Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
You're totally right. It's not their "fault." But it doesn't excuse the fact that they make their decisions on money. That's what we're arguing here. Not whether they make money, but _how_ they make money. Pay attention. -Beau --- If businesses are not to make decisions based on money, how should they make decisions? Businesses that don't make decisions based on money FAIL. Corporations do nice little "feel good" projects all the time, but they do it beacuse the good PR will make them money in the end. As I stated, as long as businesses are making money in an ethical way, nobody has a right to tell them how to conduct business. There's nothing unethical about pushing trance because it makes money and ignoring techno because it doesn't make money. It would be unethical for a business to make decisions with no regard for money because it puts their employees at risk. People act as if there's a corporate conspiracy to hold Detroit/african americans/techno down. Its simply not true. People who feel this way need to wake up and realize that most people just don't really care to hear techno. More than a few Detroiters have made a fairly nice living out of techno. I'm not going to cry for them because they're not multimillion dollar techno stars. Being good at what you do, in music or otherwise, has never guaranteed that sort of sucess. If you want the businesses to change, you have to change the consumer first. Businesses react to demand. It is completely assinine to expect businesses to make major decisions without considering the financial aspect of their decisions. How would you feel is someone told you to plan your life with no regard to money? = Krhn! - [Detroit Intelectronic Listowner ] [aim : krhn3][Visual ID - http://facelink.com/Krhn ] [Intelligent Electronic Music Discussion: ] [http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/intelectronic] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
--- Otto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Nope. There's been extensive research on why people start businesses and > it cinsistently shows that it's for exactly those 'smaller' reasons you > mentioned: freedom, autonomy, doing what you believe in, etc. Money is > never the primary reason (bar the odd obvious attempt at a dot.com > cash-in but even they're a minority). Sure, you need to make enough > money to survive and maybe grow your business, but the main driver is > being able to earn a living by doing what you love instead of by doing > what someone else tells you. The point I was trying to make is that nobody goes into business thinking "I want to break even or lose money." And nobody expect them to act that way. = Krhn! - [Detroit Intelectronic Listowner ] [aim : krhn3][Visual ID - http://facelink.com/Krhn ] [Intelligent Electronic Music Discussion: ] [http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/intelectronic] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Jayson B. wrote: > >Anyone that makes techno can just as easily make trance if > >they so choose. If you choose your integrity over money that's you're > >choice. It's not the businessman's fault that the result of your choice > >does not sell. You're totally right. It's not their "fault." But it doesn't excuse the fact that they make their decisions on money. That's what we're arguing here. Not whether they make money, but _how_ they make money. Pay attention. -Beau ...834U.8U5K3..http://www.0x00 ..hyperreal.org/~beau..[+3!*..0x00 __end - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
Ask Mike Banks how he feels about the 'Jaguar' trancified rip-off act that Sony perpetrated undermining his record sales which, once again, doesn't invalidate jeff's point, it only reinforces it: it was UR's choice NOT to go with sony, and not to sign the deal to make it big (sony's decision to steal the track is a totally separate arguement). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
History is full of starving artists. which was their choice, which validates jeff's comment. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
I could see why the person who e-mailed you might have thought that. The title of the article is "Underground Resistance", but apparently it's actually about an artist named "Kosheen". Still, I think it's kind of tacky to name the article that. Peep it: http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=48&releaseid=9 927&magazinearticleid=142314&siteid=15 -J on 3/2/02 12:46 AM, laura gavoor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Someone emailed me today and another told me that they heard there is a new > group on the cover of the new Remix magazine called Underground Resistance. > Can anyone corroborate that as a fact??? Nancy Mitchell??? Any listees from > Japan??? > > If so, than "resistance IS futile" and we WILL all soon be assimilated. - This message was sent via the BiznessOnline.com webmail system. http://www.biznessonline.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
History is full of starving artists. yes, but most of the talented ones have generally been ripped off by the greedy >Anyone that makes techno can just as easily make trance if >they so choose. If you choose your integrity over money that's you're >choice. It's not the businessman's fault that the result of your choice >does not sell. Ask Mike Banks how he feels about the 'Jaguar' trancified rip-off act that Sony perpetrated undermining his record sales i'm dying to see someone argue with this point. fantastic shit jeff! _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
-Comparing Slasha and Dickweeds fame vs detroit artists. --Well these people get fame from people who dont know better. Their music is disposable. Who really cares? they wont be remembered for being pioneers. I have every reason to believe that they most certainly will, music history in this country has proven that fact time and time again. But again, I'll reiterate that my issue was never with those individual artists but with the propaganda/promotion machine driving that drivel straight to the top of our game. -Cheesy artists making money --Do we really care? Money are power corrupts, i still go by the old UR moto, remain underground.. -Race/ Culture and who owns music. Hey i don't get this?, no race culture owns music, music has no colour. And apparently no one owns their own music or name Someone emailed me today and another told me that they heard there is a new group on the cover of the new Remix magazine called Underground Resistance. Can anyone corroborate that as a fact??? Nancy Mitchell??? Any listees from Japan??? If so, than "resistance IS futile" and we WILL all soon be assimilated. _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Re: The Great White blah......
Everyone has to take part, every person counts. It's our duty as techno loving snobs to educate the ones around us. I've been doing it ever since my pilgrimage to DEMF last year. I was schooled by the music i heard and the people i met, it inspired me to start producing and to get more involved. I go out to clubs and talk to people about why techno is so much more intelligent and funkier than other "club" music. I tell them to read Dan Sicko's techno rebels because that was the beginning of my foundation. Case in point, I work at a wall st firm that is predominantly jewish and had an office mate that would play alanis morrisette and other crap music. Gradually I started playing my techno cd's , real audio sets, etc... and explained to him why techno music is intersting, who founded it, the story behind the beat. Just recently we each got our own offices and he just today asked me for some real audio links to my techno music because he had really taken a liking to it and missed hearing it. I did the same with my non-techno loving friends, family, etc.. it's baby steps but at least it's steps. I don't claim to be a techno producer [ not yet anyway;) ], in the business, or whatever other credentials i'm supposed to have to speak intelligbly about the techno scene but i can say for one thing I've turned an ass load of people onto techno. How many people have YOU converted? All this talk about the great white whatever saddens me, it's as though people in the industry have given up to this so called "conspiracy theory". -Pete -Original Message- From: Pond, Quest [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:12 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313] Re: The Great White blah.. Regarding Business Just wanted to say my bit cause all this talk of business and fame is making me feel queasy: -Comparing Slasha and Dickweeds fame vs detroit artists. --Well these people get fame from people who dont know better. Their music is disposable. Who really cares? they wont be remembered for being pioneers. -Cheesy artists making money --Do we really care? Money are power corrupts, i still go by the old UR moto, remain underground. Real life experience fires the artistic flames, this includes living life's high and lows and not shacked up behind a glass window in a playboy mansion buried in talcum powder. -Race/ Culture and who owns music. Hey i don't get this?, no race culture owns music, music has no colour. -Business vs Music. Its unfortunate artists have to balance finance and creative concern. This two attitudes run counteract each other entirely. Its important music is produced for its own sake not for what you think other people might want or not for what might sell well. As soon as you give into these rules you compromise quality. Quest -- WORLDCOM. THE BEST COMMUNICATION SERVICES IN THE WORLD. -- Based on World Communications Association 2001 Award For more information, visit www.worldcom.com/asiapacfic - This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and then destroy any copies of it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
History is full of starving artists. -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah.. Regarding Business >Anyone that makes techno can just as easily make trance if >they so choose. If you choose your integrity over money that's you're >choice. It's not the businessman's fault that the result of your choice >does not sell. i'm dying to see someone argue with this point. fantastic shit jeff! _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
Anyone that makes techno can just as easily make trance if they so choose. If you choose your integrity over money that's you're choice. It's not the businessman's fault that the result of your choice does not sell. i'm dying to see someone argue with this point. fantastic shit jeff! _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Re: The Great White blah...... Regarding Business
x-l-ent! - Original Message - From: "Big Loda . Krhn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 12:42 Subject: [313] Re: The Great White blah.. Regarding Business > This entire thread has been great, but I'm really sick of businesspeople > being stereotyped as greedy, white, racist, homophobic, powermongers > intent on oppressing all minorities. > > People start businesses for one reason - to make money. There's a lot of > other smaller reasons to start a business; doing something you love, being > your own boss, ect. But the bottom line is that you start a business to > make money. > > To record execs, artists are no different than toasters and blenders. They > don't care if you're black, white, hispanic, asian, ect. They don't care > if you're male or female. They don't care about your plight trying to make > it in the world. Your sob story means nothing. They care wether you can > sell records and make them money. > > It is not the businessman's fault that techno does not sell very well. Nor > is it his duty to make it sell well. Businessmen have no obligation to any > market (scene) other than to provide a wanted product/service and to > provide that product/service in an ethical way. > > In the same way, artists have no obligation to work with businessmen or > give in to the demands of businessmen. If you don't like how the game is > played, start your own game. Go it alone and see how well you'll do. It's > easier now than ever to become successful without utilizing the > traditional systems in place. > > Put yourself in the businessman's shoes. If you have one million dollars > to develop a product (artist) and you have two choices, one being an > almost sure money-maker, and one being a real long shot, which do you > choose? You go with the money-maker every time. If you don't, your > business does not survive. > > Imagine 430-West being presented with the option of putting out a Random > Noise Generation album, or an The Impaler album. Which one do you think > they're gonna choose? The money-maker. Sure, The Impaler is a nice guy. > He's had it rough in the music scene. Nobody has given him much of a > chance. His music is great (heh, lets pretend here). But the bottom-line > is you don't invest your hard earned money on something that's probably > going to fail. That would just be stupid. > > Is the race card valid when applied to business? Sure, in some cases, but > not in the broad case of record industry. They only provide what will > sell. They have no obligation to do otherwise. If you're going to play the > race card, you have to attack the reasons why mainstream audiences would > rather buy whitebred pop than minority produced techno/house/whatever. > This might include attacking minority individuals that make the rest of > the race look bad (rappers with their 40s, guns, hoes, ect). Or maybe > attacking Europeans that claim (and may even believe) they brought > electronic music to the States. How about replacing affirmative action > with actual equality? Or taking on the people that could bring forth > quality schools in urban areas. I'm basically trying to show that the > problem is much larger than the record industry. It's wrong to expect > Virgin and Sony Records to mold the majority of people into what a handful > of people think music listeners should be like. It is simply not their > obligation to do so. > > You cannot blame record execs pushing what sells and then complain > yourself that you're not making money because you refuse to produce music > that sells. Anyone that makes techno can just as easily make trance if > they so choose. If you choose your integrity over money that's you're > choice. It's not the businessman's fault that the result of your choice > does not sell. > > I have the mindset of an ethical businessman. I don't care who you are or > what your story is. If I can make money off of you, I'll invest in > you/your product/your cause/whatever. Your value to me has nothing to do > with race, gender, or sexual preference. THAT'S equality, and it exists in > the business world. > > = > Krhn! - [Detroit Intelectronic Listowner ] > [aim : krhn3][Visual ID - http://facelink.com/Krhn ] > [Intelligent Electronic Music Discussion: ] > [http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/intelectronic] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball > http://sports.yahoo.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
