Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
On 10/3/05 10:58 PM, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To come to your conclusion Dan, you must ignore that Gary didn't > think he was talking about a subject of mere frivolity as you > suggest (Paris Hilton). To Gary, we are worse people than the > Europeans because of their great respect for art and our lack of > it. I'd say you were stretching it a bit there... Would you agree that if you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it? That's where I see art having its place. To teach us about the mistakes we make and help us from making them again. Too often throughout our history people have been told to keep quiet. It is the writers and the poets and the artists and the playwrights who refuse to abide with the silence. Television, as we have seen in the past few years, is all too pleased to remain silent. And fluff is the top selling entertainment. Maybe because the truth hurts. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
> Many things I assume, but I would have to judge each individually. But > short of saying all Americans suck, or that this is a terrible country > to live in, I don't think much. I certainly have not heard any bashing > on this forum. What makes you the arbiter of whether someone's > criticisms of aspects of our society or culture are unpatriotic or > anti-American? I think it stems from a culture of talk radio shows where people feel compelled to tell the host that he's a "good American". The man could be the most crooked person alive, but if he's on their side of the political spectrum - he's a good American... Apparently anyone that tries to hold an original thought in today's society is a bad American... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
To come to your conclusion Dan, you must ignore that Gary didn't think he was talking about a subject of mere frivolity as you suggest (Paris Hilton). To Gary, we are worse people than the Europeans because of their great respect for art and our lack of it. To Gary, this is one of the most important issues in the world, which is why he certainly was bashing Americans. As for asking me "what makes you the arbiter of what is America bashing," by coming to the opposite conclusion, are you not arbitrating the issue yourself? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > If saying what he said wasn't bashing America, what exactly would > > qualify as bashing America? > > Many things I assume, but I would have to judge each individually. But > short of saying all Americans suck, or that this is a terrible country > to live in, I don't think much. I certainly have not heard any bashing > on this forum. What makes you the arbiter of whether someone's > criticisms of aspects of our society or culture are unpatriotic or > anti-American? I saying that American society as a whole is obsessed > with youth and the supericial appearance of it unpatriotic? I think > Gary's observation that our society looks for the lowest common > denominator in entertainment is valid, how else can you explain the > popularity of Paris Hilton and some of the crap we watch? God help > this country when we can't criticize ourselves with being considered > unpatriotic, whatever that means. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If saying what he said wasn't bashing America, what exactly would > qualify as bashing America? Many things I assume, but I would have to judge each individually. But short of saying all Americans suck, or that this is a terrible country to live in, I don't think much. I certainly have not heard any bashing on this forum. What makes you the arbiter of whether someone's criticisms of aspects of our society or culture are unpatriotic or anti-American? I saying that American society as a whole is obsessed with youth and the supericial appearance of it unpatriotic? I think Gary's observation that our society looks for the lowest common denominator in entertainment is valid, how else can you explain the popularity of Paris Hilton and some of the crap we watch? God help this country when we can't criticize ourselves with being considered unpatriotic, whatever that means. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
If saying what he said wasn't bashing America, what exactly would qualify as bashing America? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Did you not read his post bashing Americans? Also, your use of that > > chestnut is way off. If is only appropriate if I'm boxing an answer > > in my questions. Below are clearly "either or" questions. > > > Tom, if not boxing questions then you certainly restate and reframe, > while twisting what someone says, and pose it in a question that you > don't even expect answer to. Another old cross exam trick, it doesn't > require an answer, the jury heard it. Withdrawn is what the attorney > usually responds quickly. > > Where did he bash Americans? he pointed out some shortcomings in > today's society as you and we all do. Are you bashing Americans when > you point out a criticism? You do not think that overall society is > obsessed now with the value of their home and a few years ago the > value of their stock portfolio? You live in such a narrowly defined > world. I think your afraid of freedom. Your America is a dark place, I > am glad I'm not part of it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did you not read his post bashing Americans? Also, your use of that > chestnut is way off. If is only appropriate if I'm boxing an answer > in my questions. Below are clearly "either or" questions. > Tom, if not boxing questions then you certainly restate and reframe, while twisting what someone says, and pose it in a question that you don't even expect answer to. Another old cross exam trick, it doesn't require an answer, the jury heard it. Withdrawn is what the attorney usually responds quickly. Where did he bash Americans? he pointed out some shortcomings in today's society as you and we all do. Are you bashing Americans when you point out a criticism? You do not think that overall society is obsessed now with the value of their home and a few years ago the value of their stock portfolio? You live in such a narrowly defined world. I think your afraid of freedom. Your America is a dark place, I am glad I'm not part of it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
I don't want to stop you from speaking; I just don't think I should be forced to pay for your microphone. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/3/05 7:06 PM, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Did you not read his post bashing Americans? > > You called me unpatriotic. Well, free speech is (currently) still a part of > the constitution. Patriots are supposed to follow the constitution are they > not? > > So, if you're against the free speech portion (as it relates to art) does > that mean you are unpatriotic? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
Dead wrong. Pat Fasano brought back the downtown; and it is because he built condos above the stores, not art galleries. Check with Stuart K to see if art "started" Jersey City's comeback. I seriously doubt it; construction of office buildings and condos did the trick. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/3/05 6:06 PM, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm not prepared to concede your premise, so I can't answer until you > > show me your proof that "virtually every town/city in America used the > > arts to be the first step in revitilization." > > How many towns / cities would you like me to list? Or how about just a few > New Jersey / NYC ones? Take a look at the revitalization of Brooklyn, > Jersey City and Lambertville. Or closer to home with Red Bank or even > closer - Asbury Park. Tell me that the downtown areas in these towns were > not largely revitalized due to the arts. > > I'd bet a wager that more people started coming to Asbury Park once the art > galleries sprung up, wouldn't you? > > > > By the way, didn't you just a couple of posts ago assert your complete > > contempt for Americans because they don't value art? Yet here you are > > now crediting virtually every revitialized town with respecting the > > arts. > > No, I think most people in charge are idiots because they watch the artists > make areas worth living in and then start forcing them out. And that has > happened in many of the towns listed above. For example, warehouses in > Jersey City that nobody used or wanted for decades became places where > artists lived and worked. Those same places (now fixed up and worth a lot > of money) have largely kicked the artists out. > > > > Pick a side. Are we good or bad? You with America or against her? > I'll quote a local artist on this one from a song I know you'd detest. > > "They say love her or leave her, > Well why can't I do both?" > -Rick Barry Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
On 10/3/05 7:06 PM, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did you not read his post bashing Americans? You called me unpatriotic. Well, free speech is (currently) still a part of the constitution. Patriots are supposed to follow the constitution are they not? So, if you're against the free speech portion (as it relates to art) does that mean you are unpatriotic? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
On 10/3/05 6:06 PM, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not prepared to concede your premise, so I can't answer until you > show me your proof that "virtually every town/city in America used the > arts to be the first step in revitilization." How many towns / cities would you like me to list? Or how about just a few New Jersey / NYC ones? Take a look at the revitalization of Brooklyn, Jersey City and Lambertville. Or closer to home with Red Bank or even closer - Asbury Park. Tell me that the downtown areas in these towns were not largely revitalized due to the arts. I'd bet a wager that more people started coming to Asbury Park once the art galleries sprung up, wouldn't you? > By the way, didn't you just a couple of posts ago assert your complete > contempt for Americans because they don't value art? Yet here you are > now crediting virtually every revitialized town with respecting the > arts. No, I think most people in charge are idiots because they watch the artists make areas worth living in and then start forcing them out. And that has happened in many of the towns listed above. For example, warehouses in Jersey City that nobody used or wanted for decades became places where artists lived and worked. Those same places (now fixed up and worth a lot of money) have largely kicked the artists out. > Pick a side. Are we good or bad? You with America or against her? I'll quote a local artist on this one from a song I know you'd detest. "They say love her or leave her, Well why can't I do both?" -Rick Barry Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
Did you not read his post bashing Americans? Also, your use of that chestnut is way off. If is only appropriate if I'm boxing an answer in my questions. Below are clearly "either or" questions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Pick a side. Are we good or bad? You with America or against her? > > > In other words Gary, "Do you still beat your wife?" Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Pick a side. Are we good or bad? You with America or against her? > In other words Gary, "Do you still beat your wife?" Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Blue: you never answered my question
I'm not prepared to concede your premise, so I can't answer until you show me your proof that "virtually every town/city in America used the arts to be the first step in revitilization." By the way, didn't you just a couple of posts ago assert your complete contempt for Americans because they don't value art? Yet here you are now crediting virtually every revitialized town with respecting the arts. Pick a side. Are we good or bad? You with America or against her? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If it's so bad to subsidize the arts then why has virtually every town/city > in America used the arts to be the first step in the revitilization of their > town? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
