Re: [313] Jazz IS the teacher!
not to mention all of the great jazz guitarists...wes montgomery!!, kenny burrell, grant green, charlie christian, emmett ray, joe pass, etc...and only a passing mention of django. the guitar in jazz simply does not exist in the burns/marsalis' world. Greg Malcolm From: "FRED MCMURRY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Jazz IS the teacher! Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:56:51 I just realized all the other great artists that are missing from Burns' version of Jazz... Alic Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders, Eric Dolphy, Albert Ayers, George Russell, Roscoe Mitchell, oh man! Burns and Wynton Marsalis are doing such an injustice to the music, all music. Fred _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Jazz IS the teacher!
I just realized all the other great artists that are missing from Burns' version of Jazz... Alic Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders, Eric Dolphy, Albert Ayers, George Russell, Roscoe Mitchell, oh man! Burns and Wynton Marsalis are doing such an injustice to the music, all music. Fred _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Jazz IS the teacher!
I just realized all the other great artists that are missing from Burns' version of Jazz... Alic Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders, Eric Dolphy, Albert Ayers, George Russell, Roscoe Mitchell, oh man! Burns and Wynton Marsalis are doing such an injustice to the music, all music. Fred From: "Jonny McIntosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "FRED MCMURRY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <313@hyperreal.org> Subject: [313] Jazz IS the teacher! Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:14:31 - > spinbacks, hard cuts, mixes that aren't seamless). So I guess the point is > established DJs need to share skills with others, it worked for jazz. Definitely. With jazz the communal spirit was most evident in the late 60s and early 70s and that seemed to be a necessary response to a lack of commercial opportunities. Even Lee Morgan, who had a fairly mainstream sound, was getting involved. Some great music came about this way, and in the face of extreme financial pressure. Sun Ra's massive entourage lived on meagre amounts in a dilapidated house in Philadelphia and made some of the most way ahead of it's time music ever. In Detroit there was Marcus Belgrave and all the Tribe lot, who gathered local musicians (in the wake of Motown's departure to LA) and put out self financed LPs, put on music workshops etc. There's the well known example of the Art Ensemble of Chicago, too. This sort of thing is in spirit what UR are doing just now. Strip away the guerrilla imagery and you see it's a pretty apt metaphor for what they *are* doing: their urban regeneration, promotion of unknown local talent etc. Arguably, UR are also pretty commercially successful for their genre, too, so it doesn't require the financial asceticism. It's a method that works in all kinds of ways. And I wish it was an example more people stuck to: get involved with like minded souls (DJs, folk with sound systems, promoters), and don't d**k them over, just to get yourself ahead. Not only is it a s**t thing to do as a person, but it's a stupid thing to do, as well. As you can see, then: IMnsHO, Jazz is the teacher :) Jonny - should put up or shut up, FJ? ;) P.S. As for the Burns documentary, it does seem outrageous. We won't get it for a while, but I have heard enough for me to be watching it with teeth firmly clenched in advance. The dig at Cecil Taylor seems particularly gratuitous. It sounds like he was only there to be knocked down. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
Jazz is the Teacher,Funk is the Preacher !!! Jose Bello ___ Do You Yahoo!? Consiga gratis su dirección @yahoo.es en http://correo.yahoo.es
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
---Phred wrote--- Does anyone remember the pbs rock-n-roll documentary? it did the same thing in the last episode it went from punk rock(mid '70s) to present. I disliked how he skipped some very influential bands(like Can), but enjoyed the 10 mins of iggy pop. did ken burns do the rock n roll pbs special anyone know? scotto http://www.mp3.com/i_majin
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
on 1/11/2001 7:18 PM, Fred Heutte at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > last *40* years of jazz will be compressed into one single episode of > the Ken Burns series?! This doesn't just leave out the "loungy and hip > jazz of the 50s and 60s." It leaves out: [snip] > Pharaoh Sanders, and so much more. Notable additions in my mind: (Detroit's own) Yusef Lateef and Ronald Shannon Jackson; but then again, there are so many names to mention. FYI: Yusef is playing 2/16 at Orchestra Hall. > And I didn't even > mention Latin jazz, which has had so much history and development since > the late 1950s -- I saw Pete Escovedo's big band play an outdoor gig in > San Francisco last summer that just blew my sox off. Note to 80s babies who didn't know this: Pete is Sheila E.'s papa. Sheila E. of Prince percussion fame. > The post-1960 history is messy, > convoluted, doesn't flow in a single linear direction, doesn't have deep > and common themes I'd wait for time to tell on that one. The huge and common themes that Burns likes to express might not appear for post-modern art forms until 2050 or so. Wait until the Next Big Thing forces us to give it closure and analysis. -- There4IM "Techno Rebels: The background and components of Detroit Techno" http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=there4im
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
Is it really possible, as I read in the New York Times review, that the last *40* years of jazz will be compressed into one single episode of the Ken Burns series?! This doesn't just leave out the "loungy and hip jazz of the 50s and 60s." It leaves out: post-bop, Albert Ayler, MJQ, the Art Ensemble, the later Art Blakey & Jazz Messengers, all of Miles post-Kind of Blue, "fusion" and "fuzak", the entire mid-70s east coast scene from which later sprang go go (via Chuck Brown) and trip hop (via Donald Byrd and so on), Weather Report, Wes Montgomery, Herbie Hancock, the third generation big bands (Akiyoshi-Tabackin especially), Branford Marsalis, Abdullah Ibrahim, Pat Metheny, the later Trane (and Alice Coltrane too), the "free jazz" movement, the jazz/electronic experiments (up to and including Carl Craig's and last spring's Transmat Time/Space band), Pharaoh Sanders, and so much more. And I didn't even mention Latin jazz, which has had so much history and development since the late 1950s -- I saw Pete Escovedo's big band play an outdoor gig in San Francisco last summer that just blew my sox off. And all that since 1960. But Burns is ever the classicist as a historian and TV producer, so there you have it. The post-1960 history is messy, convoluted, doesn't flow in a single linear direction, doesn't have deep and common themes and thus is "post-modern" and difficult to cover coherently in a mass-audience presentation like the current series... I'm not a huge jazz fan, really, but I have major respect for the fact that it continues to live and evolve, not in the retrospective sense that, say, punk and bluegrass do (to name two very different musical genres that have some interesting parallels developmentally), but in the truly evolutionary sense. phred
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 1/11/01 10:08:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >Interesting indeed.but because it doesn't really deal much with the > >last 30 yearsI'm positive techno won't be in there at all. > > > >BUT they do describe early jazz as being "a sound never before heard." > > If > >that doesn't describe technoI don't know what does. > > > > If the documentary is as long as I think it is, I'm sure they'll mention the > last 30 years. > I've seen Ken's other works and they seem quite thorough. Besides even if it > doesn't > delve into the electronic/future of Jazz, it should at least include up until > the 50's/60's era. I'm familiar with the seriesand he spends one episode on everything after approximately 1965. In his Civil War serieshe didn't really deal with slavery, which for non-Americans who don't know, is central to the War Between the States. In response to critics who pointed this outhe simply said that he didn't want to rehash that subject. Up until (and including) that documentary, there has never even BEEN a documentary on the enslavement. Burns just didn't have the chops to deal with the subjecteither personally or professionally. I think the same thing is at work here. THe period after 65--with the movement away from bebop and cool towards more eclectic forms of music--is more contested than perhaps he wants to deal with in his documentary. So he gives it an episode and pretty much throws it away. Explains himself by saying that he wanted to focus on true "history" rather than on the "present moment." As if you could say with a straight face that 1970 is the same as 2001. peace lks
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
In a message dated 1/11/01 2:35:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Burns covers from the 60's until the present in the final episode I believe. > > > >Ryan Heard Oh one more thing, Jazz is not coming on tonight because "The Clinton Years" on Frontline will be on. The next Jazz installment is on Jan 15th, just so you know. =) Thank god for PBS!! Peace, G l y p h (no cable)
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
In a message dated 1/11/01 10:08:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Interesting indeed.but because it doesn't really deal much with the >last 30 yearsI'm positive techno won't be in there at all. > >BUT they do describe early jazz as being "a sound never before heard." > If >that doesn't describe technoI don't know what does. > If the documentary is as long as I think it is, I'm sure they'll mention the last 30 years. I've seen Ken's other works and they seem quite thorough. Besides even if it doesn't delve into the electronic/future of Jazz, it should at least include up until the 50's/60's era. G l y p h
RE: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
Burns covers from the 60's until the present in the final episode I believe. Ryan Heard -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher... on 1/11/2001 9:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Yep but this thing is on the 3rd episode with 7 more to go(I think). I'm most > certain they'll cover that era. I wouldn't be too hopeful about any coverage of the "future" of jazz, or it's influence on hip-hop, pop, or electronic music. It's clear that Burn's is telling the story of Jazz's creation and growth, and prefers the safety of the first few decades. Here's an interesting Metro Times article: http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=1166 Nonetheless, I am expecting the DVD set before the week is out. I'll probably start at the end and work backwards... -- There4IM - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
Kodwo Eshun deals with this oversight of later jazz in his book "More Brilliant than the Sun": "The last 2 decades of jazz consitute a collective machine for forgetting the years '68-75, the Era when its leading players engineered jazz into a Afrodelic Space Program, an Alien World Electronics. 70s fusion, 80s neo-classical, 90s Acid Jazz, jazz rap, freejazz: all these bitter enemies are united in their abosulte aversion/amnesia to the Jazz Fission Age. All hark back to before or after the Electronic Era that starts with George Russell's '68 Electronic Sonata for Souls Loved by Nature and ends with Macero's & Miles's Dark Magus in '75." I don't agree 100 percent with this statement but he deffinately has a strong argument (developed in the book). Fred From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <313@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:27:38 -0500 on 1/11/2001 9:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Yep but this thing is on the 3rd episode with 7 more to go(I think). I'm most > certain they'll cover that era. I wouldn't be too hopeful about any coverage of the "future" of jazz, or it's influence on hip-hop, pop, or electronic music. It's clear that Burn's is telling the story of Jazz's creation and growth, and prefers the safety of the first few decades. Here's an interesting Metro Times article: http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=1166 Nonetheless, I am expecting the DVD set before the week is out. I'll probably start at the end and work backwards... -- There4IM - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > Was wondering if any of you are checking out the new Ken Burns' documentary, > called "Jazz" on PBS? > I'm also wondering what it'll say about Jazz in regards to influencing > techno, if any. > > It is coming on every night this week and next @ 9 PM EST/CST. So far, the > stories are quite deep and interesting... Interesting indeed.but because it doesn't really deal much with the last 30 yearsI'm positive techno won't be in there at all. BUT they do describe early jazz as being "a sound never before heard." If that doesn't describe technoI don't know what does.
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
on 1/11/2001 9:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Yep but this thing is on the 3rd episode with 7 more to go(I think). I'm most > certain they'll cover that era. I wouldn't be too hopeful about any coverage of the "future" of jazz, or it's influence on hip-hop, pop, or electronic music. It's clear that Burn's is telling the story of Jazz's creation and growth, and prefers the safety of the first few decades. Here's an interesting Metro Times article: http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=1166 Nonetheless, I am expecting the DVD set before the week is out. I'll probably start at the end and work backwards... -- There4IM
Re: [313] Jazz is the Teacher...
In a message dated 1/11/01 7:48:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >I've been watching it and for the most part like the documentary. The knock >on it from the reviews I've read is that it doesn't go into the current >state of jazz or its future, so I doubt it'll mention techno, which is >unfortunate. >The other criticism is that Ken Burns has managed to insert >Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington in every episode, kind of emphasizing >them as the kings of jazz. Yeah, I spoke to Alan Oldham tonight about this program and he has the same gripe too...that it was all about the early jazz and not about the smoky blue-light, with cigarette in hand, blowin' on a trumpet, loungy & hip jazz of the 50's and 60's. >No doubt there influence is great, but what >about giants like Miles Davis or more experimental Ornette Coleman and >Mingus? It's a good history, but not definitive in my opinion. I definitely >would liked to see more on jazz's future. > Yep but this thing is on the 3rd episode with 7 more to go(I think). I'm most certain they'll cover that era. Heck, they have yet to mention Bille Holiday, my fave!!! As they say, "It's not over, till its over!" g l y p h
