[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
yes since there's nothing there --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > Are we planning a "new" area though? > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:47:38 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > Built 1914. The first zoning laws in the US were put in place in 1916 in NYC > and were a direct result of the building of 120 Broadway. Dont start with > stadiums. I have a lot of experience with those having been involved in > killing Jets Stadium in Manhattan. LAND GRAB. Do you really believe that > stadiums are compatible with residences? I can show you neighborhoods with > houses and factories. You think those are compatible? That was before > comprehensive zoning. And just because industrial areas get reclaimed > (Billyburg) and some like the mix (usually pioneers who eventually get priced > out by hipsters), doesnt mean you would actually plan a new area like that. > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > Ever been to Wrigleyville? > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when > > that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the > > plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next > > to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another > > when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the > > noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > > > Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, > > > which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert > > > venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. > > > > > > The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor > > > performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems > > > to be no future for that right now. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino > > > > site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be > > > > the main concern > > > > > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard > > > > during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and > > > > Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area > > > > is not going to help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > > > To: > > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, > > > > me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entert
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Ever been to Newark and PruCenter and PruPAC? Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Are we planning a "new" area though? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "dfsavgny" Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:47:38 To: Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Built 1914. The first zoning laws in the US were put in place in 1916 in NYC and were a direct result of the building of 120 Broadway. Dont start with stadiums. I have a lot of experience with those having been involved in killing Jets Stadium in Manhattan. LAND GRAB. Do you really believe that stadiums are compatible with residences? I can show you neighborhoods with houses and factories. You think those are compatible? That was before comprehensive zoning. And just because industrial areas get reclaimed (Billyburg) and some like the mix (usually pioneers who eventually get priced out by hipsters), doesnt mean you would actually plan a new area like that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > Ever been to Wrigleyville? > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when > that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan > says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an > entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they > are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see > very few condos in the heart of times square. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, > > which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue > > is indoors and likely sound proofed. > > > > The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor > > performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to > > be no future for that right now. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site > > > is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the > > > main concern > > > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during > > > any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock > > > and hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is > > > not going to help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer > > > > stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly > > > > outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all > > > > Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > >
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Built 1914. The first zoning laws in the US were put in place in 1916 in NYC and were a direct result of the building of 120 Broadway. Dont start with stadiums. I have a lot of experience with those having been involved in killing Jets Stadium in Manhattan. LAND GRAB. Do you really believe that stadiums are compatible with residences? I can show you neighborhoods with houses and factories. You think those are compatible? That was before comprehensive zoning. And just because industrial areas get reclaimed (Billyburg) and some like the mix (usually pioneers who eventually get priced out by hipsters), doesnt mean you would actually plan a new area like that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > Ever been to Wrigleyville? > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when > that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan > says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an > entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they > are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see > very few condos in the heart of times square. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, > > which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue > > is indoors and likely sound proofed. > > > > The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor > > performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to > > be no future for that right now. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site > > > is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the > > > main concern > > > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during > > > any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock > > > and hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is > > > not going to help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer > > > > stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly > > > > outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all > > > > Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > > To: > > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > > > I do not think its clear
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Ever been to Wrigleyville? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "dfsavgny" Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 To: Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, > which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is > indoors and likely sound proofed. > > The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor > performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to > be no future for that right now. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site > > is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main > > concern > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during > > any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and > > hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is > > not going to help. > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok > > with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build > > residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > > certain areas. > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider > > > what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to > > > have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean > > > Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same > > > blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I personally feel the outdoor stage should be eliminated very soon anyway. Those shows aren't true Stone Pony shows. They're parking lot shows next to the Stone Pony. The real Stone Pony shows are the ones that use the stage and the venue itself. There are ways to soundproof the venue and build around it. You can have a wedding with a band at the Berkeley (or many other hotels around the world) and the guests staying in the rooms will not be affected by the noise. Thanks for the info on the email and postal addresses for comments, much appreciated. As well as the work you've done. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when > that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan > says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an > entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they > are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see > very few condos in the heart of times square. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, > > which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue > > is indoors and likely sound proofed. > > > > The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor > > performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to > > be no future for that right now. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site > > > is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the > > > main concern > > > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during > > > any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock > > > and hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is > > > not going to help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > . But who would not want a 1st class outdoor theater on the beachfront as part of the Casino rebuilding? People that live in OG Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Thanks Dan for your time, expertise and responses. In the meantime, I'm gonna enjoy what's here today. Hopefully I-Star creates a great combination for the future, incorporating the bits and pieces of AP past into the concept. And they have to. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, > which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is > indoors and likely sound proofed. > > The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor > performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to > be no future for that right now. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site > > is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main > > concern > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during > > any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and > > hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is > > not going to help. > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok > > with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build > > residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > > certain areas. > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider > > > what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to > > > have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean > > > Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same > > > blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) > > > residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > > > > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so > > > keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are > > > recomme
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
To me the idea of an outdoor concert stage is bad for businees anyway... at least for the business of the venue itself. I've attended quite a few "Stone Pony concerts" at Watermark, Langosta, and the boardwalk benches. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > I live at Asbury and Bond and hear nothing during the concerts. But who would > not want a 1st class outdoor theater on the beachfront as part of the Casino > rebuilding? Jones Beach Theatre is not too shabby. > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > That is something I can get on board with... > > > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site > > is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main > > concern > > > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during > > any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and > > hear almost every concert very clearly. > > > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is > > not going to help. > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok > > with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build > > residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > > certain areas. > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider > > > what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to > > > have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean > > > Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same > > > blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) > > > residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > > > > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so > > > keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are > > > recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in > > > developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be > > > moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending > > > is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head > > > north and to make the most intense
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to be no future for that right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > That is something I can get on board with... > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is > going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main > concern > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any > Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear > almost every concert very clearly. > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not > going to help. > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with > leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences > next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > certain areas. > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's > > compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have > > intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how > > could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if > > you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not > > all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so > > keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are > > recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in > > developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be > > moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is > > that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north > > and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > > > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > > > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > >
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I live at Asbury and Bond and hear nothing during the concerts. But who would not want a 1st class outdoor theater on the beachfront as part of the Casino rebuilding? Jones Beach Theatre is not too shabby. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > That is something I can get on board with... > > I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is > going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main > concern > > If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any > Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear > almost every concert very clearly. > > Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not > going to help. > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with > leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences > next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > certain areas. > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's > > compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have > > intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how > > could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if > > you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not > > all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so > > keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are > > recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in > > developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be > > moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is > > that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north > > and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > > > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > > > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > > > > > > > > >
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Thanks Dan. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > asburyplanningatgmaildotcom > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional > > feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > > asburyplanning@gmail. <mailto:asburyplanning@> com > > <mailto:asburyplanning@> or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, > > Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" wrote: > > > > > > Could you fix that email address? > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" dfsavgny@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the > > choir. The official venue is > > > > > > > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional > > feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > > asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP > > Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually > > (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena > > portion would make a great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony > > concerts could be held. But the original building should never be > > considered for relocation. > > > > > > > > > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the > > Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, > > points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: > > > > > > > > > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its > > present location should be removed. > > > > > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on > > the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be > > established for this area. > > > > > > > > > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not > > significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the > > site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an > > outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has > > gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it > > should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer > > Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the > > road. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we > > (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non > > summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site > > (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, > > and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > > &
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
http://www.app.com/article/20110919/NJNEWS/309190060/Park-use-urged-tract-Asbury --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > asburyplanningatgmaildotcom > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional > > feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > > asburyplanning@gmail. <mailto:asburyplanning@> com > > <mailto:asburyplanning@> or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, > > Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" wrote: > > > > > > Could you fix that email address? > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" dfsavgny@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the > > choir. The official venue is > > > > > > > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional > > feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > > asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP > > Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually > > (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena > > portion would make a great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony > > concerts could be held. But the original building should never be > > considered for relocation. > > > > > > > > > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the > > Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, > > points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: > > > > > > > > > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its > > present location should be removed. > > > > > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on > > the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be > > established for this area. > > > > > > > > > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not > > significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the > > site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an > > outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has > > gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it > > should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer > > Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the > > road. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we > > (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non > > summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site > > (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, > > and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > &
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "dfsavgny" Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > usage) an option being discussed? > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on > that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain > areas. > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree > that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean > is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's compatible > and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense > entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you > develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed > then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the > blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping > in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending > that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to > what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino > site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become > less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses > be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > > > > > > > Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman > > > > avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but > > > > perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. > > > We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at > > > the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an > > > independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on > > > traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big pub
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
asburyplanningatgmaildotcom --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional > feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > asburyplanning@gmail. <mailto:asburyplanning@...> com > <mailto:asburyplanning@...> or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, > Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" wrote: > > > > Could you fix that email address? > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" dfsavgny@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the > choir. The official venue is > > > > > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional > feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP > Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" > wrote: > > > > > > > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually > (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena > portion would make a great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony > concerts could be held. But the original building should never be > considered for relocation. > > > > > > > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the > Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, > points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: > > > > > > > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its > present location should be removed. > > > > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on > the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be > established for this area. > > > > > > > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not > significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the > site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an > outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has > gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it > should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer > Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the > road. > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we > (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non > summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site > (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, > and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > > > > To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think > it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense > entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned > its lesson as
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@gmail. <mailto:asburyplann...@gmail.com> com <mailto:asburyplann...@gmail.com> or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" wrote: > > Could you fix that email address? > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" dfsavgny@ wrote: > > > > > > Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is > > > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. > > > > > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: > > > > > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. > > > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. > > > > > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > > > To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. > > > > > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consi
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I do not want to say you are wasting your time making comments here, but if you are in lieu of making written comments to the committee then you are in fact wasting an opportunity to be heard. No one is drowning out your voices. Please make all comments to the committee in writing (and here if you wish). Don't let this chance to be heard go wasted. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" wrote: > > I live a block away from the Stone Pony and have no problem with the Summer > Stage events, other than unruly patrons wandering around residential > neighborhoods. > On the other hand, the Sunday night dance parties at Paradise are incredibly > loud and they aren't always very good neighbors about it. > I'm a professional sound engineer, and I measured the volume in my living > room from one of these events at 90 db in my living room. They are also > required to stop these shows at 10 pm, and on several occasions have gone on > past 10:15 pm. > That being said, I've heard that a condo development was slated for the lot's > on the west side of Kingsley between 1st and AP Ave. I can't see how that's > going to work out on the boarder of an entertainment zone. > The Stone Pony in another location simply isn't The Stone Pony. Developers > who want to relocate it, or portions of it are just marginalizing it to a > brand name. Do we really want the Stone Pony to become the Original Ray's > Pizza of AP? > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I > > hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a > > great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. > > But the original building should never be considered for relocation. > > > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony > > in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and > > five of the Committee's reccomendation: > > > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present > > location should be removed. > > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the > > Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established > > for this area. > > > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not > > significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the > > site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an > > outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has > > gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should > > specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so > > that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer > > > > stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly > > > > outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all > > > > Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > > To: > > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was > > > > the concerns I had which is the incompa
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Could you fix that email address? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The > official venue is > > The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: > cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback > and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to > asburyplanning@... or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP > Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I > > hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a > > great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. > > But the original building should never be considered for relocation. > > > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony > > in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and > > five of the Committee's reccomendation: > > > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present > > location should be removed. > > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the > > Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established > > for this area. > > > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not > > significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the > > site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an > > outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has > > gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should > > specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so > > that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our > > > recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem > > > with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you > > > soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony > > > moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see > > > how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer > > > > stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly > > > > outdoor usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all > > > > Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > > To: > > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was > > > > the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense > > > > entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City > > > > learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper > > > > zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. > > > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be > > > > the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are > > > > allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. > > > > So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman > > > > and Asbury and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to > > > > consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you > > > > wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer > > > >
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplann...@gmail.com or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I > hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a > great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But > the original building should never be considered for relocation. > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in > general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of > the Committee's reccomendation: > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present > location should be removed. > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the > Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for > this area. > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant > to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should > be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with > the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the > Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated > as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as > to what can happen to it down the road. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok > > with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build > > residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > > certain areas. > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider > > > what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to > > > have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean > > > Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same > > > blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) > > > residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > > > > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so > > > keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are > > > recommending that the Pony building st
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I live a block away from the Stone Pony and have no problem with the Summer Stage events, other than unruly patrons wandering around residential neighborhoods. On the other hand, the Sunday night dance parties at Paradise are incredibly loud and they aren't always very good neighbors about it. I'm a professional sound engineer, and I measured the volume in my living room from one of these events at 90 db in my living room. They are also required to stop these shows at 10 pm, and on several occasions have gone on past 10:15 pm. That being said, I've heard that a condo development was slated for the lot's on the west side of Kingsley between 1st and AP Ave. I can't see how that's going to work out on the boarder of an entertainment zone. The Stone Pony in another location simply isn't The Stone Pony. Developers who want to relocate it, or portions of it are just marginalizing it to a brand name. Do we really want the Stone Pony to become the Original Ray's Pizza of AP? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I > hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a > great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But > the original building should never be considered for relocation. > > My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in > general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of > the Committee's reccomendation: > > 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present > location should be removed. > 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the > Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for > this area. > > This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant > to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should > be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with > the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the > Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated > as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as > to what can happen to it down the road. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok > > with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build > > residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: "dfsavgny" > > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > > To: > > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > > certain areas. > > > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider > > > what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wan
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great "Stone Pony Theatre" where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, > city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation > that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior > performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. > Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with > leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences > next to it. These are my personal opinions. > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: > > > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > > usage) an option being discussed? > > > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -Original Message- > > From: "dfsavgny" > > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > > To: > > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well > > on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in > > certain areas. > > > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we > > agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury > > and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's > > compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have > > intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how > > could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if > > you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not > > all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so > > keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are > > recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in > > developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be > > moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is > > that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north > > and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > > > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > > > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > >
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: > > So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage > usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor > usage) an option being discussed? > > Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony > entertainment being moved to Casino site? > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: "dfsavgny" > Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 > To: > Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? > > I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the > concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and > residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on > that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain > areas. > > In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the > heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed > almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree > that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean > is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's compatible > and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense > entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you > develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed > then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the > blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. > > That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping > in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending > that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to > what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino > site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become > less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses > be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > > > > > > > Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman > > > > avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but > > > > perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. > > > We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at > > > the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an > > > independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on > > > traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. > > > We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind > > > how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. > > > Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic > > > consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the > > > documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only > > > recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "dfsavgny" Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > > > > > Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue > > > closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps > > > there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? > > > Thank you > > > > > > > If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. > > We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the > > end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent > > traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The > > developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we > > already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we > > approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do > > not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So > > in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the > > committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic > > consultant and the city engineer look into it. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called "ground zero", then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" wrote: > > Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as > removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been > explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > > > > > Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue > > > closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps > > > there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? > > > Thank you > > > > > > > If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. > > We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the > > end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent > > traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The > > developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we > > already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we > > approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do > > not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So > > in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the > > committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic > > consultant and the city engineer look into it. > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Oak, you missed the point. It is ALL prime real estate, most of which has been vacant for years and years. My concern that I expressed is the pattern of removing viable businesses with empty lots. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" wrote: > > The Big Dig. > > tunnel it. > > or raise the "plaza". > > How much would that be worth by vacating streets and does the city get any $. > > And if the character of the Pony were recreated, either at current site in a > new, safer building, would that be so bad? If springsteen were to play in a > "new" pony, would people line-up or boycott it? > > By the way, the old man was on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon last night. > Great performance. > > While the WB is great, the doggie bar unfortunately is prime real estate. > Maybe someone would leave the ground space open for an open air bar and build > above it. > > Considering I'm 50 now, we're not really planning that much for us, but for > the next few rounds or party animals, investors, residents and tourists. Our > days our numbered. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
The Big Dig. tunnel it. or raise the "plaza". How much would that be worth by vacating streets and does the city get any $. And if the character of the Pony were recreated, either at current site in a new, safer building, would that be so bad? If springsteen were to play in a "new" pony, would people line-up or boycott it? By the way, the old man was on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon last night. Great performance. While the WB is great, the doggie bar unfortunately is prime real estate. Maybe someone would leave the ground space open for an open air bar and build above it. Considering I'm 50 now, we're not really planning that much for us, but for the next few rounds or party animals, investors, residents and tourists. Our days our numbered. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" wrote: > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > > > Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue > > closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there > > is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? > > Thank you > > > > If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We > essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, > just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic > consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's > idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one > further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire > process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a > chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what > maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really > rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the > city engineer look into it. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote: > > Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue > closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is > a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? > Thank you > If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
