Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Two Questions Before I buy a Transporter

2008-05-10 Thread amcluesent

The 'effects loop' feature was added in FW40 (the nightly beta now has
FW42). See the sticky on FW40.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Timing Jitter question

2008-05-10 Thread adamslim

A most succinct and balanced reply.  The only thing I want to add is to
point out that if your DAC has a clock out then you can slave the
Transporter to it, which should reduce jitter to almost zero, although
is probably not quite as low as the 'internal' Transporter system.

Oh plus the standard health warning:

WARNING: The audibility of jitter in the low picoseconds is disputed. 
Other factors may affect sound quality.  This thread may self-destruct
in ten seconds.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Two Questions Before I buy a Transporter

2008-05-10 Thread Eric Seaberg

I don't think the Transporter can 'loop' the way you want to.  Why not
just take the output of the Z-Sys into your system, or do you not have
a D/A out from the Z-Sys?


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Two Questions Before I buy a Transporter

2008-05-10 Thread CraigS720

I have a Z-systems digital equalizer. Is there anything preventing me
from taking the digital out of the Transporter, feeding it to the
equalizer, then back into the dac of the Transporter?  

And question two and much less important :-),

Which do you like better - the silver or black Transporter? My other
equipment is some of both.

Thanks.

Craig


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Timing Jitter question

2008-05-10 Thread lork

You are quite correct- I think the term I should have used was
"adaptive" rather than "asynchronous".

Much appreciate both the very complete (& helpful) answer and also the
lack of flaming over my ignorant/incorrect use of the term.

Best-

Neil


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Give you a good recommendation

2008-05-10 Thread jxlwxl001

Associate our values with the different pharmaceuticals & you will be of
the same mind that our markdowns are unmatched




http://www.aaa-pharmacyonline.com


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Timing Jitter question

2008-05-10 Thread seanadams

Right, what Dave said.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Timing Jitter question

2008-05-10 Thread DCtoDaylight

lork;300871 Wrote: 
> Normal USB-DACs don't- they run "asynchronously", with a PLL to keep the
> output bitrate at a speed that matches the incoming packet rate, so that
> the buffer never over- or under-runs. This results in timing jitter, as
> the PLL servos the output frequency back & forth to accommodate the
> not-very-precisely-timed computer packets.
I'm afraid you have this backwards.  The whole idea of an asynchronous
interface is that there is NO connection between the incoming data
rate, and the outgoing.   An asynchronous interface does not require a
PLL, and if properly implemented, will not transmit jitter from the
incoming stream to the outgoing.  

A SPDIF connection is synchronous, and requires a PLL to extract the
clock from the data stream.  This type of interface has the potential
for noise and jitter in the incoming data stream to affect the PLL's
output jitter.

lork;300871 Wrote: 
> It would appear that the Slim system could get around this, since they
> have their own hardware & software. Hence there would be no real need
> for re-clocking equipment between the Slim device and your DAC, since
> the real culprit in timing jitter is that asynchronous feed & PLL
> follower, not the inherent jitter on the oscillator (which is usually
> extremely low).
The Slim system is totally asynchronous.  The data arrives in packets
over the ethernet, and is loaded into a memory buffer, and then clocked
out by the main system clock (which is not a pll). When the buffer gets
low, the hardware requests a new packet and thus ensures it never runs
out.  As such, the total jitter is the sum of the Crystal controlled
clock, and the associated clock distribution (pcb traces, glue logic
etc), which can be tightly controlled.  

While this holds true for the slims internal DAC, as soon as you go
outboard, via the SPDIF interface, your external DAC must use it's
clock recovery circuit and PLL to re-generate the clock.  So the
potential for increased jitter exists once again. 

Is a re-clocker required with an SB3?  I'd say no, it's inherent jitter
is very low, so unless your external DAC has a poorly designed clock
recovery circuit, it shouldn't be necessary.  The jitter from a
transporter is even lower, but it's DAC is very good, so there's little
reason to go outboard.  

Cheers,   Dave


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs

2008-05-10 Thread Lectric Larry

Just tried to upgrade to todays build.  The firmware loaded with no
problems, but, the web interface was completely whacked. Went back to a
version from 10 April and everything is fine.  Should I completely
uninstall Squeezecenter, prefs, etc. before upgrading to the nightly
builds?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs

2008-05-10 Thread Rob Stone

I successfully updated to 7.1 and FW42.  Volume control and noise
problems solved!  However, if I am listening the to Music
Library>Playlists/selected song and then decide I want to listen to a
CD via the digital inputs>BNC Coax S/PDIF, making that selection, still
no problem.  When, I want to return to the selection in the Music
Library>Playlists, going back through the menu, I arrive at the
original selection and hit play, the display shows the selection "now
playing", but I continue to hear the digital input.  I have not found a
way to switch from the digital input to any other source.  The only way
I can get to another input is to power the unit off from the remote. 
Turn it back on, hit play and then I can hear the selection from Music
Library.  I am hoping that I am failing to do something to get the unit
to switch inputs, but so far, if that is the case, I haven't been able
to figure it out.  Any help appreciated.

Rob Stone


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Timing Jitter question

2008-05-10 Thread lork

Hello-

A Slim Devices salesperson suggested I post this question, in hopes
someone who knows (& has time- apparently their engineers are quite
busy) can answer for all to read.

The question is: does the Slimserver, or other Slim hardware/software,
have a feedback chain from the hardware (that puts out the S/PDIF) to
the server (which sends the music stream to the hardware)?

Normal USB-DACs don't- they run "asynchronously", with a PLL to keep
the output bitrate at a speed that matches the incoming packet rate, so
that the buffer never over- or under-runs. This results in timing
jitter, as the PLL servos the output frequency back & forth to
accommodate the not-very-precisely-timed computer packets.

It would appear that the Slim system could get around this, since they
have their own hardware & software. Hence there would be no real need
for re-clocking equipment between the Slim device and your DAC, since
the real culprit in timing jitter is that asynchronous feed & PLL
follower, not the inherent jitter on the oscillator (which is usually
extremely low).

Can anyone tell me if the Slim system works this way? If it does, I'll
be in line with my $$ right away. I am particularly interested in the
equipment other than the "Transporter", since I already have an
excellent DAC & really just want a jitter-free S/PDIF output for it.

Thanks to any who can post the answer (especially if it's Sean Adams,
who the salesperson says reads this forum & knows the answers)-

Neil

PS: if the answer is "yes, Slim has hardware-to-software feedback so
that they need no PLL", then you should put this in your product
info/advertising- for audiophiles, it is a huge deal. If I knew this to
be true, I'd already have ordered one (maybe more) & be telling my
friends.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Modifying the Squeezebox 3

2008-05-10 Thread krochat

rhyno138;300850 Wrote: 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have good advice on how to safely remove the caps so that
> the solder pads don't come up with them? 
> 
> many thx
> rhyno

Fry's carries Quik Chip - it worked well for me.

http://www.chipquikinc.com/

\http://shop4.frys.com/product/2644632

(Says sold out online so check a store).

Regards,
Km


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Modifying the Squeezebox 3

2008-05-10 Thread Pat Farrell
rhyno138 wrote:
> does anyone have good advice on how to safely remove the caps so that
> the solder pads don't come up with them? 

You are trying to hack surface mount stuff?
Did you not see the giant "thar be dragons" warning?

Of course real men can fix the solder pads. :-)
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Analog sound Xbox 360 vs SB3?

2008-05-10 Thread pablolie

as far as audiophile music delivery goes, i'd recommend using an
external high quality DAC anyhow. many high end CD players will allow
you to feed in digitally into the DAC, and i have always applauded Slim
Devices for that design decision. excellent as it is for the price, i
think expecting the built-in DACs in SB3 or SBR to perform up to the
level of equipment that costs over 10X more optimistic - albeit
possible, it all depends on one's preferences.

i have just bought a new SB3 and the Duo, and shall compare them - but
i always feed them via optical IF into my Accuphase CD's DAC, either
because it is better or simply because i got used to its sound over the
years - in any case, i prefer it, and i very much doubt the SB3 or SBR
will sound any different given that.

why do i prefer optical? clean separation, no grounding issues to ever
look into.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Modifying the Squeezebox 3

2008-05-10 Thread rhyno138

i saw in the original mod that one is to replace the original caps w/ a
4.7uf, 50v and simply wire from there to the RCA outputs.

here's the rub: when i tried to remove the stock caps (shown in green
circles of the pic), i throw the solder pads they're attached to. its
like the pads pull off the board when i try to pull the caps out, which
makes it impossible to solder anything back onto the board where the
original caps mounted. (i really fouled my first when i threw the
traces on the board as well). 

does anyone have good advice on how to safely remove the caps so that
the solder pads don't come up with them? 

many thx
rhyno


+---+
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+---+

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why no Nightly 7.1 "Bin" File

2008-05-10 Thread lstern

I apologize for asking again but I do not understand why no nightly Bin
files are posted. I require this format for my Infrant Nas. 
Thanks for any feedback.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs

2008-05-10 Thread lstern

i would like to install 42FW but no Bin file is posted. I require the
Bin file for my Infrant NAS.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs

2008-05-10 Thread Phil Meyer
I have upgraded to FW42.

I can't seem to play any digital input.  I have a CD player connected through 
RCA COAX, but I've tried playing all digital inputs.  The Now Playing screen 
says playtime 00:00.

With FW40, I was hearing a few beeps and splutters, but also no music.

BTW, I also tried playing digital sources from the initial setup connection 
menus.  Also at this level I noticed some new "Text Viewer" menu - is this some 
form of debug setting htat has been left in by accident - looks like 
localisation text strings.

Phil
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Analog sound Xbox 360 vs SB3?

2008-05-10 Thread bigbwb

Bob,

Thanks for the clarification between the 2 units.  So are the
"audiophiles" saying the SB3 is better than the SBR or vice versa?

As for the oppo 980, I love it so far.  I came from owning the 970
also.  I have used it for both SACD, DVD-A, and CD's.  The osund is
very good and the DAC's do a great job considering its price point.  I
will be using it for Multi ch music via HDMI to my yamaha 2600 receiver
and its analog outs into my 2 ch pre-amp.  I think the differences
between these oppos and higher end CD players would be very small and
difficult to hear.  You have to pay alot in order to get that last few
percent of sonic bliss, probably:)

Later,
Brandon


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs

2008-05-10 Thread xand1x

Rob Stone;300668 Wrote: 
> Downloaded latest/7.1 Mac OSX Disk Image and installed successfully and
> did the firmware update on the transporter, but I am still at FW40. Any
> help will be appreciated. Obviously, I'm missing a step or two here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rob Stone

It's in the May 10th 7.1 nightly!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Analog sound Xbox 360 vs SB3?

2008-05-10 Thread morris_minor

bigbwb;300554 Wrote: 
> What is the difference between the classic & new SB?  The site only
> shows the classic now anyway with burr brown DACS as you mentioned. 
> Has the newer unit took a step down in any way?
> 
> I may try to score a deal on a used one to save a few bucks too:)
> 
> Thanks!
> Brandon

Though the DACs are different in the SB3 and Receiver, the boxes have
been designed to sound pretty similar - ie very good. The Receiver is
really just a different form factor for people who don't need a display
on the box and want the the functions provided by the controller. 

So, no, the newer box is in no way a step down. I would suggest you
base your choice on your needs - unless your system and your ears are
ultra sensitive, IMO you wouldn't hear a different between SB3 and SBR.
[Others in the Audiophile forum may beg to differ :o)]

Cheers,
Bob


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