Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
>I think Cyclones statements below should be taken as relating to the eastern
>states. With perth Ben Stinga is on the job at Complex records and we get
>stuff at the same time the rest of the world does. Its all imports of
>course...
>Josh
Um, that's exactly my point: R&B/hip-hop records come into Australia
almost instantaneously on *import* but not necessarily as *local pressings*.
This has changed somewhat as labels like BMG Australia and Universal
Australia have appointed more open-minded execs who are up on urban music
and understand those markets.
Why is there still a delay from time to time?
A lot of US urban music labels are very US-centric and are not yet thinking
in terms of international marketing. A US single is chosen and video made
which is unsuitable for abroad - eg Biggie's Dead Wrong was chosen as the
first single from the current album (Born Again) when Notorious BIG (with
the Duran Duran sample) would be more likely to break in Australia and the
UK.
This prioritising by the US label can also cause delays here and there and a
lack of co-ordination with releases.
I know a former Universal Australia rep who used to lament the lack of
vision of Def Jam in relation to international markets.
True, sometimes the US labels delay releases so that that the media can be
coordinated or so that there is a US success story to pitch to international
territories.
But it's only the real R&B core who care about the latter. Universal has
tried and tried to break Mary J Blige to Australia for years but beyond the
kids in the 'hood she is still virtually unknown and underground, whereas
Macy Gray has broken in Australia and is not yet a gold artist in the US.
The difference is that Macy appeals to mainstream Australia but you don't
hear her tracks bumpin' in the R&B clubs because she has that rock and blues
thing goin' on.
More and more often we get urban releases at the same time as the US.
Changes to the tax ('parallel importing') means that some Australian labels
release material at the same time so as to not lose sales to import.
In some cases Australia has got product before Europe and even the US - like
Ma$e's recent album. Ma$e has actually done much better here than the US of
late - I am talking relatively, of course.
The important thing to note is that if urban records come in as imports,
those sales do not count as Australian sales but are added on to the US
sales, so there is no accurate data for Australian labels to assess the
urban market's growth.
There are some within the Australian R&B scene who believe that there is a
conspiratorial reason for this - there are forces at work in the industry
who do not want urban music to break in Australia.
Trust me, I know the Australian R&B/hip-hop market really well.
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
i think about this is all who gets first in big label, i know few artis included my self. when we were publishing from croatia it was like judgement day for us, in europe. everything is about money, its like this "you want to be first in the world" -show me the money!! and all respesct to kelis :) maurice __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
I think Cyclones statements below should be taken as relating to the eastern states. With perth Ben Stinga is on the job at Complex records and we get stuff at the same time the rest of the world does. Its all imports of course... Josh In Australia it comes down to the majors not having a clue about how to market urban music. The base for urban music is working class and ethnic and the labels are mainly staffed by people of Anglo backgrounds into rock. The urban kids do buy stuff on import and huge sales are lost. Dance releases are often delayed too. By the time Inner City's Good Life came out through Festival last year, they had lost the momentum in the clubs. With local pressings it is sometimes a scheduling and fiscal thing - Donell Jones' LP is about to drop now but that is because it's a quiet time of year release-wise and less likely to get looked over. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
In a message dated 2/10/00 7:05:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << With any top radio format I just think there's more hoops to jump through and also less of a language barrie with techno than hip-hop where alot of the phrases and slangs might not translate. >> You'd be surprised. The biggest mainstream music worldwide (no matter what the music business would have you believe) is Rap/R&B (note I don't say "hip-hop"). Whenever you have Japanese kids whose only English they know is the lyrics of a Method Man record (see the movie "The Show") and Japanese girls who fry their hair and go to tanning booths to look like Brandy, I'd say the language is universal. There are kids from Australia who talk more black than I do because of the records. Back to techno music. Having put out my own records since '92, I'd say its globalization has grown right along with faster overnight shipping companies like FedEx and DHL, the Internet and Watts Music being the only distributor of any real consequence (not to dis Nemesis, Hardwax, et al). Having a hot-ass track doesn't hurt either. a.
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
>lest anybody should get the wrong impression--hot 97 bascially plays the most >commercial pap imaginable (think endless slow jams for the 'ladies') >interspersed with equal time given to ads. >they used to have frankie knuckles spining from 2-4 on saturday nights. i >have >a pile of great tapes. but that was a few years back now. > let me take the chance to say radio sucks in new york. Agreed, Hot 97 is disappointing now. I used to listen to it all the time as well, then it faded to just "Old School At Noon" and "Funkarama Thursday" nights. Now I can't take it, it's the same shit over and over and over. Talk about getting programmed... I do have to say 98.7 Kiss can be sweet. It was most amazing a few years ago when Roger was still alive and doing his "Uptown Saturday Night" right into Jay "Mixin'" Dixon's "Kiss Club Classics." I have a ton of tapes from then. It's since been replaced by the Allen brothers doing "Saturday Night House Party" which can be really good but also lame in spots - which Roger's show never was. However Saturday nights bring out a lot of amazing music - some pre-techno "Detroit"-style sounds, like Was Not Was, Kano and Kraftwerk. environ * 73 mandeville drive * wayne, NJ 07470-6566 * USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.webspan.net/~environ
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
In a message dated 2/10/00 3:52:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Anyway, about Hot97: I was in NYC from July-September last year and listened to it quite a bit. One thing that struck me in the last one/two months or so, is the number of hiphop and r&b tunes that are new in the charts or on the radio here in the Netherlands (and I presume in most of Europe) that were in heavy rotation on Hot97 three to six *months* earlier. Some examples, some slighty more recent than others: Donell Jones - "U know what's up" (v. good r&b tune, btw) Montell Jordan - "Get it on tonite" (ditto) ODB - "Baby I got your money" 702 - "You don't know" (313 relevance courtesy of TP: Mark Kinchen produced this) Kelis - "Caught out there" aka 'I hate you so much right now' This several-month-lag between the US and Europe surprises me. >> Otto, With some of the music you just mentioned, it's critical that commercial r&b/rap like that get sales momentum in the States before a European release is justified. This explains the time lag. When I was in Rotterdam watching MTV and that new Dutch music channel, it was like I never left the States. Destiny's Child, Foxy Brown and Jay-Z with the occasional Eurotrashdisco track (Alice Deejay's "I Want You Back In My Life" became the unofficial theme song of the whole trip) to remind me I wasn't still in Detroit, music-wise. VIVA and VIVA Zwei (GER) are my favorite European music channels. Also consider that the acts you just named would probably be considered second or third-tier at best. Puff Daddy's album was available worldwide on the same day or within the same week (for all the good it did him). Will Smith's "Willennium" also. Kelis is gorgeous, isn't she ? She can hate me all she wants. a.
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
...Old Skool Jams has gotten me through many a work day. Anyway on the globalization subject I also think its because the "techno" (what ever the hell you wanna call it:) community is smaller, more intertwined. A DJ gets a white label from his own or a friend,plays it out, it gets heard and people go the next and start asking for it or the said DJ passes some whites around. Word of mouth travels fast, even faster if he's given copies to his buddys who are traveling/playing it more at diff't venues around the globe. Then you count in that you are dealing with less label and distribution hoopla because the sources are smaller and are therefore going to be able to respond to the audience faster. With any top radio format I just think there's more hoops to jump through and also less of a language barrie with techno than hip-hop where alot of the phrases and slangs might not translate. ...just a thought. diana __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
> > - Hiphop and r&b are much more controlled by major labels. They > > probably > > have a marketing strategy in which this lag is purposefully built in. > > The rationale for it is unclear to me though. I think this is about right. I had a friend who lived in europe last summer and he told me that the commercial dance tracks there are around before the blow up here. He had a few examples of songs you might hear on mtv or commercial crap radio (93.1 in detroit for example) whose names I don't know or care to know but we all would recognize. One that comes to mind is that La Da Dee La Da Da one that you hear all over which he said was like the song of the summer over in germany even though that was a while before it got drilled into skulls of americans. I've been told before that many of the shitty dance pop tunes (you know like in the venga boys, aqua, la bouche vein that get put on the sorrority girl friendly dance mix comps you see advertised on tv which some misguided souls might call techno) are popular in europe months or more before they get radio play in the US. So I've just always figured that the record companies program their hit computers like this. Since dance music has more commercial success in Europe that's like the test market to see if it will be worth releasing in the US. What you've said reaffirms my belief, they probably test hip hop and RnB for success in the states. fuck 'em all _joe
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
I'm not really sure how receptive Europe is to the hip-hop scene and culture... whereas here in the states, it's a mainstream thing, I've gotten the impression that it's more or less an underground culture of sorts overseas. That may (or may not?) have something to do with it. I'm just guessing here. The only point I want to add is that this so-called "lag" seems to be getting cut by modern communications technology... specifically, the Internet. Anyone can get online now and instantly know what is popular on one of the other continents, and forecast what will be popular in the coming months as it makes its way overseas (via MP3, RealAudio, etc). I can remember wa back in the 80's (LOL I feel silly saying that) listening to late night radio shows on Saturday or Sunday or whenever, trying to catch wind of what some of the fresh new music was, and where it was going to be coming from. Obviously, the advent of the net has altered this quite a bit. And then on the other hand, the record companies will continue to do what they want to do and decide what they think we want to hear from overseas and when, regardless of what is popular on the Internet... sort of making what I just stated in the previous paragraph totally pointless. :-) Matt E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://magicmattkelly.tripod.com > This several-month-lag between the US and Europe surprises me. > > With house and techno, if a track is not just on promo/white anymore and > is out officially, it's *out*. Worldwide. There may be a delay of a few > weeks, but certainly not months. Why this difference?
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
>This several-month-lag between the US and Europe surprises me. > >With house and techno, if a track is not just on promo/white anymore and >is out officially, it's *out*. Worldwide. There may be a delay of a few >weeks, but certainly not months. Why this difference? In Australia it comes down to the majors not having a clue about how to market urban music. The base for urban music is working class and ethnic and the labels are mainly staffed by people of Anglo backgrounds into rock. The urban kids do buy stuff on import and huge sales are lost. Dance releases are often delayed too. By the time Inner City's Good Life came out through Festival last year, they had lost the momentum in the clubs. With local pressings it is sometimes a scheduling and fiscal thing - Donell Jones' LP is about to drop now but that is because it's a quiet time of year release-wise and less likely to get looked over.
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
hi otto basically hot 97 is what makes or breaks tracks. so nothing is going to marketed distributed overseas by the record companies until it makes it on hot 97. hence the time lag. lest anybody should get the wrong impression--hot 97 bascially plays the most commercial pap imaginable (think endless slow jams for the 'ladies') interspersed with equal time given to ads. they used to have frankie knuckles spining from 2-4 on saturday nights. i have a pile of great tapes. but that was a few years back now. let me take the chance to say radio sucks in new york. james === Otto Koppius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 02/10/2000 03:45:22 PM (trust me, it will make sense below (well, hopefully anyway)) Andrew Duke wrote: > [Bobby] Konders has always been a big fan/proponent > of roots and culture. He has a show dedicated to it on Hot97, the main hiphop/r&b radio station in New York City, on Sunday afternoon. Also, I seem to remember that around lunch time on weekdays they have a 'classics' show with lots of great old electro, but I'm not sure whether that was Hot97 or another station. Anyway, about Hot97: I was in NYC from July-September last year and listened to it quite a bit. One thing that struck me in the last one/two months or so, is the number of hiphop and r&b tunes that are new in the charts or on the radio here in the Netherlands (and I presume in most of Europe) that were in heavy rotation on Hot97 three to six *months* earlier. Some examples, some slighty more recent than others: Donell Jones - "U know what's up" (v. good r&b tune, btw) Montell Jordan - "Get it on tonite" (ditto) ODB - "Baby I got your money" 702 - "You don't know" (313 relevance courtesy of TP: Mark Kinchen produced this) Kelis - "Caught out there" aka 'I hate you so much right now' This several-month-lag between the US and Europe surprises me. With house and techno, if a track is not just on promo/white anymore and is out officially, it's *out*. Worldwide. There may be a delay of a few weeks, but certainly not months. Why this difference? I can think of a few (partial) explanations: - Hiphop and r&b are much more controlled by major labels. They probably have a marketing strategy in which this lag is purposefully built in. The rationale for it is unclear to me though. - House and techno rely much more on grassroots marketing through word-of-mouth, reviews on mailing lists like these and others. Word travels fast (especially in an IT-savvy community like this one), so this creates instant demand for a track. Hence stores everywhere ordering it. - Word travels fast, but so do DJs (got any more travel stories Alan? :) Get a hot track in the right hands and within a few weeks it will have enough frequent flyer miles to forget which timezone it is in... Again instant near-global demand. Any thoughts? Otto
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
Another thought... Funkmaster Flex, Red Alert et al receive records months before anyone else, so naturally there will be a lag before they hit stores in NYC let alone Holland:) Also the majors probably only like to concentrate their marketing and PR on releaseing on one continent at a time - much like movie studios. Later - Mark* - Original Message - From: Otto Koppius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music? > (trust me, it will make sense below (well, hopefully anyway)) > > Andrew Duke wrote: > > > [Bobby] Konders has always been a big fan/proponent > > of roots and culture. > > He has a show dedicated to it on Hot97, the main hiphop/r&b radio > station in New York City, on Sunday afternoon. Also, I seem to remember > that around lunch time on weekdays they have a 'classics' show with lots > of great old electro, but I'm not sure whether that was Hot97 or another > station. > > Anyway, about Hot97: I was in NYC from July-September last year and > listened to it quite a bit. One thing that struck me in the last one/two > months or so, is the number of hiphop and r&b tunes that are new in the > charts or on the radio here in the Netherlands (and I presume in most of > Europe) that were in heavy rotation on Hot97 three to six *months* > earlier. > > Some examples, some slighty more recent than others: > Donell Jones - "U know what's up" (v. good r&b tune, btw) > Montell Jordan - "Get it on tonite" (ditto) > ODB - "Baby I got your money" > 702 - "You don't know" (313 relevance courtesy of TP: Mark Kinchen > produced this) > Kelis - "Caught out there" aka 'I hate you so much right now' > > This several-month-lag between the US and Europe surprises me. > > With house and techno, if a track is not just on promo/white anymore and > is out officially, it's *out*. Worldwide. There may be a delay of a few > weeks, but certainly not months. Why this difference? > > I can think of a few (partial) explanations: > - Hiphop and r&b are much more controlled by major labels. They probably > have a marketing strategy in which this lag is purposefully built in. > The rationale for it is unclear to me though. > - House and techno rely much more on grassroots marketing through > word-of-mouth, reviews on mailing lists like these and others. Word > travels fast (especially in an IT-savvy community like this one), so > this creates instant demand for a track. Hence stores everywhere > ordering it. > - Word travels fast, but so do DJs (got any more travel stories Alan? :) > Get a hot track in the right hands and within a few weeks it will have > enough frequent flyer miles to forget which timezone it is in... Again > instant near-global demand. > > Any thoughts? > > Otto >
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
In a message dated 2/10/00 3:52:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << - Word travels fast, but so do DJs (got any more travel stories Alan? :) Get a hot track in the right hands and within a few weeks it will have enough frequent flyer miles to forget which timezone it is in... Again instant near-global demand. Any thoughts? >> I think it has something to do with the fact that we have a global grassroots underground connection forged particularly (in techno) between Detroit and Berlin and since there are big distributors in those areas that get records out to America and Europe, respectively, this close bond is what helps globalize everything so fast. Yeah, when a track comes out, it's available _everywhere_, and with the advent of Internet mail order you can have it here before the local shops even get it. Personally, I think it's excellent, although a lot of times I wish ordering from overseas was a good deal less complicated. Matt
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
>Also, I seem to remember > that around lunch time on weekdays they have a 'classics' show with lots > of great old electro, but I'm not sure whether that was Hot97 or another > station. Old School At Noon w/ cool DJ Red Alert...brilliant stuff. > With house and techno, if a track is not just on promo/white anymore and > is out officially, it's *out*. Worldwide. There may be a delay of a few > weeks, but certainly not months. Why this difference? > Any thoughts? Those of us that are into House/Techno are more willing to pay a higher price for imports before they're *officially* released than Hip Hop/R and B fans. Just a thought. Peace - Mark*
Re: (313) The instant globalisation of music?
(trust me, it will make sense below (well, hopefully anyway)) Andrew Duke wrote: > [Bobby] Konders has always been a big fan/proponent > of roots and culture. He has a show dedicated to it on Hot97, the main hiphop/r&b radio station in New York City, on Sunday afternoon. Also, I seem to remember that around lunch time on weekdays they have a 'classics' show with lots of great old electro, but I'm not sure whether that was Hot97 or another station. Anyway, about Hot97: I was in NYC from July-September last year and listened to it quite a bit. One thing that struck me in the last one/two months or so, is the number of hiphop and r&b tunes that are new in the charts or on the radio here in the Netherlands (and I presume in most of Europe) that were in heavy rotation on Hot97 three to six *months* earlier. Some examples, some slighty more recent than others: Donell Jones - "U know what's up" (v. good r&b tune, btw) Montell Jordan - "Get it on tonite" (ditto) ODB - "Baby I got your money" 702 - "You don't know" (313 relevance courtesy of TP: Mark Kinchen produced this) Kelis - "Caught out there" aka 'I hate you so much right now' This several-month-lag between the US and Europe surprises me. With house and techno, if a track is not just on promo/white anymore and is out officially, it's *out*. Worldwide. There may be a delay of a few weeks, but certainly not months. Why this difference? I can think of a few (partial) explanations: - Hiphop and r&b are much more controlled by major labels. They probably have a marketing strategy in which this lag is purposefully built in. The rationale for it is unclear to me though. - House and techno rely much more on grassroots marketing through word-of-mouth, reviews on mailing lists like these and others. Word travels fast (especially in an IT-savvy community like this one), so this creates instant demand for a track. Hence stores everywhere ordering it. - Word travels fast, but so do DJs (got any more travel stories Alan? :) Get a hot track in the right hands and within a few weeks it will have enough frequent flyer miles to forget which timezone it is in... Again instant near-global demand. Any thoughts? Otto
