[freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Steve Dougherty wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 04/28/2012 06:56 PM, Zlatin Balevsky wrote: > > In Gnutella we observed that long-lived nodes tend to be better > > connected and that they also cluster with other high-uptime nodes. > > If the same is true for Freenet it's a good idea to keep an eye for > > side effects as you tweak the behavior. > > Good to know - I'll look for that. Are there any particular effects > you had in mind? The Metropolis-Hastings correction in the new probes > should produce a fairly uniform distribution of endpoints despite > clustering and well-connected nodes, but explicitly simulating the > effects of high uptime could be helpful. > > It occurs to me that the probe requests I hope to depreciate allow > reconstructing the actual network topology - perhaps we could run > simulations on top of it? The new probe requests are currently planned > to not report degrees or link length distributions, [1] which as far > as I can tell would mean no way to reconstruct the network as measured > in simulation. Does it seem reasonable to omit the ability to gather > such information? > > > On 04/28/2012 03:51 PM, Michael Grube wrote: > > Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix? > > The simulation generates the graph in a way which effectively sort of > assumes darknet: it assigns locations, then iterates over the network > and connects nodes based on link length. [2] [3] I'm working under the > assumption that when using the same degree distribution as the network > is measured to have this is an accurate enough approximation. I will > include these and similar plots in this week's progress report. > Ah, ok. You're making a Kleinberg Small World graph. Nice. > > My understanding is that a more thorough simulation of darknet would > randomly assign locations and reassign them with the location-swapping > algorithm used in Fred. Right. Funnily enough, the swapping algorithm is most concisely described in the Pitch Black paper. I'd suggest that as a reference for quick implementation. > I think simulating opennet would be more work > both to implement and to run, as it would mean implementing > path-folding and randomly assigning locations and connections. > No doubt about that. Just curious. I did some work involving some very simple probes, but it was more of a theoretical simulation. We'll see how close theory matches reality I guess ;) Thanks for answering. > > [1] https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3568 > [2] > > https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L139 > [3] > > https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L52 > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPnxsCAAoJECLJP19KqmFu+dsP/RsSyAcQEqqFM3UDjdlTtMBd > EtBWQ/7mfsLnZ4D3aHGZ1yV4F2jpU5T6ZVEcP520gwZ1fz7k+Yl4AVZYMyE0Ixbu > HiSGeoAQeyAJs+znhg+svKvIrcUzr6i2N6/1D3iZPZl8s//dXNtOfr5zfsoh3wrB > k7T5BmCBEGEIru4Z33EsMkVDTzJ8fy17fZew1MKfOs1HlBUr3hIrz4b/IlbxUprb > 0SMosb/cc5W+pRM0d6nVlYn3vMgW/IHFTF2wFQGcd2oC9eE1RJ7J6CvsaVnjG1k+ > MRv0nCQoVxztQ3CUS8Apkzb/SFpRcJFBist/hyCkL8eCHE8fjblisthRGZaoBN8d > aqcQw57xeRPJwdmZGWw6e/gMOTVVa44XlhuKiOap0iQSctWsG1rcpXA824VshasU > JDfMAiz67L/7QQ1q/zLAC22PPpxfliS+k4A+OF/4QQLeZ+3dfkpgg9LEzphVVOwH > nXw0/d8mg+i+dUir4irq15nharbiNtDbLAmVJYW+KnfVQIvVOl+4ZcIL9j4EanzK > egEMlm8y4y+tQYR2TsPhqrnrNax8lspqz6fp1H7dMm0aLxF/edBHE/m2C1xZ2tX0 > 7NpD4Hx7jV7qCFD86kxc1dbYZpgYh5i0BOWBjc+bLGY4gyO1cGJOLU8jknCmZ1vV > QDdK7+1G24/xn9Ju/Y9h > =GBrm > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20120430/784a7aaa/attachment.html>
[freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/28/2012 06:56 PM, Zlatin Balevsky wrote: > In Gnutella we observed that long-lived nodes tend to be better > connected and that they also cluster with other high-uptime nodes. > If the same is true for Freenet it's a good idea to keep an eye for > side effects as you tweak the behavior. Good to know - I'll look for that. Are there any particular effects you had in mind? The Metropolis-Hastings correction in the new probes should produce a fairly uniform distribution of endpoints despite clustering and well-connected nodes, but explicitly simulating the effects of high uptime could be helpful. It occurs to me that the probe requests I hope to depreciate allow reconstructing the actual network topology - perhaps we could run simulations on top of it? The new probe requests are currently planned to not report degrees or link length distributions, [1] which as far as I can tell would mean no way to reconstruct the network as measured in simulation. Does it seem reasonable to omit the ability to gather such information? On 04/28/2012 03:51 PM, Michael Grube wrote: > Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix? The simulation generates the graph in a way which effectively sort of assumes darknet: it assigns locations, then iterates over the network and connects nodes based on link length. [2] [3] I'm working under the assumption that when using the same degree distribution as the network is measured to have this is an accurate enough approximation. I will include these and similar plots in this week's progress report. My understanding is that a more thorough simulation of darknet would randomly assign locations and reassign them with the location-swapping algorithm used in Fred. I think simulating opennet would be more work both to implement and to run, as it would mean implementing path-folding and randomly assigning locations and connections. [1] https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3568 [2] https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L139 [3] https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L52 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPnxsCAAoJECLJP19KqmFu+dsP/RsSyAcQEqqFM3UDjdlTtMBd EtBWQ/7mfsLnZ4D3aHGZ1yV4F2jpU5T6ZVEcP520gwZ1fz7k+Yl4AVZYMyE0Ixbu HiSGeoAQeyAJs+znhg+svKvIrcUzr6i2N6/1D3iZPZl8s//dXNtOfr5zfsoh3wrB k7T5BmCBEGEIru4Z33EsMkVDTzJ8fy17fZew1MKfOs1HlBUr3hIrz4b/IlbxUprb 0SMosb/cc5W+pRM0d6nVlYn3vMgW/IHFTF2wFQGcd2oC9eE1RJ7J6CvsaVnjG1k+ MRv0nCQoVxztQ3CUS8Apkzb/SFpRcJFBist/hyCkL8eCHE8fjblisthRGZaoBN8d aqcQw57xeRPJwdmZGWw6e/gMOTVVa44XlhuKiOap0iQSctWsG1rcpXA824VshasU JDfMAiz67L/7QQ1q/zLAC22PPpxfliS+k4A+OF/4QQLeZ+3dfkpgg9LEzphVVOwH nXw0/d8mg+i+dUir4irq15nharbiNtDbLAmVJYW+KnfVQIvVOl+4ZcIL9j4EanzK egEMlm8y4y+tQYR2TsPhqrnrNax8lspqz6fp1H7dMm0aLxF/edBHE/m2C1xZ2tX0 7NpD4Hx7jV7qCFD86kxc1dbYZpgYh5i0BOWBjc+bLGY4gyO1cGJOLU8jknCmZ1vV QDdK7+1G24/xn9Ju/Y9h =GBrm -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Steve Dougherty wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 04/28/2012 06:56 PM, Zlatin Balevsky wrote: > > In Gnutella we observed that long-lived nodes tend to be better > > connected and that they also cluster with other high-uptime nodes. > > If the same is true for Freenet it's a good idea to keep an eye for > > side effects as you tweak the behavior. > > Good to know - I'll look for that. Are there any particular effects > you had in mind? The Metropolis-Hastings correction in the new probes > should produce a fairly uniform distribution of endpoints despite > clustering and well-connected nodes, but explicitly simulating the > effects of high uptime could be helpful. > > It occurs to me that the probe requests I hope to depreciate allow > reconstructing the actual network topology - perhaps we could run > simulations on top of it? The new probe requests are currently planned > to not report degrees or link length distributions, [1] which as far > as I can tell would mean no way to reconstruct the network as measured > in simulation. Does it seem reasonable to omit the ability to gather > such information? > > > On 04/28/2012 03:51 PM, Michael Grube wrote: > > Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix? > > The simulation generates the graph in a way which effectively sort of > assumes darknet: it assigns locations, then iterates over the network > and connects nodes based on link length. [2] [3] I'm working under the > assumption that when using the same degree distribution as the network > is measured to have this is an accurate enough approximation. I will > include these and similar plots in this week's progress report. > Ah, ok. You're making a Kleinberg Small World graph. Nice. > > My understanding is that a more thorough simulation of darknet would > randomly assign locations and reassign them with the location-swapping > algorithm used in Fred. Right. Funnily enough, the swapping algorithm is most concisely described in the Pitch Black paper. I'd suggest that as a reference for quick implementation. > I think simulating opennet would be more work > both to implement and to run, as it would mean implementing > path-folding and randomly assigning locations and connections. > No doubt about that. Just curious. I did some work involving some very simple probes, but it was more of a theoretical simulation. We'll see how close theory matches reality I guess ;) Thanks for answering. > > [1] https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3568 > [2] > > https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L139 > [3] > > https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L52 > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPnxsCAAoJECLJP19KqmFu+dsP/RsSyAcQEqqFM3UDjdlTtMBd > EtBWQ/7mfsLnZ4D3aHGZ1yV4F2jpU5T6ZVEcP520gwZ1fz7k+Yl4AVZYMyE0Ixbu > HiSGeoAQeyAJs+znhg+svKvIrcUzr6i2N6/1D3iZPZl8s//dXNtOfr5zfsoh3wrB > k7T5BmCBEGEIru4Z33EsMkVDTzJ8fy17fZew1MKfOs1HlBUr3hIrz4b/IlbxUprb > 0SMosb/cc5W+pRM0d6nVlYn3vMgW/IHFTF2wFQGcd2oC9eE1RJ7J6CvsaVnjG1k+ > MRv0nCQoVxztQ3CUS8Apkzb/SFpRcJFBist/hyCkL8eCHE8fjblisthRGZaoBN8d > aqcQw57xeRPJwdmZGWw6e/gMOTVVa44XlhuKiOap0iQSctWsG1rcpXA824VshasU > JDfMAiz67L/7QQ1q/zLAC22PPpxfliS+k4A+OF/4QQLeZ+3dfkpgg9LEzphVVOwH > nXw0/d8mg+i+dUir4irq15nharbiNtDbLAmVJYW+KnfVQIvVOl+4ZcIL9j4EanzK > egEMlm8y4y+tQYR2TsPhqrnrNax8lspqz6fp1H7dMm0aLxF/edBHE/m2C1xZ2tX0 > 7NpD4Hx7jV7qCFD86kxc1dbYZpgYh5i0BOWBjc+bLGY4gyO1cGJOLU8jknCmZ1vV > QDdK7+1G24/xn9Ju/Y9h > =GBrm > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/28/2012 06:56 PM, Zlatin Balevsky wrote: > In Gnutella we observed that long-lived nodes tend to be better > connected and that they also cluster with other high-uptime nodes. > If the same is true for Freenet it's a good idea to keep an eye for > side effects as you tweak the behavior. Good to know - I'll look for that. Are there any particular effects you had in mind? The Metropolis-Hastings correction in the new probes should produce a fairly uniform distribution of endpoints despite clustering and well-connected nodes, but explicitly simulating the effects of high uptime could be helpful. It occurs to me that the probe requests I hope to depreciate allow reconstructing the actual network topology - perhaps we could run simulations on top of it? The new probe requests are currently planned to not report degrees or link length distributions, [1] which as far as I can tell would mean no way to reconstruct the network as measured in simulation. Does it seem reasonable to omit the ability to gather such information? On 04/28/2012 03:51 PM, Michael Grube wrote: > Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix? The simulation generates the graph in a way which effectively sort of assumes darknet: it assigns locations, then iterates over the network and connects nodes based on link length. [2] [3] I'm working under the assumption that when using the same degree distribution as the network is measured to have this is an accurate enough approximation. I will include these and similar plots in this week's progress report. My understanding is that a more thorough simulation of darknet would randomly assign locations and reassign them with the location-swapping algorithm used in Fred. I think simulating opennet would be more work both to implement and to run, as it would mean implementing path-folding and randomly assigning locations and connections. [1] https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3568 [2] https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L139 [3] https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L52 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPnxsCAAoJECLJP19KqmFu+dsP/RsSyAcQEqqFM3UDjdlTtMBd EtBWQ/7mfsLnZ4D3aHGZ1yV4F2jpU5T6ZVEcP520gwZ1fz7k+Yl4AVZYMyE0Ixbu HiSGeoAQeyAJs+znhg+svKvIrcUzr6i2N6/1D3iZPZl8s//dXNtOfr5zfsoh3wrB k7T5BmCBEGEIru4Z33EsMkVDTzJ8fy17fZew1MKfOs1HlBUr3hIrz4b/IlbxUprb 0SMosb/cc5W+pRM0d6nVlYn3vMgW/IHFTF2wFQGcd2oC9eE1RJ7J6CvsaVnjG1k+ MRv0nCQoVxztQ3CUS8Apkzb/SFpRcJFBist/hyCkL8eCHE8fjblisthRGZaoBN8d aqcQw57xeRPJwdmZGWw6e/gMOTVVa44XlhuKiOap0iQSctWsG1rcpXA824VshasU JDfMAiz67L/7QQ1q/zLAC22PPpxfliS+k4A+OF/4QQLeZ+3dfkpgg9LEzphVVOwH nXw0/d8mg+i+dUir4irq15nharbiNtDbLAmVJYW+KnfVQIvVOl+4ZcIL9j4EanzK egEMlm8y4y+tQYR2TsPhqrnrNax8lspqz6fp1H7dMm0aLxF/edBHE/m2C1xZ2tX0 7NpD4Hx7jV7qCFD86kxc1dbYZpgYh5i0BOWBjc+bLGY4gyO1cGJOLU8jknCmZ1vV QDdK7+1G24/xn9Ju/Y9h =GBrm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
