[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Red LED's give my power supply a musically warm, rounded tone, but for ultimate analytic accuracy (best paired with a 24/96 DAC) the blue LED is the proven leader. Some may be swayed by the green LED's manufacturer's claims to have the best PRAT, but don't believe the hype. -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Does Coaxial out benefit from upgraded PS?
Yeah, I figured the same thing. But the Power One PS was cheap enough for me to find out. I was blown away by the difference! MUCHO Wrote: > I mean I can see how the Burr Brown DAC out could be affected but its > hard to see how the coaxial digital out could be. BTW YGPM. -- crooner crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Does Coaxial out benefit from upgraded PS?
http://tinyurl.com/kzevv -- bahnsah bahnsah's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4268 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Active Speakers
Think I'll hold off until I can get the Swans M200's. -- sleepysurf squeezebox2 (with elpac linear psu) to benchmark dac1, direct to sunfire cinema grand 200 ~five (vertically bi-amped) driving ml aerius i's, blue jeans cables. 'click to see my system' (http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=732) sleepysurf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
I recently bought a couple of books: "Data Conversion Handbook" written by the folks at ADI, and "The Circuit Designer's Companion" by Tim Williams. Both have extensive sections on proper digital, analog, and mixed circuit design techniques. It seems to me, after reading these books, and browsing through "The Art of Electronics", the last thing that should be worried about is LED noise. Hell, poorly matched resistors alone, not to mention regulators and voltage references, can account for 1/2 LSB error in 16-bit converters. It makes me think the difference between DACs and amplifiers are probably mostly due to how well the circuit is designed and laid out, not the specific technology (i.e. 16-bit vs. 24-bit, upsampling vs. NOS, etc.). Now I understand why DIYers often scoff at the typical audiophile tweaks, like buying $1000 cables or vibrapods. I've decided never to part with another dime of my own money toward these things, unless I build it myself, or at least, know how it was built. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Active Speakers
Tell me more - do you mean this Tivoli? http://www.tivoliaudio.com/product.php?productid=196&cat=267&page=1 -- Andyoz Andyoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Active Speakers
you'd get a better sound using a Tivoli with the SB -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Active Speakers
Good, although to be honest $600 for a new pair is actually pretty good. I make that to be approx £330. I think the best they sold new for in the UK was £300. Did you consider any other actives? I am setting up a SB system for the kitchen and have actually looked at the iPod HiFi. It's getting some good write-ups but I would like something a bit more unusual (it's also such a "hot" item I have no chance of getting any decent discount on one!) -- Andyoz Andyoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Active Speakers
sleepysurf Wrote: > ... Will be interesting to see if they are decent, or try to charge me > restocking for an order that never shipped! Well, hats off to Musiciansbuy.com. They gladly cancelled the order and credited my card back fully. I'd certainly consider doing business with them in the future. -- sleepysurf squeezebox2 (with elpac linear psu) to benchmark dac1, direct to sunfire cinema grand 200 ~five (vertically bi-amped) driving ml aerius i's, blue jeans cables. 'click to see my system' (http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=732) sleepysurf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Active speakers for a large room to replace Quads
Many thanks for the time and effort people are all putting into the reponses - which I have read with great interest even whilst on a weekend break in Geneva! Food for thought - it could go either way - and please, if anyone has any other gems, dont hide them away! Regards Jonathon -- Jonathon Jonathon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23172 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Internet Radio is Louder Than Music Library
It's very frustrating for ALL of us. Maybe a simple solution would be to have a software option allowing us to "dial in" some attenuation (as we can already do for the Pre Amp Volume Control), for SELECT Internet Radio streams. Alternatively, maybe there is some way to implement ReplayGain for internet radio streams. -- sleepysurf squeezebox2 (with elpac linear psu) to benchmark dac1, direct to sunfire cinema grand 200 ~five (vertically bi-amped) driving ml aerius i's, blue jeans cables. 'click to see my system' (http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=732) sleepysurf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23284 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Internet Radio is Louder Than Music Library
It's called compression! - nothing to worry about. I live in hope that one day we might get back to treating 0dB as a peak not an average... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23284 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Mike Anderson Wrote: > OK, but is it bulletproof? I need mine to be bulletproof. Does your significant other hate your choice of music -that- much? -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
opaqueice Wrote: > Well, except that the difference wasn't exactly less noise--the levels > were roughly the same--it was just that the noise spectrum from the > cheap cables was a bit more interesting. > > Also the level was so low that even with my amp (120 w/channel) maxed, > from the listening position the noise wasn't as loud as many other > noises around my apartment, such as the refrigerator fan from another > room. With music playing I can't imagine it would make any difference > either way. Sorry - I meant different noise...same thoughts though. Like you, I find the ambient noise much more of a problem than any residual system noise. Short of taking a shotgun to the cows next door (and the drivers on the road outside) I'm a bit stuck on that one! I think my conclusion on this is that cables do affect the noise spectrum - and so I could see how they might affect the music... I'd like to gather more views on this. Rock (or whatever) on everyone. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Internet Radio is Louder Than Music Library
There is nothing wrong with yours. My audio files are all in WAV. -- empty99 empty99's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23284 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Phil Leigh Wrote: > Yeah yeah ! - I think we are getting somewhere... better interconnects = > less noise...now that would explain differences between cables... > Well, except that the difference wasn't exactly less noise--the levels were roughly the same--it was just that the noise spectrum from the cheap cables was a bit more interesting. Also the level was so low that even with my amp (120 w/channel) maxed, from the listening position the noise wasn't as loud as many other noises around my apartment, such as the refrigerator fan from another room. With music playing I can't imagine it would make any difference either way. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Yeah yeah ! - I think we are getting somewhere... better interconnects = less noise...now that would explain differences between cables... I'd like to hear other folks experiences with this - hours of endless fun! Opaqueice - kudos to you for trying it...maybe some useful information has been obtained here? -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Phil Leigh Wrote: > > Going back to real-world for a moment, try this: > > 1) turn your amp to FULL volume and play back a long WAV file of > "silence" through the SB while listening to the tweeter/HF unit up > close > 2) try pausing/unpausing > 3) what do you hear? > 4) assuming you do hear a difference, it will be noise/noise products > generated in the SB analogue stages+interconnects - or in your external > dac (if any). > > 5) Remember your amp is on full > 6) return to your normal listening position and volume and repeat > 6) now ask yourself "am I ever going to hear this "noise" in normal > circumstances?" > > I'd be interested in the outcome of this. OK, insatiable curiosity overcame fear - so I tried it :-). First, there is no audible difference between paused and un-paused SB playback of a silent .wav file, either via the SB analogue outs or through my external DAC (Lite DAC AH). There was a clearly audible difference between the DAC and the SB analogue outs. The level was about the same, but the static from the DAC sounded white, while the analogue outs had some mid-high frequency hum in there. However, that was with basic monster interconnects attached to the SB analogue, and nicer Blue Jeans cables on the DAC. So naturally I tried swapping the interconnects. That interchanged the noise as far as I could tell, implying that it had nothing to do with the SB or the DAC. It must have been the cheaper cables picking a little EM noise from somewhere. However the level for both was so low as to be completely negligible when listening to anything (other than silence). Note that the DAC-AH has an LED. This also implies, IMHO, that expensive interconnects or cables (and it's precisely RCA interconnects which are the type of audio cable most sensitive to noise) are a waste of money. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
opaqueice Wrote: > We are miscommunicating maximally :-). I was trying to be sarcastic, > which doesn't work well on internet forums. > > I just wanted to know how an LED can possibly induce noise. Nature of the beast - Google it. We are all going to a great deal of trouble to replace a switching supply with a linear one because the former introduces high frequency noise. LED's can do the same - not saying you will hear it but less is more! -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Well, of course most CD's do have some noise that is audible in quiet passages... Unless the DAC is muting the analogue signal when presented with digital zero (unlikely) this is a better test than listening to a CD with unquantifiable noise burnt onto it. Also, noise on the CD is hardly going to go away (with or without fancy PSU's LED's etc) ;o) -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Internet Radio is Louder Than Music Library
Since I've had my wirelss SB3, I noticed that Raioio inrernet radio has more gain than my music library. My library is in a FLAC format. I also ran all of my files through Foobar 2000. I am curious to know why is it I have to turn up the volume when I listen to my music library? And is there something that I might be able to do to increase the the gain on my music library so as to not have so much of a differential in volume adjustment when I switch back and forth between internet radio and my music library. Thnaks, Steve -- babi8987 babi8987's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4439 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23284 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Phil Leigh Wrote: > > and, surely you don't have speakers that can't handle the full power > bandwidth of your amp do you? :0) I was more worried about my ears!! -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
>From past experience playing all zero's generally results in unnoticable noise from the source, but some noise from the amp, which can be heard from the lisenting position. However, this doesn't seem to account for the noticable level of noise that can be heard during quiet parts of music. For some reason (for me anyway) the source makes a noticable difference here, as well as the amp. Makes some sense - noise induces noise, but silence doesn't. So a better test may be to take different low level noise wav's and listen to them -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
ummm - I may have invented a new form of Russian roulette... "Are you feeling lucky?" Is there a band called Death By White Noise - and if not, why not? -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
then you die. Corroner will then determine it was Death by White Noise. Everyone cries ;) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Phil Leigh Wrote: > > 1) turn your amp to FULL volume and play back a long WAV file of > "silence" through the SB while listening to the tweeter/HF unit up > close > I'm scared... :-) What if the dreaded "white noise of death" SB bug occurs right then? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
ezkcdude Wrote: > Google "LED noise", and you'll see how it's theoretically possible. Of > course, that doesn't necessarily mean the effects are audible. However, > I believe anyone who tells you that LED noise is *significant* is more > concerned with marketing than engineering. It seems to me there are > dozens of other more significant things to worry about rather than LED > noise. Assuming almost every other part of the design is perfect, then > go chase after LED noise. Until then, fuggetaboutitaready. I glanced at a few articles about this. They're about noise due primarily to thermal fluctuations in the diode, which apparently in many cases is lower than the shot noise (shot noise is noise due to the fact that the electric current is made up of a finite number of electrons). This is an incredibly tiny effect, and not only that will occur in EVERY circuit component, not just LEDs - every resister, capacitor, wire, etc. It's measurable with very sensitive equipment when the currents involved are extremely small. Note I'm talking about steady state LED noise - if the thing is flickering on and off, that might induce some more significant noise. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Thank goodness for clearing that up - I thought we were embarking for Planet Mad! Seriously, if you are going to worry about the LED, you'd really want to disconnect the VFD which is after most of the regulation//filtering...and then you've got no UI - so you use a computer or a phone or a wi-fi gizmo...and that's putting lots of RF into the air. Try putting an AM radio near any of those...all that noise will get picked up by your mains cables and interconnects (screening obviously REDUCES the impact). While we are at it, no point in using fancy mains cables etc and then taking the supply through a nasty little piece of fuse wire (chortle). Also, surely that DC connecter should be rhodium plated?. It may have escaped some peoples attention that many of the impacts and behaviours of cables are only relavent to AC transmission - steady-state DC is a different ballgame. RF doesn't intermodulate DC to produce a complex Fourier result (like it does AC) so is easily filtered out. Going back to real-world for a moment, try this: 1) turn your amp to FULL volume and play back a long WAV file of "silence" through the SB while listening to the tweeter/HF unit up close 2) try pausing/unpausing 3) what do you hear? 4) assuming you do hear a difference, it will be noise/noise products generated in the SB analogue stages+interconnects - or in your external dc (if any). 5) Remember your amp is on full 6) return to your normal listening position and volume and repeat 6) now ask yourself "am I ever going to hear this "nise" in normal circumstances?" I'd be interested in the outcome of this. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
opaqueice Wrote: > > > I just wanted to know how an LED can possibly induce noise. Google "LED noise", and you'll see how it's theoretically possible. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean the effects are audible. However, I believe anyone who tells you that LED noise is significant is more concerned with marketing than engineering. It seems to me there are dozens of other more significant things to worry about rather than LED noise. Assuming almost every other part of the design is perfect, then go chase after LED noise. Until then, fuggetaboutitaready. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SqueezePower final design Power supply
Phil Leigh Wrote: > ? - you think you'll be able to hear the noise from an LED that is > behind a whole bunch of further regulation? > > Gosh - that VFD must be worrying then :o) We are miscommunicating maximally :-). I was trying to be sarcastic, which doesn't work well on internet forums. I just wanted to know how an LED can possibly induce noise. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
