Re: [313] tone shifting
On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Kieran wrote: > Has anyone ever produced any double vinyls of the same track with a1 being a > particular track and c1 being the same track, but with the inverted phase > wave? When both a1 and c1 are perfectly mixed, the inverted and normal waves > should totally cancel each other out, and there should be (in theory) complete > silence. Yet, as soon as they are pitch shifted/slightly out of phase, then > the tune(s) should jump in. > You could try it, but I doubt that you could keep it near enough in sync to really cancel, and most of the time it would sound flanged, similar to how rocking regular doubles sound. The flanging of regular doubles comes from frequency dependent phase cancellation. You can phase cancel pure sine waves by offsetting one signal exactly one cycle. But a complex signal -- like a Jeff Mills track -- is continuously changing, and slight offsets mean some frequencies cancel, and some frequencies reinforce, so you get a comb filter effect. What's REALLY interesting to a record geek like me is taking two different records that are similar enough to phase cancel. Chic's 'GoodTimes' and Sugarhill Gang's 'Rapper's Delight' are like this -- RD recreated the Good Times loop so precisely that when you line it up it flanges with the original.
Re: [313] tone shifting
Kieran wrote:_ > Has anyone ever produced any double vinyls of the same track with a1 being a particular track and c1 being the same track, but with the inverted phase wave? When both a1 and c1 are perfectly mixed, the inverted and normal waves should totally cancel each other out, and there should be (in theory) complete silence. Yet, as soon as they are pitch shifted/slightly out of phase, then the tune(s) should jump in. Just wondering, it would be an interesting experiment. ___ Unfortunately this only works under extremely controlled situations ie. perfectly noiseless mixing console with no pre-amp, truely matched needles, noiseless, distortionless amp with no pre or post digital amplification. More on the topic of toneshifting (actually a physics term coined long before darw_n). Toneshifting in the darw_nian sense, could be explained or perpetuated in two ways: 1. Take sense enhancing drugs This will enhance your senses such that any reverberations from the room you are in, along with the mindless chatter of hundreds of people will construct interesting new wave forms for your ears. 2. Be in a small group of people in a large auditory space, and stand at the extremities of the soundspace. Up close to the system you will find your ears drums lock up and sound transmits through you (you are in fact standing before waveforms of up to 3000 Hz can form, therefore you only hear a small portion of them (resonant form) and then any reverberation of that sound. Away from the system you will hear more tones as waveforms cycle fully before hitting you, but they also reverberate of other walls and such, enhancing your experience with all sorts of phantom sounds (ie. music reverberating off of pipes and stages etc.) I spent a long time thinking about the "mental projection" aspect of darw_n's theory, but this is nothing new. We have been mentally projecting on music since we were born. Point in case John Coltrane's "Blue Train": I have a friend who used to listen to this album in the morning when he woke up, and he said it was the best way to wake up, it refreshed and invigored him, while I listened to this album fully through a break-up, and it makes me sad to hear it all the time. As for Richie playing emotionless music, this isn't true at all, he's simply not playing soulful music ergo your friends comment 'Richie has no soul'. Listen to DEFX909 again, there are tonnes of get up and party tracks on there as well as a fair amount of moody music. - Original Message - From: "Kieran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kent williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "313 list" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [313] tone shifting > On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote: > > ] In the context of DJ-ing, tone-shifting is what happens when you mix > ] two records and new music emerges from the the interference between > ] the two tracks. It's a real phenomenon -- if you combine two signals > ] they can interfere with each other -- technically 'phase cancellation' > ] such that new tones become audible. > > This question is a little diverged from this topic, but when talking about > phase varience and "interference", I have the following question: > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [313] tone shifting
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote: ] In the context of DJ-ing, tone-shifting is what happens when you mix ] two records and new music emerges from the the interference between ] the two tracks. It's a real phenomenon -- if you combine two signals ] they can interfere with each other -- technically 'phase cancellation' ] such that new tones become audible. This question is a little diverged from this topic, but when talking about phase varience and "interference", I have the following question: Has anyone ever produced any double vinyls of the same track with a1 being a particular track and c1 being the same track, but with the inverted phase wave? When both a1 and c1 are perfectly mixed, the inverted and normal waves should totally cancel each other out, and there should be (in theory) complete silence. Yet, as soon as they are pitch shifted/slightly out of phase, then the tune(s) should jump in. Just wondering, it would be an interesting experiment. Kieran.
Re: [313] Tone shifting
> I used to work at a Kinko's and I found that > environment was a rich source > of metal on metal beats. Folding machines, multiple > large Xerox machines > churning out copies wich big "ka-chung" sounds, the > hum of computers, staple > machines, the high pitch "zip" sound of color > copiers > it was the only redeeming character of that place. > I made several poor quality tapes of the sounds for > future use. This is good... I like these robotic machine noise samples... Has anyone got any sound from, eg, hydraulic or pneumatic machines/vehicles(cranes/diggers etc), robots (car factory or other automated production line sounds)... I want some tapes... I'm not weird am I? LOL Nick (Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Tone shifting
Re: It also occurs while on the train, in a room full of computers, or wherever there is a repetitive sound. Thats why I like riding trainsthere so much music to be heard!! Anyway, amongst others, there was one that said "you know you're a raver/techno freak when you find yourself nodding your head to th tribal sounds of a washing machine". I used to work at a Kinko's and I found that environment was a rich source of metal on metal beats. Folding machines, multiple large Xerox machines churning out copies wich big "ka-chung" sounds, the hum of computers, staple machines, the high pitch "zip" sound of color copiers it was the only redeeming character of that place. I made several poor quality tapes of the sounds for future use. Fred _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Tone shifting
My mum reckons that when I play the Sonic EP in my bedroom it sounds like a foundry downstairs:) NO kidding!!! l8r, Nick (Dj Pacific:) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 04/10/00 10:43:27 GMT Daylight > Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > writes: > > > I can't rememer with who it was that originally > stated that tone shifting is > > a mechanism of the brain that *fills* in the gaps > in highly repetitive > > music, but I agree with him and have to add that > this fenomenon doesn't > > occur only while listening to music, whether it > be minimal techno or tribal > > beats. It also occurs while on the train, in a > room full of computers, or > > wherever there is a repetitive sound. Thats why I > like riding > > trainsthere so much music to be heard!! > > I once saw this list called "you know your a raver > when..." and it then > listed 101 reasons you could tell your a raver. > Well, some people might be > offended to be called ravers, I for one dont > generally call myself one, but > for some of these reasons you could easily replace > raver with "techno freak" > or something along those lines. Anyway, amongst > others, there was one that > said "you know you're a raver/techno freak when you > find yourself nodding > your head to the tribal sounds of a washing > machine". Maybe this isn't > toneshifting as discussed on the list, but its > definately a case of a bored > mind projecting music onto something which isn't > necessarily musical, and I > find it to be quite true. Sort of like working in > factory's, many times have > I considered taking my MD recorder to work with me > to try and capture the > seemingly musical hum and machine noise that is the > background noise of a > busy factory. > > Aaron > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Tone shifting
ever tried chilling to a coffee percolator? i used to spend my mornings up at biostation, relaxing to the sweet sounds of our large coffee percolator. -m On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, fab137 wrote: > I can't rememer with who it was that originally stated that tone shifting is > a mechanism of the brain that *fills* in the gaps in highly repetitive > music, but I agree with him and have to add that this fenomenon doesn't > occur only while listening to music, whether it be minimal techno or tribal > beats. It also occurs while on the train, in a room full of computers, or > wherever there is a repetitive sound. Thats why I like riding > trainsthere so much music to be heard!! > > later, > fab > > || Web Developer || [EMAIL PROTECTED] || > || www.deepend.it || > > "If we never looked at things and thought what they might be, we'd still be > in the tall grass with the apes." > > > Deepend Roma s.r.l. > Via C.A. Racchia, 4 - 00195 Roma - ITALY > T +39 06 37 51 23 58 F +39 06 37 51 23 26 > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [313] Tone shifting
In a message dated 04/10/00 10:43:27 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I can't rememer with who it was that originally stated that tone shifting is > a mechanism of the brain that *fills* in the gaps in highly repetitive > music, but I agree with him and have to add that this fenomenon doesn't > occur only while listening to music, whether it be minimal techno or tribal > beats. It also occurs while on the train, in a room full of computers, or > wherever there is a repetitive sound. Thats why I like riding > trainsthere so much music to be heard!! I once saw this list called "you know your a raver when..." and it then listed 101 reasons you could tell your a raver. Well, some people might be offended to be called ravers, I for one dont generally call myself one, but for some of these reasons you could easily replace raver with "techno freak" or something along those lines. Anyway, amongst others, there was one that said "you know you're a raver/techno freak when you find yourself nodding your head to the tribal sounds of a washing machine". Maybe this isn't toneshifting as discussed on the list, but its definately a case of a bored mind projecting music onto something which isn't necessarily musical, and I find it to be quite true. Sort of like working in factory's, many times have I considered taking my MD recorder to work with me to try and capture the seemingly musical hum and machine noise that is the background noise of a busy factory. Aaron
Re: [313] Tone shifting
In a message dated 10/4/00 4:43:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >I can't rememer with who it was that originally stated that tone shifting >is > >a mechanism of the brain that *fills* in the gaps in highly repetitive > >music, but I agree with him and have to add that this fenomenon doesn't > >occur only while listening to music, whether it be minimal techno or tribal > >beats. It also occurs while on the train, in a room full of computers, >or > >wherever there is a repetitive sound. Thats why I like riding > >trainsthere so much music to be heard!! yeah or listening to techno while sitting at the front of the train watching the lights in the tunnel go by or even the city if it is elevated...techno and motion...what a combo! G l y p h
RE: [313] tone-shifting while tired
Taking the toneshifting phenonmenon to its logical extreme, if you sent enough emails to Johanna Thompson would they eventually begin to generate autorepsonses? Sorry. I had to do it. Just had to. I know it's not really a funny situation. Tristan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > toneshifting... > > It's very cool stuff...definitely bringing out a > unique feature of our > mind, > but you can't really shake your ass to it like you > can with the Surgeon =] > > t o double d > set.go.recordings > > ++ > > this discussion is really beginning to tire me, but > the following just > occurred to me: > > when you reach a certain amount of feet under water, > only a small portion > of the spectrum of light penetrates. effectively you > can only physically > see black and white, because the other colors are > not present. > nevertheless, you perceive color because your brain > inserts color where > there is none in order to bring your environment > more in line with what it > thinks it should be... > > it seems plausible that toneshifting is merely the > audio equivalent of > this process. in a stark environment (in this case, > with very few sounds, > rather than few colors) the brain attempts to insert > melody because that is > what it thinks should be there. perhaps an effort to > maintain balance or > status quo, familiarity, normalcy, etc. > > blah, blah... > h > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
