Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Jersey Shore John]

But Mario: They're over there fighting for FREEDOM. Unfortunately,  
it's just Iraqi freedom (and schools and infrastructure and universal  
healthcare) not ours, silly. Get with the program!



On Sep 4, 2007, at 1:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 9/4/2007 11:56:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Oh Jesus, here we go again...(sorry, I couldn't resist)
Don't resist.

The kind preaching is specious talk. Deceptively attractive and  
appealing, but doesn't support the troops to keep sending them to  
mutilation and death in a war of choice by an incompetent  
politician, a "pre-emptive war" in the wrong country which has  
incited more terrorism world-wide.
God Bless The American Troops, and protect them from the enemy and  
from domestic political opinions.   KB

Protect them from political opinions?  How un-American is that?

Millions died in just and legitimate wars to protect the access to  
all opinions.


You want to support the troops?  Then listen to them 18 months ago.

Click here: Zogby International

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq  
think ...
While 89% of reserves and 82% of those in the National Guard said  
the U.S. should ...
Three quarters of the troops had served multiple tours and had a  
longer exposure to the conflict




Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[MarioAPNJ]

 
In a message dated 9/4/2007 11:56:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Oh Jesus,  here we go again...(sorry, I couldn't resist)
Don't resist.  
 
The kind preaching is specious talk. Deceptively attractive and  appealing, 
but doesn't support the troops to keep sending them to mutilation and  death in 
a war of choice by an incompetent politician, a "pre-emptive war" in  the 
wrong country which has incited more terrorism world-wide.

God Bless  The American Troops, and protect them  from the enemy and from 
domestic political opinions.KB
Protect them from political opinions?  How un-American is that?
 
Millions died in just and legitimate wars to protect the access to all  
opinions.
 
You want to support the troops?  Then listen to them 18 months  ago.  
 
 
_Click here: Zogby  International_ 
(http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075)  
 
An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think  ...

While 89% of reserves and 82% of those in the National Guard said the U.S.  
should ...
Three  quarters of the troops had served multiple tours and had a longer 
exposure to  the conflict




** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Jersey Shore John]

Except Congress never declared war.

H. Funny that.

"The war happened because when Bush first indicated his intention to  
go to war against Iraq, Congress refused to insist on enforcement of  
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. For more than 200 years,  
this article has spelled out that Congress -- not the president --  
shall have "the power to declare war." Because the Constitution  
cannot be amended by persistent evasion, this constitutional mandate  
was not erased by the actions of timid Congresses since World War II  
that allowed eager presidents to start wars in Vietnam and elsewhere  
without a "declaration" by Congress."


On Sep 4, 2007, at 11:51 AM, Kevin Brown wrote:


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gary Wien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol' commandment "Thou
> Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time. That commandment
never
> says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that, it's
pretty
> specific.
>
> Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect in the
last
> 100 years or so.
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:
>
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario"  wrote:
> >
> > > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott
>Mit
> > Uns"
> > > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm skeptical
> > >that
> > > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after
year
> > >means
> > > anything in terms of real support.
> >
> > To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go into
> > battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to
feel a
> > closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being
just, to
> > be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
> >
> >
> >
>

Let no man think he understands the ways and means of God, but let
all men seek Him for understanding.

The pivotal point in the salvation & redemption plan of the soul and
eternity of man was the event on Calvary. God made that plan to save
us to Himself. The act required was the spilling of innocent blood.
To our mind that is "murder" in the plan of God is was sacrifice.

Now I don't boast that I know it all, nor do I hold it sacred that I
know all there is to know about God, The Father, but I rest in the
assurance that God knows it all when it comes to me.

The issue is trust, not human rights, but eternal justice.

Who among us is wise enough to win this debate? Not I! As for my
house, we shall serve the Lord.

The men and women of the armed forces, are ordered to war and trained
to kill or be killed. What I have always admired about the American
military philosophy was that it did not kill in the name of God, it
killed in the name of Congress. (A Declaration of War)

God Bless The American Troops, and protect them from the enemy and
from domestic political opinions.

KB

[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Hinge]

Oh Jesus, here we go again...(sorry, I couldn't resist)

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gary Wien  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol' commandment "Thou  
> > Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time.  That commandment 
> never  
> > says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that, it's 
> pretty  
> > specific.
> > 
> > Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect in the 
> last  
> > 100 years or so.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > > > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott 
> >Mit
> > > Uns"
> > > > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm skeptical
> > > >that
> > > > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after 
> year
> > > >means
> > > > anything in terms of real support.
> > >
> > > To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go into
> > > battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to 
> feel a
> > > closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being 
> just, to
> > > be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> Let no man think he understands the ways and means of God, but let 
> all men seek Him for understanding.
> 
> The pivotal point in the salvation & redemption plan of the soul and 
> eternity of man was the event on Calvary.  God made that plan to save 
> us to Himself.  The act required was the spilling of innocent blood.  
> To our mind that is "murder" in the plan of God is was sacrifice.
> 
> Now I don't boast that I know it all, nor do I hold it sacred that I 
> know all there is to know about God, The Father, but I rest in the 
> assurance that God knows it all when it comes to me.
> 
> The issue is trust, not human rights, but eternal justice.
> 
> Who among us is wise enough to win this debate?  Not I!  As for my 
> house, we shall serve the Lord.
> 
> The men and women of the armed forces, are ordered to war and trained 
> to kill or be killed.  What I have always admired about the American 
> military philosophy was that it did not kill in the name of God, it 
> killed in the name of Congress. (A Declaration of War)
> 
> God Bless The American Troops, and protect them from the enemy and 
> from domestic political opinions.
> 
> KB
>




 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Kevin Brown]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gary Wien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol' commandment "Thou  
> Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time.  That commandment 
never  
> says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that, it's 
pretty  
> specific.
> 
> Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect in the 
last  
> 100 years or so.
> 
> 
> On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:
> 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario"  wrote:
> >
> > > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott 
>Mit
> > Uns"
> > > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm skeptical
> > >that
> > > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after 
year
> > >means
> > > anything in terms of real support.
> >
> > To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go into
> > battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to 
feel a
> > closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being 
just, to
> > be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
> >
> >
> >
>

Let no man think he understands the ways and means of God, but let 
all men seek Him for understanding.

The pivotal point in the salvation & redemption plan of the soul and 
eternity of man was the event on Calvary.  God made that plan to save 
us to Himself.  The act required was the spilling of innocent blood.  
To our mind that is "murder" in the plan of God is was sacrifice.

Now I don't boast that I know it all, nor do I hold it sacred that I 
know all there is to know about God, The Father, but I rest in the 
assurance that God knows it all when it comes to me.

The issue is trust, not human rights, but eternal justice.

Who among us is wise enough to win this debate?  Not I!  As for my 
house, we shall serve the Lord.

The men and women of the armed forces, are ordered to war and trained 
to kill or be killed.  What I have always admired about the American 
military philosophy was that it did not kill in the name of God, it 
killed in the name of Congress. (A Declaration of War)

God Bless The American Troops, and protect them from the enemy and 
from domestic political opinions.

KB



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[dfsavgny]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal.  To go into 
> battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to feel a 
> closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being just, to 
> be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
>

Sorry, but as JC showed you'll have to leave your Christianity home,
even in self defense. Maybe that is why it is such a narrow road. Just
ask Gandhi.



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[justifiedright]

You've zeroed in on the point Gary.  Nice job.  

Almost every combat soldier in the history of the US has faced the 
same peronal dilemma:  To kill, when the nature of himself is not to 
kill.  The way a soldier pulls the trigger, they way he does not 
hesitate, is to be secure in the justification of his cause.

The righteous justifictaion each soldier has in Iraq today is in 
fighting the global war on terror.  Those reasons I listed earlier 
in the thread showed Saddam and his regime were international 
terrorists.

He harboured Nidal, Abbass, al-qeada, funded suicide bombers and 
tried to kill a US presdient. The lowest estimate accepted by the 
detractors of the war say 5% of the fighting enemy there is al-
qaeda.   That's a big chunck of al-qeada.

Every Democrat and Republican who are now trying to avoid Iraq all 
knew of Saddam's connection to International Terrorism the day they 
cast their vote to go in.  Nothing changed about that.

There were no WMD's found.  That's one reason we went in.  Saddam 
and the Iraqi regime being terrorists is not lessened by that.  They 
deserve destruction for their role in terrorism.

The backing away from Iraq because of the WMD issue is pure 
politics.  To ignore the terrorism problem is politics.

How do you think a solider in the field, with a human target dialed 
in and finger on the trigger feels when he gets reports from home 
about people questioning his justification?  Supported or not 
supported?  It's not helping him steel himself to the fight; it's to 
the contrary, so it is not support.

Every perons who ignores Nidal, Abbass, al-qeada in Iraq and the 
payments to suicide bombers by Saddam, who plays partisan politics 
with the war effort, is not supporting the troops.

I want terrorism wiped out.  I don't ever want to see Americans make 
the hobson's choice of buring to death or jumping 80 stories to 
their death.

I support the troops.  Their cause is just.  Tell them I said so.  
Tell them I said God be with them.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gary Wien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol' commandment "Thou  
> Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time.  That commandment 
never  
> says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that, it's 
pretty  
> specific.
> 
> Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect in the 
last  
> 100 years or so.
> 
> 
> On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:
> 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario"  wrote:
> >
> > > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; 
and "Gott >Mit
> > Uns"
> > > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm skeptical
> > >that
> > > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after 
year
> > >means
> > > anything in terms of real support.
> >
> > To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go into
> > battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to 
feel a
> > closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being 
just, to
> > be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
> >
> >
> >
>




 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Gary Wien]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol' commandment "Thou  
Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time.  That commandment never  
says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that, it's pretty  
specific.


Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect in the last  
100 years or so.



On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott >Mit
Uns"
> (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm skeptical
>that
> simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after year
>means
> anything in terms of real support.

To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go into
battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to feel a
closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being just, to
be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.

[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[2fine4u]

If you build it, they will come!  That includes me!  A "Feel-Good" 
Church!  I like that!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/2/2007 11:26:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: People do not gain 501 (c) 3 status,
> charitable and religious organization do.   I understand that, but 
the
> title "reverend" permits one to establish such an entity.  And these
> folks explain much in layman's terms for me .  Click here: Tax 
Reporting
> for Houses of Worship
>    You can not 
mix
> apples with oranges, this is why the orange has the right not to be 
red
> or green to remain a bona fide orange.  Nor is the apple blamed for 
the
> orange not tasting the same, even though they are both fruit.
> Gobbledygook (or the conservative sin of "relativism")?  Or, wait!  
> Critics of the government not to intimidated by its supporters 
because
> they're all citizens? to remain a bona fide orange.  But I really am
> still curious what a bona fide religious group is?  I remember all 
those
> contentious cases with scientology, marijuana churches, churches
> requiring ritual slaughter of animals in Manhattan, something about 
an
> enema church in AP, et al.   If you'd listed all the "various"
> credentialing places,  I might consider enrolling.  I've already had
> over 16 years of theological instruction.  Then I could pontificate 
from
> a pulpit somewhere instead of just here. And I could "Bless 
this"
> and "Bless that,"  and "Bless Here and There"   I'd like to 
Bless
> all Asbury Park residents and home owners, many who've made this 
town
> their home through bad and worse times and are praying for this
> Renaissance.  I'd Bless residents who report good news and those 
who are
> gadflies and critics in the best interest of AP.  If I found a 
building
> suitable for a church, I would not declare any tax exemptions: 
Christ
> said to pay Caesar.  I'd Bless non-residents who still sincerely 
believe
> AP can work.   If the zoning board hassled me, I'd preach wherever
> people would listen; not waste taxpayers' money in litigation.   I'd
> preach about Hell, Fire and Damnation to outsiders who post here 
usually
> to reiterate crime stories and their own politics, belying their 
charity
> and righteousness.   And I'd even be able to sign off as   Rev. 
Mario
> God Bless us, one and ALL.
>




 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Jersey Shore John]

Unfortunately for 'the troop', Jesus did not reconcile the killing  
with religious belief.

"The ancient doctrine of "just war" should aid Christians in making  
such judgments. War must be a last resort; the authority waging war  
must be legitimate; the force employed must be proportional to the  
injury; non-combatants must not to be targeted; the war must be  
fought to redress a wrong; there must be a reasonable chance of  
success; the ultimate goal must be to reestablish peace.  
Unfortunately, however, though these principles are sound, they have  
been routinely used by war advocates to justify even the most dubious  
conflicts. Including Iraq.

http://tinyurl.com/33b6l2
Instead of critically reviewing the case for and against invading  
that nation, many evangelicals blithely accepted the Bush  
administration's war rationale. They implicitly trusted the  
president, their co-religionist, relying on the administration's  
dubious (and quickly discredited) claims.

For instance, Prison Fellowship founder Charles Colson cited  
administration arguments in explaining that just war theory should be  
"stretched" to include preemption of terrorism. He added: "Of course,  
all of this presupposes solid intelligence and the goodwill of U.S.  
and Western leaders." Alas, it turns out that such intelligence was  
entirely lacking.

Richard Land pointed to Hussein's development "at breakneck speed of  
weapons of mass destruction he plans to use against America and her  
allies" and the "direct line from those who attacked the U.S. [on  
9/11] back to the nation of Iraq." Of course, both claims were false.

Other evangelical leaders made a humanitarian case for war. James  
Dobson argued that "we are faced with another brutal tyrant. Saddam  
Hussein must be stopped. Appeasement of tyrants is never successful."  
Gary Bauer, Chairman of Campaign for Working Families, observed that  
"Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a hell hole of torture and mass murder"  
and that "he allowed Iraq to become a safe haven for terrorists."

Rev. Falwell entitled one article "God is Pro-War." Until Christ's  
return, he contended, "Christians must live as Galatians 6:2  
instructs: 'Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of  
Christ'." Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's First Baptist Church,  
argued that there are "biblical grounds" for a government to go to  
war "to liberate others in the world who are enslaved."

Scripture does tell believers to lay down their lives for others. But  
it does not instruct Christians to lay down other people's lives, as  
in taking the nation into war. Believers get no credit from  
instructing other people to do the sacrificing. Moreover, the  
consequences of the Iraq war and occupation – horrific violence and  
hundreds of thousands of deaths – is anything but humanitarian."




On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:

> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott >Mit
> Uns"
> > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm skeptical
> >that
> > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after year
> >means
> > anything in terms of real support.
>
> To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go into
> battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to feel a
> closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being just, to
> be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
>
>
> 



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[justifiedright]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott >Mit 
Uns"
> (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII.  So I'm skeptical 
>that
> simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after year 
>means
> anything in terms of real support. 

To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal.  To go into 
battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want to feel a 
closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being just, to 
be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief. 



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Mario]

In a message dated 9/3/2007 3:24:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To call you Reverend Mario, is no big thing. 
OK.  If you say so.  You're entitled.   I thought it was a big thing
because I've had on my mind recent comments by Christopher  Hitchens:  
It's "amazing what you can get away with in this country when you call
yourself 'reverend.' "   Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers; and "Gott Mit Uns"
(God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII.  So I'm skeptical that
simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year after year means
anything in terms of real support. Hitchens was a fervent supporter
of the Iraq invasion and a friend to Richard Pearl, so no pinko charges
apply. And the right often challenges and ridicules  the "reverend"
status of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.   I fully understand what I am
called to do... Fine.   But don't expect any posts here which rely
solely on "your" understanding of God (as the definitive answer to our
discussions) to go unchallenged because they are "inspired" by any
special insight.   Cordiali saluti,

[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Kevin Brown]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

But I really am still curious what a bona fide religious group is?  I 
remember all those contentious cases with scientology, marijuana 
churches, churches requiring ritual slaughter of animals in 
Manhattan, something about an enema church in AP, et al.
 
If you'd listed all the "various" credentialing places,  I might 
consider enrolling.  I've already had over 16 years of theological 
instruction.  Then I could pontificate from a pulpit somewhere 
instead of just here.  
 
And I could "Bless this" and "Bless that,"  and "Bless Here and 
There"
 
I'd like to Bless all Asbury Park residents and home owners, many 
who've made this town their home through bad and worse times and are 
praying for this Renaissance.  I'd Bless residents who report good 
news and those who are gadflies and critics in the best interest of 
AP.  If I found a building suitable for a church, I would not declare 
any tax exemptions: Christ said to pay Caesar.  I'd Bless non-
residents who still sincerely believe AP can work.
 
If the zoning board hassled me, I'd preach wherever people would 
listen; not waste taxpayers' money in litigation.
 
I'd preach about Hell, Fire and Damnation to outsiders who post here 
usually to reiterate crime stories and their own politics, belying 
their charity and righteousness.
 
And I'd even be able to sign off as

XX

The more important element in a minister's life is his call.  Without 
one, you labor in vain.

You have a legal right to do all the things you listed above in this 
country.  What you need is the calling of God, without it you 
wouldn't last long.

The one thing most pronounce in the 26 years I have spent in this, is 
that without the Spirit of God in and with you, you will fail!

To call you Reverend Mario, is no big thing.  To be a servant of the 
Lord is another matter.  Hence, the remark; "levitas Hasnonium 
pulsatus vos etiamnunc."

I fully understand what I am called to do, and I do it as best as I 
am able.  I don't need you to understand, because it won't be you I 
stand before at judgement, nor will it be you who grants it.

Proverbs 14:8 
 
 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way; But the folly of 
fools is deceit.

KB





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Mario]

In a message dated 9/2/2007 11:26:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: People do not gain 501 (c) 3 status,
charitable and religious organization do.   I understand that, but the
title "reverend" permits one to establish such an entity.  And these
folks explain much in layman's terms for me .  Click here: Tax Reporting
for Houses of Worship
   You can not mix
apples with oranges, this is why the orange has the right not to be red
or green to remain a bona fide orange.  Nor is the apple blamed for the
orange not tasting the same, even though they are both fruit.
Gobbledygook (or the conservative sin of "relativism")?  Or, wait!  
Critics of the government not to intimidated by its supporters because
they're all citizens? to remain a bona fide orange.  But I really am
still curious what a bona fide religious group is?  I remember all those
contentious cases with scientology, marijuana churches, churches
requiring ritual slaughter of animals in Manhattan, something about an
enema church in AP, et al.   If you'd listed all the "various"
credentialing places,  I might consider enrolling.  I've already had
over 16 years of theological instruction.  Then I could pontificate from
a pulpit somewhere instead of just here. And I could "Bless this"
and "Bless that,"  and "Bless Here and There"   I'd like to Bless
all Asbury Park residents and home owners, many who've made this town
their home through bad and worse times and are praying for this
Renaissance.  I'd Bless residents who report good news and those who are
gadflies and critics in the best interest of AP.  If I found a building
suitable for a church, I would not declare any tax exemptions: Christ
said to pay Caesar.  I'd Bless non-residents who still sincerely believe
AP can work.   If the zoning board hassled me, I'd preach wherever
people would listen; not waste taxpayers' money in litigation.   I'd
preach about Hell, Fire and Damnation to outsiders who post here usually
to reiterate crime stories and their own politics, belying their charity
and righteousness.   And I'd even be able to sign off as   Rev. Mario
God Bless us, one and ALL. 

[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Kevin Brown]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 9/2/2007 6:10:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
 
> But I don't get any IRS 501 tax exemptions as reverends do.  
>  
> And if someone wanted to donate to "free Werner," he or she can't 
claim it  
> as a deduction.
>  
> And the subject of our tax dollars has been raised here more than  
once.
>  
> Happy to drop it you wish.

Mario:

People do not gain 501 (c) 3 status, charitable and religious 
organization do.  You can not mix apples with oranges, this is why 
the orange has the right not to be red or green to remain a bona fide 
orange.  Nor is the apple blamed for the orange not tasting the same, 
even though they are both fruit.

and if Werner is in Jail, why haven't you run to your brother and 
bailed him out? 

Drop what? You can ask anything you want, it does not mean I have to 
account to any man.  I account to God and God alone.  So do what ever 
you think you have too, I am not the least bit concerned about it.

DISCLAIMER:  My opinions are not necessarily the opinions of any 
organization I belong too, or persons I affiliate with, nor is my 
puppy responsible for my personality, antics and downright free 
spirit.





 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[MarioAPNJ]

 
In a message dated 9/2/2007 6:10:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

and your  point. Was there anything there you are disputing or  challenging?
 
Just asking because there's "no there there" after CUNY, except  "various"
 

Have you  posted as much information about yourself, anywhere on the public  
forum?
 
Yup.  _http://profiles.yahoo.com/marioapnj_ 
(http://profiles.yahoo.com/marioapnj) 
 
But I don't get any IRS 501 tax exemptions as reverends do.  
 
And if someone wanted to donate to "free Werner," he or she can't claim it  
as a deduction.
 
And the subject of our tax dollars has been raised here more than  once.
 
Happy to drop it you wish.
 




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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[Kevin Brown]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  In a message dated 8/31/2007 9:05:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:GOD IS A CONSERVATIVE, MY PROOF, LIGHTNING
> HASN'T STRUCK YOU YET!
> Help me out: The above may be so, but using ALL CAPS is not 
convincing
> enough.   One of your sites claims your movement is faith based, not
> politically based.  Faith in Christ.It also says you purposefully 
remain
> "independent of party affiliation...he maintains an independent, non
> affiliated position to remain above the fray we experience in a 
National
> Culture dividing itself into Liberal and Conservative 
segmentsHis
> personal political position is plainly centered and leans minimally 
in
> both directions. Self admitted he leans conservative on fiscal
> issues..."Is the above just perfunctory--to satisfy the IRS 501(c)3 
tax
> exemptions? If not, why inject your politics here and especially the
> un-Christ-like vitriol toward those who have differing opinions 
about
> the JSRM, Dem v Repubs,  et al.  You seem far from "minimally in 
both
> 
directions."=Your
> bio continues:"He was born in Brooklyn, NY in 1952 of second 
generation
> Italian and Irish immigrants. Ordained a Baptist Preacher, he 
embraces
> the Pentecostal movement and calls himself a 'Bapticostal 
Evangelist.'
> He also embraces Catholicism and Judean Traditions, for it was the 
faith
> of his parents and Jewish stepfather that inspired his 
spirituality."
> Help me out:  With similar roots to Italian, Irish and Jewish
> immigrants, I had sixteen+ years of Catholic School education: 
Italian
> nuns taught me the Catechism; Ionian Christian Brothers of Ireland
> required religion courses; and Jesuits required theology and 
philosophy
> (for Catholics). The Christ they taught was quite a rebel in his own
> time; wasn't contemptuous of government or taxation (pay unto
> Caesar); and I don't recall "Blessed are the War Profiteers" in 
the
> Sermon ion the Mount. His main focus wasn't on "eminent domain 
abuse";
> he preached wherever anyone would listen.  He chased the money 
changes
> from the temples; and  he didn't "Bless" selective political groups 
or
> countries; he blessed all, including prostitutes,the Samaritan 
(despised
> by the Jews), and those about to crucify him.
> ===Help me
> understand your certitude:  My teachers were highly 
credentialed.Among
> all the "Donate" buttons on your sites, I found the following:
> EDUCATION: C.U.N.Y Kingsborough Campus, Graduated 1976 AAS Degree 
Public
> Accounting:  Fine "KINGS HIGHWAY FAITH FELLOWSHIP / Varied Ministry
> Training Programs 1982 - 1992":  Various?  Scholarly Scripture 
study? 
> Written works?.
> "Licensed To Preach May 1991":  Where? By Whom? Their credentials?
> "Ordained 1995":   Where? By whom?  His or her credentials?  Why so
> vague after C.U.N.Y.'s accounting
> degree?= Help me
> out:  You're in Long Branch.  Why do you see fit to post AP crimes 
we
> can read in the paper to this group?  I can understand residents 
doing
> that to discuss remedies.  What's your
> motivation?
==Help me
> out regarding your support for our troops:Our own tentatively
> operating JSRM claims it's serving over a thousand homeless in this 
city
> which previously documented hundreds less. Does your ministry have
> similar numbers?  And do you document the wounded war veterans or 
their
> families you minister to? Must support mean talking the party line? 
> Walking to console the parents of their dead
> children. 
It's
> still a free country.  These are not charges.  And there's no need 
to
> reply.   But those questions are out there.  More so when you 
continue
> to post such as:In a message dated 9/2/2007 10:52:52 A.M. Eastern
> Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] write a joke whose punch line
> issomehow, as soon as I stopped thinkingI joined the Democratic
> Party.
>

and your point.
Was there anything there you are disputing or challenging?

Have you posted as much information about yourself, anywhere on the 
public forum?





 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[MarioAPNJ]

 
In a message dated 9/2/2007 3:17:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Mario, "When  all else fails, send in the Jesuits"! If there were no 
Al-Quaida, we'd  invent one!  As
the crooks and liars, exit daily, from the Bush  White House, amid scandal, 
ask yourself, why? 
Because they understood the power behind what Orwell exposed in  Animal Farm: 
 
 
Bush's public appearances were staged with loyal young Bushies shouting  USA! 
 USA!  to overpower any demonstrators.
The dumb sheep on the farm were programmed to shout out "Four legs good,  two 
legs bad" every time any of the other animals, less prone to herd mentality,  
would try to ask where the apples and milk went (to the pigs).  _Click  here: 
White House Manual Details How to Deal With Protesters -  washingtonpost.com_ 
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR20070821016
62_pf.html)  
 
And in 1984: 
War is peace. War keeps the war-profiteers happy and peaceful;  moreover, 
Orwell says, it keeps the top 2% of the elite in power.  It used  to be good 
for 
the economy--jobs etc for Orwell's 13% middle class.  The  rest, the Plebs, 
are either content with their lotteries, violent and  pornographic movies, or 
too busy struggling to make a living to take notice of  how they're being 
exploited.
 
Freedom is slavery.  Dogmatic  ideology is best: any "-ism" will do.  Free 
thinking enslaves one to  doubt.  Deregulate and give the public's airwaves to 
the corporate media to  pump, pump out that dogma 24/7.
 
Ignorance is strength.  Keep 'em  entertained (voting for American Idols and 
following assorted Bimbos and  Bimbettes), but invent devious ways to 
challenge and divert them at  the real voting booths; and convince 'em that all 
politics don't affect  their lives or change anything.
 




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[AsburyPark] Re: Rev. Kev,... Help Me Out

[2fine4u]

Mario,
"When all else fails, send in the Jesuits"!

At the age of 12, I was baptized in the "Spirit", or as Black
Catholics say, your "BIG" Communion, where you are slightly slapped on
the cheek, dying a symbolic death for Christ,  then you "kiss" the
Bishop's ring!  Bring back any memories?

Jesus, was the ultimate "outsider"!  A Jewish man, probably, a
Palestinian, since he was born in Bethlehem, tried in Jerusalem and
cruicfied at Calvary.  Accused by His own, due to ignorance, that He,
in fact, was the Messiah, but to fulfill the phrophacies, went to His
death, to save ALL of us.

Called "The Greatest Story Ever Told", by those of us who believe in
Jesus's teaching, we often lose sight of the fact that no matter,
which form of Christianity, we aspire to, be it Roman Catholicism, to
Southern Baptist, we often forget we are Christians, or followers of
Christ.  Jesus said, "Love thy enemies"!

Every morning, without fail, I light a candle, to curse the darkness
and do a series of prayers in Thanksgiving, for having awaken, once
more.  

I say all that, to say this:  It seems that Rev. Kev and those who
beat the drums of war, if you're so intent on supporting war, sign up
and justify your support!  You don't have to display a flag in your
window, with a Gold Star, in the center!

You don't have to anguish over your lost loved ones or tend to a
Veteran, with lost limbs and those suffering mental problems, called
PTSD's.  All of that "My country right or wrong", is why so many
countries HATE us!  If there were no Al-Quaida, we'd invent one!  As
the crooks and liars, exit daily, from the Bush White House, amid
scandal, ask yourself, why?  The reasons are obvious.  Americans are
tired of war; endless war, endless fear and unrelenting grimness!

My generation has already PAID its' dues with Viet-Nam, another stupid
war, fought over nothing, from people, who never attacked US!  Iraq
was NOT responsible for 9-11, the Saudis were!  That's all, I have to say!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  In a message dated 8/31/2007 9:05:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:GOD IS A CONSERVATIVE, MY PROOF, LIGHTNING
> HASN'T STRUCK YOU YET!
> Help me out: The above may be so, but using ALL CAPS is not convincing




 
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