Re: [AsburyPark] Neglect

[firemer]

Speaking of the Convention Hall, how about all the cracked tiles on the floor 
of the Hall?  It really debases the aesthetic quality of the building.  




-Original Message-
From: arcman210 
To: AsburyPark 
Sent: Fri, Jan 20, 2012 9:15 pm
Subject: [AsburyPark] Neglect

  With all the positive things going on and a seemingly successful business 
model in place on the boardwalk, the issue of neglect somehow still haunts the 
beautiful waterfront treasures of Asbury Park. Enough neglect will ultimately 
cause the demise of a building. We've seen it with the Casino, the Charms 
Building, and now the Band Shell is the latest casualty. 

What about Convention Hall? What ever happened to the copper ornamentation 
below the second floor windows? Been missing for over a year now. That 
ornamentation also serves as a flashing which prevents water damage to the 
structure itself. And the more time it's off, the worse off for the structure. 

In no way am I saying that Convention Hall is being left to rot away 
intentionally, but it's pretty evident that restoration work has come to a 
hault on the building for quite some time. Is there any knowledge of where the 
copper ornamentation has vanished off to, or why it's gone in the first place? 







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Re: [AsburyPark] Homeless Shelter

[firemer]

Just an observation.? Since the closing of the shelter in Asbury Park, I 
have?observed the following:

Much less panhandling in the streets
Fewer acts of vandalism
Cleaner streets
Less men loitering during the day and night

After many years, Asbury is finally on the upgrade and is getting the respect 
that it deserves.? Why then do we feel the obligation to service the entire 
county with a shelter???Let us find and create jobs for our own townspeople who 
are most in need.


-Original Message-
From: evosap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 9:57 am
Subject: [AsburyPark] Homeless Shelter






i wanted to share some incomplete thoughts on the homeless shelter
drama. i initially strongly supported it. it is less important to
me now for a variety of reasons, i am neither for or against it. 
recently, i heard the best argument against the shelter that i never
heard put forth by the sufa saddies which is interesting...more on
that later.

i still think the behavior of the sufa tribe is an example of some of
the pretty ugliest human maneuverings i have ever witnessed up close.
in my perception there was a ton of lies, manipulation and fear
mongering. not surprising, we live in a culture of lies, manipulation
and fear mongering, to commit yourself to living outside of it makes
you a weirdo. id like to point out a few:

the pedophile thing...first of all when i started hearing the peddie
scare tactic posted on homeless men i had a flashback to another time
when some other ignorant people i was around thought a group was
automatically prone to pedophilia. the group then was gay men. i
think that is interesting. 2. any child that is not old enough and
has not been adequately prepared for the creeps among us, should never
be out of site of a responsible adult. they are YOUR kids, its your
responsibility to protect themthis isn't nuclear war. 3. anyone
who knows anything about child abuse knows that most cases involve a
perp close to the family or a trusted authority. 4. if you have
investigated the whole sexual offender list joke, you will quickly
realize that (big surprise) its not flawless. Human Rights Watch has
a report on it.

I pray the day comes when people fear the effects of mysterious
chemicals, lies by our leaders, the emf haze we live under and
corporate prying into our private lives the way the sufa saddies fear
fucked up men...oh wait fucked up men are largely responsible for the
less visible threats too ;) (as well as the women who enable them)

the Jesus thing...yeah, christinas are creepy sometimes. they also
tend to believe in service to other beings. the thing that annoys me
is that i truly believe that Jesus (the first soul shaking love of my
life) would never want anyone to evangelise in his name. Jesus knew
he was teaching only ONE path to god. the paths are pretty much
infinite and they never include bombs (whether those bombs are
detonated on us soldiers or women's clinics). they also never include
the hatred and fear of poor people in need of care. anyone i have
ever known to be uncomfortable around poor, homeless or other socially
outcast human, was a sad, fearful person. they lived in fear of not
being socially mainstream and followed every socially constructed
rule. these are sad people indeed. and all their fears are projected
on those they see as less than them self. BTW being gay doesn't
automatically put you on the cutting edge unless you are hanging our
with a white suburban breeder wife...some of the most conformist
people i meet in ap are gay.

i personally visited the morristown shelter and was pretty impressed
with their (yes christian) program. it was also repeatedly expressed
to me that they would never try to convert anyone, but people would be
asked to respect the mission of the shelter. someone did tell me that
they knew someone that left the shelter in MT because they wouldn't
convert. but addicts aren't the most reliable sources of
info...particularly when it comes to themselves and their own issues
and recovery. AA/NA and all the other anonymous gatherings are pretty
christian BTW and have helped lots of people stop using.

now, the best argument against the shelter. Ive never heard it before
about a week ago, but maybe i just missed it: 

Drug addicts are better off in an area that is not an outlet mall for
drugs. if i simply missed the argument dismiss the rest of the
paragraph. if it wasn't put forth, Vail is less smart than all his
verbiage spewing indicates OR...he is a real estate agent that doesn't
want to scare off potential buyers. which one is more likely??? 
people trying to score a sale of anything are so funny. the AP
citizenry really needs to bring more awareness to how many land
hawkers are swimming in its power centers. 

anyway..i hope you all enjoyed our great city this summer. i am
craving a conversation about the issues of social programs and the
like, including how the reactionary right can freak out

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Bicycles, Parking and Pavillions

[firemer]

You keep saying that it is just a few people who do not ride  responsibly.  
This is not so.  Over half of the bikes on the boardwalk  are constantly 
speeding and a disaster is just waiting to  happen.



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Re: [AsburyPark] Deal website compared to The City of Asbury Park website

[firemer]

Why look at Deal for the speeding bikes?  I was almost run down three  times 
on the Asbury boardwalk by speeding cyclists.  There is no  enforcement to the 
bike rules on the boardwalk.  There should either be a  bike lane on the 
boardwalk or no cyclists at all during the hours that biking is  not permitted 
on 
the boardwalk.



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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: My donation to AP - Parking Ticket

[firemer]

If we are not allowed to make right turns on red lights on several streets  
in Asbury Park,  then why are these red light cycles so extremely  long?   I 
have often been the only car in the intersection  waiting for the green light.  
Isn't this a terrible waste of gasoline when  the nation is trying to go 
green?  Also, consider the productivity lost by  the people waiting so long.  
What 
is wrong with a) shortening the  light cycle and b) having blinking lights on 
off  hours?



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Van Zandt's School Music - We're a bit late

[firemer]

Research has shown that when Black middle class parents pull their children out 
of the school system, it is doomed to failure.? Look at the Birmingham school 
system.? That is exactly what is going on there.? Black middle class parents 
need to be reassured that their children will receive the best possible 
education at the existing schools.? 


-Original Message-
From: oakdorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:11 am
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Van Zandt's School Music - We're a bit late






.>> My child is presently in the third grade at Hope Academy
Charter and I am researching Charter and private schools at this time
because when she graduates the 8th grade (5 years from now) I will not
be sending her to AP public schools a,,,
<<<

you and the others have made a statement. So what is the next step
today and in 5 years - which will be tomorrow.

Right now you have this curious little mind (not yours, your childs)
who hears and sees a ton of things and has to sort them out. Luckily,
she has you as a concerned parent trying to guide her along an ugly
trail and to do her right. 



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: New planters around Convention hall, and Bradley park side of Ocean ave.

[firemer]

The bottom line is the CH is one of the focal points of Asbury Park that people 
will judge it by.? It looks like crap in the inside now, broken tile floors, 
cracks on the wall etc.? An attractive and fixed up CH will do alot to the 
revival of the town.


-Original Message-
From: Allan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: New planters around Convention hall, and Bradley 
park side of Ocean ave.









Considering that people go to Convention hall (shows and events are scheduled) 
maybe that is why there is a focus.? I gather the impression that some will not 
be happy unless Asbury Park looks exactly as it did in 1972 and back they it 
was failing.? 


- Original Message 
From: charlie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2007 3:49:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: New planters around Convention hall, and Bradley 
park side of Ocean ave.



" Another inappropriate use of resources and waste of money.
Large concrete planters and lots of plants - WHY ???
Has it not occured to anyone that there is a saddly neglected formal 
park right there.
Bradley park is what needs the plants - to be restored as a beutiful 
landscape.
So, they spend tons on money to put potted plants next to the park.
Dysfunctional"

 Theres nothing wrong with the planters in my opinion.? They look nice.? 
You're right however, there's no functional reason for their existence... . But 
does there have to be 
 The shrubs planted decades ago on each corner of Bradley Park are also 
pointless.? They have no privacy function behind them.? Unless you know of 
something?? They were planted to beautify the park.? The same way the pots 
beautify the Paramount courtyard and sidewalk in front of CH.? If you don't 
agree with how it looks, thats your opinion, which is fine!!
? ?? I'm sure Bradley Park will be restored with new grass and plants someday 
soon.? The park still needs to be cut down a few feet to match the new sidewalk 
height...? In my opinion this is why the underground sprinkler system wasn't 
cared for, because they new it would need to come up in the future.? Not fair 
that the city paid for it, and it was destroyed tho.? Something should be given 
back for sure. 
? ? ? A completely separate issue!? The two do not connect in anyway.? You 
can't compare adding beautification to sidewalks and courtyards with a park 
that is next to them!? One thing at a time.? 
 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: This is where WE send OUR homeless.

[firemer]

I guess Asbury Steve couldn't blame the Jews as a scapegoat , why not everyone 
else does,( there aren't too many here ) then he had to find a new scapegoat, 
the gays.


-Original Message-
From: dfsavgny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:27 am
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: This is where WE send OUR homeless.






--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What's depressing about the comments on the APP comments about that
article is that 
> some of the people are vilifying AP as a place where the middle
class and gay population 
> are trying to put down people on the west side and that somehow we
have a vendetta 
> against the homeless.

Jack,

That's Asbury Steve. I like Steve but he is a super whack job (I will
of course be getting emal from him now). Also, a certifiable socialist.



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Its the Small Stuff ....Library Square, West Side, All Around Town...

[firemer]

Having worked in the South Bronx for many years, I noticed much litter and 
graffiti throughout Boro especially in the poorest neighborhoods.??Once a slew 
of affordable and subsidized housing was built in vacant and burned out lots 
and made available to the residents,?the majority of residents?were now able 
to?purchase their homes from the government at a nominal rate, and the litter 
and graffiti practically dried up.? These new owners now took pride in their 
new homes and worked very hard in keeping the neighborhood clean.? My 
observation was, give people a stake in the neighborhood and they will keep it 
clean.

-Original Message-
From: oakdorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 1:10 pm
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Its the Small Stuff Library Square, West Side, 
All Around Town...







> Not Giuliani. "He is much more wonkish and intellectual than people
> give him credit for," Siegel says. "Because of the tough-guy exterior,
> they don't notice." 
> ..."
>

I worked in the city when G was mayor then went out. It was a 
noticeable difference in the appearance of the city/streets - at least 
to an outsider like me.

Don't know the costs, but given how much APPEARED to be cleaned up 
while G was mayor and the cities apparent economic recovery, it was 
successful.

i'm sure Dan can cover it. (If Giuliani was a success)

You'd think this approach would work in AP and maybe it is

This is where you need a public figure like a mayor or City Manager or 
PR person to step up and brag about the "New" Asbury Park and how it 
HAS evolved and will evolve and teh steps to ensure that it does. 

Not just the boardwalk bragging.

I can think of another project that will be over 1 year past due that 
won't be bring any revenue in 2008 as planned.



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re:Library Park

[firemer]

Sharon, even though I don't know you, you seem like a truly beautiful and 
compassionate person.? But, maybe we need to ask the people who we are donating 
clothing and food to, to reciprocate and show some gratitude to by volunteering 
to help clean up the city, or volunteer to keep?a watch that the city is safe 
for all.??I am sure that if asked for their help, they?would be?willing to do 
their part in return.? After receiving food and clothing from the church, 
salvation army or other supportive organizations, they should report back to 
their distributor as to how they have done their part in return to make the 
city a better and safer place to live.? This would also serve to increase their 
own value of self worth and pride that they are doing something in return for 
everyone's generosity toward them.
-Original Message-
From: 2fine4u <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 5:53 am
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re:Library Park






I've always given mine to the Salvation Army. Twice a year, I clean
the closets out and good, clean, wearable garments, are accepted. You
can also take a tax deduction. On the 1st Avenue side, is where you
can take the clothing, shoes, appliances, knick knacks, aka "dust
catchers" and "Cha-chis", books, furniture, even canned goods, you
don't want.

Turned off by the food giveaway at St. Peter's Thrift Store, now,
defunct, I began carting my "stuff", over there, on Main St. Many
staffers are volunteers and are very cordial and friendly. My
organization, hosts, table sales, chinese auctions, etc., and I tend
to buy the "new" things, like candles and gift sets. Many stores that
have items they couldn't sell, wind up over there! Still in their
packaging, brand new!

I usually have 2 shopping bags, of "new" items, to generate sales. 
The money from sales, goes toward the general fund, that pays for
postage, copy paper, etc. My organization, like the Salvation Army,
is non-profit, all volunteer and lobbies for veterans issues. I
collect white porcelain and have found really unusual pieces, over
there, CHEAP!

If you want to get rid of your stuff, take it to the Salvation Army. 
The clothing goes to families in distress, from fires, floods and
other natural disasters. I had never been in the building on Asbury
Avenue, until the fire, last month. I needed to get indoors, from the
heat and found refuge there. I will never forget them, for the soft
chair and the cold water. I wish everyone in this group, could send
them a dollar! They really provided a safe place to congregate and
rest, after standing outdoors, for hours.

I think of the commercial played during Christmas, with their bell and
donation holder. I'm so glad I never passed the pot by, without
dropping something in. My daughter, who is 36, does the same, because
I would always give her a dollar, to drop into the pot, when she was
but a toddler. See, you have me all worked up, now! I love those people!
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/23/2007 4:59:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> I stopped in to donate some clothing and walked in on the "giveaway".
> Most churches in the area, have something, going on, which is funded
> by the government and distributed by the churches. Sisters of Mercy,
> were doing the same thing on Main St. and Bradley Beach, has a
> location, also.
> 
> 
> Sharon,
> 
> I've narrowed down my choices for local organizations that can best
use my 
> too much "stuff."
> 
> 1. Habitat's ReStore for just about anything except clothing.
> 
> 2. SPCA for bed linens, towels, etc.
> 
> But,
> What is your top recommendation for donating new and good used
clothing?
> 
> 
> 



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Drugs, Lighting, and Library Square Park

[firemer]

Maybe you need to speak to Chief Kimmon directly. He has always been responsive 
in the past.


-Original Message-
From: Hinge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:04 pm
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Drugs, Lighting, and Library Square Park






Oh some level, I agree, but the police aren't doing sureillence, and aren't 
making arrests.
They wouldn't have to do either if the lighting was finally fixed.
Calvin, who lives across the street, says he's called the PD many times, and 
he's fed up 
with their lack of effort.
This problem has been going on for way too long.
Now, I know the PD already have their hands full, but please. How many phone 
calls does 
it take for them to get the message.
And, when a concerned for their safety citizen like myself contacts the PD, 
worried about 
the kids that I just reported, and they don't even bother to ask my name, 
that's also a 
problem.
Finallly, seeing these same three kids who had obviously been smoking pot in CH 
hall the 
very next day shows me that they have no fear of getting busted. And one of 
them stared 
me down like he knew exactly how had reported them the night before.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> It seems to me that one night of police surveillance and corresponding 
> arrests should 
clear up the problem.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Hinge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:12 am
> Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Drugs, Lighting, and Library Square Park
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a nice discussion with the APHS about this topic, and they are trying 
> to restore the 
> lighting, but it is a time consuming process. They also are trying to 
> expedite the repair 
of 
> the lighting poles, but this is also taking way too long. The city needs to 
> step in and get 
> this done. The park has been dark for too long, and it is being abused.
> I am not the only resident who is fed up with this situation. Calvin, who 
> lives directly 
> across the street from the park is very fed up. 
> There is no defense for the park being dark for this amount of time.
> It's unacceptable.
> When I see new, empty drug bags there virtually every single morning, as well 
> as 
discarded 
> beer and liquor bottles, we have a problem.
> I'm sorry, but the city is not paying attention, and dragging their feet.
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hopefully, that's good news, but honestly, the park has been dark 
> > for months, not days.
> > > I know that the APHS has been working on this too, but seriously, 
> > all the park needs is 
> > > lighting. 
> > > --- 
> > several questons, or ideas which might help you, i hope. if you are 
> > talking about the 3 ornamental globes on the fountain itself, they 
> > are definitley out and are the responsibility of the aphs, and to me 
> > were more decorative them illumative,, the lights on the poles are 
> > jcp&l s responsibility if they are out the police should of contacted 
> > them , but anyone can, as far as future lighting you better check 
> > with aphs again it was my understanding, they just wanted to replace 
> > the poles with more ornate ones, while this will look pretty i do not 
> > know if it is the answer you are looking for, good luck
> > 
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > In a message dated 10/18/2007 9:59:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight 
> > Time, 
> > > > oakdorf@ writes:
> > > > 
> > > > un the neighbort go tot he home depot, and get a 3 light halogen
> > > > light, plug in your house and aim it at the park
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > City council is actively working on security lighting/ 
> > surveilance cameras 
> > > > from what I could understand at last night's meeting.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ** See what's new at 
> > http://www.aol.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
> http://
mail.aol.com
>



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Drugs, Lighting, and Library Square Park

[firemer]

It seems to me that one night of police surveillance and corresponding arrests 
should clear up the problem.


-Original Message-
From: Hinge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:12 am
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Drugs, Lighting, and Library Square Park






I had a nice discussion with the APHS about this topic, and they are trying to 
restore the 
lighting, but it is a time consuming process. They also are trying to expedite 
the repair of 
the lighting poles, but this is also taking way too long. The city needs to 
step in and get 
this done. The park has been dark for too long, and it is being abused.
I am not the only resident who is fed up with this situation. Calvin, who lives 
directly 
across the street from the park is very fed up. 
There is no defense for the park being dark for this amount of time.
It's unacceptable.
When I see new, empty drug bags there virtually every single morning, as well 
as discarded 
beer and liquor bottles, we have a problem.
I'm sorry, but the city is not paying attention, and dragging their feet.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge"  wrote:
> >
> > Hopefully, that's good news, but honestly, the park has been dark 
> for months, not days.
> > I know that the APHS has been working on this too, but seriously, 
> all the park needs is 
> > lighting. 
> > --- 
> several questons, or ideas which might help you, i hope. if you are 
> talking about the 3 ornamental globes on the fountain itself, they 
> are definitley out and are the responsibility of the aphs, and to me 
> were more decorative them illumative,, the lights on the poles are 
> jcp&l s responsibility if they are out the police should of contacted 
> them , but anyone can, as far as future lighting you better check 
> with aphs again it was my understanding, they just wanted to replace 
> the poles with more ornate ones, while this will look pretty i do not 
> know if it is the answer you are looking for, good luck
> 
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > In a message dated 10/18/2007 9:59:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight 
> Time, 
> > > oakdorf@ writes:
> > > 
> > > un the neighbort go tot he home depot, and get a 3 light halogen
> > > light, plug in your house and aim it at the park
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > City council is actively working on security lighting/ 
> surveilance cameras 
> > > from what I could understand at last night's meeting.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
> > >
> >
>



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] The little things matter

[firemer]

What  is needed is an unannounced occasional police sweep on the boardwalk 
issuing summonses to those breaking the law.  Just like they listed the names 
of the 18 Johns, they should also list the names of the boardwalk violators.  
Word will spread like wildfire and people just might begin to obey the laws.


-Original Message-
From: Hinge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:49 am
Subject: [AsburyPark] The little things matter






There are the remains of bicycle chained to a street sign on Main
Street on the same block as The Saint. It's been sitting there for
over a week now, and every few days, it looks like somebody has stolen
another piece off of it.
And everyday, the police, the mayor, and the town council probably
drive past it. So do the people who pass thru our town.
I am increasingly getting the impression that our cities
administration is either too apathetic or too clueless to understand
that the city will always be judged by it's appearence.
Boarded up houses covered with graffiti are hurting us.
Garbage everywhere is hurting us.
Last night, I walked my dog on the boardwalk past two police officers
at the same time when there were more bicyclists then pedestrians.
While I love that somehow it's ok to walk my dog there even though the
signs say otherwise, as well as my fellow bicyclists having a good
time out on the boardwalk, it just makes me wonder if this isn't part
of the deeper problem. Laws are written but not enforced. If AP were
to crack down on the many quality of life crimes that plague our city
maybe things would begin to change.



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] where'd everyone go?

[firemer]

Spent a nice Sunday on the Boardwalk enjoying the nice weather and taking in 
all the sites.  My only gripe is that there were cyclists riding in all lanes 
of the boardwalk, some at really fast speeds.  If the council decides  to allow 
bike riding on the boardwalk during prime hours, then there has to be a 
dedicated lane for all bike riders so the pedestrians can feel at ease and not 
have to be worried about  being hit.  If we are not going to allow bike riding 
on the boardwalk during prime hours, then the no bike riding rules need to be 
strictly enforced.  


-Original Message-
From: charlie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 28 May 2007 12:48 pm
Subject: [AsburyPark] where'd everyone go?






This group got really quiet the last few weeks. With all the stuff 
going on, you'd think posts would increase! Wheere did everyone go!



 


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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Thank You

[firemer]

You couldn't have said that better.  Right on. 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Thank You


No more that 10 minutes a lesson should be spent on homework or 
else there will not be time to introduce the new work. 
>

Reality, the trachers need control and support from their admin and 
parent.


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Thank You

[firemer]

Good teaching requires that hands on learning be the rule, not the exception.  
Children need to go from the concrete to the abstract when they learn.  A warm 
up should be on the board when the students walk in the room.  The students who 
complete the warm up quickly and correctly should get extra points or rewards 
for doing so.  After a while, students will be competing for these points and 
the discipline problems should dissipate.  No more that 10 minutes a lesson 
should be spent on homework or else there will not be time to introduce the new 
work.  
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 5:40 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Thank You


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> It is not the quantity but the quality of teaching that makes a 
difference in whether or not the children are learning. 

Some kids need hands on learning. Not a photocopy of a box to measure, 
they can't relate.

Take my son. Give the kid a box and a tape measure, water and whatever 
else. He would spend hours telling you all about it. Then take it apart.

Give him a picture of a box, he'd be bored to death.

The current problem is control.
10 minutes to quiet a class
15 minuutes to teach
15 minutes to let them do homework cause that way it might get done.


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Thank You

[firemer]

It is not the quantity but the quality of teaching that makes a difference in 
whether or not the children are learning.  Research shows that small group 
instruction can be very effective if the children are taught to think and 
reason when they are learning.  If they are given rote work to do which is so 
often the case, true learning will not happen. 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Thank You


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "mima4k" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It is true that in a number of classrooms there are 2 teachers, in 
> some cases, as required by law. 

what law?

In other classes, I believe the idea 
> of assigning 2 teachers was to strengthen and improve instruction, 
> not to give someone a free ride.

well looking at the results ie tests etc. state rankings its not 
working!!!

However the previous post referred 
> to teachers being on "vacation", and this is a different matter. 
> Student population numbers are down due at least in part to the 
> rebuilding of the city, and in the past the BOE and the APEA prided 
> itself on keeping jobs in difficult fiscal times.

no the student numbers are down because of false repoting and 
projections by the district , do not preach to me about difficult 
fiscal times unless you are a taxpayer in this city

Please remember, 
> teachers do not assign themselves to these classes. Isn't it ironic 
> that the "state" has been involved heavily in the district for many 
> years now, and they are aware of staffing and approve the budgets? 
> 
> now i totally agree with you, i do not blame the staff, i have 
already said the state doe sucks, but if the local bd is aware of 
this alleged over staffing because they are pro union then they are 
also guilty of waste, and raising taxes, i am not saying lets cut 
staff to save money im saying lets use the staff to help the chldren 
2 teachers to mainlined classe? lets ask the non abbott districts 
what they think of this waste > > no lets ask the attorney general, 
dont say lets ask the state doe, or its commissoner, they are the 
ones who created this monster


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Redevelopment vs Train Line, or Never the train shall meet ?

[firemer]

I've noticed that towns that have a greater concentration of trash cans also 
have less litter on the ground.  If more of the businesses had a trash can 
outside of their stores, maybe more people would get the message.  It would 
also require less effort on people who wish to get rid of litter if the trash 
can was right there instead of searching for a trash can which can be very 
difficult in many instances.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:59 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Redevelopment vs Train Line, or Never the train shall 
meet ?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
The point is people were taught not to litter or jwalk and they still 
do it. The sane will go for bike safety. It all starts at home and it 
seems like the home just don't care. It will have to take a tragic 
death for people to wake up to bike safety. The way these kids ride 
on Main St. it could happen.

So what's your point?
> When you see somebody littering, what do you do? Ignore it like most
> people.
> I don't.
> It amazes me how many people in AP just throw their trash on the
> ground. People of all ages, from all walks of life. Why does it 
happen
> so much here, but not in the surrounding towns?
> I also used to volunteer my time to teach kids bike safety.
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Fred"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge"  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > At the same time you can teach the people not to jwalk and litter 
too.
> > Lot's of Luck.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "In theory you are correct, a 5 MPH limit. But, unfortunately, 
> > people 
> > > don't play by the rules. Most will speed recklessly and cause 
much 
> > > anxiety for those walking on the boardwalk."
> > > 
> > > I tend to disagree with this. I think there are many responsible
> > > cyclists, but on the other hand, I don't think that kids are 
> > learning
> > > how to be good cyclists anymore, and I don't think that our 
country 
> > in
> > > general takes bicycling seriously the way it is in Europe. 
Every 
> > day,
> > > I see kids riding against the traffic, which is horrible. When 
a kid
> > > rides against traffic, he or she isn't realizing that when 
people 
> > pull
> > > out from driveways or side streets, they often don't look to the
> > > right, rather they look to the left to see if there is anybody 
> > heading
> > > in their direction in the road.
> > > I also think that if AP did have a dedicated bike lane, and 
made an
> > > attempt to educate the users on the rules, you'd actually teach 
> > people
> > > something good as well as give them a good safe place to ride.
> > >
> >
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Redevelopment vs Train Line, or Never the train shall meet ?

[firemer]

In theory you are correct, a 5 MPH limit.  But, unfortunately, people don't 
play by the rules.  Most will speed recklessly and cause much anxiety for those 
walking on the boardwalk.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Redevelopment vs Train Line, or Never the train shall 
meet ?


It's like we had mutually agreed, It didn't need to be a difficult 
issue. A lane with a 5 MPH limit. Period. For youths and Spandex clad 
racers alike. Period. Outside of these parameters, your asked to 
leave, warned, fined, whatever. Period. Simple? Simple to me, but 
maybe I'm the simple minded one. I feel that way for having invested 
in AP. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Checking into Portland's redevelopment I came across this piece 
that 
> reminded me of the "Bikeway" issues here in Asbury Park. Deals 
> with 'rights-of-way' alternative transportation, etc.
> 
> Development, History, Politics, Tourism - all rolled together.
> 
> http://travel.mainetoday.com/news/050620narrow.shtml
> 
> or
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/36a5uz
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> Werner
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Lastly...

[firemer]

Even if the law suit was won, the parents still can send their children to 
private school or do home schooling.  Without vastly improving the high school 
first and making  it a desirable place for students to be, any law suit would 
be futile. 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Lastly...


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "asburycouple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
I think the Abbott lawsuit took about 4 years.

I'm with you on this one Tom. I don't understand the rationale 
> (legally) around letting students in this district go to other 
> district's public schools. Requiring those students to go to APH 
of 
> pay for private would improve the overall diversity of the school 
> while increasing the focus on improvements not just from parents in 
> AP but parents and taxpayers from the entire district. 
> 
> A lawsuit from the school board to re-visit this "avoid Asbury Park 
> High" policy is both appropriate and would have a good chance of 
> success.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > Oak you have taken my ball and run onto a whole different field 
> with 
> > it. In fact, you are not even playing the same sport with my 
ball.
> > 
> > NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING in any of my posts has to due 
with 
> > inequality in funding. NOTHING. 
> > 
> > My topic is that we are sending the white kids away from their 
> HOME 
> > district. Get that? Their HOME district. That's why I call 
> > it "reverse busing." 
> > 
> > I understand people don't like busing when it is taking kids away 
> > from their home district, to a foreign district, to create racial 
> > balacne in the foreign district. I understand that is 
> objectionable.
> > 
> > If that is objectionable, so is busing kids AWAY FROM THEIR HOME 
> > DISTRICT therefore creating the segregated district at home!
> > 
> > Why not make all the kids stay in their home district? They're 
> > making your kid do it Oak, but the kids in the Asbury District 
are 
> > given this special privilege to avoid AP.
> > 
> > This decision was race based. It is the only one like it. It was 
> > done with a particular purpose, which if you look at the 
> enrollment, 
> > worked.
> > 
> > None of the matters you cite overturned Brown.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> > >
> > > TD: Lsats are June 11. Can't wait.
> > > 
> > > Given the true facts, I see no reason why the schools in NJ are 
> > not 
> > > funded equally. Again, TD, at what point are things considered 
> > equal?
> > > Is it the point every kid from an Abbott district gets into a 
> > college 
> > > of their choice or gets straight A's, what about the white kids 
> > from 
> > > the lawsuit driven rural Abbott Districts? 
> > > 
> > > Tell me - what is equal? beer on me. (then we'll be equal)
> > > 
> > > Another bit:
> > > http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1003/article/501
> > > Instead of relying on these explicit constitutional 
> > guarantees, 
> > > the Court chose to compromise and used sophistic social science 
> in 
> > a 
> > > legal case that would cripple the education and lives of 
> millions 
> > of 
> > > black children for generations to come. 
> > > 
> > > With all due respect to Judge Damon Keith (a jurist of the 
> highest 
> > > order) this gala event tomorrow [May 17, 2003] celebrating the 
> > Brown 
> > > v. Board of Education case, is a terrible tragedy, not because 
I 
> > > don't believe that black people should be allowed to attend 
> school 
> > > with whites. I am a black man--born and raised in Detroit and 
> > > attended Detroit public schools with white children from K-12. 
> > > However, to celebrate a court case such as Brown, which is 
> > obviously 
> > > not based on a single judicial precedent, diminishes the 
> > Constitution 
> > > that every American should put its faith in to uphold. 
> > > 
> > > In 1954, there was a Faustian bargain made among the eight 
> voting 
> > > members of the U.S. Supreme Court, Congress, the President, as 
> > well 
> > > as every court in America, every political leader, every public 
> > > school, private school, law school, university, academy, and 
> every 
> > > responsible American citizen. To give legitimacy to Brown v. 
> Board 
> > of 
> > > Education, is to sacrifice lawful constitutional due process 
and 
> > > sound constitutional jurisprudence for the expediency of the 
> > public 
> > > policy fiction, which the Brown opinion solidified in American 
> > > culture--that is, that black children must be allowed to attend 
> > > public school with white children in order to get [equally] 
> > educated. 
> > > 
> > > This type of misguided public policy presupposes that black 
> > people, 
> > > prior to 1954, were totally uneducated, ignorant and, just 
> waiting 
> > > for Masser to open up the school house do

Re: [AsburyPark] more

[firemer]

You need only to look at the Frederick Douglas Academy in Harlem, New York 
City.  Here is a school that is entirely minority and has one of the best 
reputations in the country for academic success.  Almost 100% of their 
graduating students attend college.  The school is located in one of the 
poorest areas in the country and consistently delivers academic success.  
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:44 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] more


The January 1994 edition of the newsletter of the National Association 
for Neighborhood Schools reports on two Missouri officials, both black, 
who oppose the continued forced busing of children. St. Louis Mayor 
Freeman Bosley questions the point of sending almost 14,000 black 
youngsters out of their own neighborhoods, instead of working to 
improve the nearby schools and making them safe for all. Many of the 
students share his views, expressing their desire for safe, well-
ordered schools within their own communities. Says one student, "You 
shouldn't be forced to leave the area where you live to get a good 
education in a safe atmosphere." Others express agitation at not being 
a part of the communities to which they are bused. 

President of the St. Louis School Board, Eddie Davis, says, "Our 
emphasis should be on educational equity," and claims that it should 
not be up to courts to tell residents of a community what is or isn't 
in their best interests.


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Education circa 1937 in Asbury Read the last line

[firemer]

Very well said.  I still feel that if all parents would instill a love of 
lifelong learning and a respect of teachers and education the same way that 
they do of their church, then we would not have as many problems in the schools 
today.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 8:38 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Education circa 1937 in Asbury Read the last line


The law in NJ, states, that until the age of 16, education, is
mandatory. Even in Catholic Schools, kids, who didn't keep up, were
advised, to attend a public school! When I think back on it, the
Catholic schools in essence, were saying, we send our "refuse", to a
public school. Back then, if this happened, the student, excelled, in
a public school, which by Catholics, were considered, "inferior",
then! I believe a parent is subject to arrest, for negligence against
their child. I hate to say it, but yesterday, being Ash Wednesday, I
attended Mass at Mt. Carmel. To my delight, I got to see my own
grandson, receive communion and his ashes. The order and discipline
employed, delighted me. This can occur in a public school, as well. 
All kids need to see, are caring adults. I've seen it at the
recreation level, e.g., Pop Warner ball, for instance. I saw no kids,
talking back, saw kids, taking instruction, saw kids paying attention,
etc. Why can't this happen in the classroom? I can spend up to, 4
hours a day, tutoring or just showing kids, hygiene! When things are
explained to children, if they have half a mind, they heed, any
positive instruction. I've been to the alternative school, years ago
and saw how rapt, the kids became, when someone took half an interest,
in them. Kids are like puppies, they "feel" you. I am not qualified,
academically, as I didn't major in education, but as a "friend of the
children", I can share so much! I don't speak on redevelopment, or
how one, secures real estate deals, because I have no expertise, in
these fields. We have "experts" on these subjects, already here and
believe me, I'm a "quick" learn and I hear what they are saying, like
how long a building, or renovation, SHOULD, take! I applaud the
wonder, that a small city like Asbury Park, DOESN'T employ the
expertise of its' own citizens, who can save this town money, but
choose to "have it their way"! WE lose and the developers WIN, off of
our backs! That's all I'm going to say, because I don't pretend to
know what I'm talking about. You have Lawyers and people of good
will, to explain to novices like me, what the REAL deal, is. You have
Werner, to explain historic value, DeSeno, to explain legalities and
people with REAL education, to follow the debacle, of our school
system. All, I'm saying, is, I don't mind being corrected, if I'm
ignorant on a subject. I'm just here, to be supportive if I can and
to be corrected, if I'm wrong. I sit here, with an open mind. Those
who know the musical and historical history, as I don't, thank you!

SB

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> To loaf like oafs, to nod like clods seemed the best idea to 40
> students at Asbury Park High School, N. J. They were so lazy they
> would not even bother to be bad. Irked immeasurably by Asbury Park's
> 40 sluggards, Superintendent of Schools Amos E. Kraybill announced
> last week he would expel them. "They are wasting their time," he
> cried, "and their teachers' time and the taxpayers' money." Out they
> would go, he said, legally or illegally. The Board of Education backed
> Superintendent Kraybill. But soon Superintendent Kraybill changed his
> mind. He reprieved the 40 laggards, announced he would consult with
> their parents. Meanwhile, said he, they had been frightened into some
> slight improvement.
> 
> Have school boards the right to oust lazy or stupid students? Many a
> tax-paying parent might feel that, having paid his money, he has his
> rights. Last May this question interested one Jean West, 19, freshman
> at the Teachers' College of Miami University (Oxford, Ohio) which is
> State-supported. Suspended for failure to maintain a required
> standing, Miss West sought to restrain Miami University from expelling
> her. Her counsel argued that higher education is for everyone, that
> Miss West, daughter of a taxpayer, had a right to hers. She won her
> case, but a higher court reversed the decision last December. R
> Reason: a pupil who falls below a set standard must not be allowed to
> retard his fellows.
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Interesting read...

[firemer]

I agree with you 100%.  They were not doing their job.  Their attitude was that 
I was annoying them. 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Interesting read...


That is one of the most ridiculous explanations for not doing ones job that 
i've ever heard. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On several visits to Asbury last year, both in season and out of season, my 
> family and I 
were severely intimidated by speeding bicyclists who almost rammed into us on 
several 
occasions. These riders were riding in all lanes of the boardwalk including the 
center lane 
riding at high speeds. This also included the Casino and the Convention Center. 
Many of 
the incidents involved teenagers but several were by adults. We felt completely 
unsafe 
walking on the boardwalk. When I complained to two police officers patrolling 
the 
boardwalk on their bikes they told me in so many words to get over it. They 
then 
explained to us that their visibility prevents them from acting. Their 
explanation for this 
phenomena was that the offending bikers would see them literally a quarter mile 
away and 
then cool it. Therefore the police would see nothing and be able to do nothing. 
If bicycles 
are to be allowed on the boardwalk at all, then the lanes and the hours and 
speed must be 
strictly enforced. Otherwise people will get frighetned or startled and avoid 
the 
boardwalk. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 4:42 PM
> Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Interesting read...
> 
> 
> Wow.
> That is depressing.
> I really loved having the bike rental biz on the boardwalk, and when it left 
> I was quite 
sad.
> One of the things that bummed me out last summer was when AP decided to ban 
> bikes 
> from the boardwalk during daylight hours. To me, that was just a knee jerk 
> reaction to a 
> few bad eggs spoiling it for the rest of us responsible cyclists. 
> If AP would've taken the time to think it through, they could've looked to 
> the inspiration 
of 
> places like Wildwood and Atlantic City, where bikes are allowed year round, 
> and the 
> boardwalk is painted with bike lanes.
> Over the summer, I saw plenty of police officers just hanging out on the 
> boardwalk, and 
it 
> wouldn't have been too hard for them to enforce responsible boardwalk 
> cycling. It would 
> be good for the kids also, because then they would know what is right, and 
> what is 
wrong. 
> By just banning bicycles, nobody learned a lesson.
> It's just absurd to me that AP Partners would allow a biz of bike rentals and 
> then have 
the 
> city pull the rug from under the guys feet. 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > Interesting commentary on the asbury peddlar page website:
> > 
> > http://www.asburyparkpedaler.com/wst_page2.php
> >
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security 
> tools, free 
access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail 
and more.
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Interesting read...

[firemer]

On several visits to Asbury last year, both in season and out of season,  my 
family and I were severely intimidated by speeding bicyclists who almost rammed 
into us on several occasions.  These riders were riding in all lanes of the 
boardwalk including the center lane riding at high speeds. This also included 
the Casino and the Convention Center.   Many of the incidents involved 
teenagers but several were by adults.  We felt completely unsafe walking on the 
boardwalk.  When I complained to two  police officers patrolling the boardwalk 
on their bikes they told me in so many words to get over it.  They then 
explained to us that their visibility prevents them from acting.  Their 
explanation for this phenomena was that the offending bikers would see them 
literally a quarter mile away and then cool it.  Therefore the police would see 
nothing and be able to do nothing. If bicycles are to be allowed on the 
boardwalk at all, then the lanes and the hours and speed must be strictly 
enforced.  Otherwise people will get frighetned or startled and avoid the 
boardwalk.  
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Interesting read...


Wow.
That is depressing.
I really loved having the bike rental biz on the boardwalk, and when it left I 
was quite sad.
One of the things that bummed me out last summer was when AP decided to ban 
bikes 
from the boardwalk during daylight hours. To me, that was just a knee jerk 
reaction to a 
few bad eggs spoiling it for the rest of us responsible cyclists. 
If AP would've taken the time to think it through, they could've looked to the 
inspiration of 
places like Wildwood and Atlantic City, where bikes are allowed year round, and 
the 
boardwalk is painted with bike lanes.
Over the summer, I saw plenty of police officers just hanging out on the 
boardwalk, and it 
wouldn't have been too hard for them to enforce responsible boardwalk cycling. 
It would 
be good for the kids also, because then they would know what is right, and what 
is wrong. 
By just banning bicycles, nobody learned a lesson.
It's just absurd to me that AP Partners would allow a biz of bike rentals and 
then have the 
city pull the rug from under the guys feet. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Interesting commentary on the asbury peddlar page website:
> 
> http://www.asburyparkpedaler.com/wst_page2.php
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Board of Ed

[firemer]

Sharon, while you are admirably insuring that competent school board members 
are being elected, please remember that the best way to get the state off 
Asbury's back is to increase students' test scores.  Since you are willing to 
get the parents involved in this process, it would be very beneficial if you 
could also get them to sign a pledge that they will get more involved in their 
children's learning which includes working with them, getting them the help 
that they need, raise their expectations of what is considered a good grade, 
ask to see their homework assignments and discuss it.  They learning process 
can't all be put upon the teachers.  The parents input is crucial.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Board of Ed



Sharon you say you are going to support the Board. That's the 
problem , this Board looks looks like it's pretty much split. Then 
who do we back. The majority? But that can change vote to vote. Maybe 
the best thing to do is wait until after the election. We will learn 
who the voters want to back. A clear cut majority and direction could 
emerge.

I agree with all of the posts placed here, so far. I only know a few
> of the posters, here, by name. I will help all concerned, do
> ANYthing, as long, as it's legal! I will be in attendance, at the
> next one, if nothing, but to lend support. People are more 
confident,
> when they see their friends, backing them up. I'm going to put my
> mouth, where my intentions, are! Money, too, if need be. If I'm
> needed to circulate petitions, fliers or anything that will set a
> fire, to the residents, you can count on me! Cold or no cold, rain,
> snow, whatever; when I get involved, I put my body, into it! I am
> sending Frank information, on how I can be reached, etc., so that he
> knows, someone is going to help. Can I count on the rest of you to
> support our board in this effort? I'm parking my attitude,
> personality and anything else, that would hinder this push, that we
> need. We have power and we should use it, collectively and
> continuously, to help out in any way we can! I'm going to support 
the
> board, 110%, because if the will of the people and WE are, the 
people,
> it will be a rallying force. I am vowing to be there, if I have to
> use my cane, to walk with. You'll see why. My mind, is alert, but 
my
> body, may not be willing. It's the curse, of aging! I know my 
heart,
> is in the right place. I can donate paper for fliers, but my 
printer
> is limited. If anyone wants to email me off group, please feel free
> to so do.
> Sharon
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apeaexec1"  wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't agree with you more with the fact that we do not need 
a 
> > total state takeover. That would be counterproductive. You see 
the 
> > mess they cause in the other districts. It's a joke. Remember 
who 
> > was overseeing and making recommendations as well as signing off 
on 
> > all documents out of the Asbury Park School District.. The 
> > state. Nothing went through the Superintendent without them 
signing 
> > off, namely the head of the Abbott division in Trenton, who I 
might 
> > add, just resigned his post.
> > 
> > The thing that amazes me, I mean this with all due respect, is 
the 
> > fact that this site primarily worries about everything but the 
school 
> > district. Do you realize that this is the single biggest 
employer in 
> > the city with the largest budget, which is about three times the 
size 
> > of the entire City of Asbury Park's budget? This is almost $100 
> > million. Why aren't more residents demanding answers to the hard 
> > questions. Like what about the shredded documents? How can the 
> > Assistant Superintendent command her secretary to shred three 
> > gigantic garbage bags of official documents, and still be there 
to 
> > give more orders? What about Lewis' suspension? What about the 
> > budget mess and 23 recommendations from the auditor. 
> 
> I had no idea!
> 
> Middletown also 
> > has a suspended Superintendent. The residents up there keep 
> > questioning and pressuring. That's what needs to happen here. 
> > 
> > As for the ballsy move, maybe someone needs to make the threat. 
You 
> > still have a high school that is completely out of hand to 
contend 
> > with. 
> 
> You got that, right! Every year, I purchase "Need a Lift" Books, 
that
> have all of the scholarships, grants and information, known and I
> bring them to the guidance office. I told this to an old friend, 
who
> happens to teach in the high school. She had no knowledge of 
them. I
> was told to give them to her directly from now on! They cost $5.00
> each and I always give APHS, 4 of them and they can be photo-
copied! 
> The last candidate, that my group, sent to Girls' State, at Georgian
> Court, was from the Asbury Park High School, one of the top 10 in 
her
> class, (2006).
> 
> They need a st

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Board of Ed

[firemer]

Research shows that good readers come from families where the family reads and 
talks to them when they are toddlers( builds their vocabulary and listening 
skills), have invigorating discussions at the dinner table (promotes higher 
order thinking skills), does not talk down to their kids but includes them in 
the decision making processes and asks for their opinions. (builds their self 
esteem).  When children are taught to respect teachers at an early age, it will 
have a positive impact on their learning.  If parents would ask to see their 
children's homework and ask them what they learned in school today, it would 
also foster their learning.  If parents would value education more, and instill 
that upon their children, then it will boost their self confidence and the 
learning process.  So you can see the importance of parental involvement in 
fostering their child's love of learning.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 9:23 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Board of Ed


I appreciate this post, not knowing exactly, what is entailed on a
proposed school budget. I also realize that teachers are
"bargained-for" employees. In other words, they are covered by a
union or agency, that protects their rights and benefits, according to
the contract that thier union advisors, bargain for them. I am in
agreement. What about the teachers? What do they provide? At the
cost of sounding fecetious, just what are we supposed to get parents,
caregivers and taxpayers? Should we at least EXPECT, that our kids,
are being taught, the rudimentary examples of reading, Writing and
arithmetic? From what I've gathered, it is NOT the case! Why can't
little Johnnie read? For years, these kids, have been passed along,
just to get them OUT of the high school, be accepted to a college or
university, only to be told, that their SAT scores are too low or if
they pass the test, still have to take redeial classes, such as
general math, elementary english and general science, in order to
qualify to go any furthur. Why did I score as a college junior, when
I returned to school, after 11 years? Was it because I went to a
Catholic High School, or was it the Method! I say, the Method, was in
the details. I had already gone for 9 years to Catholic Elementary
school, K-8, then tested for this college prep, school. Why was I in
a class for the very smart? There were 2 classrooms, reserved; 9-12
and 2 for the not so advanced. Back then, they were considered slow,
but able to keep up! Even then, kids were labled! So what IS the
method, that these teachers, teach? I know that the nuns, drilled the
H*ll, out of us and every week, there was a "pop" quiz, to which
everyone in class, "groaned"! It was enough to give a kid, a
break-down! The TONS, of home-work and study, study, study, made me
dizzy! No time for boys; they were just a distraction and as "nerdy"
as YOU were! No, the kids, I attended school with, were budding
musicians, operatic types, ballet wenches and soon-to-be, teachers,
doctors, lawyers. No loafers, here! Why, did my generation, MAKE it?
We were raised by affectionate, caring people, that's why. People
who gave a D*amn, about us and the neighbors, who "told" on you, if
they saw you doing something, you didn't have any business, doing! 
Like smoking a cigarette! Dumb stuff! Is it me, or are we raiding a
generation of illiterates? I grew up iin the late 50's and early
60's, FYI.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "radio881gal"  
> wrote:
> >
> > Where will we get the money the state says we have to pay back? New 
> > condos won't be paying any schools tax.
> > Anybody got any ideas?
> > Maureen
> >
> not knowing their budget it would be impossible for us to say, what 
> areas can be cut without effecting the students, hopefully the 9 who 
> got us in this mess are already working on different options, so when 
> the bill comes they are prepared, i would suggest top administrators, 
> lawyers fees, changing health carriers could provide between 300 and 
> 500 thoudsand in savings, but the union doesnt want to switch, oh i 
> forgot they are not suppose to be running the district, switching 
> carriers is perfectly legal, has been done in the past, the key is 
> you have to provide the same insurance package you are already 
> providing "equal to or better" , eliminating bd. members trips,, 
> what ever, the key is they should already be working on this, all it 
> would take is the bd to direct the staff to start working on 
> alternate plans,this was also done in the past by proactive not 
> reactive bds. the more preparation the easier the blow when it does 
> happen, and it will, so dont waste lawyers fees on appealing it 
> something they also did. your right new condos wont be paying school 
> taxes, but that is a totally different story, i hope you are not 
> trying to blame that for the

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Market Street Mission

[firemer]

I agree.  Unfortunately, the Asbury homeless will gravitate towards the 
waterfront and beg for money thereby frightening off tourists and prospective 
buyers in Asbury Park.  People will feel intimidated and not want to come to 
Asbury and patronize the merchants.  Maybe when Asbury becomes well established 
a few years from now should a mission in Asbury even be considered. 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Market Street Mission


While I don't think anything is as simple as the "your either with 
us or against us" type of conclusion you're making, I do 
fundamentally disagree with every argument I've heard regarding this 
shelter. It's bad for quality of life and commerce in Asbury Park, 
dangerous for our kids and completely unwarranted given all this 
city already has in place vs. surrounding communities. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Funny you should bring up Fort Monmouth. There is a homeless 
> shelter there, and has been for years.
> 
> They have a bus and will come pick up the homeless person and let 
> them stay for 30 days straight.
> 
> They also check for warrants. If the person has one, they get to 
> sleep in a different place that night.
> 
> Market Street Mission refuses to check for warrants. Guess what 
that 
> means - anyone with a warrant will come here to Asbury Park 
because 
> they won't get checked. Great attraction.
> 
> There is no way JK or anyone else should be behind this Mission. 
> You either care about this community or you care about something 
> else.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge"  wrote:
> >
> > While I like Jim Keady, I strongly oppose the Market Street 
> Mission. The last thing we need 
> > are more questionable people wandering around our city.
> > I don't understand why the abandoned parts of Ft. Monmouth 
aren't 
> being used for things 
> > like the Mission. 
> > Actually, I'd like to know what Ft. Monmouth plans on doing with 
> the empty housing on 
> > Pinebrook Road. There is a whole abandoned community there, 
fenced 
> in and empty.
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > hurry up and get a house here and you can take his place 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > - Original Message 
> > > From: justifiedright 
> > > To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:02:57 PM
> > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Market Street Mission
> > > 
> > > How anyone can say he cares about the youth of this City and 
> support 
> > > this House of Pedophiles is beyond me.
> > > 
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Allan Peterson 
>  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Article in the press today about the Market Street Mission. 
> One 
> > > highlight:
> > > > 
> > > > "City Councilman Jim Keady then noted that he was the only 
> member 
> > > of the council who did not sign off on the city's brief in 
> support 
> > > of the objectors to the shelter."
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > >  _ _ _ _ _ 
_
> > >  ___
> > > > Get your own web address. 
> > > > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> > > > http://smallbusines s.yahoo.com/ domains/? p=BESTDEAL
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> 
__
> ___
> > > It's here! Your new message! 
> > > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
> > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
> > >
> >
>


 

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tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Lights or No Lights

[firemer]

More lights translates into less crime.  The cost for the extra lighting will 
be more than made up with the safety of the population.  The lights are modern 
and very attractive and should blend in nicely with the new buildings and 
pavilions that are going up.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Lights or No Lights


Several folks have noticed the new light fixtures being installed 
around the beachfront - shiney silver, look like bug zappers.

Overall, the comments have been good, that its a sign of progress and 
sets the tone for the New Asbury Park. All positive observations but 
has anyone considered the negative consequences?

Consider the following:

- They relate to nothing architecturally either existing or planned.
- The 'green space' islands are being populated with lights. Where 
there were previously 3 poles with 6 lamps, there are now 14 poles 
with 16 lamps.
- The 'islands' were supposed to be free of visual obstructions (they 
also now include large silver electrical control boxes).
- When the building sides of the blocks are lighted that will add 
abother 14 to 16 lamps in addition to the island lamps. About 32 
light poles and lamps on each avenue between Kinsley and Ocean
- Previously there were 3 poles and 6 lamps in the same space.
- Who is paying for the street lighting power? The City !
- Expand this to the entire beachfront, Ocean, Kingsley, around 
bradley park, in front of ConHall, Cookman, etc etc

This is Lighting Gone Wild, no relevance estheticly, excessive 
numbers, poor locations, intrusion on historic sites, cluttering view 
corridors

This lighting plan is treating the entire beachfront as a giant 
parking lot just as I had predicted several years ago. For reference 
have a look at Seaview Square, Walmart or any of the other such place 
at night and you will get the picture.

Werner


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Last night's Board of Ed meeting

[firemer]

It is still in the best interests of the teachers for their students to show 
gains or else they will be taken over by the State.  If this happens, then 
there is no guarantee for their position to remain secure and they can be 
transferred out of their schools and possibly be laid off. 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:46 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Last night's Board of Ed meeting


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In New York City there is a push to tie in student achievement with 
tenure for new teachers. If after three years a teacher cannot show 
improvement in the test scores of the children that he is teaching, 
he will be denied tenure. 

thats all well and good, but this is not nyc, you have to play by new 
jerey rules which suck ,, 3 years and a day and their here for your 
life you want to change the rules talk to your state reps. but your 
wasting your time the njea is to strong to be taken on, 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "asburycheech"  
> wrote:
> > thank you, for keeping us informed, the two serious problems, are 
> monsters, can you share more information on either, especially the 
> second one? or will we have to let it play out and read about it in 
> the papers? is the audit and its recommendations available to the 
> public or do we have to wait to you vote on your corrective action 
> plan? easy for me to speculate, i shouldnt but i will someone NO 
MANY 
> SOMEONES were asleep or burying their heads in the sand for these 
two 
> events to happen, i am not saying bd. members, i am saying 
> administrators, notice the s for plural no one person no two people 
> could pull this off, without help, bd. members are only as good as 
> their administrators, who are suppose to be keeping the bd. 
informed, 
> again many did not do this , no excuses go after them all even the 
> ones who knew were not part of it but did not bring it to your 
> attention. again thank you, good luck, on what i see as not a happy 
> or joyful several months trying to straighten this mess up.
> 
> > To keep you informed on the latest: 
> > Last night, Thursday, February 1, the Asbury Park Board of 
> > Education had a special meeting in which very important business 
> took 
> > place. First, the board voted to accept the annual internal audit 
> > conducted by Rick Gartz. By the way, that doesn't mean all board 
> > members liked it, but rather that it was formally received by the 
> > board. The audit found at least 23 very serious deficiencies, 
> among 
> > them two serious problems found by other State agencies. I will 
> > explain in a moment, but there is attached to the audit, as there 
> is 
> > required to be, a "corrective action plan", which was also 
approved 
> > by the board. The board was asked to "digest" the audit and its 
> > findings and continue discussion at the next meeting. The other 
> two 
> > reports formally accepted by the board last night are the two I 
> > referenced above. One states that the annual report filed with 
the 
> > State every year on or about October 15 (called the ASSA 
reportâ€"I'm 
> > not sure what the acronym means exactly) reporting the number of 
> > students has been inflated for several years. That, of course, is 
> a 
> > serious allegation, and there is lots of evidence to back it up. 
> > That alone will cost the district several millions of dollars in 
> > state aid that must be recouped. The other report the board 
> accepted 
> > contains extremely serious allegations that some person or 
persons 
> > has/have been "circumventing" the bidding laws by having one 
> company 
> > form subsidiary companies so that in no case is the bidding 
> threshold 
> > ($21,000) met or exceeded. If true, and there is plenty of 
> evidence 
> > to support the allegations, this is tantamount to the same 
offense 
> > for which people are now serving time. The State office of 
> > compliance is sending the matter on to the state Attorney 
General's 
> > office. Both of those reports also have a "corrective action 
plan" 
> > attached to them. As a member of the board of ed, I do not speak 
> for 
> > the board, but these reports are "distressing" as my fellow board 
> > member Greg Brewington said last night. They also present a great 
> > opportunity, in my opinion, to bring the matter of 
> > misfeasance/malfeasance to a head, and expose a decade of 
> corruption 
> > when the business of the school system was far removed from the 
> > business of education. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> > Frank D'Alessandro
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
__
__
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and 
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from 
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Last night's Board of Ed meeting

[firemer]

In New York City there is a push to tie in student achievement with tenure for 
new teachers.  If after three years a teacher cannot show improvement in the 
test scores of the children that he is teaching, he will be denied tenure.  It 
does not take rocket science to focus the students on the basics as well as 
test sophistication to improve test scores.  This may require a longer school 
day, attending classes after school or on Saturdays for those in need as well 
as requiring summer school attendance for those most in need.  It may also 
require family math and literacy nights for parents and students to attend 
together and make learning fun and interesting.   In addition, GED classes 
should be offered for parents.  Once the students have mastered the basics,  
they will be more equipped to get to the next level of learning where they 
incorporate higher thinking skills at a more rapid pace. 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 6:37 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Last night's Board of Ed meeting


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "asburycheech" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> thank you, for keeping us informed, the two serious problems, are 
monsters, can you share more information on either, especially the 
second one? or will we have to let it play out and read about it in 
the papers? is the audit and its recommendations available to the 
public or do we have to wait to you vote on your corrective action 
plan? easy for me to speculate, i shouldnt but i will someone NO MANY 
SOMEONES were asleep or burying their heads in the sand for these two 
events to happen, i am not saying bd. members, i am saying 
administrators, notice the s for plural no one person no two people 
could pull this off, without help, bd. members are only as good as 
their administrators, who are suppose to be keeping the bd. informed, 
again many did not do this , no excuses go after them all even the 
ones who knew were not part of it but did not bring it to your 
attention. again thank you, good luck, on what i see as not a happy 
or joyful several months trying to straighten this mess up.

> To keep you informed on the latest: 
> Last night, Thursday, February 1, the Asbury Park Board of 
> Education had a special meeting in which very important business 
took 
> place. First, the board voted to accept the annual internal audit 
> conducted by Rick Gartz. By the way, that doesn't mean all board 
> members liked it, but rather that it was formally received by the 
> board. The audit found at least 23 very serious deficiencies, 
among 
> them two serious problems found by other State agencies. I will 
> explain in a moment, but there is attached to the audit, as there 
is 
> required to be, a "corrective action plan", which was also approved 
> by the board. The board was asked to "digest" the audit and its 
> findings and continue discussion at the next meeting. The other 
two 
> reports formally accepted by the board last night are the two I 
> referenced above. One states that the annual report filed with the 
> State every year on or about October 15 (called the ASSA report—I'm 
> not sure what the acronym means exactly) reporting the number of 
> students has been inflated for several years. That, of course, is 
a 
> serious allegation, and there is lots of evidence to back it up. 
> That alone will cost the district several millions of dollars in 
> state aid that must be recouped. The other report the board 
accepted 
> contains extremely serious allegations that some person or persons 
> has/have been "circumventing" the bidding laws by having one 
company 
> form subsidiary companies so that in no case is the bidding 
threshold 
> ($21,000) met or exceeded. If true, and there is plenty of 
evidence 
> to support the allegations, this is tantamount to the same offense 
> for which people are now serving time. The State office of 
> compliance is sending the matter on to the state Attorney General's 
> office. Both of those reports also have a "corrective action plan" 
> attached to them. As a member of the board of ed, I do not speak 
for 
> the board, but these reports are "distressing" as my fellow board 
> member Greg Brewington said last night. They also present a great 
> opportunity, in my opinion, to bring the matter of 
> misfeasance/malfeasance to a head, and expose a decade of 
corruption 
> when the business of the school system was far removed from the 
> business of education. 
> 
> 

> Frank D'Alessandro
>


 

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Need help from our teacher

[firemer]

As a retired administrator for the NYC school system, I found that the K-8  
model was preferable since the parents and teachers got to know one another for 
 a much longer time.  In this situation, the students tended to act out less  
since the principal knew each of the names of the students and had a closer  
relationship with each of the parents.   The test scores were also  much 
higher for students in grades 5-8 in a K-8 setting.  Until reading and  math 
scores 
improve in Asbury Park, many middle class parents, especially black  middle 
class parents, will continue to send their studious children to private  
schools. I think that a mixture of needy families along with middle class  
families 
working together is what is needed to give us a well needed turn around  in 
our schools. Since the number of students in Asbury Park schools is not that  
large, it should not be that difficult to place test prep programs in the  
schools during the school day.  In addition, students in risk of academic  
failure 
should attend math and reading boot camp after school, on Saturdays and  
during the vacation periods.  If these programs can work in the poorest  
schools in 
the South Bronx, they most certainly can work in Asbury Park. As a  result in 
the reading and math score improvement in the South Bronx, students  felt 
more confident and better about themselves and saw educational success as  an 
alternative to gang membership. The other thing that we did in the South  Bronx 
was to bring in successful role models of color, other than rap stars and  
sports stars for the students to identify with and aspire to. We brought in  
CEOs, 
superintendents, politicians and other successful businessmen of color for  
the students see, hear and relate with. The message was that today more than  
ever there are more high level job opportunities  for students of color who  
have succeeded in school.  The message that we instilled upon the students  is 
that there is hope.

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Call in the troops

[firemer]

What makes you think that some of the parents of gang members do not know that 
their children are involved especially those underage children that are drug 
runners and bring home the extra cash that supports their parents and pays 
their rent?  In these cases, the parents look the other way.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Call in the troops


What worries me about this gang problem in AP is how many fronts the
fight against it is going to have to be fought on.
First, there's the gangs themselves. You have to ask, why do they
exist here? What makes becoming a member of a gang more attractive
then not being in a gang?
Next, we have the underlying problems that support the existence of
gangs. AP has been known as a drug destination for decades. Perfect
place for gangs to set up business. Next, there's the prostitution
issue, which seems be waning in my neighborhood at least. Then,
there's the business of keeping the gangs in business, i.e. supplying
guns and things like that.
And what about the families of gang members? How do they not know what
their children are doing? I've used the example here before of my
former next door neighbors who had a teenage bike thief in the family. 
It seemed to me that the parents were always too busy arguing to
notice what their kids were doing.
So how do we combat all of that? 
Yesterday, I mentioned the issue of environment, and nobody responded
to that. I'll state that again. Asbury has many ugly and depressing
areas, particularly in the west side. Abandoned and boarded up
buildings, litter everywhere. It's very hard for a community to have
pride in itself when the very environment in which it exists is such a
mess. This is a proven fact, and it has been addressed in many cities
much bigger then ours.
Has Asbury ever had a community based volunteer program to clean up
our city? I'd volunteer for that if one existed. It would be nice to
work side by side and get to know people from other walks of life. I
could spare a couple of hours each week to help clean up our city.
I think kids need to be shown an alternative to being in a gang.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Good points Scott, and I'll add that ending segregation in the High 
> School will help too.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "asburycouple"  
> wrote:
> >
> > If you'd like to take credit for the obvious I'm cool with that. 
> > 
> > I don't think anyone has questioned that stepped up enforcement 
> and 
> > police presence is badly needed to deal with the immediate 
> problem. 
> > It can't be the only solution, though. The article you quote 
> below 
> > accurately frames the stepped up enforcement as "what is needed in 
> > the short-term". What is really needed is something that gets 
> > beyond an ongoing police vs. gang battle. We need a long term 
> plan 
> > that addresses both the immediate need to battle these gangs today 
> > with increased police presence and enforcement combined with plans 
> > and programs designed to prevent the next generation of potential 
> > gang members from making the choice to go in that direction. 
> Again, 
> > the article below clearly says that these kinds of programs are 
> > important.
> > 
> > Neither increased police or increased programs can succeed in a 
> > vaccum. They are both tactics desperately in need of a strategy. 
> > It is the lack of a real plan, and the venomous political 
> > environment that exists right now which may not allow one to 
> emerge, 
> > that worries me the most. When you are at war, those who don't 
> work 
> > together die together. We are clearly at war with these gangs.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > So the Press is saying the appropriate response to these 
> killings 
> > is 
> > > police cracking down, not recreation.
> > > 
> > > I wonder who was the first on this board to say that?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Fred"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Declare war on gangs, guns
> > > > Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 12/8/06
> > > > Another young person has been killed in Asbury Park, 
> triggering 
> > > > renewed calls for an end to the senseless violence, for the 
> > > community 
> > > > to pull together to combat it, and for expanded social 
> services, 
> > > job 
> > > > programs and recreational opportunities to help address the 
> root 
> > > > causes of the violence.
> > > > 
> > > > All those things are important. But what is needed most in the 
> > > short 
> > > > term is a bolstered, visible police presence — one dedicated 
> to 
> > > > getting guns, and those who illegally sell and possess them, 
> off 
> > > the 
> > > > streets.
> > > > 
> > > > The shooting death Tuesday night of a 21-year-old woman in 
> what 
> > > > authorities say was a gang