound is my understanding of the answers I've got. Can a chord or a string be a pad? I'm being a pedant, but the reason I want to know is that the music I like is often described as having deep chords, delicate strings and lush pads. I just want to be sure I know what people are talking about. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
a chord, a string and a pad
A question for all the gear people on the list. I've read these terms lots, and feel like I know what they mean, but I'm not positive that I really do. What is: 1) a chord 2) a string; and 3) a pad? I'm sure that the question sounds stupid to some, but if you don't ask Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] Pooley's Quiet Daze?
A_Zed wrote: Why would it be so that if you liked that track initially, and you found out it was by someone whom you would not rate it would change your view of it? I won't change my mind: the bottom line is that 'November' is a fantastic track, with deep chords and perfectly fragile bass line. I just wonder if I would have given it the same chance had I known it was by Pooley. Would have been my loss though, I agree. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] Pooley's Quiet Daze?
In a message dated 4/06/00 1:33:05 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kind of goes to show how much opinions (well, mine at least) are swayed by knowledge of who the artist is, because I'm sure if I knew 'November' was by Pooley I wouldn't have liked it so much. And A_Zed wrote: Why so? Pooley is an amazing artist (especially his earliest works). Though I would really like factual confirmation that Quiet Daze is actually Pooley himself. And I say: I think hes done some okay stuff, but as someone mentioned earlier he exhausted himself with a million and one sounds like Pooley remixes. Lost a little credibility in my eyes. November is a surprising change, no? And I wrote: I know the thing to do is judge the music on it's own merits, but I'm being honest: it's hard not to be influenced by all the stuff external to the track: the artist, the label, the artwork, etc. All this stuff sets up expectations before the music kicks in. And A_Zed replied: That's a pity because you are probably limiting yourself to great music due to extraneous preconceptions. Im human and subject to the shades of influence thrown at me (most of it intentionally thrown my way: labels and artists go to lots of effort to create an environment around the actual music, through graphic design, track names, etc). Come on, dont be holier than thou and claim you can divorce yourself entirely from all but the music, even if that should be the aim. Who hasnt bought a record on the basis of who the artist was and on what label only to find a few listens later that the ep was actually pretty ordinary? And I guess Ian Pooley has produced a track or two that stands up. Well you obviously haven't heard his material on Definitive records, or those amazing records by his moniker Space Cube and TNI with his co-producer Thomas Gerlach. SpaceCubes Richie Hawtin mix of Pure Tendency on TNI/R&S stands out as one of the best techno records of those days. Ian Pooley is part of the seminal techno movement out of Frankfurt (though he is really from Mainz) that includes Alec Empire, Khan & Walker and Thomas Heckmann. Meaning hes produced more than a good track or two? Fair enough, your opinion entirely. I do remember, though, playing Two Space Cowboys on a Bad Trip until the grooves wore thin :> Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Pooley's Quiet Daze?
Someone mentioned a digest or two ago that Quiet Daze is Ian Pooley. I'm a little shocked by this: the 'November' track on the Time:Space compilation is probably my favourite, but Ian Pooley?... Kind of goes to show how much opinions (well, mine at least) are swayed by knowledge of who the artist is, because I'm sure if I knew 'November' was by Pooley I wouldn't have liked it so much. I know the thing to do is judge the music on it's own merits, but I'm being honest: it's hard not to be influenced by all the stuff external to the track: the artist, the label, the artwork, etc. All this stuff sets up expectations before the music kicks in. And I guess Ian Pooley has produced a track or two that stands up. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Beyer's homage to D
2-bit review of Conceiled Project: Definition of D: Svek Conceiled Project is Adam Beyer (not so well conceiled) in house mode. Four tracks, all holding back from that compressed techno format hes got down, and instead putting forward the compressed funky house vibe. Think Adam Beyer on Svek and thats what youve got. The pick for me is the b1 track (none have names): funky drums with a scatty female vocal (of the whey hey hey type) and the cleanest of crispest production. Interesting that he puts out his definition of D on Svek. . . . [And on another note, does anybody else think Lido Hotel is the album of 2000 (to June at least)?] Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
sorry Alan
So this is my final word on the topic I helped to inflame; and that's sorry. Sorry to everyone on the list for the injection of negativity into the warmglowing DEMF vibes, and sorry to Alan for laying the boot in when you were obviously feeling a little hurt. The intent of the post was to open discussion on whether the hard minimal Detroit vibe has a future in the city, but the effect was a stupid attack on Alan. The post was provocative and unsubstantiated by anything that might be called fact. And yeah, I haven't been to Detroit and can't pretend to know what's going in the city. It's still producing brilliant innovative music though; just different to stuff of the past (which I guess is the definition of innovative). Thanks to Steve Lammers for a long and heartfelt post pointing out the huge debt lots of people owe Alan Oldham for all he's done for the music he loves. (And a slightly less articulate one from Kelley Hackett, who I thought had been delisted) Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Alan I wrote that first post when drunk and it's a little over-the-top opinionated, and yes, coloured by the fact I made assumptions about what you play when I haven't heard you play (which I will when I get the chance because I've only heard good things). I stand by the main thrust of the post though, which is that the sound now associated with Detroit has changed substantially. You acknowledge that when you say "if some of the stuff I've been hearing is present-day Detroit, I'll stay in the past with the old Derrick May/Juan Atkins/Mad Mike/Jeff Mills blueprint, thanks". That's what I was getting at; trying to provoke discussion, I guess, in the light of all that's happening at DEMF. No slight was intented when I made the comment that musically you seem more aligned with Europeans like Beyer and Carola (I've heard both and they've both been fucking excellent) than the current wave (fourth?) of Detroit producers. So *is* there such a thing as a Detroit sound anymore? Anyhow, I'll be quiet now: my posts hang like dark clouds in the sunny vibes of DEMF. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
My post has been interpreted as an attack on Alan Oldham, which I didn't mean it to be (the 'stuck in a groove' comment is regrettable). I read Alan's manifesto and I posted in the same straight style he used. (I trust a big shoot-from-the-hip man like Alan will not be offended by the small words of a small Scot like myself). I just wanted to open discussion on what Detroit means now as a sound. The subsequent posts have been unanimous in their attack on me, saying Detroit means all things and nothing in particular (a broad chuch), and Alan is as much a part of it as anyone else. But it didn't used to be like that. Detroit used to mean something much more precise (and Alan was definitely a part of that). That's why we're all on this list, right? We all know 'Detroit' refers (or at least used to refer) to something in music, even if we can't say exactly what that is. It just seems to me that Alan is now closer to present day Europe than he is to present day Detroit (musically speaking, and I don't see that as an insult. I remember him posting something to that effect a few months ago). And with the DEMF happening it's as good a time as any to discuss what exactly it is that Detroit means right now. If it means anything at all. But what do I know... Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Alan I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself (and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped to pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of Detroit kept moving on. I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit sound circa 2000. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) adam beyer in detroit
It's pretty silly dividing dj's into European and American. There's good and bad in both. Granted, my favourite dj moments have been provided by Americans, but I've seen some excellent European performers: I just saw Herbert lay down a very solid set Saturday night. I've seen Beyer twice and thought he was pretty good. He does what he does: hard techno. I'm sure if you asked he'd tell you he's been inspired by the usual Detroit suspects. It's really stupid to throw him in with the Eurotrance cheesemeisters. And talking about Herbert, he put on a great live show before he dj'd. Hard to tell what he was doing exactly. He had Dani Siciliano on vocals, and someone (whose name I can't remember) on keyboards, and he was running back and forward between a whole lot of equipment, throwing live samples into one of three microphones then running back to his sampler and doing silly stuff with it. He was doing the same sought of thing with Dani's vocals. She would sing fairly straight into one of the microphones, get her voice sampled in another and then in the third I think Herbert was running her voice through a bunch of effects. It looked a little chaotic, but everything played smoothly. I think the backing drums were running off a DAT, because all the tracks were discrete, rock and roll style, with room for applause before the next kicked off. Anyway, there's a European doing some innovative stuff. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) vocals and whatnot
Actually, I don't think the webportal has diversified into releasing work by underground UK producers. Metacrawler was (obviously?) meant to be Meta...I've typed www.metacrawler.com a few too many times. Sorry 'bout that: it's a good record though. Original Message Follows The new metacrawler (number 10) has both James Ruskin and Oliver Ho floating a female vocal over funky techno drums. A friend thought the sample was familiar: anyone? Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) vocals and whatnot
The new metacrawler (number 10) has both James Ruskin and Oliver Ho floating a female vocal over funky techno drums. A friend thought the sample was familiar: anyone? Cheers Rol Original Message Follows From: The Deliverator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [snip] On a completely different trip, I was wondering if anyone out there could recommend some good techno with *tastefull* vocal samples. I really like the mills' style of vocal use in 'if'- the vocals are there, but are treated like any other instrument. They don't overpower the song. [snip] Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) Books (was rough guide to techno)
Would that be the Ewan Pearson who records as Maas for Soma? I remember picking up a record of his that had on it a Zoyd and Prairie mix: a reference to characters in a Thomas Pynchon novel. Pynchon's a pretty weird and difficult postmodern author, and the reference made me think Ewan Pearson must be a well-read kind of a guy. If the Discographies book's by him, would suggest he's quite the renaissance man. Cheers Rol Original Message Follows From: "Dissonance Electronic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Books (was rough guide to techno) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 03:25:21 WST While books are in issue i'd like to recommend a book i picked up from the music library at uni. It's a brand new book but from a major publisher so it shouldnt be to hard to track down. Its called "Discographies : dance music, culture and the politics of sound" By Jeremy Gilbert and Ewan Pearson.(Published: London ; New York : Routledge, 1999.) And I cant do it justice in a short description but its a critical / theoretical / cultural approach to many of the issues involved in dance music (which in their definition includes house, techno, soul,disco hip hop etc). Their analysis draws on contemporary critical theory using the work of Barthes, Kristeva, Derrida, Foucault et al. (while it utilizes these thinkers the book is always careful to explain the ideas that they are drawing on - you dont have to go and read the thinkers to understand the book) Its not a history but a very sophisticated analysis of the the role of music and dance music in particular in western culture. Of particular interest was a section where they looked at some of the reasons why western culture is so resistant to dance music. Its quite academic but very rewarding - i dont find it arrogant or pretensious either but i have some experience with this sort of writing. I'd recommend it to any one who is interested in 'dance music' in the broadest sense of the word. Its also very applicable to experimental electronic music. Any one who wants some more info feel free to email me. Peace Josh Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) paul mac on ognaku
Maybe that should read Ongaku... Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
paul mac on ognaku
The new Paul Mac on Ognaku is damn damn fine. Four beautiful tracks. So what's his story? I gather he's British, and I think he has something to do with Stimulus (owner?). Any other recommended releases? These German labels are really setting the pace for deep house and techno. Not only are Perlon, Kompakt, Playhouse etc putting out some great German stuff, but also seem to inspire the foreigners to rise to the deepest of heights. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
