Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread D. Ryan Spott via Af

http://exchange.nagios.org/directory/Plugins/Hardware/UPS/APC/check_apc-2Epl/details

   In order to show output load in watts, the maximum power load
   wattage must be included in the check. This can be found on your UPS
   management page under the UPS tab and then About using the real
   power ratting shown.

Crazy detail here:
http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/SADE-5TNQYF/SADE-5TNQYF_R1_EN.pdf

ryan

On 10/28/14 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the 
management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they 
were somebody else's problem.


Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought 
was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low.  Second 
thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  
No matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to 
learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)





--
D. Ryan Spott | Iron Goat Networks, llc
broadband | telco | colo | community
PO Box 1232 / 603 W. Stevens Sultan, WA 98284
360-799-0552 | gtalk: rsp...@irongoat.net



Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Mark Radabaugh via Af

Be happy you don't go to school now.

The whole "online test and homework" thing is completely asinine in most 
implementations.


The kids spend more time trying to convince the computer that "A+B" is 
correct when the computer insists it's only correct as "B+A".


It's really nice when it's a test and 20% of the correct answers are 
marked wrong.


Most of the software is so poorly done it's ridiculous.  I have seen the 
kids spend 50% of their time manipulating correct answers to get the 
computer to accept them.


Mark


On 10/28/14, 11:35 AM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
I am still pissed at getting marked wrong on an exam in college.  
Freshman EE class.

The question was: What is Power Factor.
My answer: Cosine of the Phase Angle
I was right.  They were wrong.  I was robbed of some points.  Somebody 
has to pay someday...

*From:* Mark Radabaugh via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"
For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF)

Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts
VA ratings are volts * amps

For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are 
talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a 
tangent here...).


The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage 
supplied.   If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no 
capacitors) then rising voltage and current track linearly.  Most AC 
loads are not purely resistive and the current may lag or lead the 
voltage - meaning the current rise lags behind what would be expected 
for the voltage applied.   The power factor (PF) is the ratio between 
the (expected) current and voltage and it's expressed as a number 
between -1 and 1.Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8


A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws:  Voltage: 120V,   
Current (500/120) = 4.16A


A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws: Voltage: 120V, 
Current (500/120/.8) = 5.21A


The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current 
from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more.


UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts 
since (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power 
factor of the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and 
looks better on the box.


You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the 
power factor of the computers you attach to them.   Better power 
supplies have better power factors.   They cost a little bit more but 
can save you money on your UPS.


Mark

On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote:
Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and 
real power rating in watts. Under status>ups, you should also see 
output voltage and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It 
also logs your usage in kWH as well.

Robbie Wright
Siuslaw Broadband <http://siuslawbroadband.com>
541-902-5101


--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex

m...@amplex.net   419.837.5015 x 1021



--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex

m...@amplex.net  419.837.5015 x 1021



Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread That One Guy via Af
yeah in an outdoor enclosure, unless you leave your windows open

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chuck McCown via Af  wrote:

>   Is that one winter in a non temperature controlled environment?  I
> would assume in an office environment they would be pretty stable.
>
>  *From:* That One Guy via Af 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:21 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"
>
>  I only use that number to know when we exceed 50% so we know we need to
> go to the next size UPS. I had a chart APC sent me once, basically once you
> hit 50% your run time cliffs. The cool thing about APC and their batteries
> is that none of the numbers matter after one winter, they do whatever they
> want even with recalibration
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Seth Mattinen via Af 
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/28/14, 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
>>
>>> This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the
>>> management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were
>>> somebody else's problem.
>>>
>>> Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought
>>> was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second
>>> thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No
>>> matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn
>>> by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That's a percentage of full load watts, adjusted for power factor, which
>> on APC should be .8 of the VA rating. The VA is a bigger number and thus
>> used for marketing. Nicer UPS systems will have variable PF and should
>> display that value, too. Real power vs. apparent power in non-linear loads,
>> so pretty much all computer equipment.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>
>
>
> --
> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>



-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925


Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread That One Guy via Af
thats how campus shootings start, somebody needs to get the FBI to chucks
house

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Chuck McCown via Af  wrote:

>   I am still pissed at getting marked wrong on an exam in college.
> Freshman EE class.
>
> The question was: What is Power Factor.
> My answer: Cosine of the Phase Angle
>
> I was right.  They were wrong.  I was robbed of some points.  Somebody has
> to pay someday...
>
>  *From:* Mark Radabaugh via Af 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:32 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"
>
>  For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF)
>
> Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts
> VA ratings are volts * amps
>
> For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are
> talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a tangent
> here...).
>
> The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied.
> If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then rising
> voltage and current track linearly.  Most AC loads are not purely resistive
> and the current may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the current rise lags
> behind what would be expected for the voltage applied.   The power factor
> (PF) is the ratio between the (expected) current and voltage and it's
> expressed as a number between -1 and 1.Old switching power supplies
> have a PF around .8
>
> A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws:  Voltage: 120V,   Current
> (500/120) = 4.16A
>
> A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws:  Voltage: 120V, Current
> (500/120/.8) = 5.21A
>
> The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current
> from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more.
>
> UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts since
> (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power factor of
> the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and looks better
> on the box.
>
> You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the power
> factor of the computers you attach to them.   Better power supplies have
> better power factors.   They cost a little bit more but can save you money
> on your UPS.
>
> Mark
>
> On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote:
>
> Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real
> power rating in watts. Under status>ups, you should also see output voltage
> and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage
> in kWH as well.
>
>
> Robbie Wright
> Siuslaw Broadband <http://siuslawbroadband.com>
> 541-902-5101
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Radabaugh
> Amplex
> m...@amplex.net  419.837.5015 x 1021
>
>


-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925


Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Chuck McCown via Af
I am still pissed at getting marked wrong on an exam in college.  Freshman EE 
class.   

The question was: What is Power Factor.
My answer: Cosine of the Phase Angle

I was right.  They were wrong.  I was robbed of some points.  Somebody has to 
pay someday...

From: Mark Radabaugh via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF)

Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts
VA ratings are volts * amps 

For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are talking 
supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a tangent here...).

The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied.   If the 
load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then rising voltage and 
current track linearly.  Most AC loads are not purely resistive and the current 
may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the current rise lags behind what would 
be expected for the voltage applied.   The power factor (PF) is the ratio 
between the (expected) current and voltage and it's expressed as a number 
between -1 and 1.Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8

A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws:  Voltage: 120V,   Current 
(500/120) = 4.16A

A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws:  Voltage: 120V, Current 
(500/120/.8) = 5.21A

The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current from the 
UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more.

UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts since (take 
your pick here...) they don't have control over the power factor of the 
equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and looks better on the 
box.

You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the power 
factor of the computers you attach to them.   Better power supplies have better 
power factors.   They cost a little bit more but can save you money on your UPS.

Mark

On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote:

  Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real 
power rating in watts. Under status>ups, you should also see output voltage and 
amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage in kWH as 
well. 


  Robbie Wright
  Siuslaw Broadband
  541-902-5101



-- 
Mark Radabaugh 
Amplex

m...@amplex.net  419.837.5015 x 1021

Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Mark Radabaugh via Af

For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF)

Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts
VA ratings are volts * amps

For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are 
talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a 
tangent here...).


The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied.   
If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then 
rising voltage and current track linearly.  Most AC loads are not purely 
resistive and the current may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the 
current rise lags behind what would be expected for the voltage 
applied.   The power factor (PF) is the ratio between the (expected) 
current and voltage and it's expressed as a number between -1 and 1.
Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8


A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws:  Voltage: 120V, Current 
(500/120) = 4.16A


A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws:  Voltage: 120V, 
Current (500/120/.8) = 5.21A


The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current 
from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more.


UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts 
since (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power 
factor of the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and 
looks better on the box.


You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the 
power factor of the computers you attach to them.   Better power 
supplies have better power factors.   They cost a little bit more but 
can save you money on your UPS.


Mark

On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote:
Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and 
real power rating in watts. Under status>ups, you should also see 
output voltage and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It 
also logs your usage in kWH as well.



Robbie Wright
Siuslaw Broadband 
541-902-5101



--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex

m...@amplex.net  419.837.5015 x 1021



Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Chuck McCown via Af
Is that one winter in a non temperature controlled environment?  I would assume 
in an office environment they would be pretty stable.  

From: That One Guy via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

I only use that number to know when we exceed 50% so we know we need to go to 
the next size UPS. I had a chart APC sent me once, basically once you hit 50% 
your run time cliffs. The cool thing about APC and their batteries is that none 
of the numbers matter after one winter, they do whatever they want even with 
recalibration

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Seth Mattinen via Af  wrote:

  On 10/28/14, 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the
management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were
somebody else's problem.

Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought
was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second
thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No
matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn
by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)





  That's a percentage of full load watts, adjusted for power factor, which on 
APC should be .8 of the VA rating. The VA is a bigger number and thus used for 
marketing. Nicer UPS systems will have variable PF and should display that 
value, too. Real power vs. apparent power in non-linear loads, so pretty much 
all computer equipment.

  ~Seth





-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- 
IBM maintenance manual, 1925


Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread That One Guy via Af
I only use that number to know when we exceed 50% so we know we need to go
to the next size UPS. I had a chart APC sent me once, basically once you
hit 50% your run time cliffs. The cool thing about APC and their batteries
is that none of the numbers matter after one winter, they do whatever they
want even with recalibration

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Seth Mattinen via Af  wrote:

> On 10/28/14, 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
>
>> This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the
>> management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were
>> somebody else's problem.
>>
>> Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought
>> was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second
>> thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No
>> matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn
>> by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)
>>
>>
>>
>
> That's a percentage of full load watts, adjusted for power factor, which
> on APC should be .8 of the VA rating. The VA is a bigger number and thus
> used for marketing. Nicer UPS systems will have variable PF and should
> display that value, too. Real power vs. apparent power in non-linear loads,
> so pretty much all computer equipment.
>
> ~Seth
>



-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925


Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Seth Mattinen via Af

On 10/28/14, 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the
management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were
somebody else's problem.

Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought
was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second
thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No
matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn
by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)





That's a percentage of full load watts, adjusted for power factor, which 
on APC should be .8 of the VA rating. The VA is a bigger number and thus 
used for marketing. Nicer UPS systems will have variable PF and should 
display that value, too. Real power vs. apparent power in non-linear 
loads, so pretty much all computer equipment.


~Seth


Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Adam Moffett via Af


It had just dischargedfully charged it ran for 40 minutes.

I wonder if 10 minutes of runtime remaining with a 10% load means the 
thing can run a full load for 1 minute?




Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Chuck McCown via Af
I wonder if 10 minutes of runtime remaining with a 10% load means the thing can 
run a full load for 1 minute?

From: Adam Moffett via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:31 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the management page 
on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were somebody else's 
problem.

Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought was maybe 
the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low.  Second thought was maybe it's 
10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No matter what it makes no sense. 
 Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn by reading this? (other than the 
programmer failed English)


 

Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Adam Moffett via Af


Yeah I guess it might be right.  The CCR draws more than I expected.  
Close to 60 Watts for that one item.


Without knowing what is on it 10.4% of a 1500VA UPS is 156W.   Seems 
reasonable enough for a single computer or small site.


Mark

On 10/28/14, 10:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the 
management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they 
were somebody else's problem.


Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought 
was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low.  Second 
thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  
No matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to 
learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)






--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex

m...@amplex.net   419.837.5015 x 1021




Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Robbie Wright via Af
Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real
power rating in watts. Under status>ups, you should also see output voltage
and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage
in kWH as well.


Robbie Wright
Siuslaw Broadband 
541-902-5101

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af  wrote:

>  This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the
> management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were
> somebody else's problem.
>
> Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought was
> maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low.  Second thought was
> maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No matter what it
> makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn by reading this?
> (other than the programmer failed English)
>
>
>


Re: [AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Mark Radabaugh via Af
Without knowing what is on it 10.4% of a 1500VA UPS is 156W.   Seems 
reasonable enough for a single computer or small site.


Mark

On 10/28/14, 10:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the 
management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they 
were somebody else's problem.


Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought 
was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low.  Second 
thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  
No matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to 
learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)






--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex

m...@amplex.net  419.837.5015 x 1021



[AFMUG] APC "load in watts"

2014-10-28 Thread Adam Moffett via Af
This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the 
management page on one of the APC's here.  I had been thinking they were 
somebody else's problem.


Why do I see "Load in Watts" with a value of 10.4%?  My first thought 
was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second 
thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high.  No 
matter what it makes no sense.  Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn 
by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)