Re: Clockwork Orange (was Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick)
Iain Noble wrote lotsa sensible stuff and: > perhaps you ought to see 'Red > Dragon' an earlier film about the first Hannibal Lecter novel with > Brian Cox as the good doctor which is rather better. sorry, being nitpicky, but that movie was called "Manhunter", tho I believe it was based on the novel red dragon. And yes, I would agree it is in many ways superior to ...Lambs. As someone finally reaching the end of a coupla years' writing a book about someone whose plays depict murderous Jews, the brutal torture of a homosexual king, Catholic terrorists slaughtering innocent Protestants, and a shepherd-turned-world conquerer who put Attila the Hun in the shade, I'd have to agree that it is possible to create great art out of unpalatable source material. Stevie (wasting time P2ing when I should be concentrating on the race between me delivering my manuscript and my wife delivering our second child any day now...)
Re: Clockwork Orange (was Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick)
Tom Mohr wrote:
>
>Regarding "A Clockwork Orange", Iain Noble wrote:
>>
>>
>> If I'm baffled by anything it's Tom's description of the film as
>> 'decadent' and 'appalling'. I think he's confusing depiction with
>> approval.
>
>and
>
>> You might
>> disapprove of what something shows or says but that doesn't mean
>> it's bad art.
>
>I've tried before to articulate my disgust with this film, and I
>usually end up pointing to another Chicago critic:
>
>>> A Clockwork Orange
> Capsule by Dave Kehr
> From the Chicago Reader
>
>A very bad film--snide, barely competent, and overdrawn--that enjoys a
>perennial popularity, perhaps because its
>confused moral position appeals to the secret Nietzscheans within us.
>It's a movie that Leopold and Loeb would
>have loved, endorsing brutality in the name of nonconformism. At best,
>Stanley Kubrick's 1971 film suggests an
>Animal House with bogus intellectual trappings. But the trappings--the
>rationalizations and spurious
>arguments--are what make it genuinely irresponsible, genuinely
>abhorrent. With Malcolm McDowell, Patrick
>Magee, and Michael Bates. <<
>
>A number of friends have told me to see "Silence of the Lambs", and
>I've avoided it for the same reasons that I dislike
>"Clockwork Orange". I don't think you can make a good movie (or good
>art) about serial killers who eat people or about
>amoral rapists.
>
Which only goes to confirm my original objections. The use of the
term 'decadent' with reference to art (and Kubrick's films are art)
almost invariably articulates and conceals a moral or political
agenda while appearing to make an aesthetic judgement. The best
analysis of this I know is Wilde's preface to later editions of
'The Picture of Dorian Gray'.
As for 'I don't think you can make a good movie (or good
>art) about serial killers who eat people or about
>amoral rapists', my simple answer is of course you can. Art of all
kinds would be immeasurably poorer without various depictions and
analyses of appalling behaviour from Sophocles to Hitchcock.
Your Chicago critic is simply wrong. Burgess' book is most
emphatically anti-Nietzschean, as a Catholic conservative he was
trying to demonstrate the crucial importance of morality and ethics
- exemplified by religion - as the very essence of social bonds, the
message of the book is that it cannot be replaced by either
repressive control or by technical fixes aimed at
'curing' the offender ('re-education' as they used to call it in
China). It may be that the film fails to carry this theme across
effectively (which may account for Burgess' dislike of it) but I
found it there. And I must agree to differ with your critic's
assessment of the film's technical merits too. And I never saw the
slightest hint of Kubrick's justifying the actions of the droogs.
As for the comparison with 'Silence of the Lambs' this simply does
not work. This is a standard Hollywood pot-boiler (enriched by a
thick slice of overripe Welsh ham), perhaps you ought to see 'Red
Dragon' an earlier film about the first Hannibal Lecter novel with
Brian Cox as the good doctor which is rather better. The use of
music is good in that too. But neither can compare with the
slightest of Kubrick's work.
--
Iain Noble
Hound Dog Research, Survey and Social Research Consultancy,
28A Collegiate Crescent Sheffield S10 2BA UK
Phone/fax: (+44) (0)114 267 1394 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
Re: Clockwork Orange (was Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick)
In a message dated 3/10/99 11:02:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << At best, Stanley Kubrick's 1971 film suggests an Animal House with bogus intellectual trappings. But the trappings--the rationalizations and spurious arguments--are what make it genuinely irresponsible, genuinely abhorrent. >> There seems to be a bit of faulty logic here, comparing Clockwork to a film made 8 or so years later. Wouldn't Animal House have had to precede Clockwork in order for this analogy to be valid? I think that the point of this film has been completely lost on the moralists who can't see past the actions onscreen to the deeper meaning. The theme was an anti-Behavior Modification statement, and Kubrick chose to express that theme in the most graphic way he could think of. If you feel it was too much, well, art is purely subjective, isn't it? If you were apalled, then he got his point across. Clockwork Orange is a masterpiece, and will always be one of the most important films ever made. Slim
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
lance davis wrote: > Clockwork as appalling? Um, I think that was the point. (I also think it is > cunningly funny, and generally not recognized as such, but that's a longer > story). One of Kubrick's consistent themes was the pretensions, hypocrisies, > and fragilities of those in power, and how these people create, quite often, > miserable effects for those underneath them. In Paths of Glory it's the > hypocrisies of the French and British armies. In Dr. Strangelove, it's the > buffoons in the War Room. In Lolita, it's the manipulative and lecherous > Humbert Humbert. In Clockwork, it's the notion that the State can "fix" > those who are "broken." True enough (don't remember Brits in PoG) and I agree. I'd add though that Tom's shown pretty good taste on a bunch of things here and is one of those folks whose posts I pay particular attention to. (Even if sometimes they're cool Chicago shows I'll never see) I can cut him some slack on this matter of taste. b.s. n.p. Beck ONE FOOT IN THE GRAVE
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Clockwork as appalling? Um, I think that was the point. (I also think it is cunningly funny, and generally not recognized as such, but that's a longer story). One of Kubrick's consistent themes was the pretensions, hypocrisies, and fragilities of those in power, and how these people create, quite often, miserable effects for those underneath them. In Paths of Glory it's the hypocrisies of the French and British armies. In Dr. Strangelove, it's the buffoons in the War Room. In Lolita, it's the manipulative and lecherous Humbert Humbert. In Clockwork, it's the notion that the State can "fix" those who are "broken." In The Shining, it's Jack Nicholson. In relentlessly mocking and exposing the abuses of those in power--politically and socially--Kubrick provided a forum for penetrating (and sardonic) cynicism that has never been equaled in film. His works are so artfully created--from frame-to-frame, in fact--that any filmmaker who tries to cover similar territory (I'm thinking of Ollie Stone) generally reveals himself to be a weightless charlatan. In the end, Kubrick has set the bar awfully high, and only the most dedicated of movie directors deserve to be spoken of in the same breath. Lance . . .
Clockwork Orange (was Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick)
Regarding "A Clockwork Orange", Iain Noble wrote: > > > If I'm baffled by anything it's Tom's description of the film as > 'decadent' and 'appalling'. I think he's confusing depiction with > approval. and > You might > disapprove of what something shows or says but that doesn't mean > it's bad art. I've tried before to articulate my disgust with this film, and I usually end up pointing to another Chicago critic: >> A Clockwork Orange Capsule by Dave Kehr From the Chicago Reader A very bad film--snide, barely competent, and overdrawn--that enjoys a perennial popularity, perhaps because its confused moral position appeals to the secret Nietzscheans within us. It's a movie that Leopold and Loeb would have loved, endorsing brutality in the name of nonconformism. At best, Stanley Kubrick's 1971 film suggests an Animal House with bogus intellectual trappings. But the trappings--the rationalizations and spurious arguments--are what make it genuinely irresponsible, genuinely abhorrent. With Malcolm McDowell, Patrick Magee, and Michael Bates. << A number of friends have told me to see "Silence of the Lambs", and I've avoided it for the same reasons that I dislike "Clockwork Orange". I don't think you can make a good movie (or good art) about serial killers who eat people or about amoral rapists. http://onfilm.chireader.com/MovieCaps/C/CL/02005_CLOCKWORK_ORANGE.html -- Tom Mohr at the office: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and when the office server is down: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Blockbuster isn't a monopoly but they have a large share of the video market. Other chains such as West Coast and Tower seem to be viable, and there are plenty of independent video stores in business, knock wood. When Wayne Huizenga (also the man who gutted the Florida Marlins and fired Don Shula) ran Blockbuster, they did edit videos, and if I remember correctly, they didn't distributed Last Temptation of Christ at all. Since he sold to Paramount/Viacom, I don't know if that still happens; I haven't been inside a Blockbuster for years. Carl Z. Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 10-Mar-99 Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick by Stevie Simkin@interalpha > Am I right in thinking that blockbuster have the monopoly over there, and that > they release their own edited versions of controversial videos? Is there a > Christian as chairman of the board? Or is all this vicious rumour? Just > wondering. Respond off-list, Dan, anyone, if you want to kill off this particul > ar > off-topic topic. >
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Anyway, things aren't all that much better over here with all the > closings of independent video outlets and the effective banning of "Lolita" > and "Last Temptation of Christ" through sudden mysterious fire code-violations > and "Hollywood distribution fears", etc.. There's a lot of scared and small- > minded folk in this world. Am I right in thinking that blockbuster have the monopoly over there, and that they release their own edited versions of controversial videos? Is there a Christian as chairman of the board? Or is all this vicious rumour? Just wondering. Respond off-list, Dan, anyone, if you want to kill off this particular off-topic topic. Stevie
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Stevie explained; > And it remains unavailable legitmately. And yes, Dan, our venerable British > Board of Film Classification has a pretty tight grip on video over here. I' > m expecting things to loosen up a little now that James Ferman (an expat Yank!) > > has gone. I hear that The Exorcist is finally getting a certificate. That's > one that Ferman thought was likely to have a disturbing effect on teenage > girls, and consequently was refused a certificate. He also has a bee in his > bonnet about drug abuse, and took his shears to scenes in Pulp Fiction and > Trainspotting (on vid) as a consequence. Good god; you guys should take his Yankee ass and boil it in the Tower dungeon. When I saw over there I actually took a tour of the London Dungeon, whatwith all of the reenactments of boilings, draw-and-quarterings, stretchings, etc etc. It''ll plant all kinds of ideas in your head depending on how many enemies you have in this world . Anyway, things aren't all that much better over here with all the closings of independent video outlets and the effective banning of "Lolita" and "Last Temptation of Christ" through sudden mysterious fire code-violations and "Hollywood distribution fears", etc.. There's a lot of scared and small- minded folk in this world. But I'm serious-you guys oughta just fry that so-called American assmunch. You have my permission. dan bentele
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
>Roger Ebert on "Clockwork Orange": > >>>Kubrick's ``A Clockwork Orange'' (1971) starred Malcolm McDowell >as a violent lout in a fearsome world of the near future; its prophetic > vision was so disturbing that the movie is banned in Britain to this > day.<< > >( http://www.suntimes.com/output/showcase/kub08i.html ) > >Tom Mohr on "Clockwork Orange": > >>>Absolutely astonishing that Kubrick could, in three years, go from the >brilliant heights of "2001" to the decadent depths of "A Clockwork Orange." > >An appalling movie. Its appeal is utterly baffling.<< > >-- >Tom Mohr First let's get it clear about 'Clockwork Orange'. The film was withdrawn from circulation in this country by Kubrick himself after several UK tabloids launched a moral panic about copy cat attacks shortly after the film came out. It has never been banned by the Board of Film Censors, or any other authority, over here and was, indeed, approved for showing by them. In recent years Kubrick took legal action on a number of occasions to stop public showing of bootleg videos of the film in the UK. Just why he withdrew the film and kept it withdrawn can only be a matter of speculation but my take is that he simply didn't want the hassle of coping with our gutter press. I'm one of the few people here who actually saw it in a cinema. I'd read the book a few years earlier when I was learning Russian (the argot spoken by the 'droogs' is based on Russian, Anthony Burgess - a fellow Lancastrian - was a former teacher of Russian). Visiting my parents in S London late in the summer of 1973 I was strolling past the local Odeon and noticed a billing for the film (it was palying there in some sort of unpublicised preview before the main opening in the West End), so I went in. I had the great fortune to take a seat next to a classic S London skinhead and seeing and hearing his reactions gave me a whole new perspective. If I'm baffled by anything it's Tom's description of the film as 'decadent' and 'appalling'. I think he's confusing depiction with approval. Both the book and the film set out to depict appalling behaviour which they see as the result of social decadence (the book especially so, which is far more moralistic than the film - for what it's worth Burgess hated the film). I have seen the film only once but I remember an astonishing and powerful work of art (albeit a flawed one), which epitomises Kubrick's ability to combine the commercial with the artistic in a way few other directors have ever managed (Hitchcock being the only consistently better). You might disapprove of what something shows or says but that doesn't mean it's bad art. On the other hand I found '2001' quite the least of his work (along with 'Barry Lyndon') as it seems fundamentally incoherent (not usually a fault of Kubrick) and have never been able to understand the hippy mystic awe it is held in in some quarters. I also used to know what the Russians were saying in '2001' as I could speak the language at the time. But I've forgotten. I do recall, however, it wasn't significant. -- Iain Noble Hound Dog Research, Survey and Social Research Consultancy, 28A Collegiate Crescent Sheffield S10 2BA UK Phone/fax: (+44) (0)114 267 1394 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Stevie wrote: >If you're wondering why all this is, it's worth bearing in mind that we had >19 years of an unbelievably repressive Tory government that even managed to >outlaw the "promotion" of homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle in >education and cultural contexts. "This song promotes homosexuality/ It's in a pretended family relationship/ With the other ones on this record/ And on the radio/ And in the clubs and on the jukebox." - Mekons, "Empire of the Senseless" I believe Tinky Winky, carl w.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
> > > My understanding is that the film inspired some rapes and other > crimes in Great Britain that seem to have unnerved Kubrick. I think the issue was more a spate of muggings of tramps. > The film had > been on the British market for about a year when it was removed from > theatres at Kubrick's request. And it remains unavailable legitmately. And yes, Dan, our venerable British Board of Film Classification has a pretty tight grip on video over here. I'm expecting things to loosen up a little now that James Ferman (an expat Yank!) has gone. I hear that The Exorcist is finally getting a certificate. That's one that Ferman thought was likely to have a disturbing effect on teenage girls, and consequently was refused a certificate. He also has a bee in his bonnet about drug abuse, and took his shears to scenes in Pulp Fiction and Trainspotting (on vid) as a consequence. Natural Born Killers is more like Clockwork Orange, being pulled by the company from its release schedule in the wake of the Dunblane massacre. I'm showing Straw Dogs to my students next week, and have to hire a 16mm print from the British Film Institute as that's another that has been refused a certificate on video. If you're wondering why all this is, it's worth bearing in mind that we had 19 years of an unbelievably repressive Tory government that even managed to outlaw the "promotion" of homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle in education and cultural contexts. OK. that's my quota of off-topic used up for the month. Anyone catch the Buckner/Prophet double bill? Stevie
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
William F. Silvers writes: >Do you know if was Kubrick's own doing? Interesting? My understanding is that the film inspired some rapes and other crimes in Great Britain that seem to have unnerved Kubrick. The film had been on the British market for about a year when it was removed from theatres at Kubrick's request. --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Ian Durkacz wrote: > >I'm thinking of "Paths Of Glory" with Kirk Douglas, Ralph Meeker and > > the wonderful Adolphe Menjou. > > That is a fabulous and powerful film. > > As a related note, the obituary for Kubrick published here in > yesterday's 'Guardian' newspaper here (see > http://www.filmunlimited.co.uk/news/0308/kubrick1.html, and further > links) mentions that that film "was banned in France until relatively > recently because of its unflattering depiction of the French army". > Amazing. I noticed this from the URL you gave (thanks) regarding "A Clockwork Orange" > Does wayward human > intelligence and instinct frighten Kubrick? > That's what one feels in the very powerful > Clockwork Orange, a film so disturbing or > dangerous that Kubrick has had it banned > in the one territory he controls - that of > Britain. > Do you know if was Kubrick's own doing? Interesting? b.s.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Ian Durkacz wrote: > > I'm thinking of "Paths Of Glory" with Kirk Douglas, Ralph Meeker and > > the wonderful Adolphe Menjou. > > That is a fabulous and powerful film. > > As a related note, the obituary for Kubrick published here in > yesterday's 'Guardian' newspaper here (see > http://www.filmunlimited.co.uk/news/0308/kubrick1.html, and further > links) mentions that that film "was banned in France until relatively > recently because of its unflattering depiction of the French army". > Amazing. Well, maybe, maybe not. The French Army did experience a pretty general mutiny in 1917, which the movie represents in miniature, and hundreds were executed, either like those guys in "Paths Of Glory" or by the simpler expedient of having them shelled much as the general attempts to do in the film. It's understandable to me that this wasn't considered desirable entertainment by the French censors. Indeed, until the Vietnam War, I wonder how many similar depictions of cowardice, treachery, and malfeasance by commanders would have been seen by the US moviegoing public?And Ian, BTW, was "A Clockwork Orange" in fact banned in the UK as was reported here? "A Clockwork Orange" was my favorite movie for years, and while I can understand why others have quite the opposite reaction, I wondered why it was banned. b.s. n.p. Strawbs HALCYON DAYS
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Ian Durkacz writes: > ."Paths Of Glory" "was banned in France until relatively > recently because of its unflattering depiction of the French army". > Amazing. Really? There's a way to depict the French army in a *flattering* light? "Take our women and children. Strip our nation of its national treasures. But please leave us free to make our creamy sauces!" --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
> My brother - who's > a year younger than me - was horrified by the movie. "Quit laughing, > Jon! This isn't funny! Nuclear war isn't funny!" You gotta admit tho, Jon, *that* is brilliant. bio-chemical war ain't funny either, dan n.p. uhh..."Masters Of War", or something like that.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick (zero twang)
Stevie writes; > and he said, 'banning > videos - what a quaint idea'. It's a bloody weird country, Britain. Is this true? I know Britain has tight libel laws, and I think I've heard of certain books being banned, but videos as well? Who's the arbiter in this? And how do they resolve that with Murdoch's newspapers with all the naked chicks next to the football scores??? sorry for the off-topic nature, but this is too rich! dan
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Ian Durkacz wrote: > ."Paths Of Glory" "was banned in France until relatively > recently because of its unflattering depiction of the French army". > Amazing. > > As if! French thread anyone? Sorry, but theyre talking basketball on Twangfest. Which reminds me. Someone mentioned the Damnations appearing at Twangfest. Is this true? Is the lineup set? Stuart
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Bill Silvers wrote: > I'm thinking of "Paths Of Glory" with Kirk Douglas, Ralph Meeker and > the wonderful Adolphe Menjou. That is a fabulous and powerful film. As a related note, the obituary for Kubrick published here in yesterday's 'Guardian' newspaper here (see http://www.filmunlimited.co.uk/news/0308/kubrick1.html, and further links) mentions that that film "was banned in France until relatively recently because of its unflattering depiction of the French army". Amazing. +-- ///\ Ian Durkacz --+ |C-oo Department of Automatic Control & Systems Engineering | |\ > The University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England| +--- \_v e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick (zero twang)
I teach a module that looks at early modern revenge tragedy in relation to violent cinema of the past 20-30 years. Clockwork Orange constantly comes up in debates. A mate of mine finally got me a (French sub-titled) version in Switzerland so that I can show some clips to my students. Natural Born Killers I have to show with, I dunno, Dutch subtitles I think it is. I told my friend Malcolm in LA that I had no access to Texas Chainsaw Massacre on video (tho it recently had a limited re-release theatrically over here) and he said, 'banning videos - what a quaint idea'. It's a bloody weird country, Britain. Did you know that we still have a Queen, princes and princesses, dragons and fairy godmothers, too? Stevie Thomas W. Mohr wrote: > Tom Mohr on "Clockwork Orange": > > >>Absolutely astonishing that Kubrick could, in three years, go from the > brilliant heights of "2001" to the decadent depths of "A Clockwork Orange." > > An appalling movie. Its appeal is utterly baffling.<<
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bob Soron wrote: > At 10:07 PM -0500 on 3/7/99, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Okay, enough already. 100 times? Wow. > > But don't you wish you had some one piece of entertainment that had > that effect on you? _The Empire Strikes Back_, and, to a lesser extent, _Star Wars_ and _Return of the Jedi_. Saw _Star Wars_ for the first time in 1977 at the age of four and never looked back... Tom "he had to ask, didn't he?" Stoodley
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
> >My favorite Kubrick movie is "The Killing," a film noir from the late > >50s, I think (pre-Lolita anyhow). The dialogue was written by Jim > >Thompson. It's hilarious. The heaviness of the later films would let > >you forget that Kubrick had a hell of a sense of humor once. > H . . . I wonder if Tarantino ever watched this one while trying to get > ideas for Reservoir Dogs? : ) "The Killing" is definitely a classic -- of late period film noir and of the entire "heist" genre. Many elements of Tarantino's RD can be traced to Kubrik's heist film, but RD is definitely not the only thief in that regard!!! RIP Stanley! Np Also Sprach Zarathustra ... ___ Robert A. Russell Director, Writing and Communication Center East Tennessee State University Box 70602 Johnson City, TN 37614 Phone: (423) 439-8438 Fax: (423) 439-8666 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.etsu.edu/wcc *** "Objective evidence and certitude are doubtless very fine ideals to play with but where on this moonlit and dream-visited planet are they found?" -- William James, 1842-1910, "The Will to Believe"
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
At 10:07 PM -0500 on 3/7/99, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ><< OTOH, I've seen 2001 countless times, far more than 100 > certainly, last a restored widescreen print on the largest movie screen > in Boston on my birthday. That film still never ceases to amaze me, and > I still find stuff I've never seen before. >> > >Change all the pertinent info cited above appropriately and what you >got here >is a classic case of DeadHeaditis. Do you trade bootleg copies of 2001 with >your friends? When they screen the movie in your neighborhood do they have a >special section roped off for tapers? And how often do you shower? No, Dark Star is the scifi film for Deadheads. I saw it once and dozed off, though not as fast as Dr. Strangelove put me under. >Okay, enough already. 100 times? Wow. But don't you wish you had some one piece of entertainment that had that effect on you? Baiting, Bob
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Roger Ebert on "Clockwork Orange": >>Kubrick's ``A Clockwork Orange'' (1971) starred Malcolm McDowell as a violent lout in a fearsome world of the near future; its prophetic vision was so disturbing that the movie is banned in Britain to this day.<< ( http://www.suntimes.com/output/showcase/kub08i.html ) Tom Mohr on "Clockwork Orange": >>Absolutely astonishing that Kubrick could, in three years, go from the brilliant heights of "2001" to the decadent depths of "A Clockwork Orange." An appalling movie. Its appeal is utterly baffling.<< -- Tom Mohr at the office: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p.s. RIP Joe DiMaggio
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
In a message dated 3/8/99 3:37:45 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Yes. Tarantino said as much when he was promoting Pulp Fiction. Carl Z. >> Pulp Fiction, now THAT'S the one with Slim Whitman, right? Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 8-Mar-99 Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick by "lance davis"@simplecom. > H . . . I wonder if Tarantino ever watched this one while trying to get > ideas for Reservoir Dogs Yes. Tarantino said as much when he was promoting Pulp Fiction. Carl Z.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
>My favorite Kubrick movie is "The Killing," a film noir from the late >50s, I think (pre-Lolita anyhow). The dialogue was written by Jim >Thompson. It's hilarious. The heaviness of the later films would let >you forget that Kubrick had a hell of a sense of humor once. >Will Miner >Denver, CO H . . . I wonder if Tarantino ever watched this one while trying to get ideas for Reservoir Dogs? : ) Lance . . .
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
I thought I'd share my first Kubrick experience, given the circumstances. The first time I saw "Dr. Strangelove" (which was, I believe, the first Kubrick movie I ever saw) was around 1974 or so. I was ten or so and my family was visiting our cousins in Kansas City and it happened to come on. My father had been up until about two years previously a navigator/bombardier in B-52s, flying missions in Vietnam as well as flying the kinds of "failsafe" missions that you see in "Dr. Strangelove," though at this point he was flying FB-111s. So we grew up in that whole atmosphere. Anyway, the movie comes on and I thought it was the funniest damn thing I'd ever seen. A comedy about nuclear war! Brilliant! My cousin Jeff and I laughed our asses off all the way through. My brother - who's a year younger than me - was horrified by the movie. "Quit laughing, Jon! This isn't funny! Nuclear war isn't funny!" And then he started crying! Whadda wuss. Man, I'd love to see the version with the pie fight at the end just once. --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
> > . Three P2ers, three classic films, three > >memorials. Who'll go for four? > >b.s. > > I'm Spartacus!... > Honey, I'm home! .. > h; that smarts!... > Now close the pod bay doors, Hal. > > But you can't quote the lighting in Barry Lyndon. You can't quote the lighting in "Full Metal Jacket" (esp the opening boot camp sequence of Lee Ermey circling the barracks) or "The Shining" (anything interior) or any of 2001 either. I don't know how he did it, but that hot (or is it cold?) flat light he achieved was very eerie in all cases. Same in the war room scenes in "Dr. Strangelove". > > Barry not Lyndon. > > We'll meet again. Don't know where; don't know when. > > >
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
>> Uh, Carl, that's Slim Pickens. > >Damned flouride. Uh, Carl, that's "fluoride." See what it's done to you? --Jamie S., who just noticed that the "more rockabilly than thou" Kim Lenz will be playing during SxSW. What with missing both her and Neko Case, my husband is beginning to *seriously* regret not coming along. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wavetech.net/~swedberg http://www.usinternet.com/users/ndteegarden/bheaters
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 7-Mar-99 Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick by [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Uh, Carl, that's Slim Pickens. Damned flouride. Carl Z.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick/Slim Pickins
Jeff Wall wrote: > >> > >><< In his honor, tonite I will have a toast and recite as many lines as I > can > >> remember from "Dr. Strangelove," especially Slim Pickens famous patriotic > >> speech to his men. >> > > Hell, I miss Slim Pickens. Strangelove, Honeysuckle Rose, Blazing Saddles. > I loved that sumbitch. And don't forget "Pat Garret & Billy The Kid". Not only Kris K and Bobby D, but a great turn by Slim, and you'll never hear "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" the same again. Dallas np: George
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
In a message dated 3/8/99 3:41:46 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << ADD: three great performances, and George C. Scott, and Slim Whitman. Carl >> Uh, Carl, that's Slim Pickens. Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road (as for Laurence Olivier in "Sparticus;" Come, wash my back!)
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
>> >><< In his honor, tonite I will have a toast and recite as many lines as I can >> remember from "Dr. Strangelove," especially Slim Pickens famous patriotic >> speech to his men. >> Hell, I miss Slim Pickens. Strangelove, Honeysuckle Rose, Blazing Saddles. I loved that sumbitch. Jeff Wall http://www.twangzine.com The Webs least sucky music magazine 3421 Daisy Crescent - Va Beach, Va - 23456
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
My mailer is doing strange things Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 7-Mar-99 Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick by Carl Abraham Zimring@and > I'll take Dr. Strangelove for Peter > Sellers's ADD: three great performances, and George C. Scott, and Slim Whitman. Carl checking for flouride in the water
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 7-Mar-99 Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick by Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] > My favorite Kubrick movie is "The Killing," a film noir from the late > 50s, I think (pre-Lolita anyhow). 1956. It's Kubrick's best American film, taking place almost entirely at a racetrack and featuring a splendid performance by Sterling Hayden. It's a great crime film but I'll take Dr. Strangelove for Peter Sellers's Between George Jones's accident, Dusty Springfield succumbing to cancer, Del Close (the mind behind Second City's best improv comedy over the past 40 years) dying and now Kubrick, it's been an awful week for accomplished artists. Carl Z.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
My favorite Kubrick movie is "The Killing," a film noir from the late 50s, I think (pre-Lolita anyhow). The dialogue was written by Jim Thompson. It's hilarious. The heaviness of the later films would let you forget that Kubrick had a hell of a sense of humor once. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
<< OTOH, I've seen 2001 countless times, far more than 100 certainly, last a restored widescreen print on the largest movie screen in Boston on my birthday. That film still never ceases to amaze me, and I still find stuff I've never seen before. >> Change all the pertinent info cited above appropriately and what you got here is a classic case of DeadHeaditis. Do you trade bootleg copies of 2001 with your friends? When they screen the movie in your neighborhood do they have a special section roped off for tapers? And how often do you shower? Okay, enough already. 100 times? Wow. Nanoo nanoo. NW
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
At 8:38 PM -0600 on 3/7/99, lance davis wrote: >"Wendy, gimme the bat. Wendy! I'm not gonna hurt ya . . . I'm just gonna >bash your fuckin' brains in!" > >"Gentlemen, please! No fighting in the War Room." Personally, I fell asleep during Dr. Strangelove, and only because the film was the most boring I'd ever seen at the time. Once again off the mainstream. OTOH, I've seen 2001 countless times, far more than 100 certainly, last a restored widescreen print on the largest movie screen in Boston on my birthday. That film still never ceases to amaze me, and I still find stuff I've never seen before. (But I still wish I knew what the Soviets were saying after running into Floyd in the space station.) And as I told Tracy, I wish Kubrick could have stayed with us just two more years. Bob
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
. Three P2ers, three classic films, three >memorials. Who'll go for four? >b.s. I'm Spartacus!... Honey, I'm home! .. h; that smarts!... Now close the pod bay doors, Hal. But you can't quote the lighting in Barry Lyndon. Barry not Lyndon. We'll meet again. Don't know where; don't know when.
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
"Wendy, gimme the bat. Wendy! I'm not gonna hurt ya . . . I'm just gonna bash your fuckin' brains in!" "Gentlemen, please! No fighting in the War Room." Lance . . . np--Singin' in the Rain
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
At 09:17 PM 3/7/1999 EST, Slim followed Mitch with: >In a message dated 3/7/99 7:15:50 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >writes: > ><< In his honor, tonite I will have a toast and recite as many lines as I can > remember from "Dr. Strangelove," especially Slim Pickens famous patriotic > speech to his men. >> > > >And I will listen to Beethoven's 9th symphony and spend a little quality time >with me droogies. > >Slim I'm thinking of "Paths Of Glory" with Kirk Douglas, Ralph Meeker and the wonderful Adolphe Menjou. Three P2ers, three classic films, three memorials. Who'll go for four? b.s. "The truth ain't always what we need, sometimes we need to hear a beautiful lie." -Bill Lloyd
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
In a message dated 3/7/99 7:15:50 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << In his honor, tonite I will have a toast and recite as many lines as I can remember from "Dr. Strangelove," especially Slim Pickens famous patriotic speech to his men. >> And I will listen to Beethoven's 9th symphony and spend a little quality time with me droogies. Slim
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
In his honor, tonite I will have a toast and recite as many lines as I can remember from "Dr. Strangelove," especially Slim Pickens famous patriotic speech to his men. Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road (Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream?)
RIP Stanley Kubrick
Director Stanley Kubrick Dies Filed at 4:27 p.m. EST By The Associated Press LONDON (AP) -- Stanley Kubrick, the director of ``2001: A Space Odyssey'' and ``A Clockwork Orange,'' whose films often puzzled and shocked audiences only to end up as classics, died Sunday at his home in England, his family said. He was 70. Police were summoned to Kubrick's rural home north of London on Sunday afternoon, said authorities in Hertfordshire, where he was certified dead. ``There are no suspicious circumstances,'' police said. Kubrick's family announced his death, and said there would be no further comment. Kubrick's films included ``Spartacus'' in 1960, ``Lolita'' in 1962, ``Dr. Strangelove,'' in 1964, ``2001'' in 1968 and ``A Clockwork Orange'' in 1971. He also made ``Barry Lyndon,'' released in 1975, ``The Shining'' in 1980 and ``Full Metal Jacket'' in 1987. Malcolm McDowell, who starred in ``A Clockwork Orange,'' issued a statement through his publicist calling Kubrick ``a heavyweight of my life.'' ``He was the last great director of that era. He was the big daddy,'' said McDowell. Kubrick's latest film, ``Eyes Wide Shut,'' is still slated for release on July 16, Warner Bros. said Sunday. Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman star in the story of jealousy and obsession, which Kubrick made in great secrecy. ``He was like family to us and we are in shock and devastated,'' Cruise and Kidman said in a statement released by their publicist. Director Steven Spielberg issued a statement describing Kubrick as a ``grand master of filmmaking.'' ``He created more than just movies. He gave us complete environmental experiences,'' Spielberg said. Kubrick was born July 26, 1928, in New York. At 17, he was hired as a staff photographer by Look magazine, which had been impressed by a picture Kubrick had snapped on the day President Franklin D. Roosevelt died. While working at Look, he studied film by attending screenings at the Museum of Modern Art. ``I was aware that I didn't know anything about making films, but I believed I couldn't make them any worse than the majority of films I was seeing. Bad films gave me the courage to try making a movie,'' Kubrick once said. In 1951, he sold a 16-minute documentary about a boxer, ``Day of the Fight,'' to the RKO film studio. Kubrick was drafted by actor Kirk Douglas into the film ``Spartacus'' when the production -- then the most expensive ever mounted in the United States -- ran into trouble. The film, about a slave revolt in ancient Rome, included some footage shot by the original director, Anthony Mann, and Kubrick did not regard the finished product as a great success. ``I tried with only limited success to make the film as real as possible but I was up against a pretty dumb script which was rarely faithful to what is known about Spartacus,'' Kubrick told an interviewer. ``Lolita,'' starring James Mason and Shelley Winters, was based on Vladimir Nabokov's controversial novel about a professor who is sexually obsessed with a 12-year-old girl. The work was filmed in Britain, in part because of censorship problems, and thereafter Kubrick was based in Britain. ``Dr. Strangelove,'' starring Peter Sellers and George C. Scott, was a black comedy about nuclear war released in the early 1960s during a period of great fears over the bomb and Cold War tensions. ``2001,'' a science fiction film about the evolution of man and humanity's place in the universe, combined dazzling visual imagery and an inspired use of music. It proved to be a great success for Kubrick. In an interview with Playboy magazine, Kubrick said he had ``tried to create a visual experience, one that bypasses verbalized pigeonholing and directly penetrates the subconscious with an emotional and philosophic content ... just as music does. ... You're free to speculate as you wish about the philosophical and allegorical meaning.'' ``A Clockwork Orange,'' set in a violent future, is a graphic film about a young thug who carries out rapes and beatings before being sent to prison where he is brainwashed. The film was one of Kubrick's most controversial -- it was even disparaged by Anthony Burgess, whose novel was the basis of the film, and Kubrick eventually removed it from screens in Britain. One of Kubrick's memorable touches was to have his hero sing ``Singin' in the Rain'' while dishing out a brutal beating. ``The Shining,'' a thriller based on a Stephen King novel, starred Jack Nicholson as a writer who went mad and attacked his family while at a deserted, snowbound resort hotel. Kubrick was married three times, first in 1948 to Toba Metz, then after divorcing he married Ruth Sobotka in 1954. Their marriage ended three years later, and in 1958, he wedded Suzanne Harlan, with whom he had three daughters. Details about funeral arrangements were not immediately available.
