Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-07-27 Thread Ivan Herman
The right questions:-)

- All RDFa attributes are without namespace (ie, no prefix is necessary).
- As Ralph said, the current RDFa spec is defined in terms of XHTML for
all kinds of historico-administrative reasons. The group may issue, at
some point, a document on RDFa usage in general for XML applications. I
cannot take any commitments on that, though. Note, however, that the
latest version of SVG Tiny has 'formally' adopted the same set of
attributes already

Cheers

Ivan

Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> 
>> Ivan Herman wrote:
>>
>>> I am sorry if I come into this thread very late. Additionally to what
>>> Ralph just said, the RDFa distiller running on the W3C site:
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/
>>>
>>> should actually work with an arbitrary XML file, although only SVG is
>>> 'announced' there (which is probably my mistake). If there is a problem
>>> then, well... it is my bug:-(
> 
> So do the RDFa attributes use a prefix or not? And which namespace uri?
> And is this in any spec?
> 
> That was the stumbling block the client didn't mind pioneering but they
> didn't want just to make things up on the fly.
> 
> Cheers
> Rick Jelliffe

-- 

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf


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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature


Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-07-26 Thread Rick Jelliffe



Ivan Herman wrote:


I am sorry if I come into this thread very late. Additionally to what
Ralph just said, the RDFa distiller running on the W3C site:

http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/

should actually work with an arbitrary XML file, although only SVG is
'announced' there (which is probably my mistake). If there is a problem
then, well... it is my bug:-(


So do the RDFa attributes use a prefix or not? And which namespace uri? 
And is this in any spec?


That was the stumbling block the client didn't mind pioneering but they 
didn't want just to make things up on the fly.


Cheers
Rick Jelliffe



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-07-24 Thread Helen Parkinson
This is probably technically possible - but you'd need to process a lot 
of complex mage-ml to get out some quite simple information - there's a 
node-edge sample processing graph, plus all the external data files in 
there - mage-ml is mostly tags and the files are large. We've moved 
internally to MAGE-TAB format, we have a MAGE-TAB parser that's being 
used by a couple of groups. We will be developing a standalone 
parser/backend database which will allow users to build a standalone 
atlas. There may be more mileage in developing that parser further to 
support RDF than to persue MAGE-ML.


thanks

Helen

Kei Cheung wrote:
This may also be an interesting way of intersecting microarray 
(mageml) and semantic web (rdfa)  ...


-Kei

Ivan Herman wrote:


I am sorry if I come into this thread very late. Additionally to what
Ralph just said, the RDFa distiller running on the W3C site:

http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/

should actually work with an arbitrary XML file, although only SVG is
'announced' there (which is probably my mistake). If there is a problem
then, well... it is my bug:-(

Ivan

Ralph R. Swick wrote:
 


At 10:48 PM 6/23/2009 +1000, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
  

I see that the 2008 draft
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
says
"RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for adding 
metadata to any (XML) markup document, including SMIL, RSS, SVG, 
MathML, etc. Note, however, that in the current state, RDFa is 
being defined only for the (X)HTML family of languages."


The RDFa specification was designed with the intent that other
languages than XHTML could take advantage of RDFa markup.
(The terminology "host language" was used in some drafts
to signal this direction.)  The charter under which the group
was operating was specific to XHTML, thus the wording in
the W3C Recommendation.

  

So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the
XML, 

By all means, reuse the RDFa vocabulary if it seems appropriate
for your application.


  


 








RE: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-07-24 Thread Miller, Michael D (Rosetta)
hi kei,

there is already something better than RDFa tags in MAGE-ML, the
OntologyEntry tags.  Their purpose is exactly to provide the information
to link to the semantic web.  The examples you provided from NIH are
well annotated with those tags.

cheers,
michael

Michael Miller
Lead Software Developer
Rosetta Biosoftware Business Unit
www.rosettabio.com


> -Original Message-
> From: public-semweb-lifesci-requ...@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-semweb-lifesci-requ...@w3.org] On Behalf Of Kei Cheung
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:56 AM
> To: Ivan Herman
> Cc: Ralph R. Swick; Rick Jelliffe; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information
> 
> This may also be an interesting way of intersecting 
> microarray (mageml) 
> and semantic web (rdfa)  ...
> 
> -Kei
> 
>  Ivan Herman wrote:
> 
> >I am sorry if I come into this thread very late. Additionally to what
> >Ralph just said, the RDFa distiller running on the W3C site:
> >
> >http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/
> >
> >should actually work with an arbitrary XML file, although only SVG is
> >'announced' there (which is probably my mistake). If there 
> is a problem
> >then, well... it is my bug:-(
> >
> >Ivan
> >
> >Ralph R. Swick wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>At 10:48 PM 6/23/2009 +1000, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I see that the 2008 draft
> >>> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
> >>>says
> >>>"RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for 
> adding metadata to any (XML) markup document, including SMIL, 
> RSS, SVG, MathML, etc. Note, however, that in the current 
> state, RDFa is being defined only for the (X)HTML family of 
> languages."
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>The RDFa specification was designed with the intent that other
> >>languages than XHTML could take advantage of RDFa markup.
> >>(The terminology "host language" was used in some drafts
> >>to signal this direction.)  The charter under which the group
> >>was operating was specific to XHTML, thus the wording in
> >>the W3C Recommendation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the
> >>>XML, 
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>By all means, reuse the RDFa vocabulary if it seems appropriate
> >>for your application.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-07-24 Thread Kei Cheung
This may also be an interesting way of intersecting microarray (mageml) 
and semantic web (rdfa)  ...


-Kei

Ivan Herman wrote:


I am sorry if I come into this thread very late. Additionally to what
Ralph just said, the RDFa distiller running on the W3C site:

http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/

should actually work with an arbitrary XML file, although only SVG is
'announced' there (which is probably my mistake). If there is a problem
then, well... it is my bug:-(

Ivan

Ralph R. Swick wrote:
 


At 10:48 PM 6/23/2009 +1000, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
   


I see that the 2008 draft
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
says
"RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for adding metadata to any 
(XML) markup document, including SMIL, RSS, SVG, MathML, etc. Note, however, that in the 
current state, RDFa is being defined only for the (X)HTML family of languages."
 


The RDFa specification was designed with the intent that other
languages than XHTML could take advantage of RDFa markup.
(The terminology "host language" was used in some drafts
to signal this direction.)  The charter under which the group
was operating was specific to XHTML, thus the wording in
the W3C Recommendation.

   


So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the
XML, 
 


By all means, reuse the RDFa vocabulary if it seems appropriate
for your application.


   



 






Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-07-22 Thread Ivan Herman
I am sorry if I come into this thread very late. Additionally to what
Ralph just said, the RDFa distiller running on the W3C site:

http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/

should actually work with an arbitrary XML file, although only SVG is
'announced' there (which is probably my mistake). If there is a problem
then, well... it is my bug:-(

Ivan

Ralph R. Swick wrote:
> At 10:48 PM 6/23/2009 +1000, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
>> I see that the 2008 draft
>>  http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
>> says
>> "RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for adding metadata 
>> to any (XML) markup document, including SMIL, RSS, SVG, MathML, etc. Note, 
>> however, that in the current state, RDFa is being defined only for the 
>> (X)HTML family of languages."
> 
> The RDFa specification was designed with the intent that other
> languages than XHTML could take advantage of RDFa markup.
> (The terminology "host language" was used in some drafts
> to signal this direction.)  The charter under which the group
> was operating was specific to XHTML, thus the wording in
> the W3C Recommendation.
> 
>> So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the
>> XML, 
> 
> By all means, reuse the RDFa vocabulary if it seems appropriate
> for your application.
> 
> 

-- 

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf


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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature


rdfs:sameAs ( was Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information)

2009-06-24 Thread Rick Jelliffe

Thanks for everyone  for their useful  help yesterday.

I am deferring the RDFa parts, and instead will concentrate on making 
page-level RDF descriptions that may be useful for data links for the 
outside world. (The HTML pages are now full of ids, hproduct 
microformats class, HTML rel, and dublin Core, which may be some use.)


So new plan is concentrate on simple RDF indexes on topical lines first. 
That seems rather less pioneering. Here is an example.


For the medicines, I am first making abstract LSIDs for all the WHO ATC 
codes in our system (no representation retrievable). Then there will be 
a atc.rdf document with items like the following:



 P01
 http://www.pbs.gov.au/html/consumer/search/results?atc-code=A01A#pbs-search-results"/>
 http://www.whocc.no/atcddd/indexdatabase/index.php?query=A01A"/>
 http://dbpedia.openlinksw.com:8890/page/ATC_code_A01A"/>



Now the foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf is fine.
And the rdfs:seeAlso is fine there.

But the foaf:page has me feckless and fretting.  It is the closest I can 
get for a semantic WHO URI. I really want to say "What that page is 
about is what this page is about", ie that topic belonging to the LSID I 
am using is an alias for the topic in that page. 

I am tempted to use rdfs:sameAs  but that seems to be used when the two 
pages are identical rather than two topics being the same.  (Actually, 
rdfs:sameAs gets used sometimes semantically and sometimes for pages.)


What is best practice here please?  I suppose I could also use 
foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf too: is it ettiquette to say that some external 
page is actually about a local identifier?


Cheers
Rick Jelliffe



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Ralph R. Swick
At 10:48 PM 6/23/2009 +1000, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
>I see that the 2008 draft
>  http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
>says
> "RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for adding metadata to 
> any (XML) markup document, including SMIL, RSS, SVG, MathML, etc. Note, 
> however, that in the current state, RDFa is being defined only for the 
> (X)HTML family of languages."

The RDFa specification was designed with the intent that other
languages than XHTML could take advantage of RDFa markup.
(The terminology "host language" was used in some drafts
to signal this direction.)  The charter under which the group
was operating was specific to XHTML, thus the wording in
the W3C Recommendation.

>So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the
>XML, 

By all means, reuse the RDFa vocabulary if it seems appropriate
for your application.




Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Rick Jelliffe

Egon Willighagen wrote:


Namespace... to solve this, you could do instead:


 Canteen Cuisine


where the prefix xhtml would be bound to the namespace belonging to
XHTML+RDFa...
  

Waaa?

In XML namespaces, an attribute with no qualifier is in no namespace. 
Does the RDF community work things so that you can detach any attribute 
with non namespace and re-use it with its element's namespace/prefix?


Are you saying that  a generic RDFa  processor would actually be looking 
for xhtml:*/@property  and would not understand  */@property?   Or 
are you saying that a generic RDFa processor would  also accept  
*/@xshtml:property



Cheers
Rick Jelliffe




Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Oliver Ruebenacker
 Hello,

  A nice example of the traps of data linking. The data seems to say
that Einstein was born in the Federal Republic of Germany. In fact, he
was born before the FRG was founded.

 Take care
 Oliver

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> Egon Willighagen wrote:
>>
>> The problem here is to define what attributes your XML will use to
>> define the RDFa hooks... what attributes will define a new subject,
>> the predicate, and how you define the object...
>>
>>
>
> Yes, we lose the  html:base element and html:link, but why would we lose the
> predicates?   @rel and @rev would presumably be available on any element:
> couldn't it be used so that instead of
>
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein";>
>  Albert Einstein
>  1879-03-14
>  http://dbpedia.org/resource/Germany";>
>   Federal Republic of
> Germany
>  
> 
>
> I can have
>
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein";>
>  Albert Einstein
>  1879-03-14
>   resource="http://dbpedia.org/resource/Germany";>
>   Federal Republic of
> Germany
>  
> 
>
> It seems to me that where-ever RDFa does not rely on HTML semantics, it
> "should" be free (there is no conceptual impediment) to use on XML: it can
> certainly determine whether an XML element has a legit XMLliteral or mixed
> or element content.
>
>> Because the XML is using a local namespace, it will be unrecognizable
>> for any client... however, given you define those attributes (or via
>> new elements), you should be able to embed this RDFa in the HTML more
>> easily too...
>>
>
> What is the necessary difference, for an RDFa engine, between
>
>           property="dc:title">
>     Canteen Cuisine
> 
>
> and
>
>           property="dc:title">
>     Canteen Cuisine
> 
>
> Cheers
> Rick Jelliffe
>
>
>



-- 
Oliver Ruebenacker, Computational Cell Biologist
BioPAX Integration at Virtual Cell (http://vcell.org/biopax)
Center for Cell Analysis and Modeling
http://www.oliver.curiousworld.org



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Egon Willighagen
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> Yes, we lose the  html:base element and html:link, but why would we lose the
> predicates?   @rel and @rev would presumably be available on any element:
> couldn't it be used so that instead of
>
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein";>
>  Albert Einstein
>  1879-03-14
>  http://dbpedia.org/resource/Germany";>
>   Federal Republic of
> Germany
>  
> 
>
> I can have
>
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein";>

Sure, but just remember that for a computer the second about is an
attribute in another namespace... which implies different semantics...

Moreover, it can potentionally invalidate your XML file, as the DTD or
XML Schema or Relax NG would not define that attribute for that
element...



> It seems to me that where-ever RDFa does not rely on HTML semantics, it
> "should" be free (there is no conceptual impediment) to use on XML: it can
> certainly determine whether an XML element has a legit XMLliteral or mixed
> or element content.

Yes, you are free to update the definition of your XML to do this.

>> Because the XML is using a local namespace, it will be unrecognizable
>> for any client... however, given you define those attributes (or via
>> new elements), you should be able to embed this RDFa in the HTML more
>> easily too...
>>
>
> What is the necessary difference, for an RDFa engine, between
>
>           property="dc:title">
>     Canteen Cuisine
> 
>
> and
>
>           property="dc:title">
>     Canteen Cuisine
> 

Namespace... to solve this, you could do instead:


 Canteen Cuisine


where the prefix xhtml would be bound to the namespace belonging to
XHTML+RDFa...

Egon

-- 
Post-doc @ Uppsala University
http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Rick Jelliffe

Egon Willighagen wrote:

The problem here is to define what attributes your XML will use to
define the RDFa hooks... what attributes will define a new subject,
the predicate, and how you define the object...

  
Yes, we lose the  html:base element and html:link, but why would we lose 
the predicates?   @rel and @rev would presumably be available on any 
element: couldn't it be used so that instead of


http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein";>
 Albert Einstein
 1879-03-14
 http://dbpedia.org/resource/Germany";>
   Federal Republic of Germany
 


I can have

http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein";>
 Albert Einstein
 1879-03-14
 http://dbpedia.org/resource/Germany";>
   Federal Republic of Germany
 


It seems to me that where-ever RDFa does not rely on HTML semantics, it 
"should" be free (there is no conceptual impediment) to use on XML: it 
can certainly determine whether an XML element has a legit XMLliteral or 
mixed or element content.



Because the XML is using a local namespace, it will be unrecognizable
for any client... however, given you define those attributes (or via
new elements), you should be able to embed this RDFa in the HTML more
easily too...
  

What is the necessary difference, for an RDFa engine, between


 Canteen Cuisine


and


 Canteen Cuisine


Cheers
Rick Jelliffe




Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Egon Willighagen
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> I see that the 2008 draft
>  http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
> says
>  "RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for adding metadata
> to any (XML) markup document, including SMIL, RSS, SVG, MathML, etc. Note,
> however, that in the current state, RDFa is being defined only for the
> (X)HTML family of languages."
>
> So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the XML, so that
> there is some data on the web which might stimulate developers or inform
> them, and tell the client that we may need to change tack.

The problem here is to define what attributes your XML will use to
define the RDFa hooks... what attributes will define a new subject,
the predicate, and how you define the object...

Because the XML is using a local namespace, it will be unrecognizable
for any client... however, given you define those attributes (or via
new elements), you should be able to embed this RDFa in the HTML more
easily too...

Egon

-- 
Post-doc @ Uppsala University
http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Rick Jelliffe

I see that the 2008 draft
  http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/rdfa-overview
says
 "RDFa itself is intended to be a technique that allows for adding 
metadata to any (XML) markup document, including SMIL, RSS, SVG, MathML, 
etc. Note, however, that in the current state, RDFa is being defined 
only for the (X)HTML family of languages."


So I think I will go ahead and add some RDFa markup to the XML, so that 
there is some data on the web which might stimulate developers or inform 
them, and tell the client that we may need to change tack.


Cheers
Rick Jelliffe



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Matthias Samwald

Hi Rick,

So there is still no convenient way to mark up existing XML as RDF?  It 
was a showstopper 10 years ago but I kind of expected there would have

been some progress

I rather think that using XML as the default representation for RDF was the 
showstopper back then. RDF/XML is not a good serialisation for RDF, Turtle 
and N-Triples would have been a much better choice in comparison. I guess 
the choice for RDF/XML was made for diplomatic reasons (not basing any kind 
of new data standard on XML was unthinkable at that time), rather than 
practicality.


(Like I said, it has different info from the HTML so adding RDFa to the 
HTML won't work; also the XML has existing customers so we don't want to 
alter that, though the idea of duplicating the XML data as RDF seems 
workable but a terrible hack; and we want to avoid having a new datafeed.)


So you do not want to alter the XML in a substantial way, and neither want 
to create a RDF representation out of the XML via some kind of 
transformation? I am afraid that solving you problem is not possible under 
these constraints.


Cheers,
Matthias Samwald

DERI Galway, Ireland
http://deri.ie/

Konrad Lorenz Institute for Evolution & Cognition Research, Austria
http://kli.ac.at/ 





Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Egon Willighagen
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> Markup = annotation.  Taking existing data and adding stuff to make it more
> useful, without disrupting existing uses of that data (and without creating
> the size/maintenance issues you get from duplication.)
> One of the rationales for this project is to make more effective use of
> bandwidth, which makes me lean against duplication somewhat, but it may
> indeed be the appropriate way.

OK, so the requirement is to: 1. stick with the current XML, 2. provide RDF/XML.

I think XSLT route proposed by others is the way to go then, making a
third end point, which would take the current XML as input, convert it
with XSLT to RDF/XML. Using RDF/XML has the advantage here that you
can validate your XSLT stylesheet for the output content too,
increasing your changes of detecting typos etc.

Egon

-- 
Post-doc @ Uppsala University
http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Rick Jelliffe

Egon Willighagen wrote:

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
  

So there is still no convenient way to mark up existing XML as RDF?  It was
a showstopper 10 years ago but I kind of expected there would have been some
progresssigh



Define 'markup'... 
Markup = annotation.  Taking existing data and adding stuff to make it 
more useful, without disrupting existing uses of that data (and without 
creating the size/maintenance issues you get from duplication.) 

One of the rationales for this project is to make more effective use of 
bandwidth, which makes me lean against duplication somewhat, but it may 
indeed be the appropriate way.


Cheers, and thanks,
Rick Jelliffe



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Rick Jelliffe

Dan Brickley wrote:

On 23/6/09 11:49, Rick Jelliffe wrote:

So there is still no convenient way to mark up existing XML as RDF?  It
was a showstopper 10 years ago but I kind of expected there would have
been some progresssigh


Well, since you didn't seem keen on converting all the XML to RDF I 
didn't point you at http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-grddl-20070911/ ... 
but that's certainly one of the answers to "how to map XML into RDF" 
that we didn't have in 1999. Since you're an XSLT genius, maybe it 
wouldn't be horribly painful just to write a convertor XSLT and link 
that from the namespace doc of your XML files?

I quite like the idea of GRDDL actually. I'm looking at it tonight too.

Thanks!
Rick



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Dan Brickley

On 23/6/09 11:49, Rick Jelliffe wrote:

So there is still no convenient way to mark up existing XML as RDF?  It
was a showstopper 10 years ago but I kind of expected there would have
been some progresssigh


Well, since you didn't seem keen on converting all the XML to RDF I 
didn't point you at http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-grddl-20070911/ ... 
but that's certainly one of the answers to "how to map XML into RDF" 
that we didn't have in 1999. Since you're an XSLT genius, maybe it 
wouldn't be horribly painful just to write a convertor XSLT and link 
that from the namespace doc of your XML files?


cheers,

Dan



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Egon Willighagen
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> So there is still no convenient way to mark up existing XML as RDF?  It was
> a showstopper 10 years ago but I kind of expected there would have been some
> progresssigh

Define 'markup'... you can just embed your RDF in your XML, using
RDF/XML... the namespacing is the indication what is RDF and what is
not... no other 'markup' needed...

Can you elaborate on the inconveniences you talk about a bit more?
That makes providing solutions easier...

Egon

-- 
Post-doc @ Uppsala University
http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Rick Jelliffe
So there is still no convenient way to mark up existing XML as RDF?  It 
was a showstopper 10 years ago but I kind of expected there would have 
been some progresssigh


(Like I said, it has different info from the HTML so adding RDFa to the 
HTML won't work; also the XML has existing customers so we don't want to 
alter that, though the idea of duplicating the XML data as RDF seems 
workable but a terrible hack; and we want to avoid having a new datafeed.)


Cheers
Rick Jelliffe



Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Matthias Samwald

Hi Rick,

I think adding parts of RDFa into your XML without turning the whole XML 
into some kind of XHTML document will not help much.


If you want to use RDFa and make your data part of the Semantic Web, why 
don't you add more RDFa to your current HTML pages? I see that they do not 
contain all of the data in your XML file, but still there is some valuable 
information in the tables that is still without semantic markup.


In case that the HTML and XML are generated from the same databases (and 
this seems to be the case), you could also make the information that is 
currently only available in the XML version available in the HTML version. 
If you want to hide the details from the reader, but make it available to 
the machines, then you  can use 'hidden' RDFa.


Just some ideas.


Cheers,
Matthias Samwald

DERI Galway, Ireland
http://deri.ie/

Konrad Lorenz Institute for Evolution & Cognition Research, Austria
http://kli.ac.at/


--
From: "Rick Jelliffe" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:20 AM
To: 
Subject: Can RDFa be used on XML:  pharma information

I am working on improving the semweb markup on an Australian government 
Department of Health and Aging website, which has HTML and XML versions of 
the medicines allowed for prescription and the amount the government pays. 
It has various links to interesting documents, and we want to make it more 
semweb friendly.


Here are two example pages to give you the idea (they have different 
selections of data):


http://www.pbs.gov.au/html/consumer/search/results?term=Zyprexa%20Zydis&publication=GE

http://www.pbs.gov.au/xml/consumer/search/results?term=Zyprexa%20Zydis&publication=GE

We are doing some general things like improving the microformats (DC and 
hproduct) in the HTML.


But the plan was to decorate the XML (which has extra information)  with 
the appropriate RDFa, which seems perfect. But now I see that the RDFa 
spec says that RDFa is designed for use on XHTML. We do no want to use it 
that way, we want to augment the XML.


So I was wondering if anyone here had any advice? I see the choices

1) Convert to old RDF or some other format and making this available too: 
but we really don't want to do this (an extra thing to maintain, more 
bandwidth, etc)


2) Just ploughing ahead and using RDFa on XML even if nothing can use it. 
(Would that be the case?)


3) Err, Something clever from people on this list.

Any ideas about what people do with RDF?

Cheers
Rick Jelliffe 





Re: Can RDFa be used on XML: pharma information

2009-06-23 Thread Egon Willighagen
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> I am working on improving the semweb markup on an Australian government
> Department of Health and Aging website, which has HTML and XML versions of
> the medicines allowed for prescription and the amount the government pays.
> It has various links to interesting documents, and we want to make it more
> semweb friendly.
>
> Here are two example pages to give you the idea (they have different
> selections of data):
>
> http://www.pbs.gov.au/html/consumer/search/results?term=Zyprexa%20Zydis&publication=GE
>
>  http://www.pbs.gov.au/xml/consumer/search/results?term=Zyprexa%20Zydis&publication=GE
>
> We are doing some general things like improving the microformats (DC and
> hproduct) in the HTML.
>
> But the plan was to decorate the XML (which has extra information)  with the
> appropriate RDFa, which seems perfect. But now I see that the RDFa spec says
> that RDFa is designed for use on XHTML. We do no want to use it that way, we
> want to augment the XML.
>
> So I was wondering if anyone here had any advice? I see the choices

Instead of the XML end point, I would express all that content as RDF
(possibly in the XML format). If you need the XML for the metadata
info on the request, you could consider putting a  element
somewhere in your custom XML.

Egon


-- 
Post-doc @ Uppsala University
http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/