Re: (313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
Due, you missed my point. I wasnt saying the printing press killed all culture. it begat so much of it. i was making an analogy. i'm against mediocrity. With everyone and their mother getting in on djing, everyone and their mother cant be that good at it, that musical, or devoted. Between democracy and art/culture there are trade-offs. sometimes i dont like whats being traded. take the whole thing of everyone thinking they need to go to college in the us, for example. that doesnt go down in europe, and the youth there dont get f'ed in the ess with student loans. Finally, i dont know what the hell .microsound is. sounds pretentious and honestly i dont care to find out, no offense. i'm hip to non-street, non-dancey higher-brow sh*t like pierre henry, or whats labelled "new music" by certain people. but really, i like vinyl, dust (not too much), and nasty djs... And to be clear i dont think ableton or serato are the printing press--they are actually more related to oprahs book of the month club, harry potter, and other least common denominators. rather for 313, the printing press would be more like the vinyl cutting machine, the synthesizer, or roland drummachines. -a PS anyways how awesome is that Mills piece ?! On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:45 PM, David Powers wrote: > This would be better discussed on the .microsound mailing list, but > suffice it to say that without the printing press we probably wouldn't > have Franz Kafka and Italo Calvino, not to mention the Age of > Enlightenment and the American Revolution. > > I don't believe in "democracy" per se, but surely access to the means > of production also means access for geniuses no matter how many > imbeciles may also have their say. The problem is lack of education, > not excess of democracy in the means of cultural production. > > ~David > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Andrew Beddow > wrote: >>> now with the democratization of djing, everyone knows how to dj >>> supposedly the printing press was indeed an innovation, but the >>> quality of literary output is surely down in a world where literacy is >>> epidemic and books are published every day only to be thrown out the >>> next, where writing has devolved into txting and blogging. just as it >>> is with the written word, so too with electronic music in my book. >>> >> >> oh my god, incredible analogy. sorry, have nothing to contribute to >> this discussion, but amazing! text speak is the fault of the printing >> press! >> >> andrew >> >
Re: (313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
This would be better discussed on the .microsound mailing list, but suffice it to say that without the printing press we probably wouldn't have Franz Kafka and Italo Calvino, not to mention the Age of Enlightenment and the American Revolution. I don't believe in "democracy" per se, but surely access to the means of production also means access for geniuses no matter how many imbeciles may also have their say. The problem is lack of education, not excess of democracy in the means of cultural production. ~David On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Andrew Beddow wrote: >> now with the democratization of djing, everyone knows how to dj >> supposedly the printing press was indeed an innovation, but the >> quality of literary output is surely down in a world where literacy is >> epidemic and books are published every day only to be thrown out the >> next, where writing has devolved into txting and blogging. just as it >> is with the written word, so too with electronic music in my book. >> > > oh my god, incredible analogy. sorry, have nothing to contribute to > this discussion, but amazing! text speak is the fault of the printing > press! > > andrew >
Re: (313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
well, as with vinyl - Amazon's "Kindle" has nothing on printed and bound books the details and feeling of the binding, the quality of the paper, the smell of the book, the little joy in slowly turning the page, and the whole culture of bookstores, etc. all missed out by the digital book reader in the end I suppose it matters now how you get the message across to the audience (words or music) but it is those nuances that make the experience different imho, like how digital cuts out music into little blocks of sound - you lose something there just as the reader is missing out with the digital word my 2ยข and I'm out MEK Andrew Beddow wrote on 02/17/2009 01:13:48 PM: > > now with the democratization of djing, everyone knows how to dj > > supposedly the printing press was indeed an innovation, but the > > quality of literary output is surely down in a world where literacy is > > epidemic and books are published every day only to be thrown out the > > next, where writing has devolved into txting and blogging. just as it > > is with the written word, so too with electronic music in my book. > > > > oh my god, incredible analogy. sorry, have nothing to contribute to > this discussion, but amazing! text speak is the fault of the printing > press! > > andrew
Re: (313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
> now with the democratization of djing, everyone knows how to dj > supposedly the printing press was indeed an innovation, but the > quality of literary output is surely down in a world where literacy is > epidemic and books are published every day only to be thrown out the > next, where writing has devolved into txting and blogging. just as it > is with the written word, so too with electronic music in my book. > oh my god, incredible analogy. sorry, have nothing to contribute to this discussion, but amazing! text speak is the fault of the printing press! andrew
Re: (313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
My take on all this is theres no excuse for a serato dj not to have 20-30 recs on him just in case A dj can do damage for at least a good lil while with that number of records anyways, i still think vinyl always sounds better, unless youre carl craig and you use a radar hard recording system to burn your vinyl with expensive converters... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/articles/izradar.asp?print=yes he outfits that with crazy converters being c2 anyway, whats the point of playing an amazing system w mp3s and such? do you think the paradise garage, music box, or MI could have gone down with serato ? the time and effort required to acquire a sick record collection and then to know how to play it out in a set and tell a story used to help ensure that only those djs knew how to dj would get to djthey were the ones who had already made a huge sacrifice. now with the democratization of djing, everyone knows how to dj supposedly the printing press was indeed an innovation, but the quality of literary output is surely down in a world where literacy is epidemic and books are published every day only to be thrown out the next, where writing has devolved into txting and blogging. just as it is with the written word, so too with electronic music in my book. -alex ps. having said all that, i am a futurist, and innovation is where its at. but i think being judicious about how you go about it is key. and in a world full of amazing dollar records (think of how many copies of vanity 6 are out there), it still makes $ense to own vinyl On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Andrew Duke wrote: >> On 17 February 2009, kent williams wrote: >> >>> I've seen loads of DJs play boring sets with no consideration for >>> their audience, using good ol vinyl and turntables. To paraphrase the >>> NRA, "Technology doesn't bore a crowd, DJs bore a crowd." > > Exactly! > > I think the important thing to remember is not process, but results. > So much of this turntables vs software talk has nothing to do with ears, > it is all eyes, to be honest. > > I've often wondered about this scenario: > 2 friends who love the same music attend a party together; one is sighted, > the other has 100% loss of vision in her/his eyes; after the party, both > want to > talk about the music they listened and danced to that night; while the > non-sighted > person ends up talking about the music, chances are pretty darn high the > sighted person is going to have been influenced in his talk by having seen > who used tables vs who used tables and/or software, who was the flashy DJ > vs who was low-key, perhaps also by what sex DJs were (many "listen" to a > female DJ differently for some reason), age, skin color, fashion sense or > lack > thereof, interaction with the crowd, etc, etc, etc; so many many things that > don't have any affect on the music heard. Like does Strings Of Life played > by > a woman who is 23, uses only turntables and wears baggy trousers sound > different than the same > song played on the same sound system via turntable via Traktor Scratch by a > man > of different age, clothing, etc, etc. Of course not! With the sighted > person, s/he is likely going > to talk about the music seen/heard, not simply heard whereas the non-sighted > person won't talk about the music "seen", just heard. (I'm not going to get > into that non-sighted people use their ears in a more heightened manner > because > of not having visual sight; I'm just using this drastic juxtaposition to try > to do > a proper contrast to make the point). > > Personally, I don't give a darn what kind of set-up the DJs uses (ie what my > eyes see > in a DJ), I care about what my ears hear from that DJ in question. I don't > like to > watch music videos, I want to hear the darn music not see it, unless we're > talking > about a live PA, and that's a whole different story; we're talking DJs, not > live acts here. > > I tell my sound design and music production students over and over again to > turn > the screen off or look away from it when listening to their work. That > visual BS > that Windows Media Player defaults to play? That's turned off in my classes > because > it affects, even if subliminally, how you're experiencing the music. > This past Sunday, a student, instead of playing his homework in an audio > player (Mac > students in this case, so whatever the Mac player is called), wanted > to play it in an audio editor to SHOW us the waveform version of his > homework > and blab on about this section vs that section, pointing to the screen and > the like; > I said "No way, we're listening to your homework, not watching it. > We want to hear you song with no visuals, not watch the waveform scrolling > by in an audio editor. If you play this music for other people in future, > they're going > to judge it with their ears; they're not going to demand to see a visual > representation of > it before judging whether they dig it or not!" > So man
Re: (313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
Andrew, that was awesome! > I think the important thing to remember is not process, but results. > So much of this turntables vs software talk has nothing to do with ears, > it is all eyes, to be honest. > At the Shake/Todd Osborn party in Detroit this past Friday, my friend (who is a DJ), said she had to close her eyes and turn around during part of Todd's set so that she could enjoy the music! And she loved it! Denise -- Denise Dalphond Ph.D. Candidate Department of Folklore & Ethnomusicology Indiana University www.denisedjsdetroit.blogspot.com
(313) DJing & the visual aspect (was Mills interview/Wire mag)
On 17 February 2009, kent williams wrote: I've seen loads of DJs play boring sets with no consideration for their audience, using good ol vinyl and turntables. To paraphrase the NRA, "Technology doesn't bore a crowd, DJs bore a crowd." Exactly! I think the important thing to remember is not process, but results. So much of this turntables vs software talk has nothing to do with ears, it is all eyes, to be honest. I've often wondered about this scenario: 2 friends who love the same music attend a party together; one is sighted, the other has 100% loss of vision in her/his eyes; after the party, both want to talk about the music they listened and danced to that night; while the non-sighted person ends up talking about the music, chances are pretty darn high the sighted person is going to have been influenced in his talk by having seen who used tables vs who used tables and/or software, who was the flashy DJ vs who was low-key, perhaps also by what sex DJs were (many "listen" to a female DJ differently for some reason), age, skin color, fashion sense or lack thereof, interaction with the crowd, etc, etc, etc; so many many things that don't have any affect on the music heard. Like does Strings Of Life played by a woman who is 23, uses only turntables and wears baggy trousers sound different than the same song played on the same sound system via turntable via Traktor Scratch by a man of different age, clothing, etc, etc. Of course not! With the sighted person, s/he is likely going to talk about the music seen/heard, not simply heard whereas the non-sighted person won't talk about the music "seen", just heard. (I'm not going to get into that non-sighted people use their ears in a more heightened manner because of not having visual sight; I'm just using this drastic juxtaposition to try to do a proper contrast to make the point). Personally, I don't give a darn what kind of set-up the DJs uses (ie what my eyes see in a DJ), I care about what my ears hear from that DJ in question. I don't like to watch music videos, I want to hear the darn music not see it, unless we're talking about a live PA, and that's a whole different story; we're talking DJs, not live acts here. I tell my sound design and music production students over and over again to turn the screen off or look away from it when listening to their work. That visual BS that Windows Media Player defaults to play? That's turned off in my classes because it affects, even if subliminally, how you're experiencing the music. This past Sunday, a student, instead of playing his homework in an audio player (Mac students in this case, so whatever the Mac player is called), wanted to play it in an audio editor to SHOW us the waveform version of his homework and blab on about this section vs that section, pointing to the screen and the like; I said "No way, we're listening to your homework, not watching it. We want to hear you song with no visuals, not watch the waveform scrolling by in an audio editor. If you play this music for other people in future, they're going to judge it with their ears; they're not going to demand to see a visual representation of it before judging whether they dig it or not!" So many people don't get this aspect of music--listen to it and appreciate it with your ears. Students so often want to show me/the class their song and this that and the other thing in the waveform display of it, and I'm like "no way, we'll experience it with our ears, thank you, not our darn eyes!!!" I teach a sound and music class, not a visual art class! For a long time I had 3 turntables, but due to having mortgage payments and other bills, I'm down to 1 Technics 1200 these days. I could use something like Traktor Scratch or Serato, etc, to use the turntable live in conjunction with audio files on the computer when doing the show, but I don't do this because my daughter is keen on abusing my turntable at every opportunity so it is in a place high above her hands and thus totally not in a good place for using to mix with. So my mixshow is done with Traktor; any vinyl I want to play is recorded into and saved as a WAV file on the computer; a bit time-consuming, but after having a dog chew on vinyl and having my daughter try to destroy records and the tonearm, I'm willing to do this until she (and the forthcoming son due June 13) are old enough to allow daddy to use his turntable in a "live" manner later in their lives; maybe some don't know this, but while many songs synch perfectly with software like Traktor, Serato, Ableton et al, most still need to be nudged and adjusted just like one would with pitch control on a turntable. (And there's still a human being doing the actual song choice and song order ie programming). Traktor, Ableton, and the others can do some tempo synching, but they don't pick the songs! :) Listen to my mixshow; it's full of mistakes, but I think the fact that I play music from t
