Re: 4D v15 and High Sierra

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We run it without any issues. 

Paul 

> On 9 May 2020, at 19:51, Eric Asadoorian via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Running v15.6 on 10.12.6 without any issues.  I can't seem to locate 
> certification docs.
> 
> Simple question:  Can v15 run under High Sierra or are there compatibility 
> issues?
> 
> Thank you,.
> Eric Asadoorian
> 
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Re: Opinion

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We have a big legacy system that started its life in 1990, so on the French 
version 4. It has been migrated through versions like 6.5, 6.8, 2003, 2004, 
v11, v12, v15 and now v17. We made the jump from v12 to v15. The biggest issues 
were getting the unique ids in place and removing 4D chart. 

We’re now replacing 4D Write with Write Pro. That’s a big job and 4D didn’t 
make it easy. 

Paul 


> On 24 Apr 2020, at 23:16, Kenneth Geiger via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I’m solicitating your opinions.
> 
> I’ve picked-up a new 4D client. They have an existing 4D system (v12 running 
> on Win7) that has been stagnant for quite e few years. I believe it was 
> originally written under 2004 or maybe even 6.8.5. They’re looking to replace 
> their computers with Win10 machines and and upgrade 4D. I’m a Mac guy and I 
> do my Win development in a VMWare environment. I’ve got several 
> configurations available. I’ve got a Win7 environment that has a 4D v14 
> installation and a Win10 environment with 4D v15, v16, and v17 installations. 
> My thought is to skip v14 and open the v12 system under v15, take care of 
> what needs to be updated, and then move it to v17. Your thoughts would be 
> most appreciated.
> 
> Stay safe and healthy,
> 
> Ken Geiger
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Re: v18 and 4D Write Classic - does it work ?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Peter,

Unless we’re seriously out of touch, v17r4 is the last version that supports 
32bits and thus 4D Write classic. Depending on what you’ve done with it, a 
major rewrite (pun intended) is required. The code doesn’t translate and any 
data you have needs to be converted. 4D hasn’t done much to help the migration 
process. It’s pretty much roll your own. 

V17r4 is nice because you can have Write and Write Pro working side by side. 

We’re in the process of doing this ourselves. 

Good luck. 

Paul 

> On 5 Feb 2020, at 15:37, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I’m going to be making the leap from v15 to v18. I think the biggest 
> transition will be moving to 4D Write Pro as I have quite a lot of legacy 4D 
> Write code to deal with.
> 
> In the meantime, does anybody have experience of migrating big 4D Write 
> codebases ? What are the major gotchas ?
> 
> Will legacy 4D Write work in v18 in the meantime or do we need to migrate to 
> 4D Write Pro to even run it ? (When I try it it invokes license privilege 
> errors everywhere).
> 
> Many thanks for any tips
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: Compiling for Windows and Mac

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks!

Paul 

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 06:17, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> that's basically right,
> 
> v11 was the last version that supported i386 and ppc.
> the label back then was "Compile for PPC and Intel processors (Mac Intel and 
> Windows)"
> 
> http://library.4d-japan.com/REFERENCE/v11/4D_v11_Design_Ref.pdf
> 
> ---
> 
> stating with v12, we have the option to "also compile for 64-bit"
> for a while we could compile for 64-bit in addition to 32-bit (no option to 
> drop 32-bit, since Windows clients and Mac are 32-bit)
> at the time, 64-bit implicitly meant Server, Windows.
> 
> starting with v15 we have 64-bit version for Mac.
> this time the compiler was updated to generate code that could work for 
> 64-bit on both platforms,
> so there was no need to mention the platform for compilation.
> 
> and then, finally with 17R5 we no longer have 32-bit support.
> 
>> 2019/10/18 12:44、Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>> I can no longer find the option to compile for both platforms. Is this no 
>> longer necessary or am I missing something. Is it the same object code 
>> regardless of OS, since they’re both Intel processors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Compiling for Windows and Mac

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We have been running a v15 server on Mac OSX clients. We now plan on moving to 
v17 and running on Windows server with Mac clients. 

I haven’t run a 4D database on a Windows server for about 10 years. I can no 
longer find the option to compile for both platforms. Is this no longer 
necessary or am I missing something. Is it the same object code regardless of 
OS, since they’re both Intel processors?

Thanks for your enlightenment. 

Paul 
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Re: HTTP AUTHENTICATE - how to know if the authentification worked

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi John,

Thanks for your input. I wouldn’t know where to begin creating the 
authentication digest myself. Can you point me somewhere?

Cheers,

Paul



> Le 27 sept. 2019 à 20:27, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Using a HTTP tracing tool where you could see all of the request/response 
> values with headers might provide useful clues. My other idea would be to 
> drop HTTP AUTHENTICATE and just build the authentication digest headers 
> yourself.
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Paul Lovejoy  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for your feedback. I’m passing “2” in the extra parameter. The 
>> following HTTP get() is returning an error -9935, badly formed XML. The HTTP 
>> get is supposed to be retrieving XML, actually. So the error is not totally 
>> off base. But I would prefer to know that authentification failed, not the 
>> HTTP get()
> 
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Re: HTTP AUTHENTICATE - how to know if the authentification worked

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi John,

Thanks for your feedback. I’m passing “2” in the extra parameter. The following 
HTTP get() is returning an error -9935, badly formed XML. The HTTP get is 
supposed to be retrieving XML, actually. So the error is not totally off base. 
But I would prefer to know that authentification failed, not the HTTP get()

Paul

> Le 27 sept. 2019 à 18:22, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> The documentation says:
> 
>> If you omit the authMethod parameter (or pass 0), you let the program choose 
>> the appropriate method to use. In this case, 4D sends an additional request 
>> in order to negotiate the authentication method.
> 
> Are you omitting the authMethod parameter? If so, I suspect the error is 
> happening in the "additional request". If you provide that, then HTTP Get 
> should return the right HTTP error code. Hopefully you know ahead of time 
> what method to use and this is better because you omit the extra request and 
> should get any error code directly from the site.
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m using HTTP AUTHENTICATE to authenticate connections to a web server. The 
>> call to authenticate is immediately followed by a HTTP get(). The HTTP get 
>> occasionally fails and I’ve been able to trace this to a failed HTTP 
>> AUTHENTICATE, which appears to be an error from the website. However, it 
>> appears there’s no way to know the authentification succeeded or failed. 
>> There is no return code and OK doesn’t get set either. So I get various 
>> errors such as -9935 from the subsequent call to HTTP get(), which isn’t 
>> very helpful.
> 
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HTTP AUTHENTICATE - how to know if the authentification worked

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

I’m using HTTP AUTHENTICATE to authenticate connections to a web server. The 
call to authenticate is immediately followed by a HTTP get(). The HTTP get 
occasionally fails and I’ve been able to trace this to a failed HTTP 
AUTHENTICATE, which appears to be an error from the website. However, it 
appears there’s no way to know the authentification succeeded or failed. There 
is no return code and OK doesn’t get set either. So I get various errors such 
as -9935 from the subsequent call to HTTP get(), which isn’t very helpful.

Has anyone found an elegant workaround to find out if HTTP AUTHENTICATE() 
actually worked they can share?


Thanks in advance,


Paul

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Re: 4D authentication system that allow for stronger security.

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

You’d have to roll your own. 

Paul 

> On 5 Sep 2019, at 16:22, Eric Naujock via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a replacement login system for 4D that offers stronger 
> authentication security than the current system. Since the current system 
> does not enforce password changes, or password complexity it is a pretty poor 
> system in the current age. While the encryption is crypt is is still brute 
> force attackable as well. There are no failed login lockouts. Nor is three 
> the ability to have two factor authentication? Or is this something beyond 
> what anyone out there is using. 
> 
> ---
> 
> MacCafe
> 7860 Central Ave.
> Toledo, OH 43617
> Phone: (419) 885-1240 X 241
> Fax: (419) 517-2063
> Eric Naujock  -  ACSA 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 Apple - ACTC 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 
> 10.9, 10.10, -ACSP 10.11, 10.12, 10.13
> http://www.mac-cafe.com
> email: e r...@mac-cafe.com 
> 
> AOL IM: erlic
> 
> 
> 
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Listbox - moving columns - is it possible?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

I have a listbox with 21 columns and I have to change the order in which the 
columns are displayed. I have a vague recollection that this is possible but I 
can’t find any way to do so. I was thinking it would be possible to click on a 
column, hold down the mouse button and slide it where I want it, like just 
about any other application would allow. It doesn’t seem to happen for 
listboxes. I’m using v15.


Does anyone know if it’s possible?


Cheers,


Paul
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Re: Miyako Excel Component

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

I have a version that still works in v15. Haven’t tried with newer versions. 

Paul 

> On 24 May 2019, at 19:24, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I have a one-off need to create 2 very small (about 9 rows each, 2 columns) 
> spreadsheets from 4D in native Excel format.
> 
> Is Miyako’s component still available anywhere ? The sources.4d.com site 
> seems to have gone away. (Or maybe I’m just not accessing it correctly…is it 
> FTP ?)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: 4D V15 crash

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Maybe it’s part of the 4D license validation routine trying to phone home...

> Le 4 mai 2019 à 17:58, Robert McKeever via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> And, the reboot fixed whatever was bothering it. Runs fine now.
> 
>> On May 4, 2019, at 8:07 AM, Robert McKeever via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> My son is a software engineer at Apple. I passed him the crash log last 
>> night. He could not find anything obvious. He mentioned something about 
>> converting a URL format.
>> 
>> Then I copied the entire setup to my MacBook Air. First time to open, it 
>> crashed. I then rebooted the MacBook. The app started up just fine. So, I 
>> rebooted the client machine which loses my Teamviewer connection. I’ll get 
>> it setup later today and see what happens.
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2019, at 9:53 PM, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Look at the crash log (should be in ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports). It 
>>> often gives helpful clues about what is causing the crash.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
>>> 
>>> 
 On May 3, 2019, at 8:11 PM, Robert McKeever via 4D_Tech 
 <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
 
 My client (4 time zones away), had been running the single user compiled 
 and merged app under windows. Then he purchased a new Mac. It is running 
 10.14.3, I’m running 10.14.4. I have moved the appropriate mac app files 
 to his machine, along with the datafile and index file from his PC.
 
 4D crashes on startup.
 
 Then I had him add a printer. Tried again. No  luck.
>>> 
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>> 
>> _
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>> McKeever's Software Wizardry
>> Port Coquitlam, B.C.
>> bobmckee...@mac.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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HTTP Get on 4D Server v15 - is it synchronous?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We’re working on incorporating the retrieval of fairly voluminous xml from our 
website in an interactive form in 4D. Since we have workstations spread around 
about 50 locations accessing 4D Server over a VPN and the web server is running 
in the same subnet as 4D Server, it seems logical to have the methods with HTTP 
Get execute on 4D Server. I’m just worried about degradation of performance on 
4D Server, as some of the HTTP Gets can take between 1 and 5 seconds.

Does anyone know if 4D Server would execute these requests asynchronously or 
synchronously? Would the cooperative thread be stuck while waiting for the 
response?

Thanks for your thoughts (and prayers :D)


Paul
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Re: How to get a list of all user windows?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

It probably won’t help you... but I have a sort of toolbox through which the 
launching of all processes and the opening and closing of their respective 
windows go. I also use it for sending and receiving messages between processes. 

Paul 

> On 8 Nov 2018, at 21:16, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> You could use the Window process function find the process number. Then use 
> the "origin" parameter of PROCESS PROPERTIES to determine which processes 
> belong to the design process.
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
> 
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The WINDOW LIST function creates a list of ALL open windows, including
>> method windows. Is there any way to get a list of only the user windows?
>> (IE, ones that are open in the runtime environment).
> 
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Re: v16R6 Crashing on Compile

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Many years ago... had to use 4D Insider and create a new structure and move 
everything. No longer an option. Copy/paste?


Paul



> On 25 Oct 2018, at 23:39, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm remembering something about really long statements inside a Begin SQL or 
> something like that.  It's been fixed but I don't remember when.  It was only 
> if dot notation was either enabled or disabled.
> 
> So maybe something like that?
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2018, at 5:18 PM, Jim Hays via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Our app is crashing constantly when we try to compile.
>> Windows 10 desktops, Windows Server 2008 R2.
>> Structure is around 75 MB.  We have been deploying this app for nearly 20
>> years.
>> 
>> For a while, we could Repair and Compact and then compile, but that isn't
>> working anymore.
>> We have a support case open with 4D, but no answers yet.
> 
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Re: Shared Object - NOT!

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

How could it be shared between processes with a name starting with $?



Paul 

> On 20 Oct 2018, at 15:50, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Well I guess I must be doing something wrong :)
> Using v17r3:
> 
> In the Startup method I create a new Shared Object:
> 
> *C_OBJECT*($objTriggerState)  // 20/10/18
> 
> $objTriggerState:=*New shared object*()
> 
> 
> Subsequently I want to add something to that object.
> 
> 
> $State:="on"
> 
> *Use* ($objTriggerState)
> 
> processnumber:=*String*(*Current process*)
> 
> $objTriggerState.processnumber:=$State
> 
> *End use*
> 
> But I get an error because $objTriggerState is undefined.
> 
> According to the docs:
> 
> "*Shared objects* and *shared collections* are specific objects and
> collections *whose contents are shared between processes*."
> 
> So why is the object undefined?
> 
> It works OK if the object is an interprocess variable, but that's a bit
> pointless isn't it?
> 
> Pat
> 
> -- 
> *
> CatBase - Top Dog in Data Publishing
> tel: +44 (0) 207 118 7889
> w: http://www.catbase.com
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High Sierra number format problems

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We’re using v15 on High Sierra for a few of our clients. We’ve noticed an issue 
on some Macs that have been upgraded to High Sierra. Those machines have a 
number format displayed in 4D which is not what we’re seeing in the System 
Preferences. For example, the system prefs have “,” as the thousand separator 
and “.” as the decimal separator but in 4D we’re getting “.” as the thousand 
separator and “,” as the decimal separator.

So the system prefs would show 1,250.45 but 4D is showing 1.250,45. We have a 
system that detects the system preferences and sets the number format so it 
displays correctly. What is weird is that it’s as if the System Preferences 
number format pane is not actually setting the Mac OS X internal number format 
correctly. We’ve tried resetting it, resetting the PRAM etc. Nothing seems to 
work. This is happening on 2 machines out of 10 that have High Sierra. The 
others work fine.

Has anyone seen this?


Cheers,


Paul


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Re: 4D User Blank

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We have that often. However, we once had 20 plus users who were showing as 
Designer!!!

Paul 

> On 18 Sep 2018, at 23:16, Tom Dillon via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> On two 4D servers running on a Mac Mini the 4D User is occasionally blank. 
> Most of the time they're either all there or mostly not.  The Machine name, 
> Session name, etc. columns are always populated, just not the 4D User.
> 
> Any ideas on what might cause this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
>   --
>   Tom Dillon  375 S Main St #405
>   DataCraft   Moab, UT 84532
>   tomdil...@datacraft-inc.com   720/209-6502
>   --
> Those who only see in black and white lose their way when they
> find themselves in gray areas. --- Sunastar
>   --
> 
> 
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Re: UUID query ignores characters 33 to n.... didn't know that!

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

When I first saw 4D’s requirement for unique indexes I was tempted to replace 
other ids in our databases with UUIDs in order to save space ... I quickly gave 
up on that idea. I just let 4D manage UUIDs to have unique IDs for backup and 
journalizing functions and I don’t assume anything regarding those fields and 
indexes. 

Paul 

> On 3 Sep 2018, at 21:07, Jim Labos - infobase via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes thanks, that is what I became aware of at that point. Previously UUID's
> nature was not particularly interesting to me and so I thought of it as
> Alpha numeric string. For comparison's sake a text will work but not as I
> previously falsely assumed.
> 
> This old dog can still learn!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jim Labos - infobase
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Jim Labos - infobase
> --
> Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
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Re: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

In our case, users have created about 1,500 template documents in 7 languages. 
I’d be lynched if I didn’t provide a path to convert them. 

Paul 

> On 29 Aug 2018, at 21:56, Richard Wright via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> That’s what I was afraid of. Does it not occur to anyone at 4D that people 
> have existing code to manipulate 4D Write documents and that that code has to 
> be rewritten to work with 4D Write Pro? The lack of a command cross reference 
> makes the process unnecessarily difficult and maybe you end up 90% through 
> the process only to find out that a certain functionality has not been 
> retained in “Pro". How hard could it be to write such a thing? After all, 
> when 4D Write Pro was being written, surely the starting point would have 
> been to retain all existing features and then give us all the great new 
> things. So you create a list of existing commands and then you check them off 
> as those functions are rewritten in “Pro”. How else could you know that you 
> haven’t missed something? Reading a bunch of blogs is not all the same thing 
> as an accurate cross reference.
> 
> 
> Richard Wright
> DataDomain
> rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:57:19 +
>> From: Vance Villanueva 
>> 
>> Hi Richard,
>> 
>> 4D Write Pro is a newly developed architecture.  There are no cross 
>> references of 4D Write Pro commands from 4D Write.  We have resources to 
>> convert 4D Write docs to 4D Write Pro.  Also, we have resources of 4D Write 
>> Pro in doc.4d.com, blog.4d.com, and kb.4d.com for the transition from 4D 
>> Write.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Vance Villanueva
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Richard 
>> Wright via 4D_Tech
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:45 AM
>> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
>> Cc: Richard Wright
>> Subject: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro
>> 
>> Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D 
>> Write Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves?
>> 
>> I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
>> created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node 
>> did this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
>> commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
>> can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D 
>> Write but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. 
>> With Mac Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to 
>> get serious pretty soon.
>> 
>> 
>> Richard Wright
>> DataDomain
>> rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We’ve been looking at converting a pretty complex system with form letters, 
paragraphs, lots of imbedded fields, hot links and html expressions. It looks 
like a huge job just trying to convert the old docs. We think the rewrite will 
take more effort than the original development. 

Paul 

> On 29 Aug 2018, at 21:12, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Richard Wright wrote:
>> 
>> You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?
> 
> Nope, it is true. For this version. I have 2 clients that are big 4D Write 
> users (one with a 90 user license) and use 4D Write to create Word documents. 
> 
> I've asked about this at every 4D Summit where they demoed 4D Write Pro. At 
> the first showing several years ago the answer was “we will support all the 
> current 4D Write Plugin features”. Then at a later 4D Summits it was said, it 
> is not there now but it is coming. At the last 4D Summit the answer was “we 
> don’t think any/many developers use it”. Even though I’m the one saying to 
> them “I use it a lot for 2 clients!”
> 
> So maybe you can flex some OEM muscle and get this put on the “must have” 
> feature list for the next version. I hope you can because I’ve had zero luck, 
> and I was speaking directly to the 4D Write Pro lead engineer.
> 
> Tim
> 
> *
> Tim Nevels
> Innovative Solutions
> 785-749-3444
> timnev...@mac.com
> *
> 
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Mojave and v15 / v16

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

Has anyone been able to do any testing with the Mojave beta and v15/v16 in 32 
bit mode?

I’d appreciate any feedback.


Thanks,


Paul
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Re: Orphaned blobs and SSD drives

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Bernd,

We’ve had this problem with 2 tables in a large DB for years... since 2011. We 
don’t have anything stored outside the data file. We’ve never been able to 
identify any data loss. 

I’ve posted here a few times in the past about this. No solutions so far. 

Paul Lovejoy

> On 30 Jul 2018, at 16:52, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Keisuke Miyako:
> 
>> to be clear,
>> 
>> "BLOB" in this context means object, text, picture or BLOB field (anything 
>> that can be saved outside the record).
> 
> Ah, OK.
> 
>> the table doesn't have any of those 4 types?
> 
> It does have textfields but those are all set to be stored in the record 
> (just checked).
> Nevertheless MSC tells me that there are orphaned blobs in that table.
> I have no idea where they come from.
> 
> After the error Message there is a "(5;55)" displayed. Do you know what those 
> mean? (It´s not the tablenumber).
> 
> As I said, I can repair the datafile to get rid of the orphans but after some 
> time they are there again.
> 
> Greetings from Germany,
> Bernd Fröhlich
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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

It’s a good way to query the history too. 

Paul 

> On 19 Jul 2018, at 10:16, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I use the nabble web interface to read and post.
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
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Re: just a curiosity - pre emptive threads

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Is it just me, or does anyone else expect that a database engine would handle 
preemptive threads, transactions and concurrence transparently?

Why would I need to know about cooperative versus preemptive threads in the 
best of worlds?

Paul 

> On 12 Jul 2018, at 15:19, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 1:57 PM Jeffrey Kain via naine w4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Does it make sense for most triggers? Usually you want to know for sure
>> that code in a trigger has completed before doing anything else in the
>> table/process, which is kind of the opposite of a preemptive thread.
>> 
>> 
> Jeff,
> 
> I believe it should provide some speed improvement (to make triggers
> preemptive.) IF they are not, triggers are executed sequentially at server,
> one trigger executed after another. If they are preemptive, each trigger
> can get their own preemptive thread, with several triggers executed (on
> server) in parallel. However, disk speed as main bottleneck will not be
> affected by this, so you can see significant or zero improvement.
> 
> That does not mess with order execution, triggers are started after client
> calls SAVE RECORD and only after trigger finishes - does not matter if in
> preemptive or cooperative thread - execution on client moves to next line.
> 
> 
>> I suppose for some triggers it would be suitable.
>> 
>> 
> As I understand, you have to make all triggers preemptive to work.
> 
> --
> 
> Peter Bozek
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Re: 16.3 HF2 test of the new network layer

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for sharing!

Paul

> On 1 May 2018, at 16:43, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Over the weekend, we ran our production 4D Server using the new network 
> layer. We ran from midnight Saturday until midnight Monday, and we peaked at 
> about 145 users and 1200 processes.
> 
> I'm very happy to say we had no issues at all! There wasn't a single helpdesk 
> ticket filed against 4D for the entire weekend, and performance was 
> excellent. It was great to see that the CPU usage of the main core on the 
> server was in line with all the rest of the cores - it wasn't pegged 
> constantly at 80% - 90%. This should really improve the number of requests 
> per second that the server can process, and hopefully improve execution time 
> of our triggers as well.
> 
> We are going to run a full test in production tomorrow (600+ users, 
> 3500/4000+ processes) -- if it's successful we will switch all our remaining 
> systems over to the new network layer. I'll keep you posted!
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Details:
> 
> Server:
>  4D Server 16.3 HF2 (build 221345) 64-bit
>  Windows Server 2012 on a Dell PowerEdge Server, 3.4GHz Xeon 12-core, NVME 
> RAID 10 SSDs
>  10Gb Ethernet
> 
> Clients:
>  4D 16.3 build 219338 and 221345 32-bit
>  macOS 10.12.6 and 10.13.4 (mostly Mac Minis and iMacs), Windows Server 
> 2008R2 (about 8 VMs)
>  Gigabit Ethernet
> 
> We restrict wifi access to 4D Server to a handful of special cases, and only 
> allow remote access to 4D Server via screen sharing (LogMeIn, RDP, etc.)
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Re: 64 bit 15.6 database on Mac OS X Server - sharing of our experience

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

Yes, it looks just like that. I guess we’ll have to plan on moving to v16.

Cheers,


Paul


> Le 1 mai 2018 à 08:43, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> sounds similar to ACI0097483 (=ACI0097510)
> 
> https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?version=16.3_HF2
> 
> good news I suppose is that it should not happen in v16...
> 
> 
> 
> 
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64 bit 15.6 database on Mac OS X Server - sharing of our experience

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

I’m sharing my experience with 64 bit 4D 15.5 on Mac OS X during a real life 
“test” from last Saturday to Monday morning.

We have a database of about 120gb with about 160 simultaneous users. It runs on 
a bi-processor xServe with SSDs and 64gb of RAM.

After testing for a few days, we installed 4D Server 64 bit and went live on 
Saturday, when only about 30 users are connected. Cache was set to 12 gb, 
leaving lots of free memory for the OS.

Everything seemed to go pretty smoothly and the database was very fast for 
queries, thanks to the added cache (12 gb instead of 1 gb on 32 bit). The 
database ran well over the weekend. 

On Monday morning the users began logging on. When 57 out of 160 users had 
connected, the database crawled to a near halt. No other users were able to 
connect and operations which would normally take fractions of a second were 
taking a minute or more… CPU and network usage seemed normal on the server. 
Sadly decided to abandon the upgrade and go back to the 32 bit server.

I’m guessing the failure of our upgrade is due to the new network layer.

We’re considering moving the DB to Windows in hopes that network performance 
will be better. 

Cheers,


Paul

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Re: 4D Server crashing with MyConnect

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Rudy,

That was one of the things we are thinking about trying. We were hoping to 
avoid the hassle.

Thanks,


Paul


> Le 30 avr. 2018 à 11:30, Two Way Communications via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a écrit :
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> I run the plugin also with v15.5, but on Windows.
> 
> Except, I run a 4D client on the same machine as the server, that is running 
> all the code. Would that be a solution for you?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rudy Mortier
> Two Way Communications bvba 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 30 Apr 2018, at 09:06, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> We have been using MyConnect in 2 fairly large databases to extract data 
>> from a MySQL server every night of the last 9 or 10 years. For the last few 
>> weeks we’ve been struggling to track down 4D Server crashes which appear to 
>> be occurring due to MyConnect or something in our code related to the MySQL 
>> extraction. What’s strange is the code was working for years.
>> 
>> We are running v15.5 on OS X and we’ve upgraded to the latest version 3.01 
>> of MyConnect. 
>> 
>> I’ve done some logging to try to locate exactly where the error occurs in 
>> our code. It doesn’t not always happen in the same place, with the same 
>> table or records. This leads me to believe something is causing a memory 
>> leak or causing 4D to access an invalid memory address. 
>> 
>> Any ideas would be welcome.
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> **
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4D Server crashing with MyConnect

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We have been using MyConnect in 2 fairly large databases to extract data from a 
MySQL server every night of the last 9 or 10 years. For the last few weeks 
we’ve been struggling to track down 4D Server crashes which appear to be 
occurring due to MyConnect or something in our code related to the MySQL 
extraction. What’s strange is the code was working for years.

We are running v15.5 on OS X and we’ve upgraded to the latest version 3.01 of 
MyConnect. 

I’ve done some logging to try to locate exactly where the error occurs in our 
code. It doesn’t not always happen in the same place, with the same table or 
records. This leads me to believe something is causing a memory leak or causing 
4D to access an invalid memory address. 

Any ideas would be welcome.


Cheers,


Paul


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Re: A thought on re-indexing of a large database after repairs, compacting etc

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We have SSD. A high speed RAID is another story.


> Le 23 avr. 2018 à 10:59, Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
>> I don’t have the luxury of installing an SSD RAID.
> 
> A 512GB SSD is less than $200
> https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-500GB-Internal-MZ-76E500B-AM/dp/B0781Z7Y3S/
> 
> or just over if you go for the pro version with the 5 year warranty
> https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-512GB-Inch-Internal-MZ-76P512BW/dp/B07836C6YV/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E500B-AM/dp/B00OBRE5UE/ref=sr_1_5?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1524473660&sr=1-5&keywords=512gb+ssd>
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> [image: --]
> Wayne Stewart
> [image: http://]about.me/waynestewart
> <http://about.me/waynestewart>
> 
> 
> On 23 April 2018 at 15:51, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Chuck,
>> 
>> You know the old saying: “A watched pot never boils.”
>> Watching 4D reload the same table with 7 million records 8 times to
>> generate 8 indexes is kind of like that.
>> 
>> I don’t have the luxury of installing an SSD RAID. I’m sure better
>> hardware would help.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>>> Le 23 avr. 2018 à 04:20, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> OK I don;t get it. We have a data base of over 200 Gig with many
>> millions of records. We run using SSD,s in an Areca RAID. 1 Terabyte SSDs.
>> I can tell you that when we restored from a backup up and rebuilt indices
>> it took not more than 20 minutes to so. It does not matter if it is by
>> table or not. Yes I agree it would be faster by table but with a database
>> of this size, you really need to be running on an SSD RAID.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>> 
>>> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
>>> Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064
>>> mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com
>>> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>>>  Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
>>> http://www.informed-solutions.com
>>> 
>> 
>>> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be
>> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
>> applicable law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the
>> intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this
>> transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure,
>> printing, copying, storage, modification or the taking of any action in
>> reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this
>> message to any person other than the intended recipient shall not
>> compromise or waive such confidentiality, privilege or exemption from
>> disclosure as to this communication.
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 6:40 AM, Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess our database of 120gb, running on a 32 bit machine doesn’t
>> benefit from this. We were working on the most recent R release and
>> yesterday we went to 15.5.
>>>>> When reindexing the entire database, 4D Server/4D are still going
>> index by index instead of table by table.
>>> 
>>> **
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Re: A thought on re-indexing of a large database after repairs, compacting etc

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Chuck,

You know the old saying: “A watched pot never boils.” 
Watching 4D reload the same table with 7 million records 8 times to generate 8 
indexes is kind of like that.

I don’t have the luxury of installing an SSD RAID. I’m sure better hardware 
would help.

 

Paul


> Le 23 avr. 2018 à 04:20, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> OK I don;t get it. We have a data base of over 200 Gig with many millions of 
> records. We run using SSD,s in an Areca RAID. 1 Terabyte SSDs. I can tell you 
> that when we restored from a backup up and rebuilt indices it took not more 
> than 20 minutes to so. It does not matter if it is by table or not. Yes I 
> agree it would be faster by table but with a database of this size, you 
> really need to be running on an SSD RAID.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
> Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
> mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
>  http://www.informed-solutions.com  
> 
> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
> law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended 
> recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you 
> are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, 
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> transmission is strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this message to any person 
> other than the intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such 
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> communication. 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 6:40 AM, Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I guess our database of 120gb, running on a 32 bit machine doesn’t benefit 
>>> from this. We were working on the most recent R release and yesterday we 
>>> went to 15.5.
>>> When reindexing the entire database, 4D Server/4D are still going index by 
>>> index instead of table by table.
> 
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Re: A thought on re-indexing of a large database after repairs, compacting etc

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

I guess our database of 120gb, running on a 32 bit machine doesn’t benefit from 
this. We were working on the most recent R release and yesterday we went to 
15.5.
When reindexing the entire database, 4D Server/4D are still going index by 
index instead of table by table.

Or maybe I missed something.


Cheers,


Paul


> Le 21 avr. 2018 à 21:43, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> you can read about it in the 15R4 upgrade ref.
> 
> ftp://ftp-public.4d.fr/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/Line_15R4/VIntl/4D_Upgrade_v15_R4.pdf
> 
> p.62
> 
>> In 4D v15 R4, we have greatly optimized the algorithm for global reindexing 
>> of a database. The whole process has been dramatically accelerated, and can 
>> be up to two times faster.
>> 
>> Note: A global reindexing is required, for example, after a database repair 
>> or when the .4dindx file has been deleted.
>> 
>> Since each record of each indexed table needs to be loaded in memory during 
>> indexing, the optimization aimed at minimize disk swaps. This operation is 
>> now performed on each table sequentially, which reduces record loading and 
>> unloading operations.
>> 
>> In a perfect scenario, the cache would be large enough to contain the whole 
>> data file and index --- in this case there would be no speed improvement by 
>> the new algorithm. However, the available server memory is usually not that 
>> big. If the cache is large enough to hold at least the largest table and its 
>> index(es), the new algorithm will be up to twice as fast as before.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: A thought on re-indexing of a large database after repairs, compacting etc

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jeff,


We are on 15.5 now. I don’t see any R releases which are more recent. v15.5 
does not do this…


Paul


> Le 21 avr. 2018 à 17:06, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> 4D implemented this very improvement in the v15 R releases.
> 
> --
> Jeffrey Kain
> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
> 
> 
>> On Apr 21, 2018, at 8:04 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I guess you could call this a gripe but I don’t understand why, if a table 
>> has several indexes, 4D can’t load the data once and generate all the 
>> indexes for that table in one go. It would presumably allow for reindexing a 
>> database much quicker.
> 
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A thought on re-indexing of a large database after repairs, compacting etc

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

I’m working with a pretty big database, with about 120gb of data and about 45 
million records over about 250 tables. This database has been in use for about 
20 years and is growing ever faster.

I guess you could call this a gripe but I don’t understand why, if a table has 
several indexes, 4D can’t load the data once and generate all the indexes for 
that table in one go. It would presumably allow for reindexing a database much 
quicker.

Just my 2 cents worth. Maybe someone from the 4D engineering team could explain 
why I’m wrong.



Paul
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Re: Legacy network layer or not: 4D v15 on Mac OS server and v15.5

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

What is spooky is that nobody seems to be 100% behind the ServerNet 
architecture. This means that if we want 64 bit support, we have to go with a 
potentially troublesome network layer.


Paul


> Le 21 avr. 2018 à 01:30, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
>> I haven’t tried it yet, but I understand that the old network layer is 
>> available to all apps in v17.
> 
> You may be on to something, but the documentation still says it doesn't work:
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17/Architecture-of-64-bit-applications.300-3743775.en.html
> 
> Quote: " (*) With 32-bit versions of 4D Server (both platforms) and 64-bit 
> versions of 4D Server for Windows, you need to make sure that the ServerNet 
> network layer is activated on the server side, ***since the legacy network 
> layer is not available in 64-bit versions of 4D***. For more information, 
> please refer to the New ServerNet Network Layer (compatibility) section."
> 
> I am checking with the team on this.
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
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Legacy network layer or not: 4D v15 on Mac OS server and v15.5

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We have been having some intermittent crashes with 4D Server, 150+ users and a 
120gb database. We use “Execute on server” quite a bit and the release notes 
for 15.5 say a bug was fixed which could cause crashes with Execute on server.

We’re preparing to go from v15.4 to v15.5 and it apparently only has the new 
network layer. We have had the legacy layer up until now.
Is the new network layer ready for showtime now?


Does anyone have any experience with that Execute on server bug and whether it 
was resolved with v15.5?


Cheers,


Paul
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.tmp files created by 4D Server

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

We have a 4D Server v15 application running which has recently started leaving 
2 or 3 .tmp files in the Temporary files folder. Is there any way to read these 
files and determine which process created them?


Thanks in advance,


Paul
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Hierarchical lists with 3 or more levels - how to get the name of each level if an element is selected and how to set the list to an element

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We’ve been using hierarchical lists with 2 levels for some time, particularly 
in drop down menus. There are 4D commands which allow us to get the name and 
position of the element selected as well as the parent’s name and position. We 
need to start using 3 or 4 levels and I’m not clear on how to get and set 
positions beyond 2 levels.

I’m not clear on how to get a grandparent’s name and position or a 
great-grandparent’s. Also, I’d like to have a way to preset a drop-down menu to 
a given selection based on, say, a variable or field value.

Does anyone have a good example of this?

Thanks in advance,


Paul

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Re: European Data Protection Reglementation to take effect on May 25 - 4D compliance?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Pat and Chip,

Thanks for your replies.

I’ve done a lot of reading up in the meantime. This looks like a big one for 
anyone who’s doing business in Europe. The security requirements are quite 
extensive. 

I don’t have time to get into all of it right now but apparently US companies, 
for example, are spending something like $7 billion to adapt their systems to 
become compliant. Big software packages like Oracle and SAP are compliant. 
Adding compliancy to custom solutions developed in 4D could be very, very 
costly. Fines can be as high as €20 million per case. It’s estimated that the 
European Union could impose around €7 billion in fines in the first year alone.


Scary.


Paul


> Le 14 févr. 2018 à 11:13, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Here is a good source of info on GDPR:
> https://unbounce.com/gdpr/
> 
> Pat
> 
> On 13 February 2018 at 19:26, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> TLDR; the rules  :)
>> 
>> My goto on encryption would be:
>> File vault on Mac OS X (OS level disk encryption) or something similar on
>> a PC,
>> or drive level encryption (in the hardware, not software)
>> Chip
>> 
>>> 
>>> Things such as protection against data breaches, data encryption,
>>> data portability etc. are raised by this new set of rules. In
>>> particular, I was thinking about low-level data encryption and
>>> whether there is any way to implement this in 4D and still provide a
>>> usable interface and good performance.
>> 
>> Hell is other people
>> Jean-Paul Sartre
>> **
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> *
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> w: http://www.catbase.com
> skype: pat.bensky
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European Data Protection Reglementation to take effect on May 25 - 4D compliance?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

Some of you doing business in Europe may be aware of the new set of rules which 
will took effect on May 25 2016 and must be applied by May 25 2017. II was 
asked to assess the impact on a big database we manage in 4D and I was 
wondering if anyone else has spent time and effort on this question. Just 
understanding all the legalistic text in these rules would probably require a 
team of lawyers and consultants: 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A32016R0679

Things such as protection against data breaches, data encryption, data 
portability etc. are raised by this new set of rules. In particular, I was 
thinking about low-level data encryption and whether there is any way to 
implement this in 4D and still provide a usable interface and good performance.

Any thoughts are welcome.


Cheers,


Paul
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Re: "Goodbye 4D Write" email

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We’ve been using 4D Write quite extensively for years. We have over 200 user 
licences on two big databases. We mostly use it now to generate html emails.

We haven’t undertaken the move to downgrade to the “pro” version, which we are 
not looking forward to at all.

4D has been gutting functionality for years in areas they called plugins such 
as 4D Chart.

I can appreciate their business constraints but we have ours too.


Paul


> Le 1 févr. 2018 à 18:00, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> The more things change the more they stay the same. 4D like any company
> makes decision on how to spend money. There are probably not enough users
> of 4D write to warrant the cost associated with porting to 64 bit. While
> this hurts at one of my customers, think of it this way. How many of you
> used to work using Foxbase, dBase, Omnis, to name a few. Just be greatful
> that the company has been able to keep up with the times and is still a
> viable product.
> 
> Just my 2 cents
> 
> Regards
> Chuck
> 
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have been using 4D Write Pro for quite some time now as an editor for
>> E-Mails.
>> Porting the functionality I had before using 4d Write (mostly dynamic
>> access to data) was quite simple.
>> Nevertheless, there is quite a lot missing for it to replace 4D Write for
>> those who need a „real“ text editor.
>> 4D Write has been ignored by 4D for ages and the new 4D Write Pro falls
>> short on a lot of things.
>> On the other hand, functionality like 4D Write is used only ba a small
>> percentage of developers, and I am quite baffled, that it is the only
>> special functionality where no plugin developer has come up with something
>> optional (OK, 4D Chart qualifies as well).
>> Could developing a Plugin like 4D Write with modern functionality really
>> bee so difficult as not to be commercially viable?
>> I mean there are (huge) plugins for
>> - Reporting
>> - Drawing
>> - Scheduling
>> - GridTools
>> - Graphics
>> - etc
>> - etc
>> 
>> Come on you plugin developers, give us a real Word processing Plugin and
>> there will be a market for it.
>> Sadly this kind of development is out of my league, or i’d do it.
>> 
>> My 2ct
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Alex
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
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Re: Server HyperThreading

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jeff,

We have 4D server 15.4 running on Apple hardware, 8 cores - 16 with 
hyperthreading. From what I can see in Activity Monitor, only half of the cores 
get used, which makes me suspect the virtual cores are not being used. This is 
v15 and 32 bit. Maybe v16 and/or 64 bit changes that.

Cheers,


Paul


> Le 27 déc. 2017 à 16:06, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Is there any conventional wisdom out there (or better yet some 4D Server 
> benchmark) regarding whether HyperThreaded cores help or hurt 4D Server 
> performance?
> 
> Thanks!
> Jeff
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Re: Server 15.4 crashing on Mac OS X xServe - interpreting spindump?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for your comments.

4D Server, the application, data and backups are on internal SSDs on an xServe. 
The application does access text and xml files on a mounted SMB volume. Since 
upgrading to v15 we’ve noticed some problems with reading and writing to the 
SMB volume. We suspect this may be related to our freezes.

The server is running on Yosemite, as we didn’t feel the need to upgrade. Not 
sure if that would help.

Yes, 64 bit would be our next step, though not on Mac as we have a lot of 
things in 4D Write that I dread moving to 4D Write “Pro”.

We do have the cache set to 1000mb to allow a maximum amount of memory for the 
processes. We’ve seen no signs of memory pressure.

These 3 crashes in less than a day are really new for us. This database has 
been running and growing for years, recently still on 4D v12. Performance is 
surprisingly good, even with up to 162 users logged on.

Thanks again for your help.


Paul


> Le 5 déc. 2017 à 18:12, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> It looks like you are running a 32 bit version of 4D Server, and from a 
> mounted volume instead of an actual location:
> Quote: " Path:/Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D Server 32-bit 
> 15.4.app/Contents/MacOS/4D Server"
> ^ I would suggest checking and making sure this is installed properly because 
> the 'path' listed in the spindump looks like it may be a translocated path (I 
> thought this was a feature of Sierra).
> 
> Also, 32 bit applications are limited to 4 Gigabytes of memory while 64 bit 
> applications are limited to 16 Exabyte's of memory.
> 
> With 110 gb database and 150 users, I would guess you are hitting the 4 GB 
> limit rather quickly because you likely have set the largest cache possible 
> (2038 MB) which would set your memory footprint to about 3 GB on startup; 
> then I would further guess that the normal usage from 150 users would likely 
> eat up the remaining 1 GB of memory bringing the overall footprint up to 4 GB.
> 
> I suggest checking how much memory your application is using at the time of 
> these issues. If it is close to 4 GB then this is why you are having issues.
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77475
> 
> I think that the 64 bit version of 4D Server would be much better for a 110 
> gb database with about 150 users.
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Server 15.4 crashing on Mac OS X xServe - interpreting spindump?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your advice. Nothing has changed for several weeks in the code base 
and nothing recently regarding arrays.

We regularly check and repair  with MSC if necessarily and always rebuild 
indexes when we do. I’m suspecting some i/o problems, perhaps with a volume 
mounted in SMB. Also, we have just started having a few users with OS X 10.3.


Cheers,


Paul



> Le 5 déc. 2017 à 11:09, Ronald Rosell via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Paul:
> 
> Could be something as simple as an out-of-range error on an array;  I’ve seen 
> that cause 4D to consume 100% of CPU and then freeze.
> 
> If any code was recently modified (especially involving arrays), I’d check on 
> that.  Also, run Maintenance & Security Center diagnostics and repair any 
> damaged records, if necessary.  
> 
> Finally, dropping indexes (quit, then delete the .4Dindx file associated with 
> your data file, then restart) and having the indexes automatically regenerate 
> can help clean out “gunk”.  (That’s a technical term I just made up.)  
> Rebuilding indexes has made weird problems go away for me a few times over 
> the years.
> 
> Ron Rosell
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:17 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> We’ve have two big freezes in 16 hours on 110 gb database with about 150 
>> users. 4D v15.4 is running on Mac OS X 10.10.5 on an xServe with 16gb RAM 
>> and 1tb SSD. There don’t appear to be any issues with the hardware. The 
>> Console doesn’t show anything in particular, other than a 4D Server spindump.
>> 
>> Activity monitor showed 100% cpu and the application was unresponsive for 
>> about 30 minutes before I force quit it.
>> 
>> Does anyone know how to interpret this dump from the console?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Date/Time:   2017-12-05 09:16:47 +0100
>> OS Version:  10.10.5 (Build 14F2315)
>> Architecture:x86_64
>> Report Version:  21
>> 
>> Command: 4D Server
>> Path:/Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D Server 32-bit 
>> 15.4.app/Contents/MacOS/4D Server
>> Version: 15.4 build 15.208269 (15.0.4)
>> PID: 340
>> 
>> Event:   timeout-lite
>> Duration:9.90s
>> Steps:   100 (100ms sampling interval)
>> 
>> Hardware model:  Xserve3,1
>> Active cpus: 16
>> 
>> 
>> Heaviest stack for the main thread of the target process:
>> 100  start + 53 (4D Server + 7525) [0x2d65]
>> 100  _main() + 120 (4D Server + 3708643) [0x38a6e3]
>> 100  xbox::VProcess::Run() + 182 (Kernel + 420806) [0x2544bc6]
>> 100  V4DApplication::DoRun() + 208 (4D Server + 258) [0x26610e]
>> 100  scanprocess(bool, bool) + 261 (4D Server + 1940275) [0x1dab33]
>> 100  V4DScheduler::ScheduleOneProcess(long, unsigned long) + 422 (4D Server 
>> + 1939092) [0x1da694]
>> 100  gere1process(long) + 208 (4D Server + 1939316) [0x1da774]
>> 100  xbox::VTaskMgr::YieldToFiber(xbox::VTask*) + 27 (Kernel + 448683) 
>> [0x254b8ab]
>> 100  xbox::XMacTaskMgr::YieldToFiber(xbox::VTask*) + 53 (Kernel + 460389) 
>> [0x254e665]
>> 100  VMacFiber_thread::Run() + 124 (Kernel + 691628) [0x2586dac]
>> 100  SetThreadState + 208 (CarbonCore + 773563) [0x91bd8dbb]
>> 100  YieldToThread + 429 (CarbonCore + 773994) [0x91bd8f6a]
>> 100  mach_msg_trap + 10 (libsystem_kernel.dylib + 80334) [0x94f239ce]
>> *100  ipc_mqueue_receive_continue + 0 (kernel + 1136864) [0xff80003158e0]
>> 
>> Binary Images:
>> 0x1000 -   0xb91fff  com.4D.4DServer 15.4 build 
>> 15.208269 (15.0.4) <5471BA23-F6D6-3583-A4D7-860A07E6F086>  
>> /Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D Server 32-bit 15.4.app/Contents/MacOS/4D Server
>>  0x24de000 -  0x2623fff  com.4d.kernel 1.0 (1.0) 
>>   <84C93DD1-FB82-30C3-8303-F91B49C38E72>  /Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D 
>> Server 32-bit 15.4.app/Contents/Frameworks/Kernel.framework/Versions/A/Kernel
>> 0x91b1c000 - 0x91e1afff  com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 
>> 1108.6 (1108.6)   
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore
>> 0x94f1 - 0x94f2  libsystem_kernel.dylib 
>> (2782.50.9.1.1)<1D42E368-2011-3E8F-B6FA-F7830147E801>  
>> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_kernel.dylib
>> *0xff800020 - 0xff80009f  kernel (2782.50.9.1.1) 
>><7BF2F11D-8063-35A4-9FCF-597FF553DFD6>  
>> /System/Library/Kernels/kernel
>> 
>> *

Server 15.4 crashing on Mac OS X xServe - interpreting spindump?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We’ve have two big freezes in 16 hours on 110 gb database with about 150 users. 
4D v15.4 is running on Mac OS X 10.10.5 on an xServe with 16gb RAM and 1tb SSD. 
There don’t appear to be any issues with the hardware. The Console doesn’t show 
anything in particular, other than a 4D Server spindump.

Activity monitor showed 100% cpu and the application was unresponsive for about 
30 minutes before I force quit it.

Does anyone know how to interpret this dump from the console?



Date/Time:   2017-12-05 09:16:47 +0100
OS Version:  10.10.5 (Build 14F2315)
Architecture:x86_64
Report Version:  21

Command: 4D Server
Path:/Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D Server 32-bit 15.4.app/Contents/MacOS/4D 
Server
Version: 15.4 build 15.208269 (15.0.4)
PID: 340

Event:   timeout-lite
Duration:9.90s
Steps:   100 (100ms sampling interval)

Hardware model:  Xserve3,1
Active cpus: 16


Heaviest stack for the main thread of the target process:
  100  start + 53 (4D Server + 7525) [0x2d65]
  100  _main() + 120 (4D Server + 3708643) [0x38a6e3]
  100  xbox::VProcess::Run() + 182 (Kernel + 420806) [0x2544bc6]
  100  V4DApplication::DoRun() + 208 (4D Server + 258) [0x26610e]
  100  scanprocess(bool, bool) + 261 (4D Server + 1940275) [0x1dab33]
  100  V4DScheduler::ScheduleOneProcess(long, unsigned long) + 422 (4D Server + 
1939092) [0x1da694]
  100  gere1process(long) + 208 (4D Server + 1939316) [0x1da774]
  100  xbox::VTaskMgr::YieldToFiber(xbox::VTask*) + 27 (Kernel + 448683) 
[0x254b8ab]
  100  xbox::XMacTaskMgr::YieldToFiber(xbox::VTask*) + 53 (Kernel + 460389) 
[0x254e665]
  100  VMacFiber_thread::Run() + 124 (Kernel + 691628) [0x2586dac]
  100  SetThreadState + 208 (CarbonCore + 773563) [0x91bd8dbb]
  100  YieldToThread + 429 (CarbonCore + 773994) [0x91bd8f6a]
  100  mach_msg_trap + 10 (libsystem_kernel.dylib + 80334) [0x94f239ce]
 *100  ipc_mqueue_receive_continue + 0 (kernel + 1136864) [0xff80003158e0]

  Binary Images:
  0x1000 -   0xb91fff  com.4D.4DServer 15.4 build 15.208269 
(15.0.4) <5471BA23-F6D6-3583-A4D7-860A07E6F086>  /Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D 
Server 32-bit 15.4.app/Contents/MacOS/4D Server
   0x24de000 -  0x2623fff  com.4d.kernel 1.0 (1.0)  
 <84C93DD1-FB82-30C3-8303-F91B49C38E72>  /Volumes/VOLUME/*/4D 
Server 32-bit 15.4.app/Contents/Frameworks/Kernel.framework/Versions/A/Kernel
  0x91b1c000 - 0x91e1afff  com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 
1108.6 (1108.6)   
/System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore
  0x94f1 - 0x94f2  libsystem_kernel.dylib 
(2782.50.9.1.1)<1D42E368-2011-3E8F-B6FA-F7830147E801>  
/usr/lib/system/libsystem_kernel.dylib
 *0xff800020 - 0xff80009f  kernel (2782.50.9.1.1)   
 <7BF2F11D-8063-35A4-9FCF-597FF553DFD6>  
/System/Library/Kernels/kernel
  
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Re: [offish]Volume of mail

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Chip,

I've noticed the same thing. 

Sadly I think your suspicions are founded. 

4D doesn't share much information in the way of marketing statistics. 

Paul 



> On 5 oct. 2017, at 18:52, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I know that many of you have been on this list for a long time, as have 
> I.
> 
> I have noticed, over the past couple of years, that the volume of email 
> on this list has dropped - a lot -. It used to be, that if I was out of 
> the office, or whatever, and unable/unwilling to check email for 1 or 
> more days, I could expect to see ~100 emails/day from this list. While 
> I have not done an actual count, I believe that currently this list 
> sees, on average about 100 emails a week.
> 
> While this might be a good thing (less bugs to report/talk about etc), 
> I find it troubling in that it likely reflects a significantly 
> diminished use of the 4D product.
> 
> Thoughts, Anyone?
> Chip
> 
> ---
> Gas is for washing parts
> Alcohol is for drinkin'
> Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Command numbers and names and using Execute

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks!


> Le 21 sept. 2017 à 18:05, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> ARRAY TEXT is command #222 so you could do
> 
> EXECUTE FORMULA(":C222(...)")
> 
> C must be uppercase.
> 
> c.f.
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16.2/Using-tokens-in-formulas.300-3432926.en.html
> 
>> 2017/09/22 0:34、Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>> 
>> I want to use the Execute command in a multi-lingual environment use it to 
>> execute 4D commands such as ARRAY TEXT(). Of course, this would fail as is 
>> on a French version of 4D. I believe there’s a way to use Execute() with the 
>> internal command numbers but I can’t find anything in the docs or the 
>> knowledge base.
>> Does anyone know how to do this?
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Command numbers and names and using Execute

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Nigel!


> Le 21 sept. 2017 à 17:51, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Paul.
> 
> When i was writing my rather excellent(even though i say so myself) auto 
> variable declaring code I wanted the command and command numbers. I just 
> looked up what i did
> 
> I ran this bit of code :- 
> ARRAY TEXT(SC_at_CommandNames;0)
> For ($i;1;1)//well i know there are less than 1 commands for the next 
> few years at least:)
> 
>  $_t_CommandName:=Command name($i)
>If ($_t_CommandName#"")
>   APPEND TO ARRAY(SC_at_CommandNames;$_t_CommandName)
>End if 
> End for 
> 
> Now of course you could store the command id ($i) in an array write the 
> ‘English’ command  name and number to an xml. and when in a French version 
> load the ‘French names’ and IDS compare them to the ones in your text and 
> replace the english command with the french command or execute the command by 
> ID
> storing your text in the following format:
> 
> 
> $_t_CommandName:=Get_CommandName($EnglishCommand)<-in which you lookup the ID 
> of the command in your xml document(veryfast) and return the ID of that 
> command and then get the localised command name
> 
> or you could store a version of your text in which the name is replaced with:
> $_t_CommandName:=Command name(numberofcommand) when you save the text of your 
> execute-in this case you could just hold the local command ids in an array.
> Execute($_t_CommandName)
> 
> Either way you have to convert from the language you wrote the statement in 
> to an ID and then get the localised name of the command from the ID
> 
> 
> Hope thats enough for you
> 
> Nigel Greenlee
> 
>> On 21 Sep 2017, at 16:34, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I want to use the Execute command in a multi-lingual environment use it to 
>> execute 4D commands such as ARRAY TEXT(). Of course, this would fail as is 
>> on a French version of 4D. I believe there’s a way to use Execute() with the 
>> internal command numbers but I can’t find anything in the docs or the 
>> knowledge base.
>> 
>> Does anyone know how to do this?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> **
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Command numbers and names and using Execute

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

I want to use the Execute command in a multi-lingual environment use it to 
execute 4D commands such as ARRAY TEXT(). Of course, this would fail as is on a 
French version of 4D. I believe there’s a way to use Execute() with the 
internal command numbers but I can’t find anything in the docs or the knowledge 
base.

Does anyone know how to do this?

Thanks in advance,


Paul
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4D Server 15.3 crashes a server when choosing a datafile

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We have a Mac OSX 10.10.5 server that has been running a 4D Server 15.3 
database successfully for a few months.
Starting a week ago, when we install a new version of the compiled database, 
the moment we select the database file to be used with the application, the 
machine crashes.
This is being done via Apple Remote Desktop.

Does anyone have any idea what might be going on?

tia

Paul
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Re: Serious 4D Internet commands issue in v15.4 with SMTP on Mac OS X

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Spencer,

No, none of the fields or variables involved have that property selected.

Paul

> Le 26 juil. 2017 à 14:41, Spencer Hinsdale via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> a écrit :
> 
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Look at forms being used for data entry to see if these text fields have the 
> Multi-style checkbox checked in Properties.
> 
> Here is a v14 picture:
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77175
> 
> And v15 feature:
> http://livedoc.4d.com/4D-Design-Reference-15.4/Properties-for-active-objects/Multi-style-Rich-text-area.300-3285451.en.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 9:36 PM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It seems this does not do the trick in all instances.
>> 
>> It appears there may be a problem with the text in the fields. I exported to 
>> text and everything looks fine but some texts truncate with a “?” when the 
>> email is sent. I have re-typed some of the offending texts and they work 
>> fine. The strange thing is they are identical, character-to-character, to 
>> the texts that are truncating in the emails. Could it be something to do 
>> with a length byte or something else that 4D stores along with the text in 
>> the fields?
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Serious 4D Internet commands issue in v15.4 with SMTP on Mac OS X

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

It seems this does not do the trick in all instances.

It appears there may be a problem with the text in the fields. I exported to 
text and everything looks fine but some texts truncate with a “?” when the 
email is sent. I have re-typed some of the offending texts and they work fine. 
The strange thing is they are identical, character-to-character, to the texts 
that are truncating in the emails. Could it be something to do with a length 
byte or something else that 4D stores along with the text in the fields?

Cheers,


Paul

> 
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> I just commented out the lines
> 
>  $err:=SMTP_SetPrefs (1;1;0)
> $err:=SMTP_Charset (1;1)
> 
> and it appeared to solve the problem. So it would appear the internet 
> commands' default behavior is different in v15.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Paul
> 
>> Le 24 juil. 2017 à 14:19, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> a écrit :
>> 
>> What character set are you using?
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>>> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The mails are sent to the desired destination  but the subject and the body 
>>> are often truncated, with a “?” at the end of the subject or body where the 
>>> rest of the text should be. In most cases, the texts are generated 
>>> automatically from records in the database. The subject and body are 
>>> generated automatically. 
>> 
>> **
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Re: Serious 4D Internet commands issue in v15.4 with SMTP on Mac OS X

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi again,

I just commented out the lines

 $err:=SMTP_SetPrefs (1;1;0)
$err:=SMTP_Charset (1;1)

and it appeared to solve the problem. So it would appear the internet commands' 
default behavior is different in v15.

Thanks!


Paul

> Le 24 juil. 2017 à 14:19, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> What character set are you using?
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The mails are sent to the desired destination  but the subject and the body 
>> are often truncated, with a “?” at the end of the subject or body where the 
>> rest of the text should be. In most cases, the texts are generated 
>> automatically from records in the database. The subject and body are 
>> generated automatically. 
> 
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Re: Serious 4D Internet commands issue in v15.4 with SMTP on Mac OS X

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jeffrey,

Good question. We have always done this 

 $err:=SMTP_SetPrefs (1;1;0)
$err:=SMTP_Charset (1;1)


In this database. I would guess  that’s been there for 20 years in legacy code 
I never touched…

Paul


> Le 24 juil. 2017 à 14:19, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> What character set are you using?
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The mails are sent to the desired destination  but the subject and the body 
>> are often truncated, with a “?” at the end of the subject or body where the 
>> rest of the text should be. In most cases, the texts are generated 
>> automatically from records in the database. The subject and body are 
>> generated automatically. 
> 
> **
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Serious 4D Internet commands issue in v15.4 with SMTP on Mac OS X

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

Last week we upgraded a v12 database to v15. Most things are working perfectly 
but we have some serious issues sending emails with the SMTP commands. 

We have been sending hundreds of thousands of emails successfully with our 
application over the years. Now we are encountering a serious issue.

The mails are sent to the desired destination  but the subject and the body are 
often truncated, with a “?” at the end of the subject or body where the rest of 
the text should be. In most cases, the texts are generated automatically from 
records in the database. The subject and body are generated automatically. 

Has anyone seen this? Are there known issues with the internet commands in 
v15.4?


Cheers,


Paul
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CanvasJS on Windows 8

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We’ve been using CanvasJS on a v12 and v15 app running on Mac. We just tested 
it on Windows 8 and we get an error 1010 saying “The specified module could not 
be found”. For some reason it won’t load, and is not available within the app.

Has anyone used CanvasJS on Windows? Do you have this problem?


Cheers,


Paul
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Re: Linux in the future?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Neil,

Yes, we’ve been looking into the Mac Pro as an option to replace a stack of 
xServes. But the Mac Pro is end- 2013 without any updates. It’s getting long in 
the tooth and much of the price is for high-end graphics which don’t help one 
bit. We’ve read rumors of a modular Mac Pro for 2018. We’ll either hold out for 
that or switch to Win.


Paul


> Le 16 juin 2017 à 16:31, Dennis, Neil  a écrit :
> 
>> Thanks for the reply. It’s a pity. With Apple having abandoned server 
>> hardware years ago,
>> the only legal choice is Windows. What a shame for a non-Windows shop to 
>> have to support
>> a Windows server just for that. That adds lots of cost and complexity.
> 
> Just because Apple doesn't have an XServer any more, if you want to stay 
> non-windows (or just Mac), Apple has some pretty impressive machines. The Mac 
> Pro is beefy enough to handle even demanding server loads (12 core 2.7 Xeon 
> processor, 64 GB ram, 1TB flash storage), the new iMac Pro (coming in 
> December has up to 18 cores, 128 GB memory 4T SSD, and a 4.5 Xeon processor)
> 
> Granted none of these are rack mountable and don't have things like dual 
> power supplies so they don't count as "servers" but the performance would 
> rival some of the best windows servers out there.
> 
> 
> Neil
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Privacy Disclaimer: This message contains confidential information and is 
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> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this email. Please delete this 
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> disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the 
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> 
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Re: Linux in the future?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Neil,

Thanks for the reply. It’s a pity. With Apple having abandoned server hardware 
years ago, the only legal choice is Windows. What a shame for a non-Windows 
shop to have to support a Windows server just for that. That adds lots of cost 
and complexity.

Paul


> Le 16 juin 2017 à 15:33, npdennis  a écrit :
> 
>> I remember years ago 4D “Universal” was supposed to run on Linux one day. I 
>> haven’t followed the DEVCONs in a while. Are there still any discussions 
>> concerning a Linux version of 4D Server?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t heard anything since “years ago”. I saw it once then never heard 
> again. So if they are still working towards that it will be a surprise to us 
> all :)
> 
> 
> Neil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --

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Linux in the future?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

I remember years ago 4D “Universal” was supposed to run on Linux one day. I 
haven’t followed the DEVCONs in a while. Are there still any discussions 
concerning a Linux version of 4D Server?


Paul
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Re: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

The Power Sleep option was a killer. When we turned it off the 4D Server 
performance problems went away instantly. What a relief. Why on earth would 
Apple even have that option available and set to default on a server OS?

In any case, the immediate problem of running v12 on OS X 10.10.5 is resolved. 
Next step: install our upgraded databases on v15.


Paul



> Le 18 mai 2017 à 16:24, Myriad List via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Paul;
> 
> We have several instances of this specific problem.  I have several points 
> that may help your decision.
> 
> On April 4th of this year Apple announced that a new modular successor model 
> to the Mac Pro was being designed and would be available potentially 2018 
> because they were just starting work on it.  Now as we know Apple is super 
> tight lipped on product so we believe something shocked Apple into taking 
> this action including announcing what they were building.  I confirmed this 
> with an Apple Business rep and the news was published in several places.  The 
> successor will be modular and not based on the current cylinder.  It should 
> be a more worthy successor to the Pro Towers which while not rack mounted 
> were quite solid.
> 
> https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/04/apple-updates-mac-pro-and-more/ 
> 
> 
> Secondly you can get decent refurbs of the Mac Pro Aluminums towers
> 
> Our 4D Server Mac clients really didn’t want to introduce Windows Server 
> unless it was absolutely necessary so with this news some are waiting it out 
> and some have purchased a “bridge” box in the meantime.  You can find very 
> capable Aluminum MacPro towers refurbished from macsales.com 
> .  The price is very reasonable and some can handle up 
> to 128 gigs ram.  2011 and 2012 units which can handle OSX 10.6.8 through 
> 10.11 are readily available.  Plenty of spare parts exist for redundancy, 
> including processors, video and power supplies.  You can get decent Xeon 
> 4,6,8 or 12 core boxes 3.46 Ghz.
> 
> John Bernhoft
> Myriad Systems llc
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Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We are hitting the limits of our old xServe hardware which is currently running 
large v12 databases. We are planning a major upgrade to 4D v15 but we are 
running into difficulties with the stability of these old xServes with OS X 
10.10 or more recent, which is required for v15. We are currently attempting to 
run v12 on OS X 10.10.5 and the results are disastrous, so we have to go back 
to older OS versions.

Since Apple has no longer upgraded its server hardware for over 7 years, this 
is obviously a lost cause. So we will be looking to move to Windows.

Has anyone done such a move recently? Does 4D have a policy for side-grades 
from Mac to Win for server licenses?


Cheers,


Paul
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Re: Finding where a filter or format is used in a structure

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Randy,

The log from the verify does in any case.


Paul

> Le 12 mai 2017 à 15:04, Randy Jaynes via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> I haven’t tried this - does the log let you know where these deletions 
> occurred so you can go set them to more appropriate filters?
> 
> That was the reason I had written my method - I needed to track down 
> inconsistencies.
> 
> Randy
> 
> --
> Randy Jaynes
> Senior Programmer and Customer Support
> 
> http://printpoint.com • (845) 359-0298 • PrintPoint, Inc • 57 Ludlow Lane • 
> Palisades, NY 10964 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 12, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, great idea. Deleting the filter and the repairing with MSC removes all 
>> the filters in variables and fields.
>> 
>> Thanks for the tip.
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> Le 12 mai 2017 à 13:15, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
>>> écrit :
>>> 
>>> you could FORM GET NAMES ,
>>> iterate with FORM LOAD, FORM GET OBJECTS, OBJECT Get filter
>>> and process the results.
>>> 
>>> alternatively,
>>> you could create a copy of the structure,
>>> delete the filter in toolbox and run MSC verify.
>>> 
>>> 2017/05/12 20:08、Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech 
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com<mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> のメール：
>>> 
>>> With the good old 4D Insider it was easy to find where filters and formats 
>>> created in the Toolbox were used in a structure. This feature disappeared 
>>> with v11 and I certainly miss it, as I have to remove filters from fields 
>>> and variables in v15 which are causing problems with certain accented 
>>> characters (per my topic "Circumflex strangeness with v15 on OS X 10.10.5”.
>>> 
>>> Is there a way in v15 to find where filters and formats are used?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
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Re: Finding where a filter or format is used in a structure

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Yes, great idea. Deleting the filter and the repairing with MSC removes all the 
filters in variables and fields.

Thanks for the tip.


Paul

> Le 12 mai 2017 à 13:15, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> you could FORM GET NAMES ,
> iterate with FORM LOAD, FORM GET OBJECTS, OBJECT Get filter
> and process the results.
> 
> alternatively,
> you could create a copy of the structure,
> delete the filter in toolbox and run MSC verify.
> 
> 2017/05/12 20:08、Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com<mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> のメール：
> 
> With the good old 4D Insider it was easy to find where filters and formats 
> created in the Toolbox were used in a structure. This feature disappeared 
> with v11 and I certainly miss it, as I have to remove filters from fields and 
> variables in v15 which are causing problems with certain accented characters 
> (per my topic "Circumflex strangeness with v15 on OS X 10.10.5”.
> 
> Is there a way in v15 to find where filters and formats are used?
> 
> 
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Finding where a filter or format is used in a structure

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

With the good old 4D Insider it was easy to find where filters and formats 
created in the Toolbox were used in a structure. This feature disappeared with 
v11 and I certainly miss it, as I have to remove filters from fields and 
variables in v15 which are causing problems with certain accented characters 
(per my topic "Circumflex strangeness with v15 on OS X 10.10.5”.

Is there a way in v15 to find where filters and formats are used?

Cheers,


Paul
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Re: Circumflex strangeness with v15 on OS X 10.10.5

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Miyako,

The users are based in Europe and have keyboards which make entering these 
accented characters quite easy. There is one key for the “^” and the system 
waits for a vowel over which it will be placed. With this bug, the user winds 
up with the “^” on the vowel as well as stand-alone.

I have progressed somewhat. We use entry filters to avoid users cutting and 
pasting garbage such as control characters from outside sources. If we remove 
the entry filter it works normally. We haven’t been able to construct a filter 
which does what we want. We can’t use an empty filter either, so we have a 
database with thousands of fields using the filter that causes the problem :-(


Paul
> Le 12 mai 2017 à 02:20, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> how is the user typing the circumflex character?
> assuming the U.S. keyboard layout is used,
> option+I would enter a combining circumflex with yellow background.
> following it with another letter would yield the accented character.
> but other keyboard layouts (U.S. extended, or FR, for example) have other 
> conventions.
> 
> there is also the feature that allows the user to long-press a key to enter 
> accented characters.
> 
> last but not least, it the problem restricted to 4D or any application?
> 
>> 2017/05/11 22:54、Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>> 
>> We have noticed an annoying issue with the circumflex character (^) on OS X 
>> 10.10.5.
>> 
>> If a user wants to write the word capôter, the circumflex “^" is typed 
>> before typing the “o". The system then placed the circumflex on top of the o 
>> to produce “ô".
>> 
>> What we are seeing is cap^ôter instead of capôter because somehow the user 
>> gets two circumflexes even though only one was typed (wish ATMs worked that 
>> way).
>> 
>> Has anyone else seen this? Perhaps there’s a compatibility setting I’m 
>> missing somewhere?
>> 
>> It seems to work fine on OSX 10.12x
> 
> 
> 
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Circumflex strangeness with v15 on OS X 10.10.5

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi everyone,

We have noticed an annoying issue with the circumflex character (^) on OS X 
10.10.5. 

If a user wants to write the word capôter, the circumflex “^" is typed before 
typing the “o". The system then placed the circumflex on top of the o to 
produce “ô". 

What we are seeing is cap^ôter instead of capôter because somehow the user gets 
two circumflexes even though only one was typed (wish ATMs worked that way).

Has anyone else seen this? Perhaps there’s a compatibility setting I’m missing 
somewhere?

It seems to work fine on OSX 10.12x


Cheers,


Paul

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Re: 4D server 12.6 on OSX 10.10.5?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Great. Thanks for the info.

Paul


> Le 4 mai 2017 à 09:56, Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> 
>> Le 4 mai 2017 à 07:38, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
>> écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Arnaud,
>> 
>> [...]
>> What OS version are you running 4D Server on?
> 
> It's mac osX 10.10.5 "yosemite" (machine = mac mini unibody, users ~ 30). 
> 
> -- 
> Arnaud de Montard 
> 
> 
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Re: 4D server 12.6 on OSX 10.10.5?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Arnaud,

We’ve been using it in deployment on 10.10x workstations for some time but 4D 
Server is still running on 10.6.8…

What OS version are you running 4D Server on?

Cheers,


Paul

> Le 3 mai 2017 à 18:11, Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> 
>> Le 3 mai 2017 à 17:12, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
>> écrit :
>> 
>> Has anyone successfully run 4D server v12 on OSX 10.10.5?
> 
> Hi Paul, 
> v12.6 with osX 10.10.5
> - frequent crashes when I quit in development mode, no consequences at all
> - runs like a charm on C/S deployment (since X years, but I don't remember X)
> 
> -- 
> anyone de Montard 
> 
> 
> 
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4D server 12.6 on OSX 10.10.5?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We are migrating a couple of large databases from v12 to v15. The databases are 
running on vintage XServe hardware. In order to facilitate the move, I was 
wondering if it is prudent to update our xServes to 10.10.5 and continue 
running v12.6 of 4D Server for a short time while we handle the migration.

Has anyone successfully run 4D server v12 on OSX 10.10.5?

Thanks in advance,


Paul
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Re: QR code

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to all of you for your help.

Cheers!


> Le 26 avr. 2017 à 11:27, Sujit Shah via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Check Miyako GitHub as well
> 
> 
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 at 6:33 pm, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Check out the barcode plugin from HM Plugins
>> https://www.hmplugins.com/en/hmBarcode/Features-133.html
>> 
>> On 26 April 2017 at 09:23, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I spent some time on the partner section looking but I couldn’t find
>>> anything on QR codes. Does anything exist to produce these things?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> **
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *
>> CatBase - The Database Publishing Solution
>> tel: +44 (0) 207 118 7889
>> w: http://www.catbase.com
>> skype: pat.bensky
>> *
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QR code

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

I spent some time on the partner section looking but I couldn’t find anything 
on QR codes. Does anything exist to produce these things?

Thanks in advance,


Paul
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Re: Saved query files (.4df) and changes from v12 to v15 - automated conversion?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Wow!

It’s great having a benevolent resident genius here!

Thanks Miyako.


Paul


> Le 7 mars 2017 à 08:10, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Thank you Arnaud your code gave me the needed inspiration :)
> 
> https://github.com/miyako/4d-component-classic-query-editor/
> 
> 2017/03/07 5:42、Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> I just translated some comments, and, again, I never ended the job. HTH…
> 
> 
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Re: Saved query files (.4df) and changes from v12 to v15 - automated conversion?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

You missed my point on your point ;-)

You can offer all of that without giving the user access to that in case you 
DON’T want them to have it. For example, you could create a set via a query, 
then give your users access to ONLY query the selection, or whatever. You don’t 
need that new 4D weird editor to do that.

In a complex application it is normal to have to do a little extra coding. For 
example, we have a multi-company accounting system. When a user connects to one 
company we want to shield him from inadvertently access data from another 
company. So no matter what query he does, we will narrow the selection 
programmatically to exclude data we don’t want displayed.

The nice thing about Miyako’s component is you can customize it to do these 
types of things, whereas 4D’s new query editor doesn’t leave you any choice.


Cheers,


Paul


> Le 7 mars 2017 à 16:59, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> You missed my point. Let's say I have a db where users can only see only
> certain regions of data. So You code that when you launch the process for
> them, their all records actually shows a subset. In the old quest editor if
> you had a command query selection that is all the user could do. In the new
> query editor, the user can switch to create a new selection, into a set etc.
> 
> Thus you as a developer must add extra code every time they do a query,
> where in previous versions you did not
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chuck

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Re: Saved query files (.4df) and changes from v12 to v15 - automated conversion?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Chuck,

As a developer I’ve already offered the functionality to query in the 
selection, join to the existing selection or use a query result to exclude from 
the selection.

> Le 6 mars 2017 à 21:29, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:25 PM, truegold via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Our users have also found the new query dialog less intuitive. They
>> expressed that having to use popup buttons required extra steps. And
>> because some checkboxes are now hidden in the popup they forget about it.
>> And other more subtle things.
>> 
>> So for them it’s extra work!
>> 
>> And, yes, I agree some things are more intuitive but I still prefer the
>> “Classic” view myself.
>> 
>> So I have used Miyako's dialog and the clients are happier.
>> 
>> Not sure why 4D had to do away completely with a common editor that has
>> been used for many years. Couldn’t the have offered both?
>> 
>> Anyway, my thoughts.
>> 
> 
> One more thing the new query dialog allows user to control whether query
> selection or create new selection. Sometimes the developer needs those
> controls in place
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
> Informed Solutions, Inc.
> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>   Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Sever connectivity
>  http://www.informed-solutions.com
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Saved query files (.4df) and changes from v12 to v15 - automated conversion?

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We upgraded a database from v12 to v15 and we implemented Miyako’s classic 
query dialog (thank’s Miyako!). For a number of reasons we decided to shield 
our users from 4D’s new query dialog, which we find not intuitive.

Miyako's dialog works quite well but has just one drawback: it can’t open .4DF 
files created with v12. We can use the built-in 4D query dialog to open v12 
files and then save them in v15 format so they can be opened by Miyako’s 
dialog. I was hoping to find a way to do this in a batch process 
programmatically. Our users have hundreds of .4DF files to convert…

Any suggestions?


tia


Paul
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Re: v13 - 202 user processes on server, 1 client

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Just a few days ago we noticed something similar on a v12 4D Server. There were 
a number of “phantom” processes running, even though the clients had logged 
out. From what I could see, these were the server-side processes of methods 
with the attribute set to execute on the server. One of them was taking up a 
lot of CPU, which is how this drew my attention. 

I quickly advised all the users to log off and I restarted the server. I 
suspect 4D Server got into an unstable state and was preparing to crash. This 
is a 100gb database with 150+ users, so that’s never fun.

We’re preparing to jump to v15. I hope it’s at least as stable as v12, if not 
more so.


Paul




> Le 20 févr. 2017 à 17:52, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> various user side tasks/processes.
> 
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 08:43:24 -0800, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> Chip,
>> Did you note what they were doing?
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I was just looking at the server computer for another reason not
>>> related to 4D.
>>> The console window of 4D server was showing 202 user processes. There
>>> is/was 1 user connected, me.
>>> There were NO open user processes on the client side.
>>> I attempted to 'Abort' some of the processes - to no effect.
>>> I did not notice any performance issues(s).
>>> 
>>> I restarted the server, to return the system to a 'normal' state.
>>> 
>>> WTF is going on?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Chip
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Gas is for washing parts
>>> Alcohol is for drinkin'
>>> Nitromethane is for racing
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> San Francisco, CA
>> ===
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Re: 4D crash on macOS Sierra 10.12.4

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi Alberto,

I guess you mean the 10.12.4 public beta?

Paul

> Le 27 janv. 2017 à 13:39, Alberto Bachler  a écrit :
> 
> Hello
> 
> After the 10.12.4 was installed on my mac I cannot use 4D (v12, v13.6, v15R5, 
> v16) any longer.
> 4D crashed at the first keystroke.
> (cmd-o, cmd-n or typing your password if you open a database from your 
> favorites).
> 
> Anyone with macOS Sierra 10.2.4 seeing this behavior?
> 
> Alberto
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Re: strange error

[Paul Lovejoy]

Oh man!

That brings back memories of v11. We struggled with errors like that for a long 
time. Sometimes we’d get messages involving 4D’s internal code. We spent days 
doing error handler methods, logs and analysis of system logs. We never really 
understood why they were happening.

v11 definitely was improved with v12. We also fiddled around with the various 
database parameters involving timeouts. The number of errors was reduced 
significantly but they were never eliminated.

We are now working on moving from v12 to v15, having never totally solved to 
our satisfaction those “strange errors”.


Good luck to you,


Paul




> Le 26 janv. 2017 à 18:34, Chuck Miller  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi All,
> environment latest version of 4D version v11. I have code that occasionally 
> gets a lost connection error the line of code is read write(table)
> 
> anyone with any ideas what tis might really be. It is a method called as a 
> new process on client to keep it out of transaction
> 
> Thanks and regards
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
> Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
> mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
>  http://www.informed-solutions.com  
> 
> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
> law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended 
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> are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, 
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> other than the intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such 
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Move v12 to v15 or v16

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi,

We’ve been spending quite a bit of time preparing our 4D databases to move from 
v12 to v15. We originally had planned to transit via v13 but since we’re 100% 
Mac, we saw that numerous problems with recent Mac OS X versions are causing 
severe compatibility issues, ie crashes. So we’re skipping v13 and v14 to move 
directly to v15, although we did test heavily on v13 also. 

Recently I’ve seen a lot of activity surrounding v16 and one of my colleagues 
suggested skipping straight to v16. We have about 200 client connections and 
the databases are mission critical. The largest is about 100gb. My 30 years of 
experience with 4D tell me NOT to jump straight to v16. Does anyone have any 
reason to believe it’s worth taking the leap? Is v16 rock solid?


Cheers,


Paul
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Re: Audit Trails

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi Daniel,

I missed that thread. When was that? Recent?

Cheers,


Paul


> Le 9 janv. 2017 à 17:30, Daniel N. Solenthaler  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> thank you for your contributions regarding my question about Audit Trails.
> 
> Special Thanks to Pat Bensky for his generous offer.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> Daniel Nestor Solenthaler
> eMail: dan...@solenthaler.com
> 
> 
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[Off] Anyone in Spain?

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi,

Are any of you based in Spain? If so, I’d like to talk off list about 4D and 
opportunities in Spain.

Send me a private e-mail please.

tia


Paul
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Re: Quick Report -> Excel and accentuated characters v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Interesting!

It works. I never would have expected that.

Thanks Arnaud and Ortwin.

Happy new years.


> Le 29 déc. 2016 à 10:53, Ortwin Zillgen  a écrit :
> 
>> Has anyone found a work-around?
> 
> export to HTML. Excel will open just fine, including all accented characters, 
> even some of the css, if applied, does survive.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> O r t w i n  Z i l l g e n
> -
>    
>  
> member of developer-network 
> 
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Re: Quick Report -> Excel and accentuated characters v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi Arnaud,

I am opening the text file through the Excel import wizard. I’ve tried all the 
encoding types Excel has to offer. No luck.

If I open the text in Textwrangler, all I get is plain text with tab 
separators. There’s nothing like 

>  * text file * unicode UTF-8 with BOM * legacy MacOS (CRLF) *

Paul




> Le 28 déc. 2016 à 15:36, Arnaud de Montard  a écrit :
> 
> 
>> Le 28 déc. 2016 à 14:40, Paul Lovejoy  a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> We’ve been living for some time with the problem of saving Quick Reports as 
>> text files, then opening them with Microsoft Excel or Word on Mac OS X.
>> 
>> The DB is in unicode mode.
>> 
>> It seems there are no import options in Excel, in spite of dozens of choices 
>> including Unicode 6.3 UTF-8, which allow for a correct display of 
>> accentuated characters.
>> 
>> Using a character set in 4D has no impact on what 4D exports.
>> 
>> Has anyone found a work-around?
> 
> Hi Paul, 
> I don't use excel since a while, but I seem to remember that import dialog is 
> bypassed if the text file is dropped on excel, while using "File/open" menu 
> displays it. When this dialog is bypassed excel uses 
> most-of-the-time-stupid-default. 
> 
> How does the QR text file look like if you open it with TextWrangler? Here at 
> the bottom I get these:
>  * text file * unicode UTF-8 with BOM * legacy MacOS (CRLF) *
> 
> -- 
> Arnaud de Montard 
> 
> 
> 
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Quick Report -> Excel and accentuated characters v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi,

We’ve been living for some time with the problem of saving Quick Reports as 
text files, then opening them with Microsoft Excel or Word on Mac OS X.

The DB is in unicode mode.

It seems there are no import options in Excel, in spite of dozens of choices 
including Unicode 6.3 UTF-8, which allow for a correct display of accentuated 
characters.

Using a character set in 4D has no impact on what 4D exports.

Has anyone found a work-around?


Cheers,

Paul
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Re: Sierra 10.12.2 4D crash on new touch bar macbook pro - possible solution

[Paul Lovejoy]

I think Armin said that by executing those commands in terminal, he was able to 
work around the crashed AND have the touch bar active.


Paul

> Le 21 déc. 2016 à 16:03, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> a écrit :
> 
> Nice...
> pay a lot of money for a 'track bar' then turn it off...
> :(
> 
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:42:09 +0100, Armin Deeg wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> one of my customer had a problem with my 4D app (v12.6) on a new 
>> touchbar macbook pro.
>> 4D crashes after a few clicks.
>> 
>> latest Apple MacBookPro 13,3" with oled touch bar and Sierra macOS 
>> 10.12.2 (build 16C67)
>> 
>> 
>> Based on the hints from this page
>> http://indiestack.com/
>> 
>> I've tried this terminal command.
>> defaults write com.apple.systemuiserver NSFunctionBarAPIEnabled 
>> -bool NO
>> 
>> but the app crashed like before, then without any knowledge what I do
>> 
>> I paste also these lines inside the terminal
>> 
>> defaults write com.4D.4DRuntimeVolumeLicense NSFunctionBarAPIEnabled 
>> -bool NO
>> defaults write com.4d.kernel NSFunctionBarAPIEnabled -bool NO
>> defaults write com.apple.CoreFoundation NSFunctionBarAPIEnabled -bool NO
>> defaults write com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 
>> NSFunctionBarAPIEnabled -bool NO
>> 
>> and now it works also on a touch bar macbook pro
>> 
>> I don't know which of the commands cures the problem, if I need only 
>> one or all together, but now it works for the moment.
>> 
>> Regards Armin
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mit freundlichem Gruß
>> Armin Deeg
>> 
>> node Systemlösungen e.K.
>> Armin Deeg - Geschäftsführer -
>> Kantstr. 149, 10623 Berlin
>> Tel: +49-30-8936430, Fax: +49-30-8921904
>> Web: http://www.node.de eMail: mailto:d...@node.de
>> Registergericht Berlin-Charlottenburg HRA 39570 B
>> 
>> 
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Moving from v12 to v15, any tips on memory and network settings?

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi,

We’re moving a moderately large DB (210 tables, about 100gb of data, 150 
concurrent users, about 700 processes) from v12 to v15. It will run on Mac OS X 
(32 bit for now). All our licenses are on Mac but our server is an xServe from 
2011… Dual processor, 8 cores, 32gb RAM, SSD. Since Apple is building server 
hardware anymore, it would seem our only upgrade path would be moving to 
Windows, which we’re trying to avoid for as long as possible.

On v12 we have 1.5 gb of cache hard-wired. 

Does memory behave in a similar way on v15, or should I expect surprises?

As for the network settings, I’m referring to the database parameters.

What we do now, in the server startup method:

SET DATABASE PARAMETER(4D Server Timeout;2) 
SET DATABASE PARAMETER(4D Remote Mode Timeout;2)
SET DATABASE PARAMETER(Idle Connections Timeout;120)

I can’t even remember how we arrived at these settings. We spent a lot of time 
tweaking to avoid lost connections from remote clients over WAN.


Thanks for any tips.


Paul


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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

As a followup on this topic, I deactivated the propagation of the 1->N 
relations and the time to load the classic query dialog the first time became 
quite short. Thanks to the caching going on, the second time it loads for a 
table is instantaneous.

Thanks to Miyako for this component, which will save the day for a number of 
our “power” users.

Cheers and happy holidays


Paul


> Le 14 déc. 2016 à 01:21, Keisuke Miyako  a écrit :
> 
> maybe you noticed already,
> but this component offers a mode in which the editor stays open,
> and the user can run consecutive queries or query in selections,
> and go back/forward in history by a click of a button.
> (named selections are used internally to optimised speed)
> 
> there is also a developer mode which displays the query plan, path and JSON 
> definition.
> 
> 
> 宮古 啓介
> セールス・エンジニア
> 
> 株式会社フォーディー・ジャパン
> 〒150-0043
> 東京都渋谷区道玄坂1-10-2 渋谷THビル6F
> Tel: 03-6427-8441
> Fax: 03-6427-8449
> 
> keisuke.miy...@4d.com
> www.4D.com/JP
> 
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Re: Query editor in v15 - Specified Module Not Found

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi Miyako,

Yes, I think it would be interesting to be able to set the levels for 
propagating relations as well as being able to show only the 1->N relations.


Thanks for your time on this.


Paul


> Le 15 déc. 2016 à 03:42, Keisuke Miyako  a écrit :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> thank you for your comments.
> 
> I think it makes more sense to remove "Cache_CREATE_LIST" from the "Host 
> Startup" event. (done on GitHub).
> it is just an overkill, besides, you might want to set table/fields titles in 
> your startup code.
> 
> moving forward, do you think it would be useful to
> 
> a. limit the relations to n-levels deep
> b. limit the relations to "1" fields only
> 
> ?
> 
> the code does take care not to go back the "1" link when traversing "N" links,
> but there is currently nothing that prevents it from going round and round in 
> a circle.

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Re: Zipping a datafile - wow

[Paul Lovejoy]

I remember someone saying that disk space is cheap… That’s true. But if you 
have to move the files over subnets or over a WAN, the huge databases can be 
cumbersome. We have one that weighs in at about 100gb, included the index file. 
Making a copy of it and moving it around takes some time, as does compressing 
and de-compressing.


Paul


> Le 12 déc. 2016 à 01:34, Sujit Shah  a écrit :
> 
> Yes I have mentioned this before. 4D Data files seem to use a lot more
> space (almost 10 times) more than its zipped format.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 7:35 AM, Arnaud de Montard  wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> Le 11 déc. 2016 à 17:28, Kirk Brooks  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> I just had occasion to make a .zip of a v15 datafile. The database was
>>> stopped for some maintenance and I decided to grab a copy quick(ish)ly.
>> The
>>> uncompressed, freshly compacted, datafile is 4.5 gigs. The .zip file is
>> 375
>>> mb. That's a hell of a compression ratio. [...]
>> 
>> Knowing 4D stores data in 128 bytes blocks, whatever the field type is,
>> there could be lot of nothing in the 4dd.
>> I've never seen a good result when compressing a backup file already
>> compressed by 4D, I suppose the algorithm cannot work well in this
>> situation.
>> 7zip quite always gives smaller files than zipped ones and has various
>> compression options (fast, max, ultra…)
>> Example:
>> - 10Gb original 4dd
>> - 3,2Gb zipped
>> - 650Mb 7zipped
>> My preferred tool to "backup the backup"!
>> 
>> --
>> Arnaud de Montard
>> 
>> 
>> **
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Re: Query editor in v15 - Specified Module Not Found

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi everyone,

Sorry, I started the thread but I haven’t been able to look at this since 
Monday. On Monday we ran into problems with Miyako’s component because the 
“cache_CREATE_LIST"  process was using very high amounts of CPU and running for 
a very long time. I didn’t have time to investigate but I suspect there are 
circular relations somewhere in our database. This stopped me from moving 
forward. It’s also probably why the initial opening of the query dialog takes 
so long for us.

When I get a chance to look at it again in more depth I’ll let you know.

In the meantime, thanks to Miyako for putting this out there.


Paul



 
> Le 14 déc. 2016 à 00:39, Keisuke Miyako  a écrit :
> 
> the Components folder contains an alias (mac) to the 4DB,
> maybe you didn't copy the actual 4DB to your Components folder?
> 
>> "The specified module could not be found"
> 
> 
> 
> 宮古 啓介
> セールス・エンジニア
> 
> 株式会社フォーディー・ジャパン
> 〒150-0043
> 東京都渋谷区道玄坂1-10-2 渋谷THビル6F
> Tel: 03-6427-8441
> Fax: 03-6427-8449
> 
> keisuke.miy...@4d.com
> www.4D.com/JP
> 
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

If Guy sends maple syrup, I’ll send some Swiss cheese.


Paul


> Le 10 déc. 2016 à 01:41, Guy Algot  a écrit :
> 
> We want it here in Canada! Just tell me where to send the maple syrup...
> 
>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 3:49 PM, truegold  wrote:
>> 
>> HI Miyako,
>> 
>>> it could be optimised by some caching mechanism I guess...
>>> I could work on it if you really need it.
>> 
>> I second Paul’s request! And who told you that it was not needed outside of 
>> Japan?
>> 
>> My client absolutely HATES the new query editor.
>> 
>> Thank you for creating this component mirroring the look and feel of the 
>> classic query editor. This should go a long way to alleviating her stress.
>> 
>> Much appreciated,
>> John…
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 13:57, Keisuke Miyako  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> the editor follows all relations from all fields for any depth,
>>> not just "1" relations as in the classic editor,
>>> but also "n" relations too,
>>> since QUERY is optimised for n fields since v11.
>>> 
>>> it could be optimised by some caching mechanism I guess...
>>> I could work on it if you really need it. (I was told that there is little 
>>> need for it outside of Japan)
>> 
> 
> 
> Later,
> Guy
> 
> --
> Guy Algot, Solutions Specialist
> Edmonton, Alberta
> (780) 974-8538
> 
> hardware, installation, training, support, programming, internet
> specializing in 4th Dimension
> =-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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> they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their programming."
>-- Simon Slavin
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Guy,

I’ve seen even the v12 searches do not work perfectly. Sometimes the comparison 
values don’t make it. I’ve had a crash while loading a two field query which I 
had just saved from v12.

Paul


> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 22:54, Guy Algot  a écrit :
> 
> Paul, watch out for searches saved from the editor in a version previous to 
> v12 and brought forward...

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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Luckily they didn’t get to the sort editor or the QR editor.


> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 19:50, Lee Hinde  a écrit :
> 
> 
> I just apologize and say it's not my fault. The change seemed gratuitous.
> I.e., I'm not clear what itch got scratched with that change.

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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Agreed!

(Chart is another story)

> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 15:36, Alan Chan  a écrit :
> 
> You are definitely misinformed. Any help in Query Editor and Chart would be 
> greatly helpful for migration to v15.
> 
> Alan Chan
> 
> 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> writes:
>> it could be optimised by some caching mechanism I guess...
>> I could work on it if you really need it. (I was told that there is little 
>> need for it outside of Japan)
> 
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Hi Miyako,

It would be a very useful feature for us to have such a tool.

I especially like the way you handle the one-to-many relationships. It’s much 
clearer than the old query editor, not to mention the new one in v14/v15 which 
I find akward.

What would that entail for you and for us?

Cheers,


Paul




> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 13:57, Keisuke Miyako  a écrit :
> 
> the editor follows all relations from all fields for any depth,
> not just "1" relations as in the classic editor,
> but also "n" relations too,
> since QUERY is optimised for n fields since v11.
> 
> it could be optimised by some caching mechanism I guess...
> I could work on it if you really need it. (I was told that there is little 
> need for it outside of Japan)

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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Maybe Miyako will have a fix for that. I’m assuming it’s the complexity of the 
structure but I may be wrong.


Paul



> Le 09 Dec 2016 à 13:06, Alan Chan  a écrit :
> 
> Aruh  we have 204 tables:-(
> 
> Alan Chan
> 
> 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> writes:
>> Miyako has done a great job here.
>> 
>> However, it takes about 10 seconds for the dialog to open. I suppose it’s 
>> because we have about 220 tables and it’s taking the time to analyse the 
>> structure.
>> 
>> The results of the queries seem very well optimized.
> 
> 
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Thomas,

Yes, it was the SQL Joins which made the difference. Things ran fine in v11, 
v12 and v13 but the new query editor in v14/v15 really requires this option in 
order to run correctly.


Thanks,


Paul




> Le 09 Dec 2016 à 12:35, Thomas Maul  a écrit :
> 
>> Query([Invoices];[Clients]City=“Los Angeles”) in the query editor
>> will be run sequentially, even if there’s an automatic relation between the 
>> two tables and even
>> if City is indexed. If you have hundreds of thousands, or millions of 
>> records, this is a killer.
> 
> Your structure is from v2004 or older?
> In our v11 update trainings we said "first thing to do, is to open 
> compatibility and check the first 3 check boxes".
> I assume you still have them disabled? You lost a lot of power in the last 
> years...
> The new Query editor is internally using QUERY BY FORMULA. Everything is done 
> with formula.
> If that is slow for you, my guess is that you have disabled the high 
> performance features introduced with v11...
> 
> 
> 4D Deutschland GmbH
> Geschäftsführer Laurent Ribardière Telefon: +49-89-856 33 43-0
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

We have always have the first two checked. However, not the third involving SQL 
joins.

I’ll check that one too and try again.

Thanks,

Paul


> Le 09 Dec 2016 à 12:35, Thomas Maul  a écrit :
> 
>> Query([Invoices];[Clients]City=“Los Angeles”) in the query editor
>> will be run sequentially, even if there’s an automatic relation between the 
>> two tables and even
>> if City is indexed. If you have hundreds of thousands, or millions of 
>> records, this is a killer.
> 
> Your structure is from v2004 or older?
> In our v11 update trainings we said "first thing to do, is to open 
> compatibility and check the first 3 check boxes".
> I assume you still have them disabled? You lost a lot of power in the last 
> years...
> The new Query editor is internally using QUERY BY FORMULA. Everything is done 
> with formula.
> If that is slow for you, my guess is that you have disabled the high 
> performance features introduced with v11...
> 
> 
> 4D Deutschland GmbH
> Geschäftsführer Laurent Ribardière Telefon: +49-89-856 33 43-0
> Amtsgericht München HRB 92258  Fax: +49-89-856 33 43-99
> Obere Hauptstrasse 2   E-Mail:  thomas.m...@4d.com
> 85386 Eching - Deutschland Web: www.4D.com
> 
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Paul Lovejoy]

Miyako has done a great job here.

However, it takes about 10 seconds for the dialog to open. I suppose it’s 
because we have about 220 tables and it’s taking the time to analyse the 
structure.

The results of the queries seem very well optimized.


Paul



> Le 09 Dec 2016 à 12:18, Alan Chan  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Please let us know how it works. I love its localization.
> 
> Thanks to another great work from Miyako that ease migration to v15.
> 
> Alan Chan
> 
> 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> writes:
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> I’ll look at that!
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>>> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 12:03, Keisuke Miyako  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> if you prefer classic:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/miyako/4d-component-classic-query-editor
>>> 
>>>> 2016/12/09 19:02、Paul Lovejoy  のメール：
>>>> We let our users have access to the standard 4D query editor. The one in 
>>>> v14/v15 is radically different and I find it quite hard to use.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 宮古 啓介
>>> セールス・エンジニア
>>> 
>>> 株式会社フォーディー・ジャパン
>>> 〒150-0043
>>> 東京都渋谷区道玄坂1-10-2 渋谷THビル6F
>>> Tel: 03-6427-8441
>>> Fax: 03-6427-8449
>>> 
>>> keisuke.miy...@4d.com
>>> www.4D.com/JP
>>> 
> 
> 
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