[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[cwpvt]

So how are we going to split it up, I pay taxes, those taxes are 
going to be used for this, then they are going to need more taxes.  
The government doesn't have money, only tax payers have money.  Every 
nickle of any program is paid by mostly middle class people, not 
corporations (who will only raise their prices to cover it), not 
states or the federal government.  I do agree with the law suits 
though, even if no appreciable money is won, at least it brings past 
or current issues into view!

Since this isn't really a AP issue, I guess I should stop!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> The Irish, Italians, Jews and any other ethnic groups pay nothing! 
> You owe me nothing!  The Federal Government, that allowed any group 
of
> people to be held in bondage, including the whites who were
> indentured, is responsible and that's where the argument comes in. 
> Whites, that immigrated are NOT responsible.  Those fanilies that
> benefitted and are still benefiting from slavery, like Aetna, the
> Browns that started Brown University, every Southern State, 
including
> Texas and Oklahoma are responsible.  The NY Stock Exchange, Wall St.
> and the State of Massachusetts are responsible.  Not you, 
individually.
> 
> It has been documented in pending law suits, who the companies,
> plantations and state governments that were in collusion, especially
> New York State, Massachusetts and the states in the Southern region
> where slavery was practiced and the Northern states that shipped
> cotton, sugar, rice and tobacco, to Europe are responsible.  Even
> England, Spain, Portugal and France are responsible.  The European
> countries that participated in the system of slavery, are as well. 
> You owe me nothing!  You pay nothing!  This government owes the 
Irish
> its' very existence in helping win the Civil War, as far as I'm 
concerned.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "cwpvt"  wrote:
> >
> >   I agree that blacks have had a bad time of it, and I feel that 
> > things are changing, although too slowly, but (always a but!) I 
kind 
> > of wonder about this Restitution issue.  My family has farmed in 
up 
> > state NY near Lake George (John Brown was a neighbor for awhile) 
> > since the late 1740's , (escaping Scotland after most of the 
family 
> > was slaughtered by the English at Culloden) as far as I know, 
they 
> > never had slaves nor benefited from slave labor, as a matter of 
fact, 
> > quite a lot of them fought in the Civil War and a few died (No 
life 
> > insurance or death benefits back then).  My wife is/was an Irish 
> > citizen, her parents came over during the depression to escape 
> > starvation.  What is our share of this Restitution and how long 
do we 
> > pay it!  
> >
>





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[sharon_b283]

The Irish, Italians, Jews and any other ethnic groups pay nothing! 
You owe me nothing!  The Federal Government, that allowed any group of
people to be held in bondage, including the whites who were
indentured, is responsible and that's where the argument comes in. 
Whites, that immigrated are NOT responsible.  Those fanilies that
benefitted and are still benefiting from slavery, like Aetna, the
Browns that started Brown University, every Southern State, including
Texas and Oklahoma are responsible.  The NY Stock Exchange, Wall St.
and the State of Massachusetts are responsible.  Not you, individually.

It has been documented in pending law suits, who the companies,
plantations and state governments that were in collusion, especially
New York State, Massachusetts and the states in the Southern region
where slavery was practiced and the Northern states that shipped
cotton, sugar, rice and tobacco, to Europe are responsible.  Even
England, Spain, Portugal and France are responsible.  The European
countries that participated in the system of slavery, are as well. 
You owe me nothing!  You pay nothing!  This government owes the Irish
its' very existence in helping win the Civil War, as far as I'm concerned.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "cwpvt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   I agree that blacks have had a bad time of it, and I feel that 
> things are changing, although too slowly, but (always a but!) I kind 
> of wonder about this Restitution issue.  My family has farmed in up 
> state NY near Lake George (John Brown was a neighbor for awhile) 
> since the late 1740's , (escaping Scotland after most of the family 
> was slaughtered by the English at Culloden) as far as I know, they 
> never had slaves nor benefited from slave labor, as a matter of fact, 
> quite a lot of them fought in the Civil War and a few died (No life 
> insurance or death benefits back then).  My wife is/was an Irish 
> citizen, her parents came over during the depression to escape 
> starvation.  What is our share of this Restitution and how long do we 
> pay it!  
> 





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[sharon_b283]

I know this; you are a good person, even though we don't agree
politically, your heart is in the right place.  Your mother raised a
good son and should be proud of all your endeavors.  You've grown up
here and I know you have suffered, through no fault of your own, from
the injustices heaped on your people, as well.

Where I came from, there were no white or Black neighborhoods. 
Everybody was Catholic or related to someone who is!  There were no
Orthodox Jewish population, but from my encounters with Reformed Jews,
they felt pretty much like us, until they had to reveal their
race/religion.  Southerners were like Nazis in their hatred of Jewish
people.  Color had nothing to do with it.  Jews appear white and the
movie, Driving Miss Daisy, drove that fact, home!

The Jews owned most of the Department stores, like Kaufmans,
Rosenbergs and Meyer The Hatter.  Meyers is my maiden name!  Who knew?
 LOL, I don't know who the hell I am!  I know that all Christians were
Jews first, then followers of Christ, a Jew Himself, so I respect
them, as I respect myself.  Don't feel bad, I know so little of Black
History and there's so much I still have to learn.

In the South, New Jersey is thought of as a liberal, Northern State. 
I thought NJ was part of New England but I know it's a part of the
Mid-Atlantic States.  I still think of the original inhabitants, as
Yankees, no slur intended.  I found out through History, that it
played a pivotal part in returning escaped slaves and Lawnside, a
Black town started in Camden County, was established after
Reconstruction.  Mott House is there and was part of the Underground
Railroad.  The State has an African American book, dedicated to New
Jersey's rich history, from Colonialism to the present day.  It's
available in the Office of Tourism.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I appreciate the post Sharon, and your points are intriguing.  Many 
> areas I missed.
> 
> I'll give the matter more thought.
> 
> Always glad to learn a few things from you, friend.
> 
> 
>




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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[cwpvt]

  I agree that blacks have had a bad time of it, and I feel that 
things are changing, although too slowly, but (always a but!) I kind 
of wonder about this Restitution issue.  My family has farmed in up 
state NY near Lake George (John Brown was a neighbor for awhile) 
since the late 1740's , (escaping Scotland after most of the family 
was slaughtered by the English at Culloden) as far as I know, they 
never had slaves nor benefited from slave labor, as a matter of fact, 
quite a lot of them fought in the Civil War and a few died (No life 
insurance or death benefits back then).  My wife is/was an Irish 
citizen, her parents came over during the depression to escape 
starvation.  What is our share of this Restitution and how long do we 
pay it!  




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I appreciate the post Sharon, and your points are intriguing.  Many 
> areas I missed.
> 
> I'll give the matter more thought.
> 
> Always glad to learn a few things from you, friend.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283"  
> wrote:
> >
> > I read it, but it's a rehash of what I already knew.  All of what 
> you
> > wrote is true.  In order for me to "find" my history, I had to 
> study
> > it in college.  You didn't mention Reconstruction and its' short 
> life
> > after the end of the Civil War, Jim Crow until 1964, so those 
years
> > are what's relevant to me.  You don't mention the rise of Black
> > Nationalism, The Panthers, The Black Muslims and other 
> Nationalists,
> > who thought that Martins' message was too lame!  Rosa Parks gets 
> all
> > the credit for not getting up, but she wasn't the first.
> > 
> > Since Blacks set foot in the US in 1619, until today, Blacks 
> revolted.
> >  Many of the Blacks in Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba and the West 
> Indies
> > in general, may not be Americans, but I feel a kinship because of 
> our
> > shared experiences and Mother Africa.  We ALL are holding 
invoices,
> > overdue for non-payment from wherever we landed.  Restitution for 
> all
> > of the free labor rendered for 450 years.  We should move on?  We
> > would have if this country had treated us like your European 
> brothers.
> > 
> > Each ethnic group has their own story to tell about coming into 
> this
> > country.  Blacks are unique, having been kidnapped and forcibly
> > brought here.  How I feel isn't the issue, though is it?  Sorry, 
> I'm
> > off message folks!
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Sharon from your post I'm not sure you clicked on the link and 
> read it.
> > > 
> > > Did you?  I am most curious about your thoughts.
> > > 
> > > Here's the link again:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Some of the same statements you made are still relevant today.
> > > > The Irish and the Italians suffered greatly, but were always 
> free,
> > > > unlike Blacks, who continue to experience bias, as you saw in 
> Belmar.
> > > > After 38 years, not one thing has been done to enhance and 
> bring back
> > > > the West Side, not one thing. See Newark, Detroit and Watts, 
> none
> > > > have ever been reconstructed! Racism is evident in all four 
> cities.
> > > > Don't know how Chicago fared. New Orleans that never rioted, 
> have
> > > > suffered greatly, from assumed poverty, blaming the victims, 
> so she
> > > > will never have a majority Black population. Everything here 
is
> > > > focused on the East Side, with the West Side as an 
> afterthought. Good
> > > > luck on your speech. Wherever racism exists, the people in 
> general
> > > > suffer. If I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, it's the 
> fact that
> > > > nothing has changed, even though millions have flowed through 
> this
> > > > city, with none of it going where it was supposed to.
> > > >
> > > > There are no jobs open to Blacks who make up the majority 
here 
> and
> > > > very few businesses. So what's wrong? You tell me!
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> > > > justifiedright@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 
> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing
> > > ethnics?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sharon,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your wish is my command:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q
> > > > >
> > > > > Probably better to leave a comment there and not here, so 
as 
> to not
> > > > > tick-off Pete the Moderator.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unless of course you think it is Asbury related, which I 
> happen to
> > > > > think it is (but Pete's can be a little picky).
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[justifiedright]

I appreciate the post Sharon, and your points are intriguing.  Many 
areas I missed.

I'll give the matter more thought.

Always glad to learn a few things from you, friend.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I read it, but it's a rehash of what I already knew.  All of what 
you
> wrote is true.  In order for me to "find" my history, I had to 
study
> it in college.  You didn't mention Reconstruction and its' short 
life
> after the end of the Civil War, Jim Crow until 1964, so those years
> are what's relevant to me.  You don't mention the rise of Black
> Nationalism, The Panthers, The Black Muslims and other 
Nationalists,
> who thought that Martins' message was too lame!  Rosa Parks gets 
all
> the credit for not getting up, but she wasn't the first.
> 
> Since Blacks set foot in the US in 1619, until today, Blacks 
revolted.
>  Many of the Blacks in Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba and the West 
Indies
> in general, may not be Americans, but I feel a kinship because of 
our
> shared experiences and Mother Africa.  We ALL are holding invoices,
> overdue for non-payment from wherever we landed.  Restitution for 
all
> of the free labor rendered for 450 years.  We should move on?  We
> would have if this country had treated us like your European 
brothers.
> 
> Each ethnic group has their own story to tell about coming into 
this
> country.  Blacks are unique, having been kidnapped and forcibly
> brought here.  How I feel isn't the issue, though is it?  Sorry, 
I'm
> off message folks!
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Sharon from your post I'm not sure you clicked on the link and 
read it.
> > 
> > Did you?  I am most curious about your thoughts.
> > 
> > Here's the link again:
> > 
> > 
> > http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Some of the same statements you made are still relevant today.
> > > The Irish and the Italians suffered greatly, but were always 
free,
> > > unlike Blacks, who continue to experience bias, as you saw in 
Belmar.
> > > After 38 years, not one thing has been done to enhance and 
bring back
> > > the West Side, not one thing. See Newark, Detroit and Watts, 
none
> > > have ever been reconstructed! Racism is evident in all four 
cities.
> > > Don't know how Chicago fared. New Orleans that never rioted, 
have
> > > suffered greatly, from assumed poverty, blaming the victims, 
so she
> > > will never have a majority Black population. Everything here is
> > > focused on the East Side, with the West Side as an 
afterthought. Good
> > > luck on your speech. Wherever racism exists, the people in 
general
> > > suffer. If I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, it's the 
fact that
> > > nothing has changed, even though millions have flowed through 
this
> > > city, with none of it going where it was supposed to.
> > >
> > > There are no jobs open to Blacks who make up the majority here 
and
> > > very few businesses. So what's wrong? You tell me!
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> > > justifiedright@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 

> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing
> > ethnics?
> > > >
> > > > Sharon,
> > > >
> > > > Your wish is my command:
> > > >
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q
> > > >
> > > > Probably better to leave a comment there and not here, so as 
to not
> > > > tick-off Pete the Moderator.
> > > >
> > > > Unless of course you think it is Asbury related, which I 
happen to
> > > > think it is (but Pete's can be a little picky).
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[sharon_b283]

Know something?  I echo basically everything you said but I have been
a victim, but never "played" the victim!  I'm okay and it's people
like you that give me hope!:-)

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "evosap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for setting me straight re your old article I will send my email.
> 
> 
> There is a new book out "slavery by another name", haven;t read it but
> listened to author.  He documents the continued efforts to enslave
> black americans with phony charges and work camp prisons up to the30s
> or 40s. heartbreaking.  slavery still very much exists, most
> disturbingly in the sex trade of children.
> 
> while i hear that americans have fought against it, i still don't
> think the average american appreciates the horror that existed in this
> country for african people.  it is often hard for humans to admit our
> participation in something so egregious.  we are a human family, and
> my american family did commit crimes against african people.  no idea
> what the best thing to do about it but deny its impact is not it.  i
> have listened to a number of people claim no responsibility, no
> appreciation.
> 
> then...what to do about the victim mentality that drives individuals
> to see discrimination where it does not exist?
> 
> ultimately it seems to me that racism/sexism/homophobia/Speciesism and
> any other stance we take that sees another as "other" than us, me etc
> is a spiritual ignorance (and pretty scientific seeing as we are all
> in the same ecosystem).  
> 
> I am pretty guilty of making fun of behaviors that i find
> offensive...gross materialism, fear of the poor, classism, the
> assumption we should all be living the married procreating life,
> hummer drivers, chicks with plastic surgery blah blah blah..so i am
> failing to recognize the light of the universe in all as well.
> 
> i tell myself that my discrimination is better than that based on what
> is unchangeable, like skin color, orientation, gender...but am i
> kidding myself?
>





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[sharon_b283]

I read it, but it's a rehash of what I already knew.  All of what you
wrote is true.  In order for me to "find" my history, I had to study
it in college.  You didn't mention Reconstruction and its' short life
after the end of the Civil War, Jim Crow until 1964, so those years
are what's relevant to me.  You don't mention the rise of Black
Nationalism, The Panthers, The Black Muslims and other Nationalists,
who thought that Martins' message was too lame!  Rosa Parks gets all
the credit for not getting up, but she wasn't the first.

Since Blacks set foot in the US in 1619, until today, Blacks revolted.
 Many of the Blacks in Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba and the West Indies
in general, may not be Americans, but I feel a kinship because of our
shared experiences and Mother Africa.  We ALL are holding invoices,
overdue for non-payment from wherever we landed.  Restitution for all
of the free labor rendered for 450 years.  We should move on?  We
would have if this country had treated us like your European brothers.

Each ethnic group has their own story to tell about coming into this
country.  Blacks are unique, having been kidnapped and forcibly
brought here.  How I feel isn't the issue, though is it?  Sorry, I'm
off message folks!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> Sharon from your post I'm not sure you clicked on the link and read it.
> 
> Did you?  I am most curious about your thoughts.
> 
> Here's the link again:
> 
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Some of the same statements you made are still relevant today.
> > The Irish and the Italians suffered greatly, but were always free,
> > unlike Blacks, who continue to experience bias, as you saw in Belmar.
> > After 38 years, not one thing has been done to enhance and bring back
> > the West Side, not one thing. See Newark, Detroit and Watts, none
> > have ever been reconstructed! Racism is evident in all four cities.
> > Don't know how Chicago fared. New Orleans that never rioted, have
> > suffered greatly, from assumed poverty, blaming the victims, so she
> > will never have a majority Black population. Everything here is
> > focused on the East Side, with the West Side as an afterthought. Good
> > luck on your speech. Wherever racism exists, the people in general
> > suffer. If I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, it's the fact that
> > nothing has changed, even though millions have flowed through this
> > city, with none of it going where it was supposed to.
> >
> > There are no jobs open to Blacks who make up the majority here and
> > very few businesses. So what's wrong? You tell me!
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> > justifiedright@ wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing
> ethnics?
> > >
> > > Sharon,
> > >
> > > Your wish is my command:
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q
> > >
> > > Probably better to leave a comment there and not here, so as to not
> > > tick-off Pete the Moderator.
> > >
> > > Unless of course you think it is Asbury related, which I happen to
> > > think it is (but Pete's can be a little picky).
> > >
> >
>





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[justifiedright]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "evosap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for setting me straight re your old article I will send my 
email.

Great!  I'll send it right over.
 
> There is a new book out "slavery by another name", haven;t read it 
but
> listened to author.  He documents the continued efforts to enslave
> black americans with phony charges and work camp prisons up to 
the30s
> or 40s. heartbreaking.  slavery still very much exists, most
> disturbingly in the sex trade of children.
> 
> while i hear that americans have fought against it, i still don't
> think the average american appreciates the horror that existed in 
>this
> country for african people.  it is often hard for humans to admit 
>our
> participation in something so egregious.  we are a human family, and
> my american family did commit crimes against african people.  no 
>idea
> what the best thing to do about it but deny its impact is not it.  i
> have listened to a number of people claim no responsibility, no
> appreciation.

I guess this is where you and I disagree.  We've looked at the horror 
of slavery ad nauseum in this Country, while leaving no room for the 
triumph story.

It's time to celebrate the triumph story.


> then...what to do about the victim mentality that drives individuals
> to see discrimination where it does not exist?

Give them something better than victimology - the triumph story.  
Nothing feels better than winning. People will finally take their 
rightful place as American insiders when they celebrate their own 
American greatness.

> ultimately it seems to me that racism/sexism/homophobia/Speciesism 
>and
> any other stance we take that sees another as "other" than us, me 
>etc
> is a spiritual ignorance (and pretty scientific seeing as we are all
> in the same ecosystem).  

I agree. My conservative philosophy is "pro-human" to protect people 
from the trespasses of government and one another.  It is rooted in 
the Declaration of Independence (the self-evident truth that we are 
all created equal).  That's why the same conservative philosophy that 
drives me to protect the rights of really small humans called fetuses 
is the same philosophy that compels me to protect the rights of gays.


> I am pretty guilty of making fun of behaviors that i find
> offensive...gross materialism, fear of the poor, classism, the
> assumption we should all be living the married procreating life,
> hummer drivers, chicks with plastic surgery blah blah blah..so i am
> failing to recognize the light of the universe in all as well.

I'm certainly not holier than thou.  I'd bet at some point I will 
fall pray to some pop culture stereotype and insult someone without 
intending to.  I only hope that if that happens it's pointed out to 
me where I was wrong in an attempt to flip me to the right way, 
instead of folks trying to tear me down.  That's the way I handled it 
with Ken Pringle, and I'm sure it was the right thing to do.

> i tell myself that my discrimination is better than that based on 
what
> is unchangeable, like skin color, orientation, gender...but am i
> kidding myself?

No, I don't think the word "prejudice" applies to those things you 
speak about.  The law traditionally only addresed prejudice 
to "suspect classes" defined as those who could show that their group 
suffered an historic prejudice against them (Blacks, women, gays) but 
that always seemed to be in itself a prejudice.

I think yours is a political statement.

For the record - I seem to like everything you hate.  

Why do I like you so much? ;-)

Better stop here.  Pete's gonna ban me again.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[evosap]

Thanks for setting me straight re your old article I will send my email.


There is a new book out "slavery by another name", haven;t read it but
listened to author.  He documents the continued efforts to enslave
black americans with phony charges and work camp prisons up to the30s
or 40s. heartbreaking.  slavery still very much exists, most
disturbingly in the sex trade of children.

while i hear that americans have fought against it, i still don't
think the average american appreciates the horror that existed in this
country for african people.  it is often hard for humans to admit our
participation in something so egregious.  we are a human family, and
my american family did commit crimes against african people.  no idea
what the best thing to do about it but deny its impact is not it.  i
have listened to a number of people claim no responsibility, no
appreciation.

then...what to do about the victim mentality that drives individuals
to see discrimination where it does not exist?

ultimately it seems to me that racism/sexism/homophobia/Speciesism and
any other stance we take that sees another as "other" than us, me etc
is a spiritual ignorance (and pretty scientific seeing as we are all
in the same ecosystem).  

I am pretty guilty of making fun of behaviors that i find
offensive...gross materialism, fear of the poor, classism, the
assumption we should all be living the married procreating life,
hummer drivers, chicks with plastic surgery blah blah blah..so i am
failing to recognize the light of the universe in all as well.

i tell myself that my discrimination is better than that based on what
is unchangeable, like skin color, orientation, gender...but am i
kidding myself?




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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[justifiedright]

Sharon from your post I'm not sure you clicked on the link and read it.

Did you?  I am most curious about your thoughts.

Here's the link again:


http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Some of the same statements you made are still relevant today.
> The Irish and the Italians suffered greatly, but were always free,
> unlike Blacks, who continue to experience bias, as you saw in Belmar.
> After 38 years, not one thing has been done to enhance and bring back
> the West Side, not one thing. See Newark, Detroit and Watts, none
> have ever been reconstructed! Racism is evident in all four cities.
> Don't know how Chicago fared. New Orleans that never rioted, have
> suffered greatly, from assumed poverty, blaming the victims, so she
> will never have a majority Black population. Everything here is
> focused on the East Side, with the West Side as an afterthought. Good
> luck on your speech. Wherever racism exists, the people in general
> suffer. If I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, it's the fact that
> nothing has changed, even though millions have flowed through this
> city, with none of it going where it was supposed to.
>
> There are no jobs open to Blacks who make up the majority here and
> very few businesses. So what's wrong? You tell me!
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> justifiedright@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing
ethnics?
> >
> > Sharon,
> >
> > Your wish is my command:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q
> >
> > Probably better to leave a comment there and not here, so as to not
> > tick-off Pete the Moderator.
> >
> > Unless of course you think it is Asbury related, which I happen to
> > think it is (but Pete's can be a little picky).
> >
>

[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[sharon_b283]

Some of the same statements you made are still relevant today.
The Irish and the Italians suffered greatly, but were always free,
unlike Blacks, who continue to experience bias, as you saw in Belmar.
 After 38 years, not one thing has been done to enhance and bring back
the West Side, not one thing.  See Newark, Detroit and Watts, none
have ever been reconstructed!  Racism is evident in all four cities. 
Don't know how Chicago fared.  New Orleans that never rioted, have
suffered greatly, from assumed poverty, blaming the victims, so she
will never have a majority Black population.  Everything here is
focused on the East Side, with the West Side as an afterthought.  Good
luck on your speech.  Wherever racism exists, the people in general
suffer.  If I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, it's the fact that
nothing has changed, even though millions have flowed through this
city, with none of it going where it was supposed to.

There are no jobs open to Blacks who make up the majority here and
very few businesses.  So what's wrong?  You tell me!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283"  
> wrote:
> >
> > So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing ethnics?
> 
> Sharon,
> 
> Your wish is my command:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q
> 
> Probably better to leave a comment there and not here, so as to not 
> tick-off Pete the Moderator.
> 
> Unless of course you think it is Asbury related, which I happen to 
> think it is (but Pete's can be a little picky).
>





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[justifiedright]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing ethnics?

Sharon,

Your wish is my command:

http://tinyurl.com/6yhg8q

Probably better to leave a comment there and not here, so as to not 
tick-off Pete the Moderator.

Unless of course you think it is Asbury related, which I happen to 
think it is (but Pete's can be a little picky).




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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[justifiedright]

The extended version of my speech last night can be found here:

Guidos

  

[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[sharon_b283]

So, do Blacks matter or even count, since we're discussing ethnics?

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "evosap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hey...didn't you write that there was no big deal in the "jew couple"
> incident over at whatever the lake house used to be?  ..different
> because it was a server?  could be.  or because you are italian?
> 





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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[Jersey Shore John]

"More specifically, its the prejudices imprinted on our minds from  
stereotypes that hurts us in Court."



...like Osama/Obama?

On Jul 24, 2008, at 10:43 AM, justifiedright wrote:


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "evosap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> hey...didn't you write that there was no big deal in the "jew
>couple"
> incident over at whatever the lake house used to be? ..different
> because it was a server? could be. or because you are italian?

To the contrary, dear friend. I even received a nice call from a
Rabbi thanking me for taking the time to understand the issue from a
Jew's perspective.

> i recently asked dan for a copy of that piece, which he didn't
>have.
> i remember really enjoying your take on it.

Send me your email, and I'll favor you with a copy.

> Do you speak against the love of Sopranos?

Some of my writings against the Sopranos went "viral" and were
emailed and repreinted nationwide. It's a thrill when you wake up
one morning and your emial is full of messages from around the
country.

> I was practically raised
> by my neighborhood italian families who fed me, loved me and never
> killed anyone. i have been disgusted by the show from day one...

Glad to have you on board.

> it is funny how we still call each other names, but even funnier
>that
> it upsets us. and unfortunately, due i think to constant coercion
>by
> our flat homogeneous culture that does everything it can to quash
> individuality, we too often fit stereotypes. and stereotypes do
>get
> on your nerves.

Funny that it upsets us? Gets on our nerves?

Someone yesterday told me I was making too big a deal over that
matter, citing "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will
never hurt me."

I responded, "Words will never hurt you? Come sit in on a few jury
trials with me, when fortunes and freedoms are at stake. Tell me
then that words will never hurt you. THAT'S ALL THAT HURTS YOU."

More specifically, its the prejudices imprinted on our minds from
stereotypes that hurts us in Court.

Words mean things. They matter alot.

[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[justifiedright]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "evosap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> hey...didn't you write that there was no big deal in the "jew 
>couple"
> incident over at whatever the lake house used to be?  ..different
> because it was a server?  could be.  or because you are italian?

To the contrary, dear friend.  I even received a nice call from a 
Rabbi thanking me for taking the time to understand the issue from a 
Jew's perspective.
 
> i recently asked dan for a copy of that piece, which he didn't 
>have. 
> i remember really enjoying your take on it.

Send me your email, and I'll favor you with a copy.
 
> Do you speak against the love of Sopranos?

Some of my writings against the Sopranos went "viral" and were 
emailed and repreinted nationwide.   It's a thrill when you wake up 
one morning and your emial is full of messages from around the 
country.

>  I was practically raised
> by my neighborhood italian families who fed me, loved me and never
> killed anyone.  i have been disgusted by the show from day one...

Glad to have you on board.

> it is funny how we still call each other names, but even funnier 
>that
> it upsets us.  and unfortunately, due i think to constant coercion 
>by
> our flat homogeneous culture that does everything it can to quash
> individuality, we too often fit stereotypes.  and stereotypes do 
>get
> on your nerves.

Funny that it upsets us?  Gets on our nerves?

Someone yesterday told me I was making too big a deal over that 
matter, citing "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will 
never hurt me."

I responded, "Words will never hurt you?  Come sit in on a few jury 
trials with me, when fortunes and freedoms are at stake.  Tell me 
then that words will never hurt you.  THAT'S ALL THAT HURTS YOU."

More specifically, its the prejudices imprinted on our minds from 
stereotypes that hurts us in Court.  

Words mean things.  They matter alot.

>  i've got this thing against white women lately.  oh
> wait, i am a white woman.

? 

> going to a poetry reading, but would love to hear your talk...does
> belmar tape their meetings?

One of the reporters taped the speech.  I'll probably post a written 
verson of the comments.

Let's get together sometime.  I have this idea for a night of 
nothing but happy poetry.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Speech Tonight

[evosap]

hey...didn't you write that there was no big deal in the "jew couple"
incident over at whatever the lake house used to be?  ..different
because it was a server?  could be.  or because you are italian?

i recently asked dan for a copy of that piece, which he didn't have. 
i remember really enjoying your take on it.

Do you speak against the love of Sopranos?  I was practically raised
by my neighborhood italian families who fed me, loved me and never
killed anyone.  i have been disgusted by the show from day one...

it is funny how we still call each other names, but even funnier that
it upsets us.  and unfortunately, due i think to constant coercion by
our flat homogeneous culture that does everything it can to quash
individuality, we too often fit stereotypes.  and stereotypes do get
on your nerves.  i've got this thing against white women lately.  oh
wait, i am a white woman.

going to a poetry reading, but would love to hear your talk...does
belmar tape their meetings?








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