Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[dean blackketter]

On Sep 5, 2006, at 8:13 PM, highdudgeon wrote:

Too bad the Transporter doens't have a tape or f/x loop -- that would
solve the issue.


Sean hopes to add this capability soon:




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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

I actually pretty much agree, but I saddled myself with the aps, and now
I have to either make them work or sell them.

My room clearly has issues, so fixing those is a win either way.
I've also been toying with the idea of keeping the behringer and
squeezebox, and driving the speakers with a tact 2150. Then the whole
thing is just:

squeezebox->deq->int amp->speakers

I might have jitter issues then, but the system would be simple. I am a
little leery about the equibit thing, since then any major format change
would make the thing completely useless, afaik.

the cheapo class av123 thing I'm going to try also has a built in dac.
I figure if it's great, then I'll use it in the living room, otherwise
I put it in the bedroom, and live with the mccormack/classe until I get
the tact or whatever. Hypex is coming out with their own smps soon, so I
could conceivably even do diy for the amp (I hate the idea of building
an amp nearly as heavy and heat producing as the mccormack).

highdudgeon;133918 Wrote: 
> Well, the DIY is kind of cool -- and you learn a lot, if you have the
> patience.  When I moved from the Behringer to the Rane, I needed some
> kind of measuring system, right?  So I purchased an excellent audio
> measurement software suite for the Mac, a measurement mic, cables,
> etc., and went about testing my room and tweaking the EQ accordingly. 
> Little things *mattered* -- mic positioning, windowing results (long
> story), etc.  It was worth it.  With help from others, I learned quite
> a lot about room issues and speaker behavior.
> 
> When it comes to electronics, though, I like to keep it simple.  Or try
> to, anyway.  Look at my current system -- it's 1/4 of the stuff I had,
> or less. (Harbeth M40s, two ACI Force subs, Carver amp, Bel Canto Pre2,
> Rane, Sony CD/DVD/SACD, you name it).  I want to be down to speakers
> that need minimal to no correction in an average room (hence the
> Monitor 30s), an amplifier, and a source.  You miss a lot of things
> this way...especially deep bass, and that's something I'm going to have
> to deal with at some point...but simple is nice.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

Well, the DIY is kind of cool -- and you learn a lot, if you have the
patience.  When I moved from the Behringer to the Rane, I needed some
kind of measuring system, right?  So I purchased an excellent audio
measurement software suite for the Mac, a measurement mic, cables,
etc., and went about testing my room and tweaking the EQ accordingly. 
Little things *mattered* -- mic positioning, windowing results (long
story), etc.  It was worth it.  With help from others, I learned quite
a lot about room issues and speaker behavior.

When it comes to electronics, though, I like to keep it simple.  Or try
to, anyway.  Look at my current system -- it's 1/4 of the stuff I had,
or less. (Harbeth M40s, two ACI Force subs, Carver amp, Bel Canto Pre2,
Rane, Sony CD/DVD/SACD, you name it).  I want to be down to speakers
that need minimal to no correction in an average room (hence the
Monitor 30s), an amplifier, and a source.  You miss a lot of things
this way...especially deep bass, and that's something I'm going to have
to deal with at some point...but simple is nice.


-- 
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Simple and satisfying.

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

I agree, it wouldn't be any/much cheaper than the transporter. 

The rosetta 200 is ~1800, the blue is ~1400 w/2 channels of d/a, and
the io card for the wordclock out is ~300, so it's around the same
price.

I need to do a fair amount more research before I can feel confident
about deciding on any of this, and conversations in places like this
are certainly helpful :) (trolls aside).

I'm _definitely_ going to want to hide at least some of my equipment in
a closed cabinet (I already am hiding everything but the sb3 and the
speakers), since all of the equipment I'm talking about is pretty
ugly.

For whatever reason, I like the sort of diy feeling of the setup I'm
talking about. Whether I really do that or not, we'll see.

highdudgeon;133910 Wrote: 
> I think the system you site would work just fine...it is, of course,
> getting into Transporter territory.
> 
> Too bad the Transporter doens't have a tape or f/x loop -- that would
> solve the issue.
> 
> You solution is totally doable, though, and simpler.  The 2496, once
> you figure out the menus, is a snap to use and about as good as
> anything else...


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter: to hell with cynicism, I'm getting one. Now, how to use it, Sean?

[dean blackketter]

On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:32 PM, inguz wrote:

Another question for the Slim folks:  what's the output impedance from
the transporter (balanced, and unbalanced)?


From :

Unbalanced: 100 ohm (at -0dB)
Balanced: 1k ohm


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

totoro;133904 Wrote: 
> Which ones? The ones about the English language?

You're the one that made the assumptions, so you figure it out.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

I think the system you site would work just fine...it is, of course,
getting into Transporter territory.

Too bad the Transporter doens't have a tape or f/x loop -- that would
solve the issue.

You solution is totally doable, though, and simpler.  The 2496, once
you figure out the menus, is a snap to use and about as good as
anything else...


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

This is clearly all a ways off for me :).

I was thinking along the lines of 

sb3->behringer->(lavry blue w/clock card or apogee rosetta 200 or
whatever)->amplification

This would run me about the same amount of money as getting a
transporter, since I already have the deq and the sb3.

Not sure I agree that your solution is simpler :).

We'll have to compare notes as we evolve our systems, I guess. I think
either way would produce pretty good sound.

If I had more money, I might consider deqx or tact, but that is a lot
of money. The beauty of the behringer is that it's cheap, and from all
reports does an at least adequate job.

In the meantime, I need to get my room straightened out and get my eq
curves right :)

highdudgeon;133907 Wrote: 
> Actually, this is what I would recommend: 
> 
> 1)  get a high quality analog EQ.  Basically, you go from the analog
> outputs of the Transporter/SB3 to the EQ and then to the amps. 
> Klark-Teknik and Audient make fantastic EQs.
> 
> 2) For perhaps slightly less fidelity...and I say perhaps...use
> something like the Rane 60L, which I had for a while and with which I
> was happy.  It has a "perfect Q" mode for the sliders, which makes
> adjustments easy.  Analog in, ADC/Processor/DAC and analog to the amps.
> It's really quite good.
> 
> 3) For quite a more money, something like the DEQX preamp system.  It
> is ridiculously versatile.  I've heard it and the TacT
> systems...although they were in different homes, the speakers were
> similar and I gave DEQX the edge.  So do quite a few people.  Extremely
> versatile.
> 
> Yes, I think the Transporter has only a word clock input.   
> 
> Personally, I'd keep it simple: try an analog EQ.  I know a highly
> respected reviewer who uses an inexpensive graphic eq of the analog
> sort...and nobody can tell when it's in or out of the system.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

Actually, this is what I would recommend: 

1)  get a high quality analog EQ.  Basically, you go from the analog
outputs of the Transporter/SB3 to the EQ and then to the amps. 
Klark-Teknik and Audient make fantastic EQs.

2) For perhaps slightly less fidelity...and I say perhaps...use
something like the Rane 60L, which I had for a while and with which I
was happy.  It has a "perfect Q" mode for the sliders, which makes
adjustments easy.  Analog in, ADC/Processor/DAC and analog to the amps.
It's really quite good.

3) For quite a more money, something like the DEQX preamp system.  It
is ridiculously versatile.  I've heard it and the TacT
systems...although they were in different homes, the speakers were
similar and I gave DEQX the edge.  So do quite a few people.  Extremely
versatile.

Yes, I think the Transporter has only a word clock input.   

Personally, I'd keep it simple: try an analog EQ.  I know a highly
respected reviewer who uses an inexpensive graphic eq of the analog
sort...and nobody can tell when it's in or out of the system.

totoro;133903 Wrote: 
> Let's suppose that you have decided to use a deq (the behringer or
> something fancier). 
> 
> If you use the transporter, you'll have to do digital out to the deq,
> and then digital in back to the transporter. My understanding is that
> the transporter has an input for a wordclock, but no output. Do you
> know if this is correct?
> 
> Because if it is, it would seem to me that having an 
> sb3->deq->dac
> 
> where the dac has a wordclock output would perhaps work better (the
> behringer, which is the cheapest option, has a wordclock input), or at
> least as well. Unless I'm wrong about the wordclock on the transporter,
> you'd have to have a separate wordclock unit driving both clocks to get
> the same performance.
> 
> I'd be quite willing to accept that I have this wrong, if someone could
> explain.


-- 
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Simple and satisfying.

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

Let's suppose that you have decided to use a deq (the behringer or
something fancier). 

If you use the transporter, you'll have to do digital out to the deq,
and then digital in back to the transporter. My understanding is that
the transporter has an input for a wordclock, but no output. Do you
know if this is correct?

Because if it is, it would seem to me that having an 
sb3->deq->dac

where the dac has a wordclock output would perhaps work better (the
behringer, which is the cheapest option, has a wordclock input), or at
least as well. Unless I'm wrong about the wordclock on the transporter,
you'd have to have a separate wordclock unit driving both clocks to get
the same performance.

I'd be quite willing to accept that I have this wrong, if someone could
explain.


highdudgeon;133899 Wrote: 
> Where were we before a certain member's interruption?  Right: the
> Stereophile review.
> 
> I think Totoro is on the right track.  To make my point again...which I
> am sure is fogotten by now...I'm of the school that differences in DACs
> are, in fact, rather small.  Modern electronics are really, really good
> -- mid-priced Sony or Pioneer CD players could easily be confused with
> far higher-end material.
> 
> Now, suppose you have bit-perfect reception.  With the SB/Transporter,
> that's the case.  Now, suppose you pipe that into much higher grade DAC
> (the Transporter) without having to use cables and what not.  Assume
> accurate clocking that essentially does away with jitter.  You now have
> one heck of a product.
> 
> The only thing left to address, really, are the speakers and room. 
> Picking speakers for specific rooms is tricky, in my experience, and
> treating rooms is either easy or next to impossible, depending on your
> living situation.Assuming reasonable speakers, the one thing you
> CAN do is to introduce equalization.  A 2-5bd tweak in a critical
> mid-range area and proper bass management will have far more impact
> than fancy cables and...quite possibly...make more of a difference than
> using an SB3 alone and an SB3 with DAC.  Anyway, that's my take on it.
> 
> I had the Behringer for a while, sold it, and got a graphic EQ.  Only
> reason: I found the menus a bit fussy.  Having said that, I  know a
> senior acoustic engineer who uses a Behringer 2496 in his $20k+ system.


-- 
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

totoro;133897 Wrote: 
> I never called you any names. You posted your comments on a public
> forum, so you should expect responses from others.
> 
> As I pointed out earlier, your statement about dsl/cable, internet
> radio, and playlists was either indicative of a misunderstanding of how
> networks work, or incoherent.
> 
> You have not addressed this point at all. Given your aggressive and
> petulant behavior towards others in this thread, I must say that your
> sudden attack of sensitivity takes me aback.
> 
> The only assumptions I made were about the nature of the English
> language. You either were wrong, or can't express yourself in an
> understandable manner. In either case, the issue is with you, and not
> with anyone else.
> 
> If you aggressively attack someone else in a manner that can only  be
> construed as either incorrect or incoherent, you can expect others to
> call you on it.
> 
> Thank you so much for ruining this thread.
> Finally, I will not admit myself to be wrong simply because I don't
> think that I am.


Once again, your assumptions were wrong.

If you can't admit it, that's your problem.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

Where were we before a certain member's interruption?  Right: the
Stereophile review.

I think Totoro is on the right track.  To make my point again...which I
am sure is fogotten by now...I'm of the school that differences in DACs
are, in fact, rather small.  Modern electronics are really, really good
-- mid-priced Sony or Pioneer CD players could easily be confused with
far higher-end material.

Now, suppose you have bit-perfect reception.  With the SB/Transporter,
that's the case.  Now, suppose you pipe that into much higher grade DAC
(the Transporter) without having to use cables and what not.  Assume
accurate clocking that essentially does away with jitter.  You now have
one heck of a product.

The only thing left to address, really, are the speakers and room. 
Picking speakers for specific rooms is tricky, in my experience, and
treating rooms is either easy or next to impossible, depending on your
living situation.Assuming reasonable speakers, the one thing you
CAN do is to introduce equalization.  A 2-5bd tweak in a critical
mid-range area and proper bass management will have far more impact
than fancy cables and...quite possibly...make more of a difference than
using an SB3 alone and an SB3 with DAC.  Anyway, that's my take on it.

I had the Behringer for a while, sold it, and got a graphic EQ.  Only
reason: I found the menus a bit fussy.  Having said that, I  know a
senior acoustic engineer who uses a Behringer 2496 in his $20k+ system.


-- 
highdudgeon

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Simple and satisfying.

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

I never called you any names. You posted your comments on a public
forum, so you should expect responses from others.

As I pointed out earlier, your statement about dsl/cable, internet
radio, and playlists was either indicative of a misunderstanding of how
networks work, or incoherent.

You have not addressed this point at all. Given your aggressive and
petulant behavior towards others in this thread, I must say that your
sudden attack of sensitivity takes me aback.

The only assumptions I made were about the nature of the English
language. You either were wrong, or can't express yourself in an
understandable manner. In either case, the issue is with you, and not
with anyone else.

If you aggressively attack someone else in a manner that can only  be
construed as either incorrect or incoherent, you can expect others to
call you on it.

Thank you so much for ruining this thread.
Finally, I will not admit myself to be wrong simply because I don't
think that I am.



mauidan;133895 Wrote: 
> Since you don't know me, you made a big assumption by inferring that I
> didn't understand how to use a router. 
> 
> Who ask you to give a "reasonable reading" of what I wrote?
> 
> Instead of accepting that you're wrong, now you feel the need
> to call me names.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

totoro;133893 Wrote: 
> I made no assumptions, merely gave the most reasonable reading I could
> to what you wrote.
> 
> If you would prefer to be considered incoherent, fine.

Since you don't know me, you made a big assumption by inferring that I
didn't understand how to use a router. 

Who ask you to give a "reasonable reading" of what I wrote?

Instead of accepting that you're wrong, now you feel the need
to call me names.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

Sorry, I don't have any mods, and I've really only just started playing
with the thing (meaning the behringer).

Between trying to get the room issues sorted out and figure out whether
my speakers are really the main cause of the sibilance, I'm somewhat
overwhelmed.

But so far, the equalization has helped. 

I had a creek cd-53, and  got rid of it because I thought the sb3 was
hands-down better (but that was when I was using the triangles: I
honestly suspect that my new speakers are the culprits here, I'll have
to see). 

If you're interested in the behringer, google something like:
thorsten loesch behringer ultracurve.

He wrote a pretty good guide to using it, as well as an informative
review.

I know this is a controversial thing to say, but I think that jitter is
a sort of 2nd order problem, and that speaker placement, room acoustics,
good amplification and good speakers are probably all more 1st order.

Sorry if this doesn't help.


SoftwireEngineer;133886 Wrote: 
> totoro,
> Do you have any mods ? Do you feel that the Behringer is helping in
> reducing jitter ? (i.e if you have tested with Behringer in the chain
> with the equalisation switched off).
> What other sources have you compared the SB3 with ? and how do they
> differ ? 
> 
> Someone here is using the SB with a Pann XR57 digital amplifier
> receiver (like me). I would like to hear from people like that too.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

totoro;133884 Wrote: 
> A direct quote from you:
> 
> "I don't have DSL/Cable, so I have no interest in Internet radio or
> creating playlists."
> 
> If this sentence is not to be read as a complete non sequitur, it can
> only be inferred that you believe dsl/cable to be necessary in order to
> use playlists. 
> 
> This is clearly not the case, as all that is necessary in order to use
> playlists is a squeezebox communicating with a server. In order to have
> a squeezebox communicate with a server, it is sufficient to have them
> both hooked up to a router, with no dsl/cable involved.
> 
> So, either you were incoherent or you did not understand how ip
> addresses are assigned inside a home network. I chose what I thought
> was the more charitable interpretation.
> 
> You will note that I did not anywhere state that you did not know how
> to set up a functioning home network, but that you appeared not to know
> how ip addresses were assigned by such a router. You will further note
> that I actually said "apparent", as in apparent from what you had said
> earlier in the thread.

Let me be more clear, I don't have high speed access and Internet
radio doesn't function very well over dial-up. I don't use
playlists, because I have no want or need for them. 

It has nothing to do with understanding how to set up a router, so your
assumptions were wrong.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[SoftwireEngineer]

totoro,
Do you have any mods ? Do you feel that the Behringer is helping in
reducing jitter ? (i.e if you have tested with Behringer in the chain
with the equalisation switched off).
What other sources have you compared the SB3 with ? and how do they
differ ? 

Someone here is using the SB with a Pann XR57 digital amplifier
receiver (like me). I would like to hear from people like that too.


-- 
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

A direct quote from you:

"I don't have DSL/Cable, so I have no interest in Internet radio or
creating playlists."

If this sentence is not to be read as a complete non sequitur, it can
only be inferred that you believe dsl/cable to be necessary in order to
use playlists. 

This is clearly not the case, as all that is necessary in order to use
playlists is a squeezebox communicating with a server. In order to have
a squeezebox communicate with a server, it is sufficient to have them
both hooked up to a router, with no dsl/cable involved.

So, either you were incoherent or you did not understand how ip
addresses are assigned inside a home network. I chose what I thought
was the more charitable interpretation.

You will note that I did not anywhere state that you did not know how
to set up a functioning home network, but that you appeared not to know
how ip addresses were assigned by such a router. You will further note
that I actually said "apparent", as in apparent from what you had said
earlier in the thread. 


mauidan;133882 Wrote: 
> Where did I post that I don't know how to set up a router or create
> playlist?  Hint- Please don't assume things about me or anyone else
> that you don't know.


-- 
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

totoro;133876 Wrote: 
> Umm-- I went back and reread this thread, just to see if I was missing
> something: nothing in the thread before your initial flameout justified
> the nastiness of your posts. Perhaps you have good reasons, based on
> prior interactions, for this hostility, but you have not articulated
> them. Even if you had, it would probably have been better to pm him.
> 
> In any event, the hostility here clearly originates from you. You r
> claim that highdudgeon's posts are jokes is also undermined by your
> apparent inability to understand how a home router assigns ip
> addresses, and how this relates to the ability to use playlists (hint,
> it only does insofar as it allows the squeezebox to work at all): this
> does not speak well of your technical perspicuity.

Where did I post that I don't know how to set up a router or create
playlist?  Hint- Please don't assume things about me or anyone else
that you don't know.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter: to hell with cynicism, I'm getting one. Now, how to use it, Sean?

[totoro]

How similar to the older spendors are the harbeths? I had a pair of
s100s that were my first "real" speakers, and they were great in many
respects (their big downside was that they sounded best playing
orchestral music at pretty high volumes).

The reason I ask is that they look superficially very similar.

highdudgeon;133851 Wrote: 
> Largely in terms of aesthetics, I guess.  They are box speakers that
> require stands.  A lot of people seem to prefer modernistic or some
> such "statement" design.  Harbeth's "statement" is the sound.
> 
> Aside from that, like I said, they are extremely neutral and linear. 
> Some people might not like that.  Lots of speakers out there have
> pushed mid-ranges, highs, or especially lows, to attract certain kinds
> of listeners.  Harbeths are designs to be linear and true to the
> recording -- they're supposed to get the speaker and the room, as much
> as possible, out of the equation.
> 
> Read the HL5 review in Sphile.  To me, it's apples and oranges.  the
> 30s have the top of the line tweeter.  The HL5 has greater bass
> extension.  I could be very happy with either one.  I *like* the small
> size of the 30s, and, I guess, that's why I went with them.  Also, they
> image like crazy.
> 
> Again, if you're into very LOUD music (these are essentially studio
> monitors and not made for extended play over 90db), into party
> speakers, etc., then Harbeth are not for you.  If you want good value,
> great build quality, don't mind plain-Jane looks, and most of all are
> after accurate sound, then they should be on your short-list.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[kevin]

I've been getting many complaints about this thread, specifically about
the use of first names where they are not wanted.

You know who you are.  Please be civil to eachother.  This nice thread
ended up turning in to a flame war...

We do not like to censor things, either.  We abhor censorship.  So to
the parties involved in the flame war, please take it to PMs, and if
there are things you want removed from eachothers posts, kindly ask the
other party if they will do so.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

Umm-- I went back and reread this thread, just to see if I was missing
something: nothing in the thread before your initial flameout justified
the nastiness of your posts. Perhaps you have good reasons, based on
prior interactions, for this hostility, but you have not articulated
them. Even if you had, it would probably have been better to pm him.

In any event, the hostility here clearly originates from you. You r
claim that highdudgeon's posts are jokes is also undermined by your
apparent inability to understand how a home router assigns ip
addresses, and how this relates to the ability to use playlists (hint,
it only does insofar as it allows the squeezebox to work at all): this
does not speak well of your technical perspecuity.

mauidan;133870 Wrote: 
> George -
> 
> I check this forum for updates that might yield higher performance, and
> new product developments. 
> 
> I read your posts when I need a good laugh.
> 
> PS- thanks for the feedback.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

highdudgeon;133865 Wrote: 
> You have got to be kidding.  Your post was clearly and openly sarcastic
> and hostile -- as others observed.  
> 
> But, really, I asked a simple question: if you disdain the device, why
> do you waste time on this forum?  Whatever.  I don't have more time for
> the logically impaired.

George -

I check this forum for updates that might yield higher performance, and
new product developments. 

I read your posts when I need a good laugh.

PS- thanks for the feedback.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

mauidan;133855 Wrote: 
> George- I asked some simple questions and you respond with a personal
> attack. 
> 
> I gave the SB to my son. He's an MP3 user and loves it.

You have got to be kidding.  Your post was clearly and openly sarcastic
and hostile -- as others observed.  

But, really, I asked a simple question: if you disdain the device, why
do you waste time on this forum?  Whatever.  I don't have more time for
the logically impaired.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

Thanks for the comments.

EQ and room treatments have pretty obvious effects, both in terms of
measurement and hearing, and are used heavily in pro audio, unlike
exotic interconnects/power cords/tweaks, so I'm more inclined to take
them seriously :).

As far as the speakers go, I'm a little on the fence. They sound great
for some music (especially jazz), but I'm getting a fair amount of
sibilance on vocals (esp on choral music). The bass is also a bit much
for my room: these problems combined are what prompted me to look into
room treatments and eq (just got the aps recently).

If I can't get it to work, I'll put the aps up on audiogon, and go back
to my trusty celiuses (nowhere near as good as the aps in most ways, but
I don't have nearly the same sibilance problems with them in the
system).

I've had the mccormack and classe for many years: they're nice and
solid, and have always just worked.

Thinking of getting the class d integrated from av123 to play with (as
far as I can tell, it'll be a ucd amp, and sounds like it'll be using
the new hypex smps, so it should be pretty good sounding) when it comes
out--- it'll be amusing if it replaces the mccormack/classe, since the
price is going to be around $200.

Can't even compare the sb3 to my cd player to see if that's the main
culprit, because I got rid of the cd player almost as soon as I got the
squeezebox!


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

highdudgeon;133836 Wrote: 
> Then why on earth are you remotely interested in the Squeeze Box? 
> Clearly, you disdain the product, you have no need or ability to take
> advantage of its abilities, so why bother trolling this forum?
> 
> Yes, I do think that an external DAC makes a difference.   However,
> read closely: I found the differences between a stock SB3 and and SB3
> with the mentioned units to be one of nuance.  Very diserable, at
> times, but hardly mentionable, at others.  To me, the law of
> diminishing returns applied.  Besides, I didn't like the clutter of
> multiple boxes.  I made NO mention of it needing an external DAC. 
> That's in your imagination.  JA used it as a transport WITH an external
> DAC.
> 
> Oh, and this: I happen to think that the stock SB3, with analog
> outputs, is actually quite good.  Not fantastic, to be sure, but good
> enough to put CD players in the thousand dollar range to shame. 
> Believe it or not, CD players in that price range are more than good
> enough for a lot of people.
> 
> I will buy the Transporter for a few reasons: build quality, a DAC that
> sounds like it could be even better than a Lavry -- which would raise
> the level of "nuance" -- superb power supply, built-in attenuation,
> which means safe operation without a line stage, adaptability to
> 220/240, etc.
> 
> Of course, I know you wrote this note simply because you like to bait
> me, but there's an answer.  I think you've gone a good job of showing
> off your silliness.  You think the SB3 is a piece of crap, you can't
> use some of its more interesting features, but you're lonely or bored
> enough to keep trolling this forum.  Bon chance.  PS, that was an
> obvious type: I meant couch, obviously.  I have no idea how you sit and
> don't care.  Like 90% or more of users here, my listening setup is in my
> living room.  That means actual furniture, sharing music with friends,
> etc.  Changing CDs is no ordeal, obviously; the SB is just wonderfully
> convenient.  Again, if you don't like or need the device, why do you
> continue to post on this forum?  This must be rather like your habit of
> prowling through forums from which you've been kicked off and
> periodically assailing forum members and owners with laughable vitriol.

George- I asked some simple question and you respond with a personal
attack. 

I gave the SB to my son. He's an MP3 user and loves it.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power Supply Downgrade

[Andrew L . Weekes]

> Maybe one of Andrew Weeks' Super Regulators feeding a series-pass power
> transistor might be the answer?

No need for an additional series pass transistor - a standard super-reg
can provide 1.5A continuous if built to current spec.

Andy.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter: to hell with cynicism, I'm getting one. Now, how to use it, Sean?

[highdudgeon]

Largely in terms of aesthetics, I guess.  They are box speakers that
require stands.  A lot of people seem to prefer modernistic or some
such "statement" design.  Harbeth's "statement" is the sound.

Aside from that, like I said, they are extremely neutral and linear. 
Some people might not like that.  Lots of speakers out there have
pushed mid-ranges, highs, or especially lows, to attract certain kinds
of listeners.  Harbeths are designs to be linear and true to the
recording -- they're supposed to get the speaker and the room, as much
as possible, out of the equation.

Read the HL5 review in Sphile.  To me, it's apples and oranges.  the
30s have the top of the line tweeter.  The HL5 has greater bass
extension.  I could be very happy with either one.  I *like* the small
size of the 30s, and, I guess, that's why I went with them.  Also, they
image like crazy.

Again, if you're into very LOUD music (these are essentially studio
monitors and not made for extended play over 90db), into party
speakers, etc., then Harbeth are not for you.  If you want good value,
great build quality, don't mind plain-Jane looks, and most of all are
after accurate sound, then they should be on your short-list.


-- 
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

Totoro - thanks for the nice comment.  By the way, that's one hell of a
system -- and one hell of a SMART system, too.  The Behringer is one of
the biggest bang-for-the-buck units out there and proper EQ has a
greater effect than any business to do with cables and other esoterica.
I know guys with $10+ speakers using it.

Great speakers, too!


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: How much difference do you think a new DAC would make for my system

[totoro]

Thanks for the advice. That was pretty much my plan. I just realized
that, as it stands, I have to use the analoque outs of the  behringer.


So maybe I will get the dac before the sub. I agree about the room
treatments, as well.

I know a lot of people are looking forward to the transporter, but I
_really_ don't like the way it looks, and it has to be visible in order
to be useful. So I'll probably get a dac that has a timing output, which
I can hook up to the behringer and hide.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[totoro]

Hmm-- I thought highdugeon gave me good advice, and that he was quite
sincere.

He clearly said in a couple of places that, in general, an external dac
is probably not on a good place on his cost/benefit curve, but that,
essentially, ymmv, and that the performance is not absolutely world
beating. 

Don't really see that as contradicting his desire to get a
transporter.

As far as needing dsl to use playlists, I think you're a little unclear
on the concept. You need an _internal_ network to use it, but your
router doesn't have to be hooked up to anything in order to assign an
ip address to your server and squeezebox.

If you have a >1k cd collection and really don't mind pawing through
it, more power to you. But most people with that many cds find it
pretty tedious.

mauidan;133801 Wrote: 
> From: the thread- How much difference do you think a new DAC would make
> for my system, highdudgeon said:
> 
> "Personally, I went though the Lavry DA10 and a Benchmark. I found the
> differences to be on the level of nuance -- when they were there at
> all. So, I ditched them, and am running the SB3 directly to my amps"
> 
> I'm confused. You've posted that an external DAC didn't make a big
> improvement, now you're agreeing that the SB needs one? Are you buying
> a Transporter to use it as a transport?
> 
> I don't have DSL/Cable, so I have no interest in Internet radio or
> creating playlists. 
> 
> I don't have a "coach" in my listening room, and I don't mind getting
> up to change the CDs in my transports or the LP on the TT.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

Phil Leigh;133837 Wrote: 
> In which case you don't have enough CD's or your couch/coach is not
> comfortable enough...

Bravo!  I've got a terabyte of CD's stored away, and a pile more than
need to be ripped.

And all of this with a $300 box.  Humble bows, as always, to Slim
Devices.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

mauidan;133801 Wrote: 
> From: the thread- How much difference do you think a new DAC would make
> for my system, highdudgeon said:
> 
> "Personally, I went though the Lavry DA10 and a Benchmark. I found the
> differences to be on the level of nuance -- when they were there at
> all. So, I ditched them, and am running the SB3 directly to my amps"
> 
> I'm confused. You've posted that an external DAC didn't make a big
> improvement, now you're agreeing that the SB needs one? Are you buying
> a Transporter to use it as a transport?
> 
> I don't have DSL/Cable, so I have no interest in Internet radio or
> creating playlists. 
> 
> I don't have a "coach" in my listening room, and I don't mind getting
> up to change the CDs in my transports or the LP on the TT.

Then why on earth are you remotely interested in the Squeeze Box? 
Clearly, you disdain the product, you have no need or ability to take
advantage of its abilities, so why bother trolling this forum?

Yes, I do think that an external DAC makes a difference.  However, read
closely: I found the differences between a stock SB3 and and SB3 with
the mentioned units to be one of nuance.  Very diserable, at times, but
hardly mentionable, at others.  To me, the law of diminishing returns
applied.  Besides, I didn't like the clutter of multiple boxes.

Oh, and this: I happen to think that the stock SB3, with analog
outputs, is actually quite good.  Not fantastic, to be sure, but good
enough to put CD players in the thousand dollar range to shame. 
Believe it or not, CD players in that price range are more than good
enough for a lot of people.

I will buy the Transporter for a few reasons: build quality, a DAC that
sounds like it could be even better than a Lavry -- which would raise
the level of "nuance" -- superb power supply, built-in attenuation,
which means safe operation without a line stage, adaptability to
220/240, etc.

Of course, I know you wrote this note simply because you like to bait
me, but there's an answer.  I think you've gone a good job of showing
off your silliness.  You think the SB3 is a piece of crap, you can't
use some of its more interesting features, but you're lonely or bored
enough to keep trolling this forum.  Bon chance.  PS, that was an
obvious type: I meant couch, obviously.  I have no idea how you sit and
don't care.  Like 90% or more of users here, my listening setup is in my
living room.  That means actual furniture, sharing music with friends,
etc.  Changing CDs is no ordeal, obviously; the SB is just wonderfully
convenient.  Again, if you don't like or need the device, why do you
continue to post on this forum?


-- 
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[Phil Leigh]

mauidan;133801 Wrote: 
>  
> 
> I don't have a "coach" in my listening room, and I don't mind getting
> up to change the CDs in my transports or the LP on the TT.

In which case you don't have enough CD's or your couch/coach is not
comfortable enough...


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[mauidan]

highdudgeon;133786 Wrote: 
> Which was the actual point of the review -- that, as a transport, the
> Squeezebox is, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable from a
> kilo-buck transport used with a quality DAC.  (Moreover, if the DAC
> were of the true re-clocking variety, there would be no difference. 
> Like many people, I have a feeling that JA had to give some edge to his
> reference transport because, after all, this is a high end magazine,
> etc.
> 
> Not bad for a $300 plastic box.  Especially not bad for a $300 plastic
> box that offers wireless connectivity, access to Internet radio, the
> ability to use playlists, the ability to scan and use your entire
> library without getting up from the coach, etc.
> 
> No doubt, this is why the Transporter will rock.

From: the thread- How much difference do you think a new DAC would make
for my system, highdudgeon said:

"Personally, I went though the Lavry DA10 and a Benchmark. I found the
differences to be on the level of nuance -- when they were there at
all. So, I ditched them, and am running the SB3 directly to my amps"

I'm confused. You've posted that an external DAC didn't make a big
improvement, now you're agreeing that the SB needs one? Are you buying
a Transporter to use it as a transport?

I don't have DSL/Cable, so I have no interest in Internet radio or
creating playlists. 

I don't have a "coach" in my listening room, and I don't mind getting
up to change the CDs in my transports or the LP on the TT.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter: to hell with cynicism, I'm getting one. Now, how to use it, Sean?

[pvadbx]

highdudgeon;133595 Wrote: 
> I'm biased -- I'm a long term Harbeth fan and love how they deliver
> music.  They are not for everyone.  

I've read great things about them, and am considering the HL5s, which
would have better bass extension than the 30s but not be as large as
the M40s.  Just curious, in what way do you consider Harbeths sonically
"not for everyone"?  I'm also looking at the Von Schweikerts, which I
understand are pretty different sounding but also good.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3/DAC direct to power amp

[highdudgeon]

Skunk;133753 Wrote: 
> I wonder if there are any sonic benefits of the new 100 step volume
> control in 6.5? I've only been using it a few days, but already am
> liking it more than the 40 step.

How stable is 6.5?


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[highdudgeon]

JohnnyLightOn;133760 Wrote: 
> ^ Use the SB3's digital out to an outboard DAC and THEN tell us how it
> sounds.  :)

Which was the actual point of the review -- that, as a transport, the
Squeezebox is, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable from a
kilo-buck transport used with a quality DAC.  (Moreover, if the DAC
were of the true re-clocking variety, there would be no difference. 
Like many people, I have a feeling that JA had to give some edge to his
reference transport because, after all, this is a high end magazine,
etc.

Not bad for a $300 plastic box.  Especially not bad for a $300 plastic
box that offers wireless connectivity, access to Internet radio, the
ability to use playlists, the ability to scan and use your entire
library without getting up from the coach, etc.

No doubt, this is why the Transporter will rock.


-- 
highdudgeon

SB3->Nuforce 9.02->Harbeth Monitor 30s/Skylan stands and Quad ESL-988s. 
Simple and satisfying.

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[SoftwireEngineer]

JohnnyLightOn;133760 Wrote: 
> ^ Use the SB3's digital out to an outboard DAC and THEN tell us how it
> sounds.  :)

Yup, atleast the added detail/texture in the music from the EAC ripped
audio should be apparent. And in my case (compared to a $400 Philips
963SA DVD player) there is no edge/digital harshnes (with a $50 glass
toslink from SOund Professionals)


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[TiredLegs]

^ I agree with JohnnyLightOn. It is pointless for anyone here in the
Audiophile forum to be assessing the SB3 by its analog output. I could
easily detect audible weaknesses in the internal DAC, but I'm getting
killer sound from the digital output through an external DAC.


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TiredLegs

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review

[JohnnyLightOn]

^ Use the SB3's digital out to an outboard DAC and THEN tell us how it
sounds.  :)


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3/DAC direct to power amp

[Skunk]

I wonder if there are any sonic benefits of the new 100 step volume
control in 6.5? I've only been using it a few days, but already am
liking it more than the 40 step.


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