[AsburyPark] Re: mortgage &/or tax foreclosed property

[Skip Bernstein]

"I've been juxtaposing the issue of affordable homes, particularly for
young families, against the issue of open space legislation.  Right
now open space initiatives have no natural predator.  Now land is
finite, so when you take so much off the market, you drive up the
price of what is left. Right now young families tell me they just
can't afford to buy a house here."

Land is indeed finite, human procreation knows no limit, humans have
no predator, possess an infinite capacity to reproduce and consume
till our numbers exhaust habitat, resources or crash due to stress and
disease, resulting from the crush of our numbers.  

Driving up the price of finite resources is one of the few ways to
wean us from a lifestyle, which is killing us.  

You may find a world devoid of any life forms other than human
desirable; I believe most of us find the prospect hell on earth.






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[oakdorf]

Interesting negotiation today that we are involved in. A $13m deal.

A national developer we approached to flip a property to. The 
seller, a foreign investor, the buyer for the developer, by 
coincindence, from the same country, same last name.

Buyer made offer.
Seller politely laughed.
I said nothing.

The bs'd for a while.
We went to perkins.
Seller offered the buyer a job in his country, as he was impressed 
with the buyer's experience.

He told her - "how long can this job last - there is only so much 
land in this county..."

Point: All your negotiating skills are easily removed - when the 
parties have either common ties or big $. Both witnessed today.

And I think the deal will go.):

PS...the developer, even before making the offer, had very 
impressive drawings and a game plan - time lines - from acquistion 
to last unit sold.








 
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[AsburyPark] Re: mortgage &/or tax foreclosed property

[oakdorf]

funny thing about age restricted communities - they really do not meet 
COAH guidelines. They are no longer "affordable" at over 300k per.

It's an avenue for developers to squeeze a few more units in per acre 
and/or build cheaper.





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: mortgage &/or tax foreclosed property

[jerseyjohn99]

BB,

I'm confused. Let's say a farmer in Marlboro wants to monetize his 
apple orchard to cover his estate taxes for his children. How does 
selling it to a developer to build 5,000 sq ft McMansions benefit a 
younger family trying to buy their first home?

One of my childhood friends is a farmer's daughter down in Vineland. 
He's forced to sell his 140 acre homestead to developers building an 
age-restricted community. I told him about the Monmouth County Open 
Space program. He would love to keep it open space, even at a 
discount, but Cumberland County has no such program and he doesn't 
want a distress sale of the farm after he's gone.  

I'd love to see an end to towns selling their COAH credits, and remove 
age-restricted developments from qualifying for those credits. That 
would do more to providing affordable housing than limiting the Open 
Spaces program. 

Good luck in your pursuit! It would be nice to have another honest guy 
in county government.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> I've been juxtaposing the issue of affordable homes, particularly 
> for young families, against the issue of open space legislation.
> 
> Right now open space initiatives have no natural predator.  If one 
> is on the ballot, everybody, Dems, Rupubs, Greens, etc. are all for 
> it.
> 
> Colts Neck just perserved 800 acres.  Howell 250 with 1000 more 
> coming. Marlboro, etc. also. The County is currently trying to 
> preserve 20,000 acres!






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance - a no-brainer

[Skip Bernstein]

"I agree with you're post here, when you have two parties trying to
get to the same end, ie the property owner wants to sell and the buyer
wants to buy. They have the same goal, the only issue is price. Those
are the easy ones.  I think that parts of the Beachfront negotiations,
unfortunately, might be more like those tough ones."

If these negotiations haven't "two parties trying to get to the same
end", it's high time council advise Larry he's no longer welcome at
the dance.  

It's The Fishman who has failed to live up to his responsibilities,
Asbury no longer, if ever, needs him and it is well past time that
council put him on notice that they are now prepared to develop the
waterfront, with or without him.  

These negotiations are about as simple as you'll find, the outcome is
a no-brainer.







 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[bluebishop82]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Bernstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Nobody accepts a first offer."
> 
> There are no universals; a seller who knows the value of his 
property,
> is motivated to sell and/or understands clearly and accepts the
> rational of an offer will often accept a first offer.  


Skip I agree with you're post here, when you have two parties trying 
to get to the same end, ie the property owner wants to sell and the 
buyer wants to buy. They have the same goal, the only issue is 
price. Those are the easy ones.

Most of the cases I'm involved with are very different.  The 
defendants in my cases don't want to be in the transaction at all, 
let alone come up with a price.  We don't even share the same 
ultimate goal.  Those are the tough ones.

I think that parts of the Beachfront negotiations, unfortunately, 
might be more like those tough ones.  Hope I'm wrong.






 
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[AsburyPark] Friday NJEDA Update

[jerseykev]

Things you should be aware of...
 
 
STATEWIDE MEETING PLANNED.
Just a reminder that Tomorrow those interested in fighting against eminent 
domain for private gain (EDA - Eminent Domain Abuse) are encourage to attend a 
meeting of like minded people at Princeton University.
 
For info and direction you can go to www.njeminentdomainabuse.com and 
click on the button MEETINGS.
 
PRAYER SUPPORT:
Rev. Kevin Brown has arranged for a place in Eatontown, New Jersey... 
centrally located in the State - Tuesdays at 1 - 2 PM he will be holding a 
weekly Prayer Support Group of Faith Based activists in this matter.  If 
you are interested contact him directly at 732.222.6224. All would be welcome 
regardless of Faith or lack there of.
 
MEDIA ATTENTION
Hannity & Colmes of the Fox News Network which airs at 9 PM est will be 
doing a piece on eminent domain abuse in New Jersey.  A few of the property 
owners in the residencial area threatened by Beach Front North Phase 2 - 
(Applied Group of Hoboken/Matzel Mumford) will be on the show with them.
 
Tune in 
 
May God Protect New Jersey Property
 
Rev. Kevin Brown
Lighthouse Christian Center
162 Broadway
Long Branch, NJ 07740
732.222.6224
www.njeminentdomainabuse.com 

www.lbtv.net The Long Branch Televised 
Network
 




  
  
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[Skip Bernstein]

"Nobody accepts a first offer."

There are no universals; a seller who knows the value of his property,
is motivated to sell and/or understands clearly and accepts the
rational of an offer will often accept a first offer.  

The chance of this happening lessens if the buyer's negotiator is
unable to resist the strategy you describe.






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[Skip Bernstein]

"Negotiations are a psychological chess match.  You don't just walk in
and lay what you want on the table. Nobody accepts a first offer. You
practically hide what you want and ask for a great deal "more" and a
great deal "other" than what you want.  You let the adversary peel off
a bunch of irrelevancy. Both sides already know this; it isn't a
secret that both are going to do it.  It turns into a lengthy dance
while trying to figure exactly where the other guy is really willing
to make a deal.  When experts do it, the concessions come slowly and
painfully."

And sometimes they're not; what you describe above are games played
out by egotists, amateurs or people for whom beating the other guy,
even at the risk of not achieving your own ends, is paramount.  

>From all accounts, this is precisely the scenario of The Fishman, for
whom the concept of enough is unknown and one of the primary reasons
he can't lease the boardwalk, sign sub developers or retain personnel.







 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[dfsavgny]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I understand everyone's desire for the negotiations to be in 
public, 
> and there is a part of the me that would love to watch too.
>

If not watch it then at least have reports of what has been proposed 
by city and the response by Partners. Right now we have no idea of 
what they asked for. And to echo your refrain, they should have 
declared DEFAULT and the negotiations would be in an entirely 
different light.

This is an exercise in futility. I will be surprised if Partners 
ever comes up with financial guarantees to rehabilitate the 
boardwalk buildings. That is $50-$75 million, so even in phases, 
they have to have tens of millions in letters of credit or 
performance bonds we can pull. They have no intention of doing that 
and I suspect that the city will back off, which will make the whole 
agreement worthless.

Partners would probably like to give the boardwalk buildings back in 
return for their purchase prices but the city won't let them get 
away with it (initially that's what I heard). Partners can;t even 
pay Verizon for the infrastructure let alone do the boardwalk. We 
are wasting time. Bite the bullet and start the litigation. The have 
the solution - No lawfully adopted WRP except 1991. Solves 
everything, less condemnation, C-8/Metro okay, and get to rewrite 
everything. They don;t know good advice when they hear it. The 
inexperienced being misled.






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[oakdorf]

I think you forget, negotiations ended when the deal was signed by both 
parties, thus creating a valid contract. As you say, was blessed by 
christie.

If no subdevlopers what to work with you, as the MASTER developer, then 
they (Partners) need to pick up the phone and start their own 
negotiations - with other investors, not the city. The city is a 
partner by default.





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: SUV's

[oakdorf]

I think everyone's point is someone should be a bit mindful of the 
spending - not just rubber stamping everything. A few grand/month adds 
up to quite a few kickballs. 

What piece of land on Memorial are you talking about- the NJ transit 
piece?





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: SUV's

[Fred]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
>
There good for giving out tickets, for the the boardwalk and downtown 
DPW crew but not much more. Jimmy Cooke used to drive one it used to 
lean to the left.



 Anyone remember the old Cushman's the cops used to ride in?  The 
> seemed pretty economical.  So is a motorcycle and we used to have 
that 
> too.
> 
> I know the argument is that they can't handle a high speed chase, but 
> how many of those do we really have?  They are a mighty small 
> percentage compared to the people who do pull over.
> 
> I say bring back the Cushman.
> 
> Here's a link:
> 
> http://www.cushmanco.com/pages/common/customVehicles.html#
>







 
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[AsburyPark] SUV's

[bluebishop82]

Anyone remember the old Cushman's the cops used to ride in?  The 
seemed pretty economical.  So is a motorcycle and we used to have that 
too.

I know the argument is that they can't handle a high speed chase, but 
how many of those do we really have?  They are a mighty small 
percentage compared to the people who do pull over.

I say bring back the Cushman.

Here's a link:

http://www.cushmanco.com/pages/common/customVehicles.html#





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[bluebishop82]

I understand everyone's desire for the negotiations to be in public, 
and there is a part of the me that would love to watch too.

There is another side of the argument here. The nature of 
negotiations are such that it will lend itself to easy 
misinterpretation by someone watching, most notably the Press.

Negotiations are a psychological chess match.  You don't just walk 
in and lay what you want on the table. Nobody accepts a first offer. 
You practically hide what you want and ask for a great deal "more" 
and a great deal "other" than what you want.  You let the adversary 
peel off a bunch of irrelevancy.  He feels like he did a great job 
getting you to concede so much, but in the end you let him peel you 
down to exactly what you wanted to begin with.

Here's the kicker:  Both sides already know this; it isn't a secret 
that both are going to do it.  It turns into a lengthy dance while 
trying to figure exactly where the other guy is really willing to 
make a deal.  When experts do it, the concessions come slowly and 
painfully.  You try to wear the other guy down.

Imagine how badly a reporter could misinterpret that.  A guy asking 
for a great deal in the beginning (like he should) can easily be 
mistaken for a glutton.  A guy standing some ground for a tad too 
long (even if only he knows he will concede with one small 
compromise from the adversary) can easily be painted as 
an "obstructionist" in the press.  I guy conceding a bunch of 
irelevancies to secure an item he really wants can be mistaken as a 
push-over.

The next thing you know the negotiators are looking at the Press' 
false score card, and that can affect their game (just like an 
athlete).

I haven't yet decided to agree or disagree with anyone on this 
issue, I'm just pointing out there is another side to consider.





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[Skip Bernstein]

"The issue of having the negotiations behind closed doors is
Ludicrous. There is no rational or strategic reason for closing the
negotiations.  We have a right to know what is going on.  The signal
is loud and clear that it is the governing body's city and not ours.
While their attitude towards the public has improved, it is still not
what it should be."

Reason belies their stance; council seeks to debate and negotiate in
camera, in a futile attempt to avoid public embarrassment.  Were they
more confident in their capabilities, they would be more forthcoming
with the public.  

Their behavior is a curious but common defense mechanism, those who
are confident and knowledgeable understand that asking questions and
seeking expert advice shows strength, while the insecure attempt to
hide ignorance under the veils of secrecy. 






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[dfsavgny]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Apoojo is right Jerry.  We have a representative form of Democracy 
> in America, not a pure form.  It's worked pretty well for 225 
years.
>

I agree with Tommy and the others that we cannot vote on every 
issue, that would be chaotic. But Gerry brings up some good points. 
It is obvious that there is probably a lot of dead wood to prune in 
the city government, but that is typically the nature of 
municipalities.

As to the SUVs. I understand Reidy's explanation of those purchase 
for the PD. Obviously, since we are a beach community, te PD and FD 
should have one. I don't know why the city engineer would need one. 
For city vehicles, we should be buying the most inexpensive and 
economical vehicles. It is not like we have a lot of area to cover. 
No one should be bringing them home either. Let them use their own 
vehicles and reimburse them at the federal rate per mile with logs 
properly filed.

As to the pr persons and officials fawning over reporters, well, I 
guess the NYT got their attention.

The issue of having the negotiations behind closed doors is 
ludicrous. They did that 3-4 years ago and look what we got stuck 
with. There is no rational or strategic reason for closing the 
negotitations. The council would not even answer Maureen's question 
whether they would have signed the old RA again if they new there 
was a loophole (I understand your point Tom and I agree) citing that 
negotiations were ongoing. Those negotiations ended years ago. We 
have a right to know what is going on. The same holds true with 
bringing issues to be voted on from the executive session without 
being on the agenda. All of it shows an apparent disregard for open 
government. The signal is loud and clear that it is the governing 
body's city and not ours. While their attitude towards the public 
has improved, it is still not what it should be.







 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[Fred]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, gtscarano212@ wrote:
> >
> >
I won't respond to DOF(dirt on face)did his hero Keady vote no on 
anything Wed. night? 





 I stopped by AP City Hall today after what was talked about last 
> night at  
> > the council meeting.
> >  
> > 1. Why would the city officials even consider selling of some of 
> it's park  
> > land.
> > Does the state have any safe guards about selling or trading 
green 
> space  off 
> > without pubic bidding. What about the century old Brady  
> restrictions. Who 
> > really cares about R D R, not the best redeveloper in  town.
> >  
> > 2. Is anybody aware the city manager wants to buy  6 SUV's at 
> $23,000,00 each 
> > @ a total of $138,000.00. From  a dealer in the Morristown area. 
> The Fire 
> > dept gets 2, police get 2, and  the city engineer and building 
> inspector each get 
> > one. Would you agreed  SUV's are gas guzzlers and usually are the 
> most 
> > expensive to  repair than an average full size car. Was 
Morristown 
> the cheapest and  
> > closest place to purchase vehicles. Personally, I would shop  
> statewide, then 
> > hunt for a dealer close by to match the  contract.  
> > (The city manager has 2 sectaries and a public relation person. 
> It's no  
> > rumor that some city hall employees are complaining about the 
> staff  that got 
> > better pay raises than others this year. Who is busy on the  
> computer, looking for 
> > a new  home. I said, tell the city  manager.) 
> > Could some new SUV's be substituted with dealer's showroom  
demo's. 
> What 
> > happen to the Gas Company used vehicles  sold/gave the city a for 
a 
> $1.00 each. 
> > So for it's only a purchase order. Maybe it is the best deal? 
> Should  
> > taxpayers vote on it?
> >  
> I believe we did vote on it, it was called the election for 5 
> councilpersons, oh i forgot you were not happy with the landslide, 
> your question, should we vote on it, implys voting on any bill or 
> claim someone has a problem with. imagine the chaos this would 
cause, 
> at 10 thousand for every election your question would put the city 
> into bankruptcy quicker than any idea i ever heard of, my answer to 
> you would be no we should'nt vote on it.
>







 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[bluebishop82]

Apoojo is right Jerry.  We have a representative form of Democracy 
in America, not a pure form.  It's worked pretty well for 225 years.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, gtscarano212@ wrote:
> >
> > I stopped by AP City Hall today after what was talked about last 
> night at  
> > the council meeting.
> >  
> > 1. Why would the city officials even consider selling of some of 
> it's park  
> > land.
> > Does the state have any safe guards about selling or trading 
green 
> space  off 
> > without pubic bidding. What about the century old Brady  
> restrictions. Who 
> > really cares about R D R, not the best redeveloper in  town.
> >  
> > 2. Is anybody aware the city manager wants to buy  6 SUV's at 
> $23,000,00 each 
> > @ a total of $138,000.00. From  a dealer in the Morristown area. 
> The Fire 
> > dept gets 2, police get 2, and  the city engineer and building 
> inspector each get 
> > one. Would you agreed  SUV's are gas guzzlers and usually are 
the 
> most 
> > expensive to  repair than an average full size car. Was 
Morristown 
> the cheapest and  
> > closest place to purchase vehicles. Personally, I would shop  
> statewide, then 
> > hunt for a dealer close by to match the  contract.  
> > (The city manager has 2 sectaries and a public relation person. 
> It's no  
> > rumor that some city hall employees are complaining about the 
> staff  that got 
> > better pay raises than others this year. Who is busy on the  
> computer, looking for 
> > a new  home. I said, tell the city  manager.) 
> > Could some new SUV's be substituted with dealer's showroom  
demo's. 
> What 
> > happen to the Gas Company used vehicles  sold/gave the city a 
for a 
> $1.00 each. 
> > So for it's only a purchase order. Maybe it is the best deal? 
> Should  
> > taxpayers vote on it?
> >  
> I believe we did vote on it, it was called the election for 5 
> councilpersons, oh i forgot you were not happy with the landslide, 
> your question, should we vote on it, implys voting on any bill or 
> claim someone has a problem with. imagine the chaos this would 
cause, 
> at 10 thousand for every election your question would put the city 
> into bankruptcy quicker than any idea i ever heard of, my answer 
to 
> you would be no we should'nt vote on it.
>






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Officials needs your Guidance

[apoojo]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I stopped by AP City Hall today after what was talked about last 
night at  
> the council meeting.
>  
> 1. Why would the city officials even consider selling of some of 
it's park  
> land.
> Does the state have any safe guards about selling or trading green 
space  off 
> without pubic bidding. What about the century old Brady  
restrictions. Who 
> really cares about R D R, not the best redeveloper in  town.
>  
> 2. Is anybody aware the city manager wants to buy  6 SUV's at 
$23,000,00 each 
> @ a total of $138,000.00. From  a dealer in the Morristown area. 
The Fire 
> dept gets 2, police get 2, and  the city engineer and building 
inspector each get 
> one. Would you agreed  SUV's are gas guzzlers and usually are the 
most 
> expensive to  repair than an average full size car. Was Morristown 
the cheapest and  
> closest place to purchase vehicles. Personally, I would shop  
statewide, then 
> hunt for a dealer close by to match the  contract.  
> (The city manager has 2 sectaries and a public relation person. 
It's no  
> rumor that some city hall employees are complaining about the 
staff  that got 
> better pay raises than others this year. Who is busy on the  
computer, looking for 
> a new  home. I said, tell the city  manager.) 
> Could some new SUV's be substituted with dealer's showroom  demo's. 
What 
> happen to the Gas Company used vehicles  sold/gave the city a for a 
$1.00 each. 
> So for it's only a purchase order. Maybe it is the best deal? 
Should  
> taxpayers vote on it?
>  
I believe we did vote on it, it was called the election for 5 
councilpersons, oh i forgot you were not happy with the landslide, 
your question, should we vote on it, implys voting on any bill or 
claim someone has a problem with. imagine the chaos this would cause, 
at 10 thousand for every election your question would put the city 
into bankruptcy quicker than any idea i ever heard of, my answer to 
you would be no we should'nt vote on it.





 
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Re: [AsburyPark] City Officials needs your Guidance

[Joe D'Andrea]

Jerry... you have dirt on your face.

At 11:41 PM -0500 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I stopped by AP City Hall today after what was talked about last night at the 
>council meeting.
> 
>1. Why would the city officials even consider selling of some of it's park 
>land.
>Does the state have any safe guards about selling or trading green space off 
>without pubic bidding. What about the century old Brady restrictions. Who 
>really cares about R D R, not the best redeveloper in town.
> 
>2. Is anybody aware the city manager wants to buy 6 SUV's at $23,000,00 each @ 
>a total of $138,000.00. From a dealer in the Morristown area. The Fire dept 
>gets 2, police get 2, and the city engineer and building inspector each get 
>one. Would you agreed SUV's are gas guzzlers and usually are the most 
>expensive to repair than an average full size car. Was Morristown the cheapest 
>and closest place to purchase vehicles. Personally, I would shop statewide, 
>then hunt for a dealer close by to match the contract. 
>(The city manager has 2 sectaries and a public relation person. It's no rumor 
>that some city hall employees are complaining about the staff that got better 
>pay raises than others this year. Who is busy on the computer, looking for a 
>new  home. I said, tell the city manager.)
>Could some new SUV's be substituted with dealer's showroom demo's. What happen 
>to the Gas Company used vehicles sold/gave the city a for a $1.00 each.
>So for it's only a purchase order. Maybe it is the best deal? Should taxpayers 
>vote on it?
> 
>3. Should a small parcel of land on Memorial  Drive, by the train station, be 
>sold to the Highest bidder before the transit village report is presented to 
>the city? Something about a clear title problem, that works for AP this time.
> 
>4. Should the talks between the Partners and the city officials be blocked 
>from the public.
>( could not download the AP article about the meeting last night. )
> 
>5. A  lot of reporters where at the council meeting last night. The city pubic 
>relations lady could not fall over one of the reporters fast enough. I mean 
>stalk. Phony smiles. Is her gig worth $60.000.00? Remember Gail O'Reilly gig?
> 
>For the first time,last night, it looks like the ice between Loffredo & Keady 
>could be melting. Maybe the election scares will finally fade away. A good 
>thing. 
>
>
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