RE: [gentoo-user] OT - Sending mail to a program

[Dave Nebinger]

> Here is my code:
> 
> #include 
> using namespace std;
> 
> int main (int argc, char* argv[])
> {
>ofstream out;
> 
>out.open("/root/test.data");
> 
>for (int x = 0; x < argc; x++)
>   out << argv[x];
>out.close();
>return 0;
> 
> }
> 
> It works fine from the command line, but when I try to send mail to it
> the file isn't written...

You're probably looking at a permissions problem.  Sendmail (and other
mailers) typically run as non-root.  Therefore when you are trying to open
/root/test.data it's probably failing miserably, throwing an exception, and
bailing.

Try changing to /tmp/test.data and see what happens.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Duplicate posts from "John Lowell" on the Digest

[Dave Nebinger]

> Why people use "Reply to all" on a list such as this I have no idea...

Because the standard for most lists is that a reply goes to the original
sender only and 'reply to all' is used to send a message to the OP and the
list.

The gentoo list is the only one that we have seen that violates this policy
because our admins feel that w/o replying to the list knowledge would be
lost.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] ssh authentication wierdness

[Dave Nebinger]

> The other problem that was confusing everything is still a problem though.
> When I start the machine the /etc/init.d/sshd script doesn't start
> sshd,  /etc/init.d/sshd restart doesn't work and /etc/init.d/sshd status
> tells me that sshd is running when it isn't .  I have to /usr/sbin/sshd
> manually, after which the script works properly.

1. kill sshd
2. remove /var/lib/init.d/started/sshd
3. rc-update add sshd default to ensure it is started when the system comes
up.
4. /etc/init.d/sshd start to restart the daemon.

That should fix the remaining issues.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!

[Dave Nebinger]

> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!
> 
> On Apr 1, 2005 8:39 AM, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:10:00 +1200 Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > | I say again, no other list I am on exhibits this problem, just bloody
> > | change it back the the way it used to be, right, wrong or debateable
> > | in technical terms. what is easiest and most convenient for the
> > | majority of users, and causes the least annoyances, is the "right"
> > | config
> >
> > gentoo-user is the only list where that change was causing problems.
> > None of the other lists are having problems with it. I wonder why?
> 
> April Fool's Joke? Because we user's are stupid? ;-)

Obviously.  That's why you're still posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

How many times do people need to be told to not post to that address before
it sinks in?



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Bug reporting questions

[Dave Nebinger]

> OK.
> 
> What does CHOST do?

It's the basis for the hosting architecture.  By defining it as 686 it (plus
the right CFLAGS) is supposed to optimize compiles for your platform.

> OK.  What does -pipe do?
> 

Gcc will build intermediary files to pass between the internal components
(i.e. the preprocessor, compiler, assembler).  -pipe causes gcc to instead
pass the contents via a pipe and eliminates the need to create and write a
file plus open and read on the next tool in the chain.

> You're right, didn't have nptl defined...  (non posix threads ?)

It's still posix threads, but I think the acronym is more like 'next posix
thread library' or 'new ...', but I'm not sure.

> But before I begin, if something unexpected and interesting happens I
> won't lose my system will I?

Possible, but that's why I preceded the previous message with the NOTE at
the top.  Still it would be recoverable (might need to work from the live
cd).  But again you'll have the right solid foundation to build the system
from.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo for the Windows NT Kernel

[Dave Nebinger]

>   http://gentooexperimental.org/nt/
> 
> Nah!

It's got to be an april fool's joke...


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Bug reporting questions

[Dave Nebinger]

NOTE: Making the changes I suggest below may impact your system (especially
by changing the CHOST).  If you choose to make them be sure to "emerge
--emptytree system" at least and probably the world as well.

> My make.conf has
> CHOST="i386-pc-linux-gnu"

use CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"

> CFLAGS="-O2 -mcpu=i686 -fomit-frame-pointer"
> 
> Clearly -mcpu=i686 is depreciated.  What -march setting is good?
> 

use CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium4 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"

> How does -fomit-frame-pointer effect the compilations?

It removes the frame pointer from the execution stack.  As one method calls
another, a frame pointer would normally be put on the stack to assist in
debugging.  However, it uses space that is not normally needed for a
production build, which is why it is omitted.

> I don't put -O[3-6] because I read that gcc doesn't always define such
> optimizations it falls back to -O2.  Also, I don' t know if any of the
> higher optimizations are experimental or not.

Stick with -O2 as it is the safest bet.

> I've emerged glibc about 4 times already.  I remember a similar error
> occured a while ago but was fixed by a subsequent release.

The toolchain is the critical part of any unix system; a misconfig on one of
the components can crop up in all kinds of weird and funky places at weird
and funky times.

I'm also going to guess that you do not have the nptl use flag defined in
make.conf; if you do not, add the nptl use flag as the nptl threads
currently receive more development support than the older threads.  With
your P4 they will have a better performance profile as well.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Won't emerge -uDvp world

[Dave Nebinger]

> Anyways, I emerge synced, which went fine, but when I try
> to pretend to emerge -uDvp world to see what it's going to install, I get
> the error about missing /etc/make.profile and check symlink. What does
> this mean and what can I do about it? Are those the emerge options I
> should be using for this?

Possibly your /etc/make.profile is invalid, quite possibly because the
emerge --sync process removed the older profiles.  Re-create the link to a
valid profile from /usr/portage/profiles.  I've included my link for your
reference...

winux root # ls -l /etc/make.profile
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 48 Jan 28 19:45 /etc/make.profile ->
../usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2004.3

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Bug reporting questions

[Dave Nebinger]

> I'm getting an error with sys-libs/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1:
> 
> #ifdef ERROR_MESS
> 
> i386-pc-linux-gnu-gcc localealias.c -c -std=gnu99 -O2 -Wall -Winline
> -Wstrict-prototypes -Wwrite-strings -mcpu=i686
> -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -fPIC -g0 -O99 -fomit-frame-pointer
> -D__USE_STRING_INLINES -I../include -I.
> -I/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-
> linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl
> -I.. -I../libio
> -I/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-
> linux-gnu-linuxthreads
> -I../sysdeps/i386/elf -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386
> -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux
> -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/pthread -I../sysdeps/pthread
> -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix/sysv -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix
> -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/i386 -I../libidn/sysdeps/unix
> -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386 -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux
> -I../sysdeps/gnu -I../sysdeps/unix/common -I../sysdeps/unix/mman
> -I../sysdeps/unix/inet -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv/i386
> -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv -I../sysdeps/unix/i386 -I../sysdeps/unix
> -I../sysdeps/posix -I../sysdeps/i386/fpu -I../sysdeps/i386
> -I../sysdeps/wordsize-32 -I../sysdeps/ieee754/ldbl-96
> -I../sysdeps/ieee754/dbl-64 -I../sysdeps/ieee754/flt-32
> -I../sysdeps/ieee754 -I../sysdeps/generic/elf
> -I../sysdeps/generic-nostdinc -isystem
> /usr/lib/gcc/i386-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.3-20050110/include -isystem
> /usr/include -D_LIBC_REENTRANT -include ../include/libc-symbols.h -DPIC
> -DSHARED -D'LOCALEDIR="/usr/share/locale"'
> -D'LOCALE_ALIAS_PATH="/usr/share/locale"' -o
> /var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-
> gnu-linuxthreads/intl/localealias.os
> -MD -MP -MF
> /var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-
> gnu-linuxthreads/intl/localealias.os.dt
> -MT
> /var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-
> gnu-linuxthreads/intl/localealias.os
> `-mcpu=' is deprecated. Use `-mtune=' or '-march=' instead.
> loadmsgcat.c: In function `_nl_init_domain_conv':
> ../sysdeps/i386/bits/string.h:655: error: can't find a register in class
> `GENERAL_REGS' while reloading `asm'
> make[2]: ***
> [/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-
> linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl/loadmsgcat.os]
> Error 1
> make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
> make[2]: Leaving directory
> `/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/glibc-2.3.4/intl'
> make[1]: *** [intl/subdir_lib] Error 2
> make[1]: Leaving directory
> `/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/glibc-2.3.4'
> make: *** [all] Error 2
> 
> !!! ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1 failed.
> !!! Function toolchain-glibc_src_compile, Line 237, Exitcode 2
> 
> #endif
> 
> I define
> $ARCH='~x86'
> 
> What product do I select when reporting this bug on Gentoo bugzilla?
> Should I just send an email directly to the glibc maintainer?

You should not do either of these things.  First you should fix your CFLAGS
to remove the -mcpu flag and replace with the appropriate -march value.

Secondly, since you're using -mcpu=686 yet gcc appears to be i386 based, I
would guess that your system setup from the ground up is poorly set up.

If you're still in the early stages of the system build, I'd suggest
starting over with valid CFLAGS; trust me, having a solid foundation ensures
that you'll end up with a stable gentoo box when you're done.

If the system has been operational for awhile, then I think you should count
yourself lucky, not emerge the glibc update, and keep your misconfigured box
running as it is.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!

[Dave Nebinger]

> I don't think 'fixing' is likely to happen as this discussion happens
> frequently. It mostly boils down to the list handling being correct but
> some clients seems to behave incorrectly.
> 
> Personally, I'd prefer if the clients handle lists properly.

As would we all.  But the truth of the matter is that for this list I'd bet
we could find at least 10 different client programs being used, and the
chances of getting them all repaired any time soon are the same as M$
open-sourcing windows xp.

More importantly, I don't think it is specifically a client issue.  I am
very careful to look at my to: and cc: values before posting; the to: always
reads gentoo-user@gentoo.org and the cc: only has a targeted individual if I
feel that there's relevant information that person needs.

That said, I still see many of my posts duplicated on the list, often with a
significant time-lapse between the dups (i.e. 30 minutes).

Sure, it's one thing to say that the mail list admins want to adhere to the
correct standards, but it's quite another to annoy so many of the
subscribers as to chase them off, defeating the purpose of having a mailing
list at all.

We've got folks generating procmail rules and all kinds of other crap just
to handle the fact that, under the current configuration, tons of dups are
now coming through.

I admire the list admins for wanting to adhere to the standards, but at this
point in time it is probably too late in the game to do so.

Please please please bring back the old mailing list config...



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

[Dave Nebinger]

> Well after I updated gcc I run the updatescript and this script merges
> some pacage (portage gcc-config distcc linux-headers etc..) so gcc was
> working when i updated the system to 2005.0 else I will received an
> error.. (at least i suppose so :-)
> 
> locate output this:
> Mjolne spetznaz # locate crt1.o
> /usr/lib32/Mcrt1.o
> /usr/lib32/Scrt1.o
> /usr/lib32/crt1.o
> /usr/lib32/gcrt1.o
> /usr/lib64/crt1.o
> /usr/lib64/gcrt1.o
> /usr/lib64/Mcrt1.o
> /usr/lib64/Scrt1.o
> 
> so i don't think crt1.o is the issue.

Well, ld is the one complaining, perhaps it's the issue...


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] portage and package specific CFLAGS

[Dave Nebinger]

> There may not be nothing wrong with it, but it is nevertheless almost as
> crappy way to do it. This is because the next time the package with custom
> CFLAGS gets updated as part of a world/system update, it will be emerged
> with the default CFLAGS again...

In these cases it is better to manage the package yourself rather than let
portage do it for you.  Set yourself up in freshmeat.net and you can receive
email notifications when the package is updated.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] sometimes internet works only after /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restar

[Dave Nebinger]

> # during boot ##
> Mar 31 15:31:31 [kernel] NET: Registered protocol family 10
> Mar 31 15:31:31 [net.agent] add event not handled
> # guess this line is the problem #
> Mar 31 15:32:07 [dhcpcd] timed out waiting for a valid DHCP server
> response_
> # guess this line is the problem #
> # during boot ##
> # manual restart of the script #
> Mar 31 15:32:09 [su(pam_unix)] session opened for user root by
> antonio(uid=1000)
> Mar 31 15:32:25 [kernel] eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x41E1
> Mar 31 15:33:45 [dhcpcd] terminating on signal 2_
> Mar 31 15:33:47 [kernel] eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x41E1
> Mar 31 15:33:56 [dhcpcd] terminating on signal 2_
> Mar 31 15:34:02 [rc-scripts] ERROR:  "net.eth0" has not yet been started.
> Mar 31 15:34:08 [kernel] eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x41E1
> Mar 31 15:35:31 [su(pam_unix)] session closed for user root
> # manual restart of the script #

Looks to me like eth0 is coming up fine, from the perspective that it is
active.  But since the dhcp is failing, you aren't getting a valid ip
address and that gives the appearance that the network is not up.

> Is it possible to tell dhcpd to wait longer for a response, or eaven
> retry automatically in periodic time intervals if not succesfull ?

Yep.  Check the man pages and it should tell you what options to put in your
config file.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] sometimes internet works only after /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart

[Dave Nebinger]

> You could also try setting up ifplugd.  If nothing else, it would allow
> your users to reset the network by removing and reinserting the network
> cable.

That's not something I'd let *my* users do  ;-)


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] sometimes internet works only after /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart

[Dave Nebinger]

> Sometimes [about 1 in 3 times] my internet connection does not work
> directly after booting. After restarting the net.eth0 script all is
> fine. As this behavour is rather new to me, and this is a bit annyoing
> [particullary for people without root access] i would like to know if
> someone has had similar problems and/or any ideas .

Anything in the system logs?  Any errors reported by dmesg?

Any failures of net startups would be identified in one of those two places.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

[Dave Nebinger]

> The advice was:
> rm -f /usr/lib32
> ln -s ../../emul/linux/x86/usr/lib /usr/lib32
> FEATURES=-sandbox emerge gcc
> 
> This fix the update off gcc problem. (but i am wondering it may break
> somting else?)

Well probably you lost your /usr/lib32's file crt1.o file.  Bummer.

If you remember what the old /usr/lib32 link was you might be able to copy
it back to /usr/lib32.

To properly repair your system you should probably re-emerge glibc now that
gcc is functioning again, but you'll need to get by the missing crt1.o file
before you'll be able to do that.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Error compiling showimg

[Dave Nebinger]

> Is there any way to see what libraries hare linked to library?

ldd is your friend...


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Error compiling showimg

[Dave Nebinger]

> grep: /usr/kde/3.3/lib/libkio.la: No such file or directory
> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/kde/3.3/lib/libkio.la: No such file or directory
> libtool: link: `/usr/kde/3.3/lib/libkio.la' is not a valid libtool archive
> 
> I have kde 3.4, but he tries to compile with a library from kde 3.3 that
> is not there. What is wrong?

Check /etc/ld.so.conf and see if /usr/kde/3.3/lib is in it.  If so, change
it to reflect 3.4, then run ldconfig and try compiling again.

My guess is that even though the -L/usr/kde/3.4/lib is provided to libtool
the linker is finding a match in the cache and is trying to use that one.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] moving /usr to different partition

[Dave Nebinger]

> > As to whether to move all of /usr or just parts of /usr, I have separate
> > partitions for /usr/local and /usr/portage but leave /usr on the root
> > partition.
> 
> Okay. I can live with that, if I know it's possible. I just need a little
> extra space, as the disk use approaches 90%. Moving /usr/local should be
> fine then.

You should be safe moving anything that is not relied upon before the
remaining filesystems are mounted, i.e. /usr/X11R6, /usr/kde {perhaps gnome
is installed in the same way but I'm not sure}, /usr/qt, etc.

That said, the /usr portion of the filesystem should remain pretty static
once your system is constructed.  For the most part updates will replace
what's already there, so you may be safe in leaving it float around the 90%
usage limit.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Re: On-topic, possible mailing list issue

[Dave Nebinger]

> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Fish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how two copies of my email

You should not be posting mail to robin.gentoo.org, just
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] moving /usr to different partition

[Dave Nebinger]

> I want more space under /, so I tried to move /usr to a different
> partition - and (IIRC) had a 'failure to unmount the initrd' on boot...
> and no boot.
> 
> So, is there a safe way to do this?

/usr is a little tricky because it will usually have open processes on it.
You can move /usr to a new partition as you have done with /opt, but you'll
need to do it from the live cd.  That's going to be the only way you can
delete the old /usr folder structure.

1. boot from live cd.
2. create new partition for /usr if you haven't done so already.
3. mount your current root partition.
4. cd to where your root partition is mounted, i.e. /mnt/gentoo.
5. tar cvfp usr.tar usr
6. mount your new partition, say /mnt/usr.
7. cd /mnt/usr
8. tar xvpf /mnt/gentoo/usr.tar
9. /bin/rm -rf /mnt/gentoo/usr /mnt/gentoo/usr.tar
10. edit /mnt/gentoo/etc/fstab to mount your new partition as /usr.
11. reboot and enjoy.

As to whether to move all of /usr or just parts of /usr, I have separate
partitions for /usr/local and /usr/portage but leave /usr on the root
partition.

Partitioning is really up to you to determine how to set things up.  I don't
know if it is still the case, but I come from those years where filling up
the root partition meant that you couldn't boot into the system, so I try to
isolate those areas that could possibly grow w/o my knowing it and keep them
off of the root partition (i.e. especially /home, /var{/tmp}, and /tmp).



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] cyrus-sasl-2.1.20 error

[Dave Nebinger]

> > What's wrong with "emerge cyrus-sasl"?
> 
> emerge cyrus-sasl fails.

How about posting a transcript of what is actually going on?

Have you tried sync'ing since this started?  If it was a temporary fluke
there may be a new or updated ebuild to fix it.

And just because the emerge fails doesn't mean the fallback position is to
attempt to use the ebuild command itself.  A failure of the emerge step
usually indicates something else is wrong, not necessarily the current
package.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] cyrus-sasl-2.1.20 error

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Yeah, but why are you trying to use ebuild to
> > install the package in the
> > first place?  Did emerge choke on it?  Do you need
> > custom configure script
> > options?  Having that background will help to figure
> > out how to complete the
> > task it seems you're trying to do...
> 
> Being a newbie, I assumed it was better to use ebuild
> since there are pre and post install function to be
> run and then updating the list of packages installed
> on the system say i wanna run qpkg -l cyrus-sasl ..
> etc  instead of just doing make install and then
> search for where the files went.
> 
> If I am going about doing something round about way,
> please suggest alternative.

What's wrong with "emerge cyrus-sasl"?


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: On-topic, possible mailing list issue: was RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> I received six different copies of Mark's message...

Make that 8 copies now...

Looked at the actual message headers and other than repeats for mailing list
stuff (see below), there's nothing really helpful in identifying the problem
source...

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail.joat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952351549
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:47:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mail.joat.com ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (server [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP
 id 01357-01 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:47:44 -0500 (EST)
Received: from robin.gentoo.org (robin.gentoo.org [140.105.134.102])
by mail.joat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:47:44 -0500 (EST)
Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j2UKeKT6008364;
Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:40:20 GMT
Delivered-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54])
by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j2UKV68l027614
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:31:06 GMT
Received: from gaznet.co.uk (wagner.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.255.243])
by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34396252430
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:31:02 +0100
(BST)
Received: from mail pickup service by gaznet.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
 Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:31:04 +0100
Delivered-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Delivered-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
thread-index: AcU1YQGNSo9CQinyRHu1PsrwO9KE5A==
Delivered-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;s=beta; d=gmail.com;
h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-vers
ion:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references;
b=RCPAxfJuTNn6cjStkxkl6WQdOgn8N8XOW4oAT0L30UqIl7DSAs73iei1/2cm3haaTQRb1jT0Nb
z4N18nLaf50c16fmF1XXU6s28Widv7+96XG7KK7PdPkNw8UtuKvPYjfXBOM70qa1cNQLuduHrsmq
XexC6QNUXHHIDhzXaEeqc=
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:31:03 +0100
From: "Mark Knecht" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B:
command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000
List-Post: ,
, 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
List-Subscribe: 
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail 
X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: ,
, 
List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
List-Subscribe: 
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail 
X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: ,
, 
List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
List-Subscribe: 
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail 
X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: ,
, 
List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
List-Subscribe: 
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail 
X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org
Reply-To: gentoo-user@gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.224
Sender: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2005 19:45:20.0833 (UTC)
FILETIME=[01CE6310:01C53561]
X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent
X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9997
X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.
X-DSPAM-Signature: 424b107119654169036451
X-DSPAM-Factors: 27,
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at joat.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=4 tests=AWL,
 BAYES_00
X-Spam-Level: 



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] cyrus-sasl-2.1.20 error

[Dave Nebinger]

> Well I took the same options ebuild  uses when it ran
> ./configure, i used the same options again. Hence I
> believe the use flags might be retained. I wouldn't
> know until it is installed. A wild swing and try. I
> just want to get over the compile error so that I  can
> compile openldap which has a dependency on this
> package.

Yeah, but why are you trying to use ebuild to install the package in the
first place?  Did emerge choke on it?  Do you need custom configure script
options?  Having that background will help to figure out how to complete the
task it seems you're trying to do...



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On-topic, possible mailing list issue: was RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

Okay, mailing list question...

I received six different copies of Mark's message...

Granted he did cross post to gentoo-user@gentoo.org and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] so I can understand getting two copies, but
six?

No offense to you, Mark, but was this something he did or something that
either the normal list or robin.gentoo.org did?

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Knecht
> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B:
> command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[snip]


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> > > Why does something have to act/look like Windows to be ready for the
> > > desktop.  If that's what you need/want just use Windows already!
> >
> > It's not that the next OS has to act/look like windows to supplant
> windows,
> > it's a question of usability...
> >
> > There's a lot of research that has been done and is ongoing re: user
> > interface design.  So far the research supports the statement that
> "simpler
> > is better" in regards to usability is concerned.
> 
> Here we agree ;) But do your previous points actually work towards this?
> Is a blinking icon simpler than a terse text message? Is a self-updating
> computer simpler than an admin being in charge of updating his own 
> computer? What when it installs something that breaks the system (we all 
> know this can happen...). How many layers of 'simplicity' do we have to 
> wade through to find the real problem? How is navigating through pages of 
> GUI dialogues simpler than a quick edit of a text file?

Is an icon simpler than terse text?  Yes.  And it is seen across more
industries than just the computer industry.  Sewing machines now come with
buttons with images representing the type of stitch rather than using text.
Cars come with idiot lights that have pictures rather than 'service engine
soon' (which is itself an over simplification of a problem with the car
rather than an indication of what the problem is).  We all know a red light
means stop, a green light means go, and the yellow light means speed up
because you're about to get pinned by the red light ;-)  We are beings
designed to work naturally from symbols, signs, and icons; not terse textual
messages.

That's what the research has and is proving out.

> > The replacement for windows will be one that provides a simpler,
> consistent
> > interface, not one that is more complex and requires intimate details of
> > low-level file editing and command prompt access, the current face of
> > linux.
> >
> > I love linux and use it everywhere except my 7 year old daughter's
> computer
> > (granted I could probably do it there too except the sites that she
> likes
> > to use are too dependent upon IE).  And I won't go back to windows, not
> > anytime soon.
> >
> > But I can realistically gauge how much it would take to move
> organizations
> > in the direction of linux and understand where 'linux is ready for the
> > desktop' zealots miss the mark.  Most organizations are looking to cut
> > costs and simplify their infrastructure (again to cut costs).  Linux on
> the
> > desktop won't do that in it's current state and would have to be
> > significantly dumb-downed before it can happen.  I for one am glad it's
> not
> > going in that direction.
> 
> You are implying here that Linux's ultimate goal is to replace Windows. I
> do
> not agree here. I think the two can coexist just fine. Linux for those
> end-users curious enough to go deeper into their computer's innards, and
> Windows for those that want it to 'just work' (innasmuch as windows
> works... :P) without having to learn anything about how it works. The
> server
> market is of course a different matter, but we're talking about desktop,
> right.

That's the wrong assumption.

Basically to say "Linux is ready for the desktop" is in kin to saying that
"Linux is easier to use than windows so it can supplant the current
installation base"; I don't think anyone here can say that with any
sincerity.

I don't think linux is out to (or even could) replace windows.  I do think
it has it's place.  What it's destiny will turn out to be is beyond my
guess.

Most folks, where work is concerned, expect to have the computer 'just
work'.  Your boss wants you to show up at 8 am and be productive for 8
hours, not spend time figuring out the innards (unless that, of course, is
what you're paid to do ;-)

That's the one thing that windows, I hate to say, has - it just works.

> I think a happy medium can be reached with certain distros trying to piece
> together a newbie friendly Linux desktop that moves towards some of the
> point
> you mentioned originally. As I understand it, Xandros and Linspire are
> working towards these ends. I just don't agree with the argument that
> 'Linux'
> in general needs to be more user-friendly. In my opinion (for what it's
> worth) Linux (and UNIX in general) is just fine the way it is. If the day
> comes where I have to point and drool my way through a gui to admin my
> Linux
> box, that is the day I move to FreeBSD... as this is exactly why I left MS
> all those years ago in the first place... the obscurity.

I don't want to see linux/gentoo/freebsd/whatever go in that direction
either.  I'm happy with my gentoo systems and don't want to see them
bastardized to become more like windows.

My argument, however, was to be 'ready for the desktop,' to supplant
windows, requires that they do so.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real
> solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under
> Windows. That's what scares me as a parent.

Heard of squid?  It's only the standard proxy for linux-based systems and
kicks the crap out of net nanny...


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop
> for
> > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad).
> 
> Novell disagrees: [snip]
> 
> AT&T disagrees: [snip]
> 
> Various governments disagree: [double-snip for an nytimes link]
> 
> The tide is turning.

Only if you can't see the hype and hidden agendas of those folks.  Novell
wants you to buy into it to build a consumer base for their own flavor
(which, on the surface, looks and acts a lot like windows).  AT&T is only
testing it out, but basically they're looking to gain some leverage against
M$ in regards to pricing.  Brazil and other third world nations don't really
have the cash that M$ tries to extort from them.

Hype and agendas aside, there is no momentum in the mass market to move from
windows to linux.  I'd be real happy if there was as M$ IMHO is holding back
the development of systems and technology and general innovation, but that's
another thread all together.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> Why does something have to act/look like Windows to be ready for the
> desktop.  If that's what you need/want just use Windows already!

It's not that the next OS has to act/look like windows to supplant windows,
it's a question of usability...

There's a lot of research that has been done and is ongoing re: user
interface design.  So far the research supports the statement that "simpler
is better" in regards to usability is concerned.

The replacement for windows will be one that provides a simpler, consistent
interface, not one that is more complex and requires intimate details of
low-level file editing and command prompt access, the current face of linux.

I love linux and use it everywhere except my 7 year old daughter's computer
(granted I could probably do it there too except the sites that she likes to
use are too dependent upon IE).  And I won't go back to windows, not anytime
soon.

But I can realistically gauge how much it would take to move organizations
in the direction of linux and understand where 'linux is ready for the
desktop' zealots miss the mark.  Most organizations are looking to cut costs
and simplify their infrastructure (again to cut costs).  Linux on the
desktop won't do that in it's current state and would have to be
significantly dumb-downed before it can happen.  I for one am glad it's not
going in that direction.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors

[Dave V]

> >*sigh* I guess I just have to get over the fact that such a simple 
> >oversight has marked me a typical windows user, but seeing as how no one 
> >wants to leave my name out of this, I might as well try to respond 
> >constructively.
> >
> >As has been said, some people, like myself, are just a little newer to 
> >gentoo than others or by sheer dumb luck didn't make all the same mistakes 
> >as everyone else.
> 
> Dave, dear heart, get over yourself. My question was never about you, 
> per se, but rather about a class of users which you represent (which I 
> can't even specify except in extremely broad and general terms), and 
> your issue was just a convenient example of problems that such a class 
> of users can easily encounter.
> 
> And if you want to get all hung up on using the term "typical Windows 
> user" like it's an insult or curse, well, that's your issue, not mine. 
> With Microsoft having some 90% of the computer market, the vast majority 
> of computer users are "typical Windows users", so it better not be an 
> insult or a curse, cause we're way outnumbered.
> 

haha, well I do think of it as an issult to some extent, but consider the issue 
dropped.

> >How do we make it better? We could point out the exact offending file. Or 
> >say that an error was found while parsing config files or init scripts. 
> >There are plenty of things that could be done, but I'm not sure it's worth 
> >the effort in this case as it was just a simple typo that spawned this 
> >whole discussion.
> 
> Anyone can make typos, so this is actually a point of discussion, since 
> it is a common user error that can and has happened to all of us.
> 
> But I still want to know if pointing out the exact offending file (which 
>  normally is what happens, but this is seemingly a special case) would 
> actually be of any use to the "average (migrating) user", because if
> 
> /file/that's/causing/the/problem: where_and: what_the_problem_is
> 
> is not understandable to such a user, then it doesn't matter whether we 
> point out the exact offending file to the user, and if they don't read 
> the error message in the first place due to "cultural" factors, it 
> doesn't matter if the error is displayed or not.
> 

I agree, to many (whether they be typical windows user or linux newbie) the 
extra information would probably not help which is why I said such efforts many 
not be worth developer's effort.

> All I'm asking is why you, as a specific user who did not understand an 
> error message sufficiently to use it to solve your problem, did not 
> understand the error message sufficiently to solve your problem, in 
> order to discover how this and other error messages could be made 
> understandable to you and users similar to you in the future. Other new 
> (to Linux, to computers, to Gentoo) users are more than welcome to 
> submit some data. My ultimate goal is to contribute some assistive 
> resources to help you all over the hump, but I can't do that unless 
> people tell me what assistance they need. I really dislike "non-helpful 
> help".
> 

I thought we already beat the life out of this... I simply didn't make the 
connection from the error message to the problematic file. I recieved the 
message after each emerge. It wasn't until after I submitted my first post that 
I saw the similar error in the initialization scripts. I also fond the error 
message when running env-update. It was a slow process of piecing the clues 
together, so I posted here, but I did try to resolve it on my own first...

> "Error found while parsing config files or init scripts" is definitely a 
> somewhat better clue in this case, even though it doesn't tell you what 
> init file to search, so it may not be as helpful as it looks. So, does 
> this mean that in the specific instance of emerge errors involving 
> depcache parsing, the answer is as simple as "fixing" Portage to produce 
> a "custom" error message for that case somehow (i.e. submitting a bug 
> report for Portage)? That would be something "doable", at least.
> 
> Holly
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

Dave


pgp6o6tqMRgfg.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] Rotating cron files

[Dave Nebinger]

> I would like instead to "enumerate" the two files (starting from monday
> = 1, till friday=5)
> in order to keep a week backup, such as for instance: curve.1.tar.gz ,
> curve.2.tar.gz,
> .. curve.5. tar.gz  and the same for etc
> 
> How can I obtain this result with crontab?

Use "date +%u" to get the day of the week, as in the following:

#crono
WEEKDAY=`date +%u`
/usr/bin/vacuumdb
/usr/bin/pg_dump -C -O -Fc -Upostgres
--file=/root/pg_dump/curve.$WEEKDAY.tar.gz curve
tar -cz /etc > /root/pg_dump/etc.$WEEKDAY.tar.gz


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors

[Dave Nebinger]

> Everyone assumes that "the masses" must have a GUI, because the
> command-line is "too scary" in some way.
> 
> But if the command-line was intuitively understandable, *would these
> users still be scared of it*? Would they continue to avoid Linux, just
> because text is not as "pretty" as icons, even when the text was just as
> "easy to use" as the icons, and the system as a whole had many other
> benefits?
> 
> Maybe, maybe not, but the only way to find out is to *actually try it*--
> and that starts with asking real people who experience problems just
> what those problems were and attempting to determine the problem's root
> cause, so we can find out just what needs to be adjusted to help future
> users cross the gap.
> 
> I'm flatly sick of assuming that the only choices are to turn Linux into
> a Windows clone as a "bridge", or leave the user stranded on the shore
> strewn with "brain-dead junk". Can the gap be forded? Can we teach the
> user to swim? Can we provide a raft-- or wings?

First and most importantly you're ignoring the research that has been done
on user interfaces over the past few years.  It has already been shown that
simplifying the interface to a point and click system is much less error
prone than the free style typing a console interface provides.  For example,
to open a file a user can double click on an icon, three steps (point click
click).  Under the command line a user must type the name of the editor
followed by the filename, and hopefully they get the spelling of each
correct.

The mainframe is entirely text based, and you won't hear more complaints
from a user community than you would from this group of users.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally on your side about things.  I'd love to say
that linux is ready for the desktop and that the general users are ready for
the command line.

And on a small scale maybe it is.  I'm sure you could convert a handful of
users from windows to linux without too much difficulty.

But if you're in a large organization (i.e. 100K employees) or an
organization with limited resources (support and training), the cost of
conversion is significant.  The hiring requirements change when either
asking for folks with experience or expecting that a newhire would not be
available right off because they need training on the new system.

So the only way linux would make an inroads into these types of
organizations would be if it did migrate into a windows clone/bridge, full
of the brain-dead junk we as linux advocates would never like to see come to
fruition.

So maybe you can chalk me up as a pessimist in regards to linux desktop
readiness.  I'm a linux advocate and use it exclusively; you won't take away
my linux until you can tear it out of my cold dead fingers.  Realistically,
however, I cannot see organizations sinking the kinds of significant costs
and efforts it would take to bring them onboard at the current state of
things.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave V]

Much of this is already possible actually. There is certainly nothing that 
can't be automated or configured in gentoo with effort. However, distros like 
Mandrake already hide startup output via splash screen and allow configuration 
of just about everything through KDE and their own tools. I'm pretty sure I've 
seen a redhat setup that almost automatically self updated too. But to disallow 
the manual editting of configuration files would cripple linux as it is known 
today. I'm not sure why that would be a requirement. Anyway, I think linux IS 
ready for the typical desktop user, but I don't think the typical desktop user 
would use gentoo. Gentoo is a power user/administator paradise. But also don't 
forget that the typical desktop user expects that Windows will be preinstalled, 
configured, and ready to use. A preinstalled and configured linux box with 
Mandrake or Ubuntu, would probably work just as well.

On (2005-03-30 08:20), Dave Nebinger wrote:
> > We can't make Linux "better" and "ready for the desktop"-- which does
> > *not* mean we have to do everything via a GUI, dagnabit; people can
> > certainly use the command-line comfortably *if they know how*-- unless
> > we identify where people are falling over it and how to remove the
> > obstacles to their understanding and ease-of-use. Difficulties using
> > error output effectively looks like an obstacle to ease-of-use to me.
> > Heaven knows I won't know what to do about it if I do find an "answer"
> > (or the beginnings of one), unless that answer is "add to the docs", but
> > we all contribute what we can, and asking the question in the first
> > place is what I can :-) .
> 
> Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for
> quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad).
> 
> Because of the wide use of windows any replacement OS (be it linux, bsd,
> macosx, or whatever) would have to function in a similar way before it would
> be accepted.  The following would be a base set of requirements for such a
> replacement:
> 
> 1.  Boot totally into a gui - no startup output.  Those messages are great
> for someone trying to diagnose an issue, but are just confusing to some and
> unnecessary to most, which is why windows boots to gui and totally hides
> this kind of information.
> 
> 2.  Totally configurable via gui - no low-level file editing.  As power
> users this is something that we want/need, but the windows user expects to
> pull up a dialog for the program and click checkboxes to turn things on and
> off.  I can just imagine the dialogs necessary to configure something like
> postfix or sendmail ;-)
> 
> 3.  Less service-oriented and more interactive.  Sure we run ftp servers,
> web servers, mail servers, etc.  And we expect them to go off and do those
> things without bothering us.  But at this point the windows user expects
> visual feedback on everything - a mail icon indicating there's new mail in
> outlook, blinking network light showing network activity, other tray icons
> with menus allowing you to get to the background 'services' right away.
> 
> 4.  Self-updating.  M$ has been pretty poor in this respect but they are
> actively working on it and getting better.  My windows box downloads updates
> automatically, installs them with a nice progress bar (and not a lot of
> detail), and either a) handles whatever is necessary to get the new updates
> used or b) asks me to reboot for the changes to take effect.  The whole
> process is totally brain-dead, and that's what the average windows user is
> going to expect.
> 
> I think all of these things would have to come to pass before linux would
> make it on the desktop, and I'm not sure I believe they will ever happen.
> Nobody wants to take linux in the direction of windows (thankfully), and
> since most of the linux developers are power-users they have no reason to
> want or include this kind of brain-dead junk in their software.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

-- 
A statistician, who refused to fly after reading of the alarmingly high
probability that there will be a bomb on any given plane, realized that
the probability of there being two bombs on any given flight is very low.
Now, whenever he flies, he carries a bomb with him.


pgpJVo7gamniV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] '[Masked]' packages - another newbie question...

[Dave Nebinger]

> Can someone explain (or point me to a document which explains) exactly
> what the implications of the 'Masked' annotation...

Masked means, as you assumed, that it is not considered 'production ready'
under gentoo.  Could mean that it hasn't been fully tested yet, could mean
that there are issues with it, or it could simply mean that it is dependant
upon some other package that is masked for similar reasons.

That said, for most things outside of the sys-* entries I've found it safe
to use masked packages (as long as you don't complain if your system blows
up because you're using them ;-)

> where can I find out what the known problems on gentoo are, what
> considerations are then which should be taken into account when deciding 
> if I really want to risk it or not?

Not sure if this is really documented anywhere.  Masking doesn't mean that
there's necessarily problems with a release, it can mean that it hasn't been
fully tested yet.

> if I do decide I need it, how to I override the mask???

Add the package to /etc/portage/package.keywords in the form:

  x11-libs/kylixlibs3-borqt ~x86




--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave V]

*sigh* I guess I just have to get over the fact that such a simple oversight 
has marked me a typical windows user, but seeing as how no one wants to leave 
my name out of this, I might as well try to respond constructively.

As has been said, some people, like myself, are just a little newer to gentoo 
than others or by sheer dumb luck didn't make all the same mistakes as everyone 
else.

For the record the error was in /etc/conf.d/hdparm (not where a place anyone 
suggested). Now I dare ask... is there any reason that commands are being 
executed in in a configuration directory? Yes, yes, I suppose there could be 
uses for every line in the config files to be treated like regular bash code, 
but logically command not found error should not occur in a configuration file 
unless that config file is not really a config file. I did run several grep's 
on several files, but finding the offending "B" in like looking for a needle in 
a haystack, especially since I didn't know which haystack to search. 

How do we make it better? We could point out the exact offending file. Or say 
that an error was found while parsing config files or init scripts. There are 
plenty of things that could be done, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort in 
this case as it was just a simple typo that spawned this whole discussion.

Dave


On (2005-03-30 14:49), Holly Bostick wrote:
> Nicolas Bailey wrote:
> >I think you are being a little unfair in your judgement.  Thinking to
> >look in /etc/init.d, etc. relies on at least some knowledge that not
> >every Gentoo user will have (esp. the newer variety).  The same is
> >true in the case above.  Either you didn't know or didn't immediately
> >think of the consequences of the CONFIG_PROTECT settings.
> >
> >I'd tend to lend your arguments more merit if the error in question
> >said something to the effect of:
> >
> >/etc/init.d/hdparm: line 6: B: command not found
> >
> >Then a quick "head /etc/init.d/hdparm" would reveal the answer in a
> >much less obfuscated manner.
> >
> >As it stands, I think you are wanting to require the user happen to
> >know some semi-trivial Gentoo knowledge that they won't necessarily.
> 
> I'm not requiring anything; i'm *asking*.
> 
> For all I know, your example
> 
> > /etc/init.d/hdparm: line 6: B: command not found
> 
> is no more understandable to a "typical user" than the actual error was, 
> and that's what I'm wondering about.
> 
> After all, the only difference is that your example is more *direct*, 
> not necessarily more *clear*, as Dave indicated in his response.
> 
> If the user can read and comprehend that your example indicates that one 
> should look in the specific file /etc/init.d/hdparm for a random "B" 
> (which is probably a typo, but it even requires some technical knowledge 
> or experience to recognize that, doesn't it?), then they can reasonably 
> be presumed to be able to comprehend that in the original error they 
> should look in the specific file /var/lib/init.d/depcache; the only 
> difference between the real error and your example is that they will 
> actually *find* the "B" in hdparm, but they will only find calls to 
> files in /etc/ in depcache, where they would then have to manually 
> search (or, preferably, grep, which is admittedly an advanced skill imo) 
> for the file likely to contain the typo. So with the original error, the 
> sequence of actions is unchanged (look in the file specified by the 
> error output, for the string indicated in the error output), just 
> longer-- if you understand the stderr output in the first place.
> 
> But would said user be able to succeed if the error message was direct, 
> or is the message already too obtuse to be understood, direct or 
> indirect? If so, why?
> 
> Is the issue that users need to be trained in understanding error 
> message syntax because neither the indirect or direct messages are 
> understandable if you don't know it, and where should such training or 
> basic documentation be presented?
> 
> Or is the error message comprehensible, but people don't read it at all?
> 
> That's a social engineering issue-- but which one of the several that A. 
> Khattri indicated? "Laziness" (users can't be bothered/don't have time 
> to read)? Trained lack of confidence (long-term Windows use trains you 
> very heavily in the belief that you are incompetent to touch 
> system/application files, no matter whether you actually are or not)? 
> Trained despair (if people are very used to Windows' incomprehensible 
> error messages, they may not even look at stderr output, certain that i

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> We can't make Linux "better" and "ready for the desktop"-- which does
> *not* mean we have to do everything via a GUI, dagnabit; people can
> certainly use the command-line comfortably *if they know how*-- unless
> we identify where people are falling over it and how to remove the
> obstacles to their understanding and ease-of-use. Difficulties using
> error output effectively looks like an obstacle to ease-of-use to me.
> Heaven knows I won't know what to do about it if I do find an "answer"
> (or the beginnings of one), unless that answer is "add to the docs", but
> we all contribute what we can, and asking the question in the first
> place is what I can :-) .

Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for
quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad).

Because of the wide use of windows any replacement OS (be it linux, bsd,
macosx, or whatever) would have to function in a similar way before it would
be accepted.  The following would be a base set of requirements for such a
replacement:

1.  Boot totally into a gui - no startup output.  Those messages are great
for someone trying to diagnose an issue, but are just confusing to some and
unnecessary to most, which is why windows boots to gui and totally hides
this kind of information.

2.  Totally configurable via gui - no low-level file editing.  As power
users this is something that we want/need, but the windows user expects to
pull up a dialog for the program and click checkboxes to turn things on and
off.  I can just imagine the dialogs necessary to configure something like
postfix or sendmail ;-)

3.  Less service-oriented and more interactive.  Sure we run ftp servers,
web servers, mail servers, etc.  And we expect them to go off and do those
things without bothering us.  But at this point the windows user expects
visual feedback on everything - a mail icon indicating there's new mail in
outlook, blinking network light showing network activity, other tray icons
with menus allowing you to get to the background 'services' right away.

4.  Self-updating.  M$ has been pretty poor in this respect but they are
actively working on it and getting better.  My windows box downloads updates
automatically, installs them with a nice progress bar (and not a lot of
detail), and either a) handles whatever is necessary to get the new updates
used or b) asks me to reboot for the changes to take effect.  The whole
process is totally brain-dead, and that's what the average windows user is
going to expect.

I think all of these things would have to come to pass before linux would
make it on the desktop, and I'm not sure I believe they will ever happen.
Nobody wants to take linux in the direction of windows (thankfully), and
since most of the linux developers are power-users they have no reason to
want or include this kind of brain-dead junk in their software.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] cyrus-sasl-2.1.20 error

[Dave Nebinger]

> I am trying to compile cyrus-sasl and during configure
> i got the error that build options where changed in
> CFLAGS even though they were not. the recommended at
> the end of the script was to make distclean or rm
> config.cache and try again
> so i did that  and ran
> 
> ./configure with options below
> make
> touch .compiled  (in work directory) and then
> 
>  ebuild
> /usr/portage/dev-libs/cyrus-sasl/cyrus-sasl-2.1.20.ebuild
> install
> 
> but that failed with error listed below.

I think if you interpreted the message as "either 'make distclean' or 'rm
config.cache'" and only did the rm step, that was your downfall.

If you need to build it manually yet want the ebuild to manage it, I would
probably try it in a couple of steps:

1. ebuild [...]/cyrus-sasl-2.1.20.ebuild unpack
2. Go to the work directory and ./configure with your specific options
3. ebuild [...]/cyrus-sasl-2.1.20.ebuild install

Although I really can't understand why you would want to try to have portage
manage a package that you're compiling yourself.  The next time a release is
available and you emerge -uD world it would be replaced with one compiled
without your specific flags.

If you want to manage sasl on your own (and I can understand why as I manage
some packages outside of portage), just bite the bullet and do it; don't
involve portage because it may come back to haunt you later on.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Config Files Update?

[Dave Nebinger]

> There is a program called 'etc-update' this will show you the changes
> that will be required to update your files in /etc and subdirs, but I
> find it doesn't do all the updates..

Really?  I use etc-update all the time but was running under the assumption
that it was supposed to handle all of the updates.

Perhaps this is a bug.

Do you have examples of updates that etc-update didn't process?


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave Nebinger]

> > In any case, Dave still had to search for the typo one way or another
> > even with the advice; this was unavoidable. But the error message
> > already contained the information on where to start the search (and in
> > fact what was wrong, by indicating that there was a typo somewhere). So
> > what I am wondering (again, nothing about you personally, Dave, you
> > simply seem to have a fairly typical user issue), is why users have
> > difficulty understanding these messages, and using them effectively.

Hmm, I take issue with the inference that the message was understandable.
The error message itself pointed to the depcache file, yet the error was in
a script in /etc/init.d.  Yes, the depcache file is readable but to approach
tracking that down you're saying you're willing to dive into the internals
of gentoo with (but mostly w/o) the knowledge needed to understand and
follow along.

Many folks, especially gentoo newbies, don't have that foundation.  It's
easier if you're a seasoned unix/linux user as you don't have the fear of
digging into the files to find out what's going on, but that experience is
not shared by all.

> As someone who works in support (ISP), I find a lot of people:
> 
> 1) Dont read the error message given (made worse by the fact that people
>read less these days!). You can send these people FAQs, warning emails,
>whatever and they won't read them. Recent case in point: user was over
>mailbox quota and was sent automated warning when they hit 90% - advice
>on how to clean out their mailbox is given in a URL in the email, but
>does anyone read that???
> 
> 2) Read the error message but simply dont get it - these are the people
>who drive a car but know nothing about the basic mechanics of how the
>engine propels the vehicle (these people also rarely change their oil
>or do any basic maintenance on their cars).
> 
> 3) Too scared to read the error - many people fear technology or fear that
>they may "break the computer" by poking around. (IMHO, poking around
>and tinkering however are the BEST ways to learn anything).
> 
> 4) Read the error message and use it as a starting point to systematically
>track down the problem - these users are very rare (though there's a
>lot of them in the Linux community). Users in groups (1), (2) and (3)
>would consider these people "power users".

The fifth group should include those that know, by experience, that a given
error message actually means something completely different than what's
being reported.

This depcache error was a perfect example; I asked Dave to send me his
depcache file so I could see what it contained - I was going to start
tracking the issue from the source (falling under group number 4, I guess).

Another gentoo person replied that Dave should look for B in /etc/init.d
scripts; obviously he had the experience to know that the depcache error
translated into an invalid command in one of the scripts.

The error message I hate to see is the error coming out of emerge, the
'failed to build' error.  For reference:

> !!! ERROR: net-misc/wget-1.9.1-r3 failed.
> !!! Function src_compile, Line 54, Exitcode 2
> !!! (no error message)
> !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error,
> NOT this status message.

This really doesn't translate into anything useful.  If the failure occurred
during the configure script run, the config.log contents are needed to
understand what the error was.  If the failure occurred during a compile or
link, the full command line before the error is useful as well as other
pertinent information (i.e. gcc version, gentoo version, basic 'emerge
--info' output).

With experience we know that info is necessary to diagnose a failure, but a
generic "post the topmost build error" doesn't suffice.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [VERY OT] A Windows shell Im creating

[Dave Nebinger]

> Does it mean that non .NET will not run properly on their
> forthcoming pieces of vomit OSes?

Nope, it just means that support for VB 6 and earlier versions of the
development tool will not be supported.

Applications built under VB 6 will still run (obviously as there is a huge
installation base of apps constructed under VB6).

Just pray that you don't run into a bug because you will be SOL.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] how to remove package for ever

[Dave Nebinger]

> Please is it possible to remove package by specifying it within make.conf
> file??? 

No, that's not what make.conf is used for.

> I want to remove balckdown/ibm JDKs.

You can use the 'emerge -i dev-java/blackdown-jdk dev-java/blackdown-jre'
command to make portage think it's installed but not install it (see
injecting under the emerge man page).


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] emerge kde-base/arts doesn't see qt

[Dave Nebinger]

> checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= Qt 3.3) (library qt-mt) not
> found. Please check your installation!
> For more details about this problem, look at the end of config.log.
> Make sure that you have compiled Qt with thread support!
> 
> !!! ERROR: kde-base/arts-1.3.2-r1 failed.
> !!! Function kde_src_compile, Line 154, Exitcode 1
> !!! died running ./configure, kde_src_compile:configure
> !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, NOT this status
> message.
> 
> but qt-3.3.4-r2 is installed.
> 
> I have 2 questions.
> 
> 1. what can I do to resolve this ? (except masking arts)

I had this same issue with the kde 3.4 release; re-emerging qt resolved it.

The true source of the problem is that at the same time 3.4 came out a new
update to glibc came out; in rebuilding glibc, a new pthread library (ala
nptl) was built that had an API change that libqt-mt is no longer compatible
with.

Re-emerging qt resolves the linking failures in qt/kde builds.

> 2. What is arts good for ? Shouldn't I avoid it altogether with a -arts
> USE flag ?

Arts is the kde sound daemon.  Based on your output of "emerge -pvtuD
world", something (the ebuild) is overriding your "-arts" flag.  It's
probably being overridden by the libao ebuild, but why it thinks arts is a
dependency I can't answer.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] again gdeslets please help

[Dave Nebinger]

> i hardly try to run gdesklets on my gentoo whit xfce4
> i have emerged all the packages  and now i have the
> gdesklets in the menubar. if i try to run gdesklets


[snip]

zh, not to sound crass but if you haven't seen any traffic on this message
it's most likely because no one has an answer for you - trust me, this list
generates traffic for almost anything.

Aren't there gnome-specific lists out there?  I think with a focused group
of gnome users and/or developers you'd stand a better chance at fixing the
problem.

Sorry,

Dave


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] emerge wget failed - help

[Dave Nebinger]

> I am trying an emerge on wget.  I get a compile error:
> 
> In file included from ftp.c:52:
> ftp.h:81: error: parse error before numeric constant
> make[1]: *** [ftp.o] Error 1

Jason, wget-1.9.1-r3 builds fine on my system.  Perhaps you could send the
output from a few lines before this error rather than the ones following it?

The line in ftp.h (81) is an enum construct where several symbolic names are
used to represent constant values.  I'm not sure where the values are
located (i.e. a system include file or a local include file), but I'm
hunting...



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)

[Dave V]

Wow, that was a long read.

Let me first say that I'm a little bit insulted at having my post compared to a 
typical Windows user :P.

With that out of the way, it really wasn't a very clear message. I knew that 
the two lines

/var/lib/init.d/depcache: line 6: B: command not found
/sbin/rc: line 6: B: command not found

must be referring to some other commonly referenced file, but had no idea where 
to start looking. If the scripts had pointed out the actual file where the 
error had occurred, then it would have been a simple resolution.

Everything is a learning experience I suppose. I'm sure next time I have a 
similar "command not found" error, I'll know where to look, but I don't see how 
"command not found" would intuitively lead me to the /etc/conf.d and 
/etc/init.d directories. Of course the meaning of "command not found" is clear, 
but the location of the command in question was the problem.

Dave

On (2005-03-29 12:36), Holly Bostick wrote:
> Dave V wrote:
> > You got me looking in the right places at least. Turned out that the 
> offending file was in /etc/conf.d. I somehow managed to insert a random 
> B character on line 6 of /etc/conf.d/hdparm. Thanks for the help all.
> >
> > On (2005-03-28 12:54), A. Khattri wrote:
> >>On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Dave V wrote:
> >>
> >>>Every time I emerge I get this message:
> >>>
> >>> * Caching service dependencies...
> >>>/var/lib/init.d/depcache: line 6: B: command not found
> >>>
> >>>I also get this when booting in the middle of the normal service 
> startup messages:
> >>>
> >>>/sbin/rc: line 6: B: command not found
> >>>
> >>>This problem has been hanging around for a while and so far hasn't 
> caused any noticable trouble, but the locations are a bit worrisome. Any 
> idea how I can fix this or what might be causing it?
> >>What does "grep B /etc/init.d/*" say?
> >>
> >>
> 
> OK, now that the problem has been solved, I'd like to ask a question 
> about why this was a problem in the first place. Not getting on you, 
> Dave, I'm just curious about a "user psychology issue".
> 
> The error message is quite clear-- it gives a location and a standard 
> (meaning, well-understood) error: "command not found".
> 
> So, from the error, we already know that there is a "B" command being 
> called, which does not exist (as we also know just from common sense; I 
> certainly don't know every binary name available to Linux, but "B" just 
> doesn't seem likely to be one of them). We also know (hopefully), even 
> from limited experience, that a "Command not found" error is often 
> caused by a typo; the alternative being the program not being installed 
> in the first place if spelled correctly, but in this case, where the 
> command not found is something like "B", which one can easily guess is 
> not a real command, we can pretty much say "typo".
> 
> So we know we've got a typo somewhere, and the error message tells us 
> the beginning of the trail to locate it, /var/lib/init.d/depcache.
> 
> depcache is openable via less (and possibly other text editors), so that 
> would be the first thing to check for this typo. Of course, I don't have 
> this error, but looking at depcache, it's pretty easy to see that the 
> "B" is likely not there-- and I wouldn't have expected it in depcache 
> anyway, since I have a general idea that depcache (given that it has the 
> word "cache" in its name) is something that calls other scripts. 
> Besides, I have never edited depcache (so I could not have inserted a 
> random "B" into it). "Even I" know this, because 1) files in /var/ are 
> not something normally edited or even looked at by a user, and 2) I 
> would have noticed something like depcache showing up in etc-update for 
> that reason (it would be so unusual), although I would not have edited 
> it had it come up, but accepted changes. Which means that 3) if the typo 
> really was in depcache, it was a developer typo which is not so likely 
> for a random "B", and even if it was a developer typo, 4) it's a bug 
> that's going to be fixed by the developers, probably quite soon. So the 
> typo being in depcache itself is still possible, but the greatest 
> possiblility is that I the user made the typo, which means it's not in 
> depcache itself (though, since I'm opening depcache anyway, I'll scan 
> for it). What looking at depcaches does tell me is what scripts/files 
> are likely candidates for the t

Re: [gentoo-user] help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...

[Dave V]

You got me looking in the right places at least. Turned out that the offending 
file was in /etc/conf.d. I somehow managed to insert a random B character on 
line 6 of /etc/conf.d/hdparm. Thanks for the help all.

On (2005-03-28 12:54), A. Khattri wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Dave V wrote:
> 
> > Every time I emerge I get this message:
> >
> >  * Caching service dependencies...
> > /var/lib/init.d/depcache: line 6: B: command not found
> >
> > I also get this when booting in the middle of the normal service startup 
> > messages:
> >
> > /sbin/rc: line 6: B: command not found
> >
> > This problem has been hanging around for a while and so far hasn't caused 
> > any noticable trouble, but the locations are a bit worrisome. Any idea how 
> > I can fix this or what might be causing it?
> 
> What does "grep B /etc/init.d/*" say?
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

-- 
Booze is the answer.  I don't remember the question.


pgpdKzy5k3PaC.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] Runlevel schizophrenia...

[Dave Nebinger]

> For instance you refer to /sbin/rc as the way to change from
> one runlevel to another, yet 'man rc' shows nothing. Whereas
> a 'man telinit' on gentoo does give a description of a program
> claiming to be the correct way to change runlevel...

Documentation (and man pages in general) are typically out of sync with the
actual development efforts.  Many open source projects have hoards of
developers that want to contribute yet many projects are begging for
documentation folks.
 
> Plus it isn't clear to me from any docs I can find if /sbin/rc expects
> a text or numeric runlevel argument. At least telinit is
> well documented...
>
> If /sbin/rc is the way to do it, why is it not documented in the manual??
> If telenit is not the way to do it, why is it in the manual??

I'm sure the gentoo developers would like a hand extending the documentation
to include such information.

But realistically I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.  I
have two runlevels, default and console.  I can either use the softlevel at
boot or change the runlevel in /etc/inittab, or both.

But who really changes runlevels frequently?  I don't.  My boxen come up
under the runlevel I assign and they stay up.  There's no need to change
runlevels on a frequent basis.

As to complaining about the lack of info in the man pages, I'm much happier
that the gentoo folks are focusing their efforts on portions of the gentoo
system that need it, rather than burning cycles on a man page that would
hardly be needed 99% of the time.

> And why specify the runlevel by name at boot, and by number in inittab?
>
> Fudging things by just making the name equal the runlevel number just
> introduces a source of potential confusion. A bit like having some file
> commands use name, and others using inode number. Sure you could suggest
> that all file names be made equal to the text representation of the inode
> number, but that would hardly be an elegant solution and would defeat the
> purpose of having text names... It is much better to have all system calls
> work on names and keep the inodes internal - as is done.

So it's different than BSD.  Big deal.  It's only one of many differences
between gentoo and BSD/other linux distros.  If you don't like it, you're
welcome to either a) submit changes or b) use another distro that's more to
your liking.

But complaining about portions of gentoo that aren't like BSD doesn't help
anyone.
 


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables help!

[Dave Nebinger]

> configure:1655: i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc  -O2 -march=pentium4 -pipe -DLINUX
> -D_XOPEN i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `as': No
> such file or directory
> cc1: Broken pipe: error closing

Dude, you've got a seriously broken gentoo system :-(

Your toolchain is corrupted probably due to a misguided attempt to alter
your CHOST value after the initial install.

I'd suggest re-emerging your entire toolchain (binutils, gcc, glibc) before
going any further.  Hopefully the end result will be a working toolchain
that will get you by these problems...

Dave



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Runlevel schizophrenia...

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Oh, I agree that being able to nominate a runlevel at boot time is
> > a good thing. But I think it would be more consistent to do it
> > by specifying it the same way that it is specified in inittab or
> > to telinit, and the same way it is reported by 'who -r'
> >
> > That is, they should all use numeric runlevels, or they should all
> > use text runlevels. It is the inconsistency that I don't like...

There's nothing stopping you from renaming default to 3, etc.  If that's
what you prefer, then go ahead and have at it.  Gentoo is your friend, not
your enemy.

> I agree.  The worst part about switching from one *nix version to
> another is trying to figure out how that particular distro chose to
> implement the runlevels.

Hardly.  This is just one difference as compared to the whole /etc
structure.  Gentoo tends to nest /etc files in directories where, if you
build and install yourself, tend to have configuration files right at the
/etc level.

And when you're digging into other documentation you'll find references to
what are considered 'standard' files that aren't in the same places in
gentoo.

> > As far as the dependencies go, are you sure they are checked at
> > script execution time? Normally it would be when the script was
> > added to the runlevel that the sequencing would be done (ie in gentoo
> > when rc-update was run).
> >
> 
> I'm not sure.

It's both.  The env-update (and rc-update) rebuild the dependency cache file
which is then used at runlevel switch to ensure that the services for the
particular runlevel are up (or stopped if necessary during a runlevel
switch).

> > And I don't think just running all the scripts is enough to change
> > runlevels. Normally you have to work out the difference between the
> > old runlevel and the new, shutdown the things in the old runlevel
> > that weren't in the new, and only start the things in the new
> > runlevel that weren't in the old. That is why it is best to
> > do the change with 'telinit'.
> 
> True, when switching between runlevels, you might want some services
> to stop.  So, you'd probably need to create a more intelligent shell
> script (unless there is already a way to switch between runlevels).

It's called /sbin/rc...

Telinit & sysv runlevels are not the be-all and end-all.  That's why gentoo
(and suse as well) use different models.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Re: configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables help!

[Dave Nebinger]

> > > It seems odd to me that you have 3.4.3 emerged, but 3.3.5 is
> > > selected. Anyone else know what might be going on here?
> >
> > Gcc are slotted, there's nothing bad having multiple versions.
> 
> I didn't say it was wrong, but it *is* curious that the *older* version is
> selected, rather than the newer one.

Not really.  My environments are the same.  I didn't have much success with
3.4.3 for compiling some packages (it was either X or kde, I don't remember
which).

So my default is 3.3.5 but 3.4.3 is available if I need it.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] help "line 6: B: command not found"

[Dave V]

Hello,

Every time I emerge I get this message:

 * Caching service dependencies...
/var/lib/init.d/depcache: line 6: B: command not found

I also get this when booting in the middle of the normal service startup 
messages:

/sbin/rc: line 6: B: command not found

This problem has been hanging around for a while and so far hasn't caused any 
noticable trouble, but the locations are a bit worrisome. Any idea how I can 
fix this or what might be causing it? 

Dave

-- 
What UNIVERSE is this, please??


pgpXRgtnLMWvt.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] Runlevel schizophrenia...

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Obviously I need to get a bit more used to where to find documentation
> > on gentoo. I am used to being able to use 'man -k' to find most system
> > documentation on BSD, with the addition of 'texinfo' and 'locate' since
> > experimenting with linux...
> 
> Web browser meet Digby. Digby meet web browser.

That was so cold I busted out laughing...

;-)


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Any posters getting bounce messages?

[Dave Nebinger]

I'm getting bounces from [EMAIL PROTECTED]  I thought the mailing list
was set up to auto-unregister folks when the bounce messages are returned?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]




--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] emerge system = many automakes

[Dave Nebinger]

> Why does emerge system want to install 6 different automake versions
> in different slots and 2 different autoconf versions?

They are slotted.  Different packages need different versions of
auto{make,conf} to build properly.

They don't take up that much space and ensure the system builds properly, so
don't worry about them.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables help!

[Dave Nebinger]

> >>> Unpacking patch-2.5.9.tar.gz to /var/tmp/portage/patch-2.5.9/work
> >>> Source unpacked.
> configure: WARNING: If you wanted to set the --build type, don't use --
> host.
> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.

If you go to the directory /var/tmp/portage/patch-2.5.9/work/patch-2.5.9
you'll find a config.log file.  Open the file and you'll see that it is the
output of what configure was doing when the failure occurred, and you can
see the exact output message from gcc that was handed to configure.  Note
that the info will not be at the end of the file but actually embedded
within it (the end of the file is a dump of variable settings configure had
at the time the failure occurred).

Typically you'll find something like an error about a missing library or
header file or something.

If you want to send me the config.log I'll help you figure it out.

Dave


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] emerge/make failure i386 vs i686

[Dave Nebinger]

> >Trying to emerge the kde packages I get a make error from kde-libs
> >build.
> >
> >Its looking for:
> >  /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la:
> >i386 packages but what is installed there is:
> >  /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la
> >i686 stuff.
> >
> >Do I need to pass something to emerge?  If so how is it done?
> >Or is emerge/make supposed to know what is installed?
> >

It sounds like you changed your CHOST value after the initial system build
(notice the difference in location is exactly what the CHOST value looks
like).

As a temporary fix, I'd suggest creating a link from the i686 dir to one in
the i386 dir.  Then re-emerge glibc to ensure everything is correct for your
CHOST value.

> You need libstdc++-v3.  So What you need to do here is 'emerge
> libstdc++-v3' then try to emerge kde again.

This might solve the specific problem, but leaves the system in a
questionable state (in that some things would still probably look in the 386
directory).



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] CHOST *can* be changed!

[Dave Nebinger]

> Impatient to an answer to my query whether or not I
> could change CHOST and CFLAGS in make.conf after
> having installed everything with reference to Intel
> arch instead of AMD, I went ahead anyway -- and it
> worked! After 7 3/4 tense hrs(!)xorg was emerged
> successfully. Well, almost.

While the switch is possible, it can introduce issues (i.e. one library
built for one architecture being linked against that of another arch), which
is why it is recommended not to be done.

That said, most of the time the issues will relate to what the compiler
optimizes at.  For example, if the 3dnow extensions were used for the amd
builds, those extensions aren't available for the Pentium platform.  Things
will compile and link against the old libraries (because it's the same api
for both platforms), yet you might run into strange issues (i.e. segfaults
et al.) when you attempt to run software that uses those extensions.

The fact that you were successful in rebuilding at this point is
meaningless; whether it runs or not will be the true test.

> In /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts I found two bad links to
> CID and Speedo in /usr/share/fonts. There was nothing
> in emerge.log about this. How did this happen if all
> the checksums worked? Anyone suggest a fix?

The /var/log/emerge.log would report errors on checksums and, when these
occur, emerge bails.  So you probably didn't get any errors on those.

As far as a fix for the links, I'd suggest just building the links manually
to restore them to their proper values.

> I haven't run Xconf yet, I was hoping for some tips
> for setting up my card, a Radeon 9250, mindful of the
> recent debate on the list of the relative merits of
> ATI and nVidia cards. I'm not a gamer and a lot of eye
> candy in not important to me but I would like sharp,
> clear text in the documents I hope to be able to read
> once X windows is startable 8)

The standard output of the xorg configuration should work for you in that
case.  You'll probably need to edit the config to specify your preferred
resolution stuff and might try running the radeon driver over the ati
driver, but for general X usage either should be fine.

> Also, df returns a reading of 29% use on /. But that's
> what is was before. Surely 7 3/4 hours of compilin'
> and installin' would have added a fair chunk to the
> hd.

Well, you really didn't install anything new, you simply rebuilt and
replaced what was already there, so you should not expect any significant
disk usage increase.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] one more su problem

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Now I'm wondering what you're trying to do.  Are you
> > trying to su to a user
> 
> ??? in user -> root, like I said!! If I'm
> already root where on earth could I su to? or why?

Su is just that - switch user.  I do it frequently from root to another
user, i.e. I want to test some changes that I made as root and want to see
what effect it has at a specific user/group level.

But that's neither here nor there.  I guess that you're saying when you do:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ su

with no user, that's when you're getting the expired message, right?

Su has a couple of components that could possibly be interfering with the
process.  The first is pam; the file in /etc/pam.d/su has some doco that
plays a part and also speaks of other files that could also have some
effect.  You might want to check into those and ensure that the settings are
valid for what you are trying to do.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] sys-libs/glibc-2.3.4 b0rkage with segmentation fault

[Dave Nebinger]

> CFLAGS="-march=athlon-xp -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"
> CXXFLAGS="-O2 -mcpu=i686 -pipe"

You really should try to match your CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS.  It's safer that
way.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] one more su problem

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Can you log in as the user at all?  Or are you
> > trying only from su?
> 
> only from su...

You should try to log in as the user specifically to ensure that the login
is not expired.

> don't know what this means. After boot
> I login as user or root. If, as user, I enter su, I
> get error, acct expired. Am I missing something, some
> gentoo-specific method here? When I ran slack or
> redhat I would su as user($), enter a password, and be
> presented with a root prompt(#) on the next line with
> all the privileges of root at my disposal.

Now I'm wondering what you're trying to do.  Are you trying to su to a user
or su to root?  If root, then it's more serious because root is never
supposed to expire.

> > Are there any messages in /var/log/messages (or your
> > equivalent) that might
> > apply?
> 
> almost positive, no.

Hmm, I get all kinds of messages for login failures; it's the only way to
handle auditing...


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] xorg emerge seg-fault -- NOT ram!

[Dave Nebinger]

> > CHOST="i386-pc-linux-gnu"
> 
> Why i386, could go i586, coudn't it?

Because you never change the CHOST after the initial gentoo build.  Besides,
the PIII is i686.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] managing servers

[Dave Nebinger]

> I have most of this done already... I guess what I am really looking for
> is package management / security updates and building new machines.

I'm sure I'm not dealing with the sizes you are, but I'm running gentoo on a
number of my systems at home.  To that end I've got a 'gentoo server' that's
responsible for a) being the local gentoo rsync mirror (to serve portage
updates to the internal client systems w/o hitting the network for each) and
b) building packages into binary format (as the client systems are similar
architecture, one system builds binaries and the binaries are emerged on the
client systems).

In this way you'll have a single system doing all of the work of maintaining
synchronization with Gentoo and the client systems benefiting from that
work.  Since my client systems tend to have spare cycles, I've enabled
distcc on the internal network so the actual build process is distributed,
reducing the actual impact to the server and reducing the package build
times.

It's actually pretty sweet ;-)




--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] How to convince portage not to manage kernel...

[Dave Nebinger]

> Put it in $PORTDIR_OVERLAY/sys-kernel/homebrew-sources and emerge.

Did that, but portage still thinks I want the 2.4 kernel:

server homebrew-sources # emerge --pretend --update --deep world

These are the packages that I would merge, in order:

Calculating world dependencies ...done!
[ebuild U ] x11-base/xorg-x11-6.8.2-r1 [6.8.2]
[ebuild U ] net-misc/wget-1.9.1-r3 [1.9-r2]
[ebuild U ] app-text/ghostscript-7.07.1-r8 [7.07.1-r7]
[ebuild  NS   ] sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.4.28-r8
[ebuild U ] kde-base/kdelibs-3.3.2-r5 [3.3.2-r4]
[ebuild U ] media-gfx/xloadimage-4.1-r3 [4.1-r2]



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] How to convince portage not to manage kernel...

[Dave Nebinger]

> That is what homebrew-sources is for. It's a dummy ebuild that provides
> all necessary virtuals to simulate gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.99.

Great!  As I mentioned at the end of my reply, it was possible that I was
missing your point and apparently I was.

Thanks for this pointer; I'm going to give it a whirl...

Dave


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] kde-split ebuilds advice

[Dave Nebinger]

> My ? is, do I have to emerge  or  in order
> to be
> able to emerge individual apps at a later time for updates etc...

I installed my KDE via the "emerge kde" command.  I don't typically see
updates for individual applications but do see updates for the core KDE
component groups (i.e. kdelibs, kdebase).

I guess it would depend upon whether your app is part of the kde core
packages or as an individual kde-based application.

I'm planning on sticking with the "emerge kde" path as it appears to ensure
the full kde subsystem of core components is kept up to date.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] How to convince portage not to manage kernel...

[Dave Nebinger]

> I am using the "homebrew-sources" ebuild:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~rac/homebrew-sources-2.6.99.ebuild
> 
> Put it in $PORTDIR_OVERLAY/sys-kernel/homebrew-sources and emerge.

Ah, you missed my point.  I'm not using an ebuild-based kernel, I'm
maintaining my own sources.

But somewhere along the line (probably during the initial system install)
portage now thinks that I'm using the vanilla 2.4 sources and insists on
trying to keep them up to date with whatever changes are made to the
ebuilds.

That's what I want to avoid - I don't want portage to try to keep the kernel
in sync because I'm not using a portage-managed kernel.

Possibly I could be missing your point - does 'homebrew sources' translate
into "I'm managing my own kernel so portage ignore it"?

Dave



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] OT: Mbox vs maildir

[Dave Nebinger]

> I'd imagine that 100% of the people on this list interact with email,
> which is a much better ratio than those that use X, setup a bootsplash,
> or want sound to work. I quitely delete those threads as being of no
> interest to me, but interesting and on topic for others on the list. I
> expect others to give my and a significant portion of the list's
> interests the same curtesy.

That's a problem that most mailing lists suffer from.  For this list, some
folks believe that if they're running a gentoo system, then the gentoo list
is the place to post questions whether they're truly related to gentoo
issues or not.

I'm on the KDE-linux mailing list and last week there was a long and OT
thread that started with an ubuntoo user with an ubuntoo issue that, since
he was running linux, thought the kde-linux list was the place to post.

Nick is right that the mailserver thing is OT because it's not a specific
gentoo issue.  Some of the other issues you mentioned are typically more
gentoo-related than the mailserver choice thing.

That said, each one of us on the list will have our own opinions about what
is or is not OT.  Let's not beat each other up trying to get everyone to
agree that one opinion is the best...


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] How to convince portage not to manage kernel...

[Dave Nebinger]

I typically run a customized kernel but every time the vanilla kernel (2.4)
is modified it's included in "emerge --pretend --update --deep world".

I'm aware of package.mask, etc., but was wondering if there's a better way
to keep portage from trying to download/build the unused gentoo kernels...

Dave


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] /dev/dri/card0 gone (ATI Radeon 9600)

[Dave Nebinger]

> I have recently lost 3d support for my ATI Radeon 9600, and am using
> x11-base/xorg-x11-6.8.2-r1 and media-video/ati-drivers-8.10.19.
> 
> In my /var/log/Xorg.0.log, excerpted below, it complains that
> /dev/dri/card0 doesn't exist and sure enough:

6.8.2-r1 is a new release of xorg; I'm going to assume that you've followed
the instructions to emerge xorg only when X is not running...

If I remember correctly, the /dev/dri/card0 is created when the module(s)
are loaded.  I'd suggest getting into console mode, emerge xorg again, then
reboot or restart X.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Re: gnu time command

[Dave Nebinger]

> > Im trying to write some scripts to record some times for creating
> > graphs. Im trying to use the time command and have it output to a
> > file. In the man page it gives details of how one can use the -o and
> > -a switches to output to and append to a file. However the utility
> > does not seem to recognise these switches. It does mention that these
> > are GNU options but I thought the version I had was the GNU version.
> > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> You may find it easier to use /usr/bin/date in your scripts..

Date won't give him the same stats as time (time shows the different usage
of kernel & user times, etc.).

For the OP, the man page is probably from the generic man pages ebuild, but
the time you have is probably the built-in shell version (verify by typing
"which time" and you'll probably get the 'no time in ...' response).

You can find the gnu version of time at
http://www.gnu.org/software/time/time.html.

Dave


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] OT: Lost VI colors...

[Dave Nebinger]

> | Vim.  Vim and vim core (for both) are 6.3-r4.
> 
> Hrm. Are we talking app-vim/colorschemes stuff here? If so, sync and
> upgrade.

Checked both systems, neither has colorschemes installed.  I guess if the
working one did and the failing one did not I could understand.

But I compared the /usr/bin/vi on both systems and, to my surprise, the
working system had vi as a link to vim but the failing system had an actual
vi executable (much smaller than vim).  Not sure what I had emerged to get
this, but I renamed it and put a link to vim in place and everything's
working as it should.

Thanks!


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] linux-2.6.11 is out

[Dave Nebinger]

> Thanks, but I've already added those to my package.mask, but the 1.0-6111
> nVidia kernel module refuses to compile on 2.6.11 and most its the release
> candidates for me.

When I was using nvidia I downloaded the 6111 release from nvidia.com and
had to modify some of the code to get it to compile for 2.6.10.  Below is a
note that I made for myself of the changes that I made, they'll probably
work for you also:

winux nvidia # cat nvidia.changes

12/30/2004 - dnebing - I modified the usr/src/nv/nv.c to do the following:

1. Replace pci_find_class() with pci_get_class().  The arguments are the
same, but pci_find_class was removed and replaced with pci_get_class().
Replacement builds successfully with this change.

2. Declare __VMALLOC_RESERVE.  Don't know what value it should have, but a
value must be defined for it to work.  I used "unsigned int
__VMALLOC_RESERVE = 128 << 20;".

After making these changes, the regular installer will work successfully.




--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] 6 gigs to clean up

[Dave Nebinger]

You can safely drop /var/tmp/portage to reclaim a lot of space.
/usr/portage will typically contain the distribution files for those pieces
that you've emerged; you can remove these but re-emerging/updating would
download them again.

To 'clean' your /usr/portage directory you could try removing the whole
thing then drop a snapshot in place.

I keep my distribution files in an alternate location (my local ftp space
for other gentoo boxes on the internal network to retrieve from), but "du -h
/usr/portage" still reports that I'm using 1.5 Gig.  To me this is a small
price to pay, especially since disk space is so darn cheap to begin with.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] gentoo mirrors

[Dave Nebinger]

> I'm using mirrorselect to update my make.conf and get faster
> downloads, but I've noticed that each mirror it selects gets
> unreachable after a while (usually one week or two).

What do you mean by 'unreachable'?  emerge --sync reports an error, or is it
more of a network problem that ping/traceroute actually reports a node is
unreachable?



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] System has UTC, where I want EST

[Dave Nebinger]

What is /etc/localtime linked to?



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Naive question

[Dave Nebinger]

Take a look at the contents of /etc/make.profile.  There's really not much
in there outside of (from what I can see) files containing use flags and
package masks.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it was the default values used to
construct the base system from your initial install, whether 2004.3 or
2005.1.

As all of these files are typically changed as your gentoo system becomes
customized (i.e. you edit your /etc/make.conf and files in /etc/portage), I
doubt these are used for much.

The real question is why do you care what profile your gentoo system was
built from?  If you've been doing the standard "emerge --sync" and "emerge
-uD world", you've already got a system that's beyond whatever the initial
2005.1 profile represents.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] OT: Lost VI colors...

[Dave Nebinger]

Vim.  Vim and vim core (for both) are 6.3-r4.

> -Original Message-
> From: Ciaran McCreesh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 10:42 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Lost VI colors...
> 
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:26:16 -0500 "Dave Nebinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> | I've got two gentoo systems, each sync'd last night, each running vi
> | 6.3-r4, duplicate /etc/vim/vimrc and ~/.vimrc files.
> 
> vi or vim? If vim, what vim-core version?
> 
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
> Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
> Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] OT: Lost VI colors...

[Dave Nebinger]

I'm not sure what I did, but I've lost color syntax in VI...

I've got two gentoo systems, each sync'd last night, each running vi 6.3-r4,
duplicate /etc/vim/vimrc and ~/.vimrc files.

SSH into one and vi does the color syntax.  SSH into the other and vi does
not do the color syntax.  Term is set for xterm on both SSH sessions.

Color works for both (i.e. "emerge -uDp world" and ls both output color
info).

Anyone have suggestions for getting the color syntax working on the second
system?

Thanks!

Dave



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] eclipse and memory

[Dave Nebinger]

> I am wondering whether it is worth trying to install eclipse with 256meg
> of RAM. I have tried netbeans and it was a complete dog. Has anyone got
> any experience with this?

I've been running eclipse on my gentoo system, 256mb, no problems.  I think
you'll notice a big difference between it and netbeans.

Dave


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Lost par_port printer after emerge

[Dave Nebinger]

> 
> I did 'emberge unmerge ghostview' and 'merge ghostview-afpl' earlier
> today...

In that case I'd re-emerge cups.  There are parts of cups that tie into
ghostview for the printing of postscript files.  Having a different
ghostview implementation could be causing you some problems.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Do not get an ATi (Was: Newbie Hardware Advice)

[Dave V]

I had problems with ATI under both windows and linux, but that aside NVIDIA's 
drivers simply outperform similar ATI's based on similar cards in my 
(admittedly) limited experience. I had an Radeon 9250, and I gave up on it. My 
nvidia 5700LE is great and hasn't given me a bit of trouble from day 1.

Dave

On (2005-03-01 06:52), Heinz Sporn wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> That recommendation is quite harsh IMHO - although I prefer Nvidia over
> Ati myself. With the latest release of stable drivers both Ati and
> Nvidia fully support Xorg 6.8 including 3D DRI.
> 
> The reason why so many people literally hate Ati when it comes to Linux
> is rather simple: their Linux driver support is - simply put - weak, on
> the edge of not existing whereas Nvidia was rather friendly to the
> community right from the start.
> 
> Regards
> 
>spox
> 
> Am Montag, den 28.02.2005, 19:57 -0800 schrieb Peter Gordon:
> > Keith Gable wrote:
> > >>From personal experience, I can say this:
> > > DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GET AN ATI CARD.
> > 
> > Just to satiate my curiosity, why do you say this? I'm planning on 
> > purchasing a
> > Sapphire Radeon 9250 that I found on NewEgg because of the Free Software 
> > driver
> > support (X.org and DRI). Were your troubles with ATi proprietary driver?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > ()  The ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against HTML Email,
> > /\  vCards, and proprietary formats.
> > ---
> > Peter A. Gordon (codergeek42)
> > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > GPG Public Key ID: 0x109DBECE
> > GPG Key Fingerprint (SHA1):
> >E485 E2F7 11CE F9B2 E3D9 C95D 208F B732 109D BECE
> > Encrypted and/or Signed correspondence preffered.
> > GPG Public Key available upon request or from
> >pgp.mit.edu's public key server.
> > ---
> -- 
> Mit freundlichen Gr??en
> 
> Heinz Sporn
> 
> SPORN it-freelancing
> 
> Mobile: ++43 (0)699 / 127 827 07
> Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Snail:  Steyrer Str. 20
> A-4540 Bad Hall
> Austria / Europespox
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

-- 
There's only one way to have a happy marriage and as soon as I learn
what it is I'll get married again.
-- Clint Eastwood


pgpccbOUCz5bB.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB on JFS root partition won't boot

[Dave V]

Well the kernel should have nothing to do with it as GRUB died before giving me 
a chance to select which kernel I wanted to boot. Don't know what was up, but 
things are still stable, and I'm not sure I've ever had to reinstall grub to 
the MBR once I had it working. I'm not sure if I should try tinkering with it, 
but just leave it alone and be happy it works.

Dave

On (2005-03-01 18:05), Douglas James Dunn wrote:
> Before I heard that it just started working again I thought that
> possibly jfs wasnt compiled into the kernel. but now that it works im
> not sure what to think
> 
> On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 08:27 -0600, Keith Gable wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure your boot partition has to be ext2/ext3. HTH.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:58:32 -0500, Dave V <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello All,
> > > 
> > > I just put together a fresh Gentoo System on my laptop. This is the 
> > > 5th-6th (starting to lose count) system that I've set up from stage1 and 
> > > I think I've finally got it all down. I decided to try JFS instead of 
> > > ext3 and all is fine except that I can't boot with GRUB.
> > > 
> > > I get
> > > # GRUB Loading stage1.5.
> > > #
> > > #
> > > # GRUB loading, please wait...
> > > and then it goes out to lunch.
> > > 
> > > I can still get into the system by using a KANOTIX live-cd (knoppix 
> > > derivative) that uses grub. Then manually boot with "kernel 
> > > (hd0,0)/boot/kernel-2.6.10 vga=791" and the system is doing rather well. 
> > > So.. things work if I use grub exterally, but not from the MBR. I'd 
> > > really like to avoid making an ext2/3 partition to house grub if I can. 
> > > Any ideas?
> > > 
> > > Dave
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> -- 
> Douglas James Dunn
> cell: (724) 316-8266
> Indiana University of Pennsylvania 
> 
> ()  The ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against HTML Email,
> /\  vCards, and proprietary formats.
> 
>.
>  .vir.d$b
>   .d$$b..cd$$b. .d$$b.   d$$$b  .d$$b.  .d$$b.
>   ( )$$$b d$$$()$$$.   d$$$b Q$$$P$$$P.$$$b.  .$$$b.
>   Q$$BP"  d$$$PQb.   .   .$$$P' `$$$ .$$$P' `$$$
> "$$$P Q$$$b  d$$$P   Qb  b   b..d$$$ b..d$$$
>d$$P"   " Q$$$ Q  $   `Q$$$P  `Q$$$P
>   $$$P   `"""""   """"   Q$$$P "Q$$$P" "Q$$$P"
>   `Q$$P"  """



-- 
What makes you think graduate school is supposed to be satisfying?
-- Erica Jong, "Fear of Flying"


pgpAFoddk3i2o.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] Lost par_port printer after emerge

[Dave Nebinger]

> Hello all,

Hello, James.
 
> After a "emerge --update --deep --newuse world"
> 
> and then
> 
> "env-update && source /etc/profile && updatedb && etc-update"
> 

I hope you had a reason to include "--newuse" as, without the "-e" for empty
tree it's kinda pointless, I believe.

> I used cups to setup the printing and now

Is the cups daemon running?

server root # ps -ef | grep cups
root  6492 1  0 Feb19 ?00:00:09 /usr/sbin/apcupsd
root   515 1  0 Feb22 ?00:01:58 /usr/sbin/cupsd
root 10287 10280  0 14:20 pts/100:00:00 grep cups

> 'man cups' says No manual entry for cups.

That's par for the course.  'man cupsd' or an actual cups executable will
give you the info.

> Ideas are most welcome

Check the printer from http://localhost:631 to see what the status of it
is...

Dave



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Root cannot open display

[Dave Nebinger]

> When I'm logged on as a user, and I try to open gvim or firefox by
> su'ing or sudo'ing as root, I get the following error.
> 
> E233: cannot open display

By default X.org disables tcp access.

To enable root (or another user) to open windows on the display you need to:

1. remove the "-nolisten tcp" from the config files in /etc/X11 and the
startx script (if you start X from the console).
2. use the xhost command to allow users to open windows in your session.

Dave



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] uuencode

[Dave Nebinger]

> Where is uuencode packaged?

I think it's part of uulib.

> What is the correct way way to find this out myself?

esearch -S uuencode

Dave

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB on JFS root partition won't boot (Magically Solved?)

[Dave V]

I can't figure out why, but this problem seems to have magically gone away this 
morning. About the only difference is that I'm now at work and not home, and my 
Ethernet cable is not plugged in. All documentation that I've been able to 
find, says that this will work, and there are stage 1.5's for each of the major 
filesystems. GRUB needs to be able to read the file system and I assume that it 
uses the 1.5 stages to house drivers for whatever filesystem it is expected to 
access. Anyway, not sure what's different, but it seems to be working fine. If 
it happenes again, I'll try and give more details so other can work around 
whatever problem I might have bumped into.

Dave

On (2005-02-28 08:27), Keith Gable wrote:
> I'm pretty sure your boot partition has to be ext2/ext3. HTH.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:58:32 -0500, Dave V <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I just put together a fresh Gentoo System on my laptop. This is the 5th-6th 
> > (starting to lose count) system that I've set up from stage1 and I think 
> > I've finally got it all down. I decided to try JFS instead of ext3 and all 
> > is fine except that I can't boot with GRUB.
> > 
> > I get
> > # GRUB Loading stage1.5.
> > #
> > #
> > # GRUB loading, please wait...
> > and then it goes out to lunch.
> > 
> > I can still get into the system by using a KANOTIX live-cd (knoppix 
> > derivative) that uses grub. Then manually boot with "kernel 
> > (hd0,0)/boot/kernel-2.6.10 vga=791" and the system is doing rather well. 
> > So.. things work if I use grub exterally, but not from the MBR. I'd really 
> > like to avoid making an ext2/3 partition to house grub if I can. Any ideas?
> > 
> > Dave
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Microsoft is a lot better at making money than it is at making good
> operating systems."
> -- Linus Torvalds
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 



pgp0mIDjObyca.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] Newbie Hardware Advice

[Dave Nebinger]

> From personal experience, I can say this:
> DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GET AN ATI CARD.
> 
> I am very happy with my new nVidia card. I went through hell with my
> ATI card. So I greatly recommend nVidia.

>From personal experience, I can say this:
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GET AN NVIDIA CARD.

I am very happy with my new ATI card. I went through hell with my
nVidia card. So I greatly recommend ATI.

Actually I'm not trying to be crass.  But for every response like the one
above you'll get an equally-emphatic opposite response.  I had problems with
nVidia because I had an older card and the later nVidia drivers just
wouldn't work with it.  I had problems with X freezes, etc., that just would
not go away.  Switched over to an ATI card and have had no problems since.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] GRUB on JFS root partition won't boot

[Dave V]

Hello All,

I just put together a fresh Gentoo System on my laptop. This is the 5th-6th 
(starting to lose count) system that I've set up from stage1 and I think I've 
finally got it all down. I decided to try JFS instead of ext3 and all is fine 
except that I can't boot with GRUB.

I get
# GRUB Loading stage1.5.
#
#
# GRUB loading, please wait...
and then it goes out to lunch.

I can still get into the system by using a KANOTIX live-cd (knoppix derivative) 
that uses grub. Then manually boot with "kernel (hd0,0)/boot/kernel-2.6.10 
vga=791" and the system is doing rather well. So.. things work if I use grub 
exterally, but not from the MBR. I'd really like to avoid making an ext2/3 
partition to house grub if I can. Any ideas?

Dave



pgpv11I9GFA7e.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [gentoo-user] search emerge

[Dave Nebinger]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ # time emerge --searchdesc analyzer
> Searching...  -/usr/lib/portage/bin/ebuild.sh: line 21:
> ...
> real22m48.548s
> user18m54.880s
> sys 3m29.307s

do an "emerge --meta" which might help a little.

> Second, is this the only way to see all of the packages in a specific
> folder?
> (And is folder the correct term to use here?)  Is there a tool or utility
> which will show all packages, perhaps in a tree format?

$ ls /usr/portage/net-analyzer


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: A perfect example - was RE: [gentoo-user] Reply-To: header seems broken-- OT question stimulated by this thread

[Dave Nebinger]

> I know that today I sent two messages back to the people who originally
> posted when I really wanted it to go back to the list.  Yes I was not
> thinking and just did a reply (which should have gone to the list).

That's just it - the thought process should go into which messages go to the
list, not which messages go to the OP.

Of course the OP should always get the reply, but the list as a whole should
not.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: A perfect example - was RE: [gentoo-user] Reply-To: header seems broken-- OT question stimulated by this thread

[Dave Nebinger]

> Yes, but the point of the list is to tell the list, not that one person
> alone. Had all 7 replies been to the OP, then no one else who wanted the
> answer, now or in the future, would know what the answer was.

The broken 'reply to' means that you don't have to think about where your
replies go, a shortcut I'm sure many folks like but is not a good thing
IMHO.

A working 'reply to' means that each responder must consider whether the
information they're returning is something the list needs to know or if it's
specific for the OP.

Had all seven replied to the OP does not mean the answer would have lost; as
many have pointed out a simple google search would have delivered the same
information.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

A perfect example - was RE: [gentoo-user] Reply-To: header seems broken-- OT question stimulated by this thread

[Dave Nebinger]

This is a perfect example of why the 'reply to' thing was originally broken,
recently fixed, and today reset back to the broken state.

One person posts an OT message that is quite easily resolved by doing a
simple google search.

But since the 'reply to' is broken again, we get 7 different replies telling
the whole list, rather than the one person, how to find out what the acronym
means.

Andrea, I'm sorry if you felt flogged by folks wanting the old modus
operandi in place; you were right in the first place to have fixed the
'reply to'.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Unattended sftp?

[Dave Nebinger]

> I think you're right.  Does this mean anyone could easily intercept my
> login and password and log in as me?

The basic answer for this is "yes".  Definitely your password could be
intercepted and used by others.

But consider for a minute what is involved with that...

Someone floating out there on the net would have to be intercepting packets.
And the packets that you're sending would need to flow over the same path to
the endpoint (not guaranteed by IP).  And they would need to be able to
filter the mass of packets going by their system to get the one(s) with your
password information.  And they would initially have to identify a need to
get your password in order to target your packets for capture.

Granted all of this is indeed doable, but IMHO it's like looking for a
particular atom in a haystack, let alone the needle...




--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Unattended sftp?

[Dave Nebinger]

> I'm also concerned about sending my
> password for these systems over the internet in clear text.

Ah, you're doing that whether you are doing it manually or automagically via
a cron task.  So if you're not worried about the manual upload, why worry
about the automated upload?

Based on the systems you've mentioned (google & yahoo), alternate methods
(i.e. sftp, scp, etc.) might not be available to you.  Wput will work for
uploading via ftp and it's probably going to be your only option.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] New Gentoo installation won't let me set root'spasswd [SOLVED]

[Dave Nebinger]

> Hope you have a spare week or so with a machine that slow. :)

Either that or a distcc compile farm, which is what I use for keeping a
gentoo p133 system up to date...



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] New Gentoo installation won't let me set root'spasswd [SOLVED]

[Dave Nebinger]

> >From /etc/make.conf:
> 
> CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -fomit-frame-pointer"
> CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
> CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
> MAKEOPTS="-j2"
> 
> 
> The machine is has a Pentium MMX 199MgHz processor, so I'm not sure if
> the i686 is right (I thought i686 was a Pentium II) so I changed CHOST
> to x86 and changed CFLAGS to i586 and re-emerged shadow.  It let me set
> the password...

Ah, but if you built the box from gentoo stage 1 or 2, you're probably going
to want to start all over again (not necessary if built from stage 3).

Likely the entire system was built using the i686 architecture and you'll
run into other problems (i.e. illegal instruction errors) as time goes on.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Need help with apache2 setup

[Dave Nebinger]

> I am trying to setup apache2, but I cannot get access from outside my
> machine. I have it set to listen on port 8000 and have that forwarded
> from my router, however, I can only connect to the server locally and
> only by specifying 127.0.0.1:8000. Outside of the machine, all I get is
> connection refused.

Are you running iptables?  You might have a rule which blocks external
entities.

Are you running tcp-wrappers?  You might need to add an entry to
/etc/hosts.allow to allow the connection from your router.

Anyways it doesn't sound like an apache issue, but more of a security issue.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] ntfs vs *nix fs

[Dave Nebinger]

> I had a google but didn't find anything. Anyone know of any
> investigations trying to measure ntfs vs other *nix fss? I know that it
> is a bit like comparing apples with oranges but might be nice.

Last I heard write support to ntfs was still classified as experimental.  I
don't know that I'd want to use it even if the performance was tens of times
faster than other unix filesystems.

That said, I would have to guess that with the amount of emulation needed to
ensure the ntfs partition would be compatible with windows the performance,
at best, would be on par with unix filesystems but, more likely, would not
perform as well.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] mysterious lockups

[Dave Nebinger]

> On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 08:27:42AM -0800, Bob Sanders wrote:
> > Typically it's the graphics drivers hanging the AGP bus.  But you
> > didn't memtion if you were running xscreensaver.  If you're
> > running xscreensaver, do -
> > Then, when it hang again, ssh in and killall xscreensaver.
> 
> Well, a lockup happened again last night (of course *not* while I
> was using the computer).  Funny thing is, I can ping the locked
> machine, and it responds as though everything was okay.  But I
> cannot ssh into the computer.  ssh does not timeout (like it would
> if the host were down); after I type "ssh host" and press enter, it
> just sits there---I let it sit there for about 30 minutes before I
> got impatient and hard-rebooted the machine.

Ssh will react like this when there is significant load on the target
machine.  Same thing happened to me when I had an ebuild that started
forking like crazy.  The system was so busy spawning and reclaiming
processes that it appeared to freeze (even the screen saver was stuck).

Are the lockups occurring at a consistent time?  If so, you might be able to
track down a cron or at task that might be hammering your system...

> 
> > Look in /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/card
> > ...
> > If you have SBA and Fast Writes on, try turning them
> > off - /etc/modules.d/nvidia
> 
> I'm hesitant to try this, only because the lockups are so random.
> It's been almost two weeks since it last happened; I have a feeling
> that I could get lucky and it won't happen again forever (or it
> could happen in the next five minutes).  Either way, it's hard to
> determine the solution when I make a change and then just wait.

My lockups were from the nvidia drivers.  Swapped out nvidia for a radeon
card and had no lockups since.

So do give this a try; if it eliminates the lockups then it will be well
worth it for you.



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list