[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-21 Thread Robbymagman
OK Guys! Having caused such a stir with the 63 tweak, a good friend on another Forum (Thanks D) suggested another, and after two nights with it, I subjectively sense a lower noise floor. Although this new tweak is not nearly as beneficial as the fixed S/PDIF level and 63 Tweak (which took the SB3

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread JohnnyLightOn
CFP Wrote: > You're right. Perhaps one day science can tell us how computers work. Science can explain how a computer works because it's relatively easy to figure out. The problem comes when some scientists become arrogant, probably as a result of fear or insecurity, and claim that something i

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread Hiroyuki Hamada
I would set it at 63 and try a good quality EQ device or a software. Hiroyuki On Aug 20, 2006, at 10:10 AM, Deaf Cat wrote: Would you believe I actually find the attenuation on 0 preferable to 63... Oh yes. Yes, I do find things sound more real with the 63 att especially with regards to voic

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread Robbymagman
Skunk Wrote: > Set it to 31.5? That is absolutely hilarious! :D But who knows, it might actually work! I must say that I have been following this thread and am quite amazed that my simple "mute" suggestion (and I have to side with those that have found a noticable improvement) has generated

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread ezkcdude
PhilNYC Wrote: > So now ezkcdude is a believer in this tweak... ;-) Well, let's say it's a step in the right direction. At the very least, it's nice to see someone actually characterizing what they hear, and not just saying "it's better". -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->M

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread PhilNYC
Deaf Cat Wrote: > Would you believe I actually find the attenuation on 0 preferable to > 63... Oh yes. > So now ezkcdude is a believer in this tweak... ;-) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com Phil

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread Skunk
Deaf Cat Wrote: > > What I want to know is how do I get the realness when on 63 and keep my > forwardness/footappingness? > Please, any one know ?? :) Set it to 31.5? -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread Deaf Cat
Would you believe I actually find the attenuation on 0 preferable to 63... Oh yes. Yes, I do find things sound more real with the 63 att especially with regards to voices which is rather good. However, things seem generally quiter and more distant (even when turned up), but more Real:-D I'v

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread PhilNYC
ezkcdude Wrote: > Then I don't believe the effect is real! We're not talking about an > objective measurement with an indisputable value. I wouldn't have any > argument if you told me the tweak lowered jitter, for example. How can > I argue with that? With a subjective measurement alone, though,

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread cliveb
Phil Leigh Wrote: > Computers are deterministic systems; for a given set of inputs a set of > outputs can be accurately predicted... I'm sitting here in front of a Microsoft-based computer, and I just can't follow the logic of your statement :-) -- cliveb Performers -> dozens of mixers and ef

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-20 Thread Phil Leigh
CFP Wrote: > You're right. Perhaps one day science can tell us how computers work. Well that's kind of the whole issue in a nutshell. Computers are deterministic systems; for a given set of inputs a set of outputs can be accurately predicted, measured and confirmed as factual/correct. An audio

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread CFP
JohnnyLightOn Wrote: > These "scientific sites" are often populated by people who either don't > have great ears or don't have great systems. I've read on > Hydrogenaudio a dozen times that good MP3s and CDs are > indistinguishable, which is clearly not the case. > > I'm not saying I think FLAC

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread JohnnyLightOn
CFP Wrote: > On any scientific site if someone contended WAV sounded better than FLAC > on their computer due to the "processing differences" he/she'd be > laughed out of the house. These "scientific sites" are often populated by people who either don't have great ears or don't have great system

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread P Floding
CFP Wrote: > Nice backpedal. > Of course "situations cannot be fully equivalent" - but that's a > meaningless statement it is tantamount to saying, "they are not the > same because they are different." Wow, such a philosophical > breakthough! Do I smell a Nobel Prize? > > Well duh, of course

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread CFP
P Floding Wrote: > If you are going to be a sceptic, then at the very least learn to read > carefully and apply logic. "no-one can claim the situations are fully > equivalent" is all I said. Nice backpedal. Of course "situations cannot be fully equivalent" - but that's a meaningless statement

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread P Floding
CFP Wrote: > I thought it was because they were still trying to compensate for > certain deficiencies of analog recording when it was unneeded for > digital. > > > > So how is this different than any other piece of computer hardware? > Minus of course, the dedicated "FLAC Machine" with gate l

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread Robin Bowes
ezkcdude wrote: > That's a terrible analogy. Sure, people will tell you it's sweeter. Will > they universally tell you it's "better" and the other ones it's no > different? So, what, everybody either loves sweet coffee or doesn't > know the difference? You should think carefully before employing >

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread opaqueice
ezkcdude Wrote: > Yes, but in that case most people would also hear the change. We're > talking about a tweak in which half of us don't hear anything, and half > think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Not necessarily. Small differences in volume are quite difficult to judge by ear, but c

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread ezkcdude
That's a terrible analogy. Sure, people will tell you it's sweeter. Will they universally tell you it's "better" and the other ones it's no different? So, what, everybody either loves sweet coffee or doesn't know the difference? You should think carefully before employing analogies. What exactly

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread Robin Bowes
ezkcdude wrote: > opaqueice Wrote: >> One can imagine lots of possible effects which would sound good to >> almost everyone - like making the volume slightly higher, for example. > > Yes, but in that case most people would also hear the change. We're > talking about a tweak in which half of us do

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread CFP
P Floding Wrote: > Actually, audio reproduction is not an exact science. There is no > ultimate sound system on this planet that sounds perfect to all ears. > Perhaps I overstated the case, but the fact remains that it is hard to > believe that more jitter will sound better. Especially since we k

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread Patrick Dixon
pfarrell Wrote: > P Floding wrote: > > ezkcdude Wrote: > > > >>Really? I didn't know this was a proven fact. My bad. > > > > > Perhaps I overstated the case, but the fact remains that it is hard > to > > believe that more jitter will sound better. > > Just a little, perhaps. > > There are

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread ezkcdude
opaqueice Wrote: > One can imagine lots of possible effects which would sound good to > almost everyone - like making the volume slightly higher, for example. Yes, but in that case most people would also hear the change. We're talking about a tweak in which half of us don't hear anything, and ha

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread opaqueice
ezkcdude Wrote: > Then I don't believe the effect is real! We're not talking about an > objective measurement with an indisputable value. I wouldn't have any > argument if you told me the tweak lowered jitter, for example. How can > I argue with that? With a subjective measurement alone, though,

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread Pat Farrell
P Floding wrote: ezkcdude Wrote: Really? I didn't know this was a proven fact. My bad. Perhaps I overstated the case, but the fact remains that it is hard to believe that more jitter will sound better. Just a little, perhaps. There are thresholds of inaudibility for any of a number of

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread P Floding
ezkcdude Wrote: > Really? I didn't know this was a proven fact. My bad. Actually, audio reproduction is not an exact science. There is no ultimate sound system on this planet that sounds perfect to all ears. Perhaps I overstated the case, but the fact remains that it is hard to believe that more

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread ezkcdude
P Floding Wrote: > Less jitter will always sound better if you have a good enough system to > hear the difference. Really? I didn't know this was a proven fact. My bad. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread P Floding
ezkcdude Wrote: > Then I don't believe the effect is real! We're not talking about an > objective measurement with an indisputable value. I wouldn't have any > argument if you told me the tweak lowered jitter, for example. How can > I argue with that? With a subjective measurement alone, though,

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread ezkcdude
PhilNYC Wrote: > What if it doesn't? Then I don't believe the effect is real! We're not talking about an objective measurement with an indisputable value. I wouldn't have any argument if you told me the tweak lowered jitter, for example. How can I argue with that? With a subjective measurement a

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread PhilNYC
ezkcdude Wrote: > Well, I'm still waiting for the first person who says this "63" tweak > (thank god it's not "69") sounds worse. What if it doesn't? -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's P

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread ezkcdude
PhilNYC Wrote: > This isn't true. There are plenty of tweaks that I've tried that have > made things sound worse in my system. Well, I'm still waiting for the first person who says this "63" tweak (thank god it's not "69") sounds worse. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MI

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-19 Thread P Floding
andy_c Wrote: > Actually, Kurt was quoting me in the referenced article, using quotation > marks instead of the QUOTE tags. > > Certainly, this change can do no harm and costs nothing. However, > claiming something makes a big difference in sound, and saying it does > no harm are two different

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread PhilNYC
ezkcdude Wrote: > Ask yourself this, why is it that nobody every reports the tweak makes > it sound worse? This isn't true. There are plenty of tweaks that I've tried that have made things sound worse in my system. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com --

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread ezkcdude
Andy, here's a message I posted on the Sterophile forum about this subject, you may like it, > It is always interesting to me that when a tweak like this comes along, > there are always exactly two camps. A) Those who think the tweak > improves the sound or B) those who can't hear any change. Ask

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread andy_c
ezkcdude Wrote: > Did you hear the tweak about the black SqueezeBox sounding better than > the white one? It's true. That's hilarious! Good thing I wan't drinking a beverage when I read this :-). -- andy_c andy_c's Prof

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread ezkcdude
Did you hear the tweak about the black SqueezeBox sounding better than the white one? It's true. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-wa

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread andy_c
Hi Colin, I actually have my attenuation set to 63, even though I didn't hear a difference. I figure, why not just attenuate the signal since I'm not using it anyway? Works for me :-). -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http:/

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread Colin Reilly
I am one of those who agreed muting the analog volume control made a difference. I am willing to admit, however, that when I made the change, the difference I heard could have been caused purely by something akin to auto suggestion. I was told there was a difference, so I heard one, or thought I

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread Phil Leigh
Kurt Wrote: > Andy - Perfectly summed up. We measure what we can up to a point, and > beyond that we just "believe". Hopefully we hear (and then believe)... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread Kurt
andy_c Wrote: > > I have no issue with people going with what works for them, based on > uncontrolled subjective experiments. I do this myself with my own > system all the time. But there is a difference between saying "X works > for me" and saying "X is true". The difference is that people w

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread SoftwireEngineer
mauidan Wrote: > From the thread- SB1 digital out compared to SB2 and SB3 > > “I just purchased a brand new SB3, and a colleague subjected the > digital outputs to a quick jitter measurement using Audio Precision > equipment. Results: > SB3 digital coax out jitter: ~99ps, SB3 digital optical out

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread andy_c
Actually, Kurt was quoting me in the referenced article, using quotation marks instead of the QUOTE tags. Certainly, this change can do no harm and costs nothing. However, claiming something makes a big difference in sound, and saying it does no harm are two different things. What I was satiriz

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread samplesj
Kurt Wrote: > "I predict that within a week's time, almost everyone on the audiophile > message boards will be insisting that this is an essential change that > must be made to realize the full potential of the Squeezebox with an > external DAC :)" > > Ya think?! ;-) Let me ask this then. Why

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread PhilNYC
Hey opaqueice...I sent you a private message...let me know if you received it... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this t

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread opaqueice
sleepysurf Wrote: > Well, I spent a couple hours investigating this further tonight. In a > nutshell... RANDOM result. > Thanks for the update, sleepysurf! It did seem a bit hard to believe that the difference could be so big. As you point out it's also a good lesson in statistics - two po

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-18 Thread mauidan
SoftwireEngineer Wrote: > Thanks Phil, switching to the Glass toslink instead of the coax, I got > better results (initially, I could not tell much difference - listening > at a lower volume during night time). I am now very close to the sound > of my transport. I think stock the coax output has

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread SoftwireEngineer
Phil Leigh Wrote: > Well, according to my TACT measurements, there is no rolloff of HF with > the SB (2 or 3). > I think what you're hearing is correct - the SB has a smoother top end > than many digital sources/CDP's. > YMMV. Thanks Phil, switching to the Glass toslink instead of the coax, I go

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread Kurt
"I predict that within a week's time, almost everyone on the audiophile message boards will be insisting that this is an essential change that must be made to realize the full potential of the Squeezebox with an external DAC :)" Ya think?! ;-) -- Kurt Main Entry: au·dio·phile Pronunciation:

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread sleepysurf
Well, I spent a couple hours investigating this further tonight. In a nutshell... RANDOM result. First off, I had pulled the "transmitter" off the top of my permanent doorbell chime, trying to determine how it works, what frequency, etc. When I put it back tonight, I couldn't (initially) get

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread andy_c
seanadams Wrote: > I assumed the transmitter was hard wired. Now we learn that it probably > has a microphone pickup. I bet it's a fluke. Oh dear, I'll have to read these threads more carefully :). If that doorbell circuit uses a microphone, well, that's a recipe for all kinds of false alarms.

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread Phil Leigh
Well, according to my TACT measurements, there is no rolloff of HF with the SB (2 or 3). I think what you're hearing is correct - the SB has a smoother top end than many digital sources/CDP's. YMMV. -- Phil Leigh Phil Lei

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread ackcheng
I also have a HTPC running RME9632. Comparing the HTPC setup with the SB2/3 (Both with digital out to DAC) I have also noticed that SB2/3 does not have the HF extension that I can get with the RME. Now, whethere this is digital glare, I don't know. But I like the sound of RME better. Waiting for

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-17 Thread SoftwireEngineer
I ordered the SB3 on Monday and received the package on Wednesday itself (as I live in the Bay Area). I had earlier installed the Slim Server and Softsqueeze and had the setup ready with some 10 or 15 CDs worth of music on the harddrive. Thanks to this thread, I had disabled digital and the second

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread P Floding
CFP Wrote: > This thread took a dive into incredulity a few pages back. > > > > > > when it was proposed WAV sounded better than FLAC :P We here have been over this before, and unless you simply search the archives, I suggest we start a new thread if you'd like to discuss it. (S

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread seanadams
I assumed the transmitter was hard wired. Now we learn that it probably has a microphone pickup. I bet it's a fluke. Just try the experiment a few more times and you will find that muting the DAC makes no difference at all. Ideally, have someone else change the setting on the flip of a coin so t

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
sleepysurf Wrote: > I posted my doorbell chime extender observation solely because, IMHO, it > offers *objective* proof that *something* has changed. Yep. To tell the truth, when I first read your post, I thought the whole situation was extremely bizarre. But after thinking about it for a whil

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread sleepysurf
andy_c Wrote: > Q for sleepysurf: Is there a cable connecting the analog out of the SB > to your preamp? > > If so, try the experiment with this cable disconnected. > > If there is no such cable, or the problem persists when the cable is > removed, try using TosLink between the SB and Benchmar

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread seanadams
pfarrell Wrote: > > > Isn't the actual, delivered slope, or triggering voltage, constant > with a connection that is made and left in place for a few million > cycles? let alone the months that more real world users keep their > gear connected? I'm not sure if I follow you. I was not suggest

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread CFP
Whenever digital audio gets mentioned, it seems talk of jitter is not far behind. Can someone provide for my reading pleasure a reasonably scientific experiment or white paper that measures the audibility of jitter, especially pertaining to the ranges commonly associated with decent audio gear (i

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread Pat Farrell
seanadams wrote: Precisely right... and maintaining the slope of those transitions matters a lot if you care about jitter. What? You mean real world wiring doesn't instantantously keep the square wave, with infinite slope, moving down the wire? :-) Isn't the actual, delivered slope, or trigge

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread Pat Farrell
andy_c wrote: By most standards, the SPDIF signal is just barely in the RF world, or at least not in serious RF mode. There are only 1.5 mega bits per second, just above the AM radio band. Just to nitpick a bit, the bandwidth in the analog domain is determined by the required rise time of the

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread seanadams
andy_c Wrote: > Just to nitpick a bit, the bandwidth in the analog domain is determined > by the required rise/fall time of the pulses, not by the number of > pulses per unit time. Since the rise/fall times must be short compared > to the pulse width (time duration of a single bit), the equivale

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
pfarrell Wrote: > > By most standards, the SPDIF signal is just barely in the RF world, or > at least not in serious RF mode. There are only 1.5 mega bits per > second, just above the AM radio band. > > There is also the minor detail that no wire with RCA connectors on it > can be 75 ohm, which

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread Pat Farrell
andy_c wrote: PhilNYC Wrote: Here's a good article describing why you should use a 1.5m digital cable http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm Yikes. ... [snip] .. engineer knows that the information in that linked article is completely false. The referenced article smel

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
Well, I may have called it the wrong name, but I do know he's worked on some stuff for Intel involving long distance data transmission systems (or something like that). Perhaps the fact that Intel was never really successful in that market says something...? I'll tell you that having met Steve a

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
A transmission line engineer for Intel? That's too funny. There really is no such thing as a "transmission line engineer" per se. That's like being the proverbial Maytag repairman. People that work on things like radar systems or wireless products that work in the GHz range must know their tra

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
andy_c Wrote: > Yikes. Any RF engineer that knows his transmission line theory and has > experience with transmission line measurements knows that the > information in that linked article is completely false. FWIW, the author of the article (Steve Nugent) was a transmission line engineer for

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
PhilNYC Wrote: > Here's a good article describing why you should use a 1.5m digital > cable > > http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm Yikes. Any RF engineer that knows his transmission line theory and has experience with transmission line measurements knows that the informatio

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread opaqueice
PhilNYC Wrote: > Yep, it certainly sounds like nonsense...no question about that. And I > have never tried any of the Bybee products separate from my Dodson DAC, > so I couldn't tell you any A/B-comparison-type experiences. But Ralph's > engineering resume speaks for itself, and there's all sor

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
opaqueice Wrote: > > Anyway, we're at risk of falling very far off topic... Yep...and despite taking an interest in learning how things work (or don't work), the ultimate test is whether you like the sound or not... :-) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com -

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
Dan Banquer found an EMI problem with the Squeezebox in this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=30075.0, using an AM radio tuned in between stations to pick up the noise. In this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=30207.0, he did more experiments and

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
I've tried the Wireworld SuperNova 5 glass toslink cable and found it to be very good. Still prefer my coax, but the SuperNova is 1/2 the price of my coax cable and is 95% of the performance... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com -

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread CFP
This thread took a dive into incredulity a few pages back. when it was proposed WAV sounded better than FLAC :P -- CFP CFP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6915 View this thread:

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread SoftwireEngineer
Has anybody done comparisons between the Coax and Toslink ? I have found that my Sound Professionals Glass Toslink beats my Zu Ash coax on my Philips 963SA DVD player into my Panasonic XR55. My Squeezebox has arrived today and I think I will either conneting the Zu Ash or switching the glass tosli

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
Yep, it certainly sounds like nonsense...no question about that. And I have never tried any of the Bybee products separate from my Dodson DAC, so I couldn't tell you any A/B-comparison-type experiences. But Ralph's engineering resume speaks for itself, and there's all sorts of published research

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread opaqueice
PhilNYC Wrote: > > Btw - I wouldn't discount the Bybee stuff. For 30+ years, Ralph was > head of General Dynamics' "Black box" division, designing military > systems (missle guidance, etc). Quantum purifiers were originally > developed for military systems purposes, so Ralph has a long history

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
I've had long conversations with Ralph Dodson about whether a transport should make a difference or not with the DA-218...and the bottom line is that even with all the high-tech buffering and reclocking he does, the transport still does make a difference. Talking to other engineers in the industr

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread P Floding
PhilNYC Wrote: > I use a Dodson Audio DA-218 DAC > > (Note: I'm also a Dodson dealer) I hate to spoil the party (not sure for whom, however) but from dodsonaudio.com: "Input signal jitter is eliminated by first clocking the input signal into a storage memory, then re-clocking the stored input

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
LHawes Wrote: > Phil would you mind telling us what you are using? > > Larry I use a Dodson Audio DA-218 DAC (Note: I'm also a Dodson dealer) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread LHawes
PhilNYC Wrote: > I am not using a Benchmark DAC, but the difference is very noticeable to > me. Phil would you mind telling us what you are using? Larry -- LHawes LHawes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.p

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread P Floding
PhilNYC Wrote: > I didn't notice that he was using the TosLink. Pure speculation here, > but I would have guessed that muting the analog out would likely not > have as much (at all?) of an effect on the Toslink out. Muting the > analog out is essentially lowing the power demands of the power su

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
samplesj Wrote: > > Maybe try a coax connection instead too. I didn't notice that he was using the TosLink. Pure speculation here, but I would have guessed that muting the analog out would likely not have as much (at all?) of an effect on the Toslink out. Muting the analog out is essentially

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread P Floding
samplesj Wrote: > Thank you for the wonderful tweak. > > I'm not sure why it matters, but yes setting that preamp mute made a > difference in my system too. Its much cleaner sounding now so I'm sure > I could crank it louder without problems too. > > Here is an interesting question. Of the pe

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread samplesj
andy_c Wrote: > Ahh, you're right. I hooked it up through the analog output of the SB > and verified that the analog level stays the same until the streaming > is stopped (not just paused) and re-started. This makes the test > harder to perform. > > After changing the technique to re-start the

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
PhilNYC Wrote: > Andy, when you changed the setting to 63, did you stop the music and > then re-start it? As mentioned previously, you might have to stop > streaming to the SB in order for the setting to take effect. Ahh, you're right. I hooked it up through the analog output of the SB and ver

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread Phil Leigh
I've got NO idea what is going on here, but the difference is clear - my hand was resting on my subwoofer (where my mouse lives) when I changed the settings and restarted the track and I could easily feel increased vibration in the top of the sub cabinet...something is definitely different.

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread opaqueice
PhilNYC Wrote: > Andy, when you changed the setting to 63, did you stop the music and > then re-start it? As mentioned previously, you might have to stop > streaming to the SB in order for the setting to take effect. > It would be great if those who hear a difference would try it blind. Just

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
andy_c Wrote: > I tried this and noticed no change whatsoever. My system uses a stock > SB2 going into a Berhinger DEQ2496, then a Benchmark DAC1 using TosLink > for both digital connections. I have a laptop on a table right next to > my listening chair, so I can change the setting of the analo

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread PhilNYC
aberdeencomponents Wrote: > Phil > Not as good as your refrence transport? You need to go to the > Tacthackerforum, and tell them how it is! > I got something that "might" give yout tport a run, hint..? > O I stopped arguing with Tact owners long ago... ;-) Sure, what's the hint? My reference

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
I tried this and noticed no change whatsoever. My system uses a stock SB2 going into a Berhinger DEQ2496, then a Benchmark DAC1 using TosLink for both digital connections. I have a laptop on a table right next to my listening chair, so I can change the setting of the analog attenuation without m

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread aberdeencomponents
PhilNYC Wrote: > I just tried this...very cool. Lower noise floor, reduced harshness in > the vocals and cymbals...still not where my reference transport is, but > I'm pretty surprised that the gap closed as much as it did. > Interesting... Phil Not as good as your refrence transport? You need

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread Deaf Cat
samplesj Wrote: > Thank you for the wonderful tweak. > > I'm not sure why it matters, but yes setting that preamp mute made a > difference in my system too. Its much cleaner sounding now so I'm sure > I could crank it louder without problems too. > > Here is an interesting question. Of the pe

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread samplesj
Thank you for the wonderful tweak. I'm not sure why it matters, but yes setting that preamp mute made a difference in my system too. Its much cleaner sounding now so I'm sure I could crank it louder without problems too. Here is an interesting question. Of the people that can hear an improveme

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread P Floding
opaqueice Wrote: > There's a gadget that sits "on" the doorbell, and is activated when it > rings and sends the wireless signal. ok, I see! I didn't see that link to the actual extender! Quite a novel product! Then it seems almost certain that it is the audio itself that triggers the doorbell.

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread opaqueice
P Floding Wrote: > The doorbell sends a wireless signal to the extender. The extender > doesn't listen via a microphone (although that would be a very novel > approach). There's a gadget that sits "on" the doorbell, and is activated when it rings and sends the wireless signal. I would have thou

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread andy_c
Q for sleepysurf: Is there a cable connecting the analog out of the SB to your preamp? If so, try the experiment with this cable disconnected. -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread gsuser
Same improvements for me with the analog mute trick. Thanks for this usefull tip ! -- gsuser gsuser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6401 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread cliveb
opaqueice Wrote: > So let me make sure I understand - this chime extender thing is a > microphone that sits by the doorbell and listens for the doorbell > chime, and when it hears it sends a signal to the remote unit (which > makes a sound). You're saying if your music is playing certain notes >

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread P Floding
opaqueice Wrote: > So let me make sure I understand - this chime extender thing is a > microphone that sits by the doorbell and listens for the doorbell > chime, and when it hears it sends a signal to the remote unit (which > makes a sound). You're saying if your music is playing certain notes >

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF sounds poor

2006-08-16 Thread opaqueice
sleepysurf Wrote: > > Now, this begs the question (for Sean I suppose), WHY does this work??? > It certainly sounds like there could be a permanent software fix for > this issue. So let me make sure I understand - this chime extender thing is a microphone that sits by the doorbell and listens f

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