Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
I admit not to be the hugest fan, but has NC actullay released a tune without vocals? - Original Message - From: Mann, Ravinder [CCS] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Giles Dickerson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > Robin said > " > i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and > the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there > too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. > > does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch > the minds on? i don't really have an answer. > " > > There was a TV program that explored this issue. It argued that in the information age > we are exposed to more and more tonal frequencies and that these tones alone > are able to rouse certain emotions. The need for vocals is reduced as soundscape artists > seek to move us emotionly by tones in ever more complex ways. Interesting area... > something that techno has always understood. Waveform transmitions... > > > > -Original Message- > > From: robin pinning [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:45 PM > > To: Giles Dickerson > > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > > > > I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on > > >a large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure > > >occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a > > >video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are > > >easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing > > >thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. > > > > i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and > > the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there > > too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. > > > > does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch > > the minds on? i don't really have an answer. > > > > i also suspect that the marketing problem we are talking about here is a > > lot more acute in the states. vocal-less (and, as it happens, soul-less) > > records regularly make the top ten over here now. perhaps this suggests > > the problem also lies with radio stations too. bbc radio one (the most > > listened to station by young people over here) plays a huge range of music > > and doesn't stick to one particular type as a lot of stations over there > > do. > > > > > > > > robin.. > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
Robin said " i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch the minds on? i don't really have an answer. " There was a TV program that explored this issue. It argued that in the information age we are exposed to more and more tonal frequencies and that these tones alone are able to rouse certain emotions. The need for vocals is reduced as soundscape artists seek to move us emotionly by tones in ever more complex ways. Interesting area... something that techno has always understood. Waveform transmitions... > -Original Message- > From: robin pinning [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:45 PM > To: Giles Dickerson > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on > >a large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure > >occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a > >video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are > >easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing > >thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. > > i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and > the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there > too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. > > does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch > the minds on? i don't really have an answer. > > i also suspect that the marketing problem we are talking about here is a > lot more acute in the states. vocal-less (and, as it happens, soul-less) > records regularly make the top ten over here now. perhaps this suggests > the problem also lies with radio stations too. bbc radio one (the most > listened to station by young people over here) plays a huge range of music > and doesn't stick to one particular type as a lot of stations over there > do. > > > > robin.. > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
I cant totally agree because in Germany, Holland and Belgium I have seen a Techno scene that is totally thriving and full of young people - I havent been to Spain nor Ibitha (which is clealy over sold by now) Techno can be marketed to the masses, look at the number of TV commercials to which its sound provides the background muzak. Its most definately not marketed, hardly even available in the UK either; and in London, well "Techno" - mention that word to anyone and they'd say to ya "You don;t wanna take wot mate?". It can be marketed - Original Message - From: "Giles Dickerson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "laura gavoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Peter Leidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 06:37 Subject: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on a large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. Hence the explosion of "Everything but the girl". The grand reception of Bjorks "dance vocals". Hip hop is as close as we've come the beats are as heavy and great but there someone there singing and talking and on an average human level, people can connect with that easily. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 > -- > From: Peter Leidy > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 1:32 PM > To: laura gavoor > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [313] The Great White Hype...was IT'S ABOUT TIME!!! > > > First of all, this is one of the most thought-provoking threads I've read > in a while (nit-picking over curse words aside)- I'm glad the opinions are > being voiced and I'd like to hear more from those like Laura who have a > lot of direct industry experience with these issues. > > > firing off cannons. Recently while watching CNN, there was a news segment > > covering Elton John FLAMING the music industry for lowest common denominator > > marketing. He said that the good musicians and music were actively being > > passed over in favor of the rubbish msuic the industry was putting out...He > > Last night I saw a great PBS special that focused on this same problem of > LCD marketing- but in the realm of Film-Making- its called "The Monster > that ate Hollywood." There are tons of interviews with industry analysts, > journalists, producers and directors up on their site at: > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hollywood/ > > I think these issues of Pop Culture, Global Economy, LCD Marketing, etc. > are common across the various realms of Arts & Entertainment & similar > things are happening in each field right now from an economic standpoint. > > In terms of dance music getting serious attention- > I think the problem with house and techno is that there is not a good > stereotype of techno producer to market to teenage kids. I think the Major > Labels like to market stereotypes of Rebellious, Subversive, Cool, and > more recently pop-conscious-satiric characters that middle-class suburban > teens can relate to. The problem with house and techno is that when you > look for stereotypes- you have the gay club scene, the middle to lower > class minorities- but without the hip-hop egos and fashion, then also the > computer and synth geeks, none of which are sexy or cool to todays > teenagers. But when the London Rave scene appeared- here was something > more marketable- white kids sneaking out at night, taking drugs, and > partying to rave music, not to mention new marketable fashion trends to go > along with it. And of course, once they found something marketable, they > further bastardized the music into formulated candy-coated crap, just as > they did with disco 25 years ago. > > PS- I'm not even going to bring up the race issue- a whole other can of > worms- but I agree that the "race card" is not over-used- it is still a > serious problem with deep roots in the social and political policies that > govern our country. People need to be aware of this especially as it > becomes more subtle and disguised by other issues. > > -p > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
One word: Deregulation. When Clinton signed the bill I knew my favorite radio stations were going to go away - and you know what? They did. One became a country western station overnight (then it went hard rock, then "alternative", then r&b, now it's back to even more watered down "alternative") and two disappeared entirely. Oh yeah, another was busted for broadcasting illegally but that's a whole nuther story - well not really. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] mTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 03/01/02 01:28 PM Subject: Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses You might find some interesting points on this made by John Selway on Futurebpm.com. I interviewed him and we talked quite a bit about dance music in America and so on... Check it out...www.futurebpm.com, click FEATURE. Also, you've got radio and MTV here in America that is a complete joke. Turn on your FM radio and aside from college radio or NPR, what do you have? Country, rock & roll and hip hop. Maybe 2 variety stations that are all playing the same thing in one way or another as every station on the dial. Turn on MTV. How many Britney Spears and N Sync videos can we see? (Well, last time I checked MTV I haven't seen any videos...but that's a whole other story) Lots of reasons why dance music isn't larger. The support that would be needed just isn't there. Look at Europe or even Canada...their radio plays FAR more dance music than we do. When I was in Germany, I recalled seeing Ken Ishii on their MTV, interviews with Laurent Garnier, and so forth. Here in the US, MTV & the program AMP made SORT of an attempt, but who's watching on a Sunday at 2AM??? The UK has the BBC and countless other stations that really support dance music. Italy has a 24 hour station devoted to house music. Here? Clear Channel dominates the FM dial across the country with the same music across the board. =( Just my $.02 ... but do check out the Selway interview ... Later all! Kered Futurebpm.com In a message dated 3/1/2002 1:43:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on a > large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure > occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a > video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are > easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing > thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. > > Hence the explosion of "Everything but the girl". The grand reception of > Bjorks "dance vocals". > Hip hop is as close as we've come the beats are as heavy and great but > there someone there singing and talking and on an average human level, > people can connect with that easily. > > - Giles > > D I G I T A S // B O S T O N > -- > Giles Dickerson > Art Director > 800 Boylston Street > Boston, MA > 02199 > -- > mobile 617 899 9635 > office 617 369 8601 > > > -- > > From: Peter Leidy > > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 1:32 PM > > To: laura gavoor > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [313] The Great White Hype...was IT'S ABOUT TIME!!! > > > > > > First of all, this is one of the most thought-provoking threads I've read > > in a while (nit-picking over curse words aside)- I'm glad the opinions are > > being voiced and I'd like to hear more from those like Laura who have a > > lot of direct industry experience with these issues. > > > > > firing off cannons. Recently while watching CNN, there was a news > segment > > > covering Elton John FLAMING the music industry for lowest common > denominator > > > marketing. He said that the good musicians and music were actively > being > > > passed over in favor of the rubbish msuic the industry was putting > out...He > > &
Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
You might find some interesting points on this made by John Selway on Futurebpm.com. I interviewed him and we talked quite a bit about dance music in America and so on... Check it out...www.futurebpm.com, click FEATURE. Also, you've got radio and MTV here in America that is a complete joke. Turn on your FM radio and aside from college radio or NPR, what do you have? Country, rock & roll and hip hop. Maybe 2 variety stations that are all playing the same thing in one way or another as every station on the dial. Turn on MTV. How many Britney Spears and N Sync videos can we see? (Well, last time I checked MTV I haven't seen any videos...but that's a whole other story) Lots of reasons why dance music isn't larger. The support that would be needed just isn't there. Look at Europe or even Canada...their radio plays FAR more dance music than we do. When I was in Germany, I recalled seeing Ken Ishii on their MTV, interviews with Laurent Garnier, and so forth. Here in the US, MTV & the program AMP made SORT of an attempt, but who's watching on a Sunday at 2AM??? The UK has the BBC and countless other stations that really support dance music. Italy has a 24 hour station devoted to house music. Here? Clear Channel dominates the FM dial across the country with the same music across the board. =( Just my $.02 ... but do check out the Selway interview ... Later all! Kered Futurebpm.com In a message dated 3/1/2002 1:43:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on a > large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure > occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a > video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are > easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing > thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. > > Hence the explosion of "Everything but the girl". The grand reception of > Bjorks "dance vocals". > Hip hop is as close as we've come the beats are as heavy and great but > there someone there singing and talking and on an average human level, > people can connect with that easily. > > - Giles > > D I G I T A S // B O S T O N > -- > Giles Dickerson > Art Director > 800 Boylston Street > Boston, MA > 02199 > -- > mobile 617 899 9635 > office 617 369 8601 > > > -- > > From: Peter Leidy > > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 1:32 PM > > To: laura gavoor > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [313] The Great White Hype...was IT'S ABOUT TIME!!! > > > > > > First of all, this is one of the most thought-provoking threads I've read > > in a while (nit-picking over curse words aside)- I'm glad the opinions are > > being voiced and I'd like to hear more from those like Laura who have a > > lot of direct industry experience with these issues. > > > > > firing off cannons. Recently while watching CNN, there was a news > segment > > > covering Elton John FLAMING the music industry for lowest common > denominator > > > marketing. He said that the good musicians and music were actively > being > > > passed over in favor of the rubbish msuic the industry was putting > out...He > > > > Last night I saw a great PBS special that focused on this same problem of > > LCD marketing- but in the realm of Film-Making- its called "The Monster > > that ate Hollywood." There are tons of interviews with industry analysts, > > journalists, producers and directors up on their site at: > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hollywood/ > > > > I think these issues of Pop Culture, Global Economy, LCD Marketing, etc. > > are common across the various realms of Arts & Entertainment & similar > > things are happening in each field right now from an economic standpoint. > > > > In terms of dance music getting serious attention- > > I think the problem with house and techno is that there is not a good > > stereotype of techno producer to market to teenage kids. I think the Major > > Labels like to market stereotypes of Rebellious, Subversive, Cool, and > > more recently pop-conscious-satiric characters that middle-class suburban > > teens can relate to. The problem with house and techno is that when you > > look for stereotypes- you have the gay club scene, the middle to lower > > class minorities- but without the hip-hop egos and fashion, then also the > > computer and synth geeks, none of which are sexy or cool to todays > > teenagers. But when the London Rave scene appeared- here was something > > more marketable- white kids sneaking out at night, taking drugs, and > > partying to rave music, not to mention new marketable fashion trends to go > > along with it. And of course, once they found something marketable, they > > further bastardized the music into formulated candy-coated crap, just as > > they did with disco 25 years ago. > > > > PS- I'm not even go
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
"Best Dance Album" is a bold (and loaded statement) I could rattle all kinds of wierd stuff at that. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 > -- > From: Matthew Cloney > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 2:26 PM > To: Giles Dickerson; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > Right you are Giles, > > The issue of Muzik magazine that came out (in the States) about a month ago > has a one or two-page interview with Shadow, and lists it as the #1 dance > album of all-time... though I agree with the reader comments that were a > little surprised to see it at #1 as it's a bit tough to dance to. I do > think it's an amazing contribution to the genre, but I'm more partial to > Leftfield's "Leftism" as far as pure dancability. > > Cheers, > > -m > > -Original Message- > From: Giles Dickerson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:15 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org; Matthew Cloney > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > My God, Entroducing is an entirely notable work. His understanding of how > drums work is obvious in his programming. That's an amazign album, if you > listen to interviews you'll also see, he did that cut and paste style, very > very old school technique, using fairly lo-fi rgear. > > - Giles > > D I G I T A S // B O S T O N > -- > Giles Dickerson > Art Director > 800 Boylston Street > Boston, MA > 02199 > -- > mobile 617 899 9635 > office 617 369 8601 > > > ------ > > From: Matthew Cloney > > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 2:19 PM > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject:RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > I think historically there's been a hierarchy of musical popularity, and > it > > all has to do with how "human" the music is as far as mass appeal. I > would > > put things like experimental, industrial and techno at one end of the > > spectrum, and pop music at the other. On the one end you've got something > > that is, by design, more mechanical and detached... marked by what the > vast > > majority of the population would consider "noise," while pop music oozes > > this saccharine dribble, so sycophantic to the masses that it becomes a > > self-fulfilling prophecy. House is somewhere in-between. > > > > Having said that, I must confess that I'm a huge house fan. I like a lot > of > > different types of music though, and there are things that I like about > > every type of music that I listen to that draw me to that type of music > > (Tracey Thorn's voice is enough to make me melt, sight-unseen for > instance). > > > > I mean, we all know what it takes to write a song that will be popular > with > > the public at large... it takes true genius to create something that will > be > > popular with your own crowd (or, most importantly, yourself). > > > > And as far as electronic music artists "ripping off" other people, > > everything has been done before. Some people think DJ Shadow's > > "Endtroducing" is just pure plagiarism, while those who are a little more > > open-minded may consider it art. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -m > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: robin pinning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:53 AM > > To: Giles Dickerson > > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > > > > > >> Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a > > >single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. > > >We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks > > >it might be the artist or a singer. > > > > yeah fair point, that had occured to me when i compiled me last response,> > > and actually the above is reinforced by the fact the FBS uses a fat guy in > > all the marketing shots (someone has nowt to do with the music...actually > > some might argue FBS has little to do with the music as all he does is rip > > off (sample) other peoples stuff...but that's a whole other argument and > > is perhaps a little below the belt :) ) > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
Right you are Giles, The issue of Muzik magazine that came out (in the States) about a month ago has a one or two-page interview with Shadow, and lists it as the #1 dance album of all-time... though I agree with the reader comments that were a little surprised to see it at #1 as it's a bit tough to dance to. I do think it's an amazing contribution to the genre, but I'm more partial to Leftfield's "Leftism" as far as pure dancability. Cheers, -m -Original Message- From: Giles Dickerson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org; Matthew Cloney Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses My God, Entroducing is an entirely notable work. His understanding of how drums work is obvious in his programming. That's an amazign album, if you listen to interviews you'll also see, he did that cut and paste style, very very old school technique, using fairly lo-fi rgear. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 > -- > From: Matthew Cloney > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 2:19 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > I think historically there's been a hierarchy of musical popularity, and it > all has to do with how "human" the music is as far as mass appeal. I would > put things like experimental, industrial and techno at one end of the > spectrum, and pop music at the other. On the one end you've got something > that is, by design, more mechanical and detached... marked by what the vast > majority of the population would consider "noise," while pop music oozes > this saccharine dribble, so sycophantic to the masses that it becomes a > self-fulfilling prophecy. House is somewhere in-between. > > Having said that, I must confess that I'm a huge house fan. I like a lot of > different types of music though, and there are things that I like about > every type of music that I listen to that draw me to that type of music > (Tracey Thorn's voice is enough to make me melt, sight-unseen for instance). > > I mean, we all know what it takes to write a song that will be popular with > the public at large... it takes true genius to create something that will be > popular with your own crowd (or, most importantly, yourself). > > And as far as electronic music artists "ripping off" other people, > everything has been done before. Some people think DJ Shadow's > "Endtroducing" is just pure plagiarism, while those who are a little more > open-minded may consider it art. > > Cheers, > > -m > > > -Original Message- > From: robin pinning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:53 AM > To: Giles Dickerson > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > >> Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a > >single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. > >We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks > >it might be the artist or a singer. > > yeah fair point, that had occured to me when i compiled me last response, > and actually the above is reinforced by the fact the FBS uses a fat guy in > all the marketing shots (someone has nowt to do with the music...actually > some might argue FBS has little to do with the music as all he does is rip > off (sample) other peoples stuff...but that's a whole other argument and > is perhaps a little below the belt :) ) > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
My God, Entroducing is an entirely notable work. His understanding of how drums work is obvious in his programming. That's an amazign album, if you listen to interviews you'll also see, he did that cut and paste style, very very old school technique, using fairly lo-fi rgear. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 > -- > From: Matthew Cloney > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 2:19 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > I think historically there's been a hierarchy of musical popularity, and it > all has to do with how "human" the music is as far as mass appeal. I would > put things like experimental, industrial and techno at one end of the > spectrum, and pop music at the other. On the one end you've got something > that is, by design, more mechanical and detached... marked by what the vast > majority of the population would consider "noise," while pop music oozes > this saccharine dribble, so sycophantic to the masses that it becomes a > self-fulfilling prophecy. House is somewhere in-between. > > Having said that, I must confess that I'm a huge house fan. I like a lot of > different types of music though, and there are things that I like about > every type of music that I listen to that draw me to that type of music > (Tracey Thorn's voice is enough to make me melt, sight-unseen for instance). > > I mean, we all know what it takes to write a song that will be popular with > the public at large... it takes true genius to create something that will be > popular with your own crowd (or, most importantly, yourself). > > And as far as electronic music artists "ripping off" other people, > everything has been done before. Some people think DJ Shadow's > "Endtroducing" is just pure plagiarism, while those who are a little more > open-minded may consider it art. > > Cheers, > > -m > > > -----Original Message----- > From: robin pinning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:53 AM > To: Giles Dickerson > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > >> Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a > >single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. > >We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks > >it might be the artist or a singer. > > yeah fair point, that had occured to me when i compiled me last response, > and actually the above is reinforced by the fact the FBS uses a fat guy in > all the marketing shots (someone has nowt to do with the music...actually > some might argue FBS has little to do with the music as all he does is rip > off (sample) other peoples stuff...but that's a whole other argument and > is perhaps a little below the belt :) ) > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
> > And as far as electronic music artists "ripping off" other people, > everything has been done before. Some people think DJ Shadow's > "Endtroducing" is just pure plagiarism, while those who are a little more > open-minded may consider it art. yeah giles' view (as a remix) i think is the best one to take on this matter i did say the view that is was ripping off was below the belt :) robin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
I think historically there's been a hierarchy of musical popularity, and it all has to do with how "human" the music is as far as mass appeal. I would put things like experimental, industrial and techno at one end of the spectrum, and pop music at the other. On the one end you've got something that is, by design, more mechanical and detached... marked by what the vast majority of the population would consider "noise," while pop music oozes this saccharine dribble, so sycophantic to the masses that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. House is somewhere in-between. Having said that, I must confess that I'm a huge house fan. I like a lot of different types of music though, and there are things that I like about every type of music that I listen to that draw me to that type of music (Tracey Thorn's voice is enough to make me melt, sight-unseen for instance). I mean, we all know what it takes to write a song that will be popular with the public at large... it takes true genius to create something that will be popular with your own crowd (or, most importantly, yourself). And as far as electronic music artists "ripping off" other people, everything has been done before. Some people think DJ Shadow's "Endtroducing" is just pure plagiarism, while those who are a little more open-minded may consider it art. Cheers, -m -Original Message- From: robin pinning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:53 AM To: Giles Dickerson Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses >> Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a >single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. >We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks >it might be the artist or a singer. yeah fair point, that had occured to me when i compiled me last response, and actually the above is reinforced by the fact the FBS uses a fat guy in all the marketing shots (someone has nowt to do with the music...actually some might argue FBS has little to do with the music as all he does is rip off (sample) other peoples stuff...but that's a whole other argument and is perhaps a little below the belt :) ) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
I realized something fairly profound halfwat through this year and applied the thinking to my own viewpoint of loop sampling. I don't mean getting a sound, when I say sampling I mean taking a chunk and looping and editing. I decided that I would think of music (whether house hip hop or whatever) that samples loops as a "Remix". I applied this thinking to KDJ all the way through Jeru and I'm happy with thet. That way the artist doesn't get credit for the invention but is seen as re-applying. I kind of like this viewpoint because it answers a lot of the tricky issues around sampled music. So...to apply that for example, I see most of Sneaks tracks as "Disco remixes", and in an ideal world, he'd title his songs as the original + "remix". I'ma huge Sneak fan, but he's a better "remixer" than a composer. Whereas Larry Heard especialy lately, composes. Someone like Kenny Dixon does both. Just a rant but an interestiung approach I thought anyways. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 > -- > From: robin pinning > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 1:52 PM > To: Giles Dickerson > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > >> Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a > >single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. > >We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks > >it might be the artist or a singer. > > yeah fair point, that had occured to me when i compiled me last response, > and actually the above is reinforced by the fact the FBS uses a fat guy in > all the marketing shots (someone has nowt to do with the music...actually > some might argue FBS has little to do with the music as all he does is rip > off (sample) other peoples stuff...but that's a whole other argument and > is perhaps a little below the belt :) ) > > > "Smack My Bitch Up". Ugggh. > > euwww yeah prodigy too > > > > robin... > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
>> Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a >single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. >We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks >it might be the artist or a singer. yeah fair point, that had occured to me when i compiled me last response, and actually the above is reinforced by the fact the FBS uses a fat guy in all the marketing shots (someone has nowt to do with the music...actually some might argue FBS has little to do with the music as all he does is rip off (sample) other peoples stuff...but that's a whole other argument and is perhaps a little below the belt :) ) > "Smack My Bitch Up". Ugggh. euwww yeah prodigy too robin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
Benjamin Barber - "Jihad vs McWorld" Read it. You'll be ever so glad you did. And while you're at it, (re)read your Smith and Marx. Maybe a little Weber for good measure. Vince Woolums AOL IM: vincewoolums http://bnsrecords.gemm.com http://www.recordcollectorinc.com > Subject: Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on > >a large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure > >occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a > >video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are > >easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing > >thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. > > i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and > the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there > too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. > > does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch > the minds on? i don't really have an answer. > > i also suspect that the marketing problem we are talking about here is a > lot more acute in the states. vocal-less (and, as it happens, soul-less) > records regularly make the top ten over here now. perhaps this suggests > the problem also lies with radio stations too. bbc radio one (the most > listened to station by young people over here) plays a huge range of music > and doesn't stick to one particular type as a lot of stations over there > do. > > > > robin.. > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
:"Smack My Bitch Up". Ugggh. "smack my bitch up; like a pimp" yay - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
Yes and No. The Chemical brothers and Fatboy Slim tend to choose a single or a couple very catchy vocal edits and repeat them over and over. We know they're samples but I think the general audience probably thinks it might be the artist or a singer. "Smack My Bitch Up". Ugggh. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 > -- > From: robin pinning > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2002 1:45 PM > To: Giles Dickerson > Cc: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses > > > > I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on > >a large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure > >occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a > >video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are > >easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing > >thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. > > i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and > the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there > too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. > > does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch > the minds on? i don't really have an answer. > > i also suspect that the marketing problem we are talking about here is a > lot more acute in the states. vocal-less (and, as it happens, soul-less) > records regularly make the top ten over here now. perhaps this suggests > the problem also lies with radio stations too. bbc radio one (the most > listened to station by young people over here) plays a huge range of music > and doesn't stick to one particular type as a lot of stations over there > do. > > > > robin.. > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Marketinbg techno + house to the masses
> I think a huge part of why the attempts to marklet house and techno on >a large scale have failed is because there is no one singing (sure >occasionally there is) but there's no one there dancing singing to make a >video of, talking to the audience. Popular music has melodies that are >easily remembered and have lyrics than be sung along to. I'm guessing >thet's the huge appeal the house and techno are often missing. i used to think that too but people like norman cook (fat boy slim) and the chemical brothers are hugely popular over here (UK) and over there too and a lot of their records don't have vocals as such on them. does this mean that people have 'got over' the need for a vocal to latch the minds on? i don't really have an answer. i also suspect that the marketing problem we are talking about here is a lot more acute in the states. vocal-less (and, as it happens, soul-less) records regularly make the top ten over here now. perhaps this suggests the problem also lies with radio stations too. bbc radio one (the most listened to station by young people over here) plays a huge range of music and doesn't stick to one particular type as a lot of stations over there do. robin.. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
