[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
jhm731;158258 Wrote: > Here's a quote from modifier/designer Alex Peychev(APLHIFI)'s forum > about your "smoking" measurements: > > "Those guys will never learn. At -60db you will need to go and put your > ear on the speaker driver in order to hear something, so who cares about > -130db noise floor of your digital source which, for example, is usually > brought 60db up with a regular tube amplifier. > > Here is the puzzling thing; the NWO-2.5 has barely -105db noise floor > and barely -86db (0.0056%) THD+N. Note the tube stage is non-NFB. > According to Mr. CEO, his Transporter should sound around 2 times > better than the NWO-2.5 WOW!" > > To prove your statement isn't "pure hype," why don't you contact > Mr.Peychev and one of the audio clubs on audiocircle.com and arrange > for a shootout with his NWO-2.5? Invite the other modifiers to bring > their modified Transporters too. I think I already conceded that measurements aren't everything. However, a lot of people seem to care about jitter and power supply noise, and these are measurable things where we can easily show that x is better than y, and by precisely how many db or whatever. And I never said Transporter sounds "2 times better" than anything, so please don't put words in my mouth. In fact, I wouldn't even claim it "sounds better" than a tube amp, although I can tell you precisely how much better the SNR is, for example. Can I hear stuff 120db down? Nope, I doubt it, but some other people here on the forum have proved that they CAN hear some pretty incredibly tiny sounds, such as the effects of different rounding and dithering algorithms applied to the LSB of a 16-bit signal. Also, have you considered that there could be things you can't consciously hear even at -60db (or even at full volume, eg phase linearity), but which might be absolutely critical to conveying realism? -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
seanadams;158249 Wrote: > However, when someone claims pefectly empirical improvements like "lower > noise power supply" with no rationale or data to back them up, I will > object. > > Your sentence above, said it all for me. If a modder or anyone else is > claiming (for example) a reduction in jitter when it can be measured and > disproven I hope you do speak up, and thank you for doing so. I agree > with your following post, as well. Once you clarified you mean > specific measurements when you say Transporter is "unsurpassed". If > someone is to claim you guilty of hype, then (given your clarification) > they should show on what specific measurement and against what specific > rival machine you have "overstated" your claim. > > I would hope that modders could show some empirical, instrumented, > improvements. On the other hand, I wouldnt claim a modder is full of > BS simply because all he could say is he performed listening tests and > found his mods sounded better. I would take that as information, even > if not very compelling information. It would be more compelling if he > could substantiate it was done independently, with a variety of > equipment, a variety of listeners, there was some control for bias, > listening was done over an extended period of time, etc. Of course, > most compelling would be if said modder could report results of > empirical listening tests. Having a social and not physical science > background I believe there is a way to make non-instrumented testing > empirical as well. Unfortunately, I dont think we have found it yet. -- atkinsonrr Transporter, Quicksilver V4 Monos, Vandersteen Model 5A speakers. SB3, Quad Tube Pre-Amp, Tube Monos, Quad ESLs. Homemade Tripath Digital amps, Carver ALS (original) Speakers with Outboard Crossovers. atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Here's a quote from modifier/designer Alex Peychev(APLHIFI)'s forum about your "smoking" measurements: "Those guys will never learn. At -60db you will need to go and put your ear on the speaker driver in order to hear something, so who cares about -130db noise floor of your digital source which, for example, is usually brought 60db up with a regular tube amplifier. Here is the puzzling thing; the NWO-2.5 has barely -105db noise floor and barely -86db (0.0056%) THD+N. Note the tube stage is non-NFB. According to Mr. CEO, his Transporter should sound around 2 times better than the NWO-2.5 WOW!" To prove your statement isn't "pure hype," why don't you contact Mr.Peychev and one of the audio clubs on audiocircle.com and arrange for a shootout with his NWO-2.5? Invite the other modifiers to bring their modified Transporters too. seanadams;158255 Wrote: > To be clear, I am talking about objectively measurable performance (SNR, > jitter, dynamic range etc), which admittedly is not the be-all-end-all > of perceived sound quality. However, it's a lot better than nothing! I > will happily eat my hat and retract that statement as soon as I (or > anyone else) can find anything that performs better than Transporter. > > Also, all of the test data that I post here on the forums includes all > the necessary setup information for anyone with similar measuring > equipment to independently verify. For example, here is the Transporter > smoking the Benchmark DAC1 and the dScope's built-in signal generator in > a noise floor and jitter measurement: > > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28126 > > I will _never_ expect you to take my word for it. Go ahead and try > these tests for yourself - you don't need a $13K analyzer, you can also > get useful comparative measurements with a good sound card and the > RightMark software. Try blind ABX listening too. > > If you're going to shoot down my claim as "pure hype" then I hope you > can back up your position. I've done my best to articulate mine. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
jhm731;158250 Wrote: > > PS- IMO, the SD's Transporter marketing statement- "And performance > that is not matched by ANY product that we've been able to find." Is > pure hype! To be clear, I am talking about objectively measurable performance (SNR, jitter, dynamic range etc), which admittedly is not the be-all-end-all of perceived sound quality. However, it's a lot better than nothing! I will happily eat my hat and retract that statement as soon as I can find anything that performs better than Transporter. Also, all of the test data that I post here on the forums includes all the necessary setup information for anyone with similar measuring equipment to independently verify. For example, here is the Transporter smoking the Benchmark DAC1 and the dScope's built-in signal generator in a noise floor and jitter measurement: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28126 I will _never_ expect you to take my word for it. Go ahead and try these tests for yourself - you don't need a $13K analyzer, you can also get useful comparative measurements with a good sound card and the RightMark software. Try blind ABX listening too. If you're going to shoot down my claim as "pure hype" then I hope you can back up your position. I've done my best to articulate mine. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
highdudgeon;158213 Wrote: > Okay, so tell us what you know about the Transporter (which should be > plenty, if you've done your research, because SD has been open about > design and results). Tell us, too, about some measurement differences > with all these goodies and why, specifically, they should result in > anything more than...well...equal or degraded signal? I'm guessing > you're paying at least a grand, or close to that, and that you've been > told the background will be black, there will be more air, etc. Words > are one thing; facts are another; the power of suggestion is powerful > indeed. > > I appreciate your input here, as I think it may be coming from concern, thinking there was something that he hadnt considered but should probably consider before making a big financial decision. But the above quote sounds like you feel he owes you (or any of us for that matter) a justificaton of why he wants to spend his own money, and that he must explain it in using only THD or jitter specs or someting? I really dont think this is a reasonable request. He's already said that he is doing it based on the track record of his own experience with the modded SB. So, one could say he is doing it out of trust in Boulder Mods. You might argue his trust is misplaced, but I would bet he believes his trust is justified by his own experience. Shouldnt his own experience be the final arbiter? At this point you might say that he was fooled by psycho-acoutic or simply psychological factors. In other words sometimes your own experience can lie. I agree with that. But if he's like most of us (incredibly intelligent!!) people who habit this forum, I again would bet that he did some kind of A-B testing. Is the A-B testing up to a standard that we would all accept? Maybe not. Its obvious you have real passion for finding the truth in audio. But, I dont think you are gonna persuade or change his mind by demanding that he provide all the justification you are demanding. But if we could put some of our collective passion into developing a listening testing scheme that we could all endorse. Now THAT would be worth the energy! -- atkinsonrr Transporter, Quicksilver V4 Monos, Vandersteen Model 5A speakers. SB3, Quad Tube Pre-Amp, Tube Monos, Quad ESLs. Homemade Tripath Digital amps, Carver ALS (original) Speakers with Outboard Crossovers. atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Gary G. posts that he's having his Transporter modified and the SD's CEO and one of his dealers, highdudgeon (George Day), attack the guy. Why shouldn't he mod it? In the review that started this thread, J.Bray- said of Transporter: But it isn't,alas, as good as a traditional CD or SACD player of similar price. In back-to-back listening sessions against a Unison Research Unico CD player, which incidentally sells for £100 less than the Transporter, it lacked the punch, presence and sheer excitement on offer from the humble disc spinner. Where the Transporter was clinically accurate, and revealed as much detail, it simply didn't project the music into the room as much as the CD player did. I'm sure Gary G's modified Wadia sounds a lot better than a Unison Research Unico CD player Then acm said it's doesn't sound as good as his stock Denon 5910. KimR said the Transporter doesn't sound any better than his SB3 off the digital outputs. If all the parts in the Transporter are so good, how could this happen? IMO, it's Gary's unit and he can do whatever he wants to it, and he doesn't owe anyone an explanation. PS- IMO, the SD's Transporter marketing statement- "And performance that is not matched by ANY product that we've been able to find." Is pure hype! -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
atkinsonrr;158245 Wrote: > > > Sean-- I have seen you post similar thoughts on other threads. This > quote seems to indicate you believe all modders are stupid or > disingenuous. I hope you dont mean that, cause I sometimes mod (my > own) equipment. I even believe that in some cases, simple component > swaps are warranted. I will give you one specific example: switching a > run of the mill electrolytic cap at the output of a CD player for a film > type. > > So when you say things that seem to say "all modders" I feel like "the > enemy" even tho I am a customer of yours and obviously value what you > create. If you mean, "in this particular case, I feel it ill-advised > to modify Transporter in this way for this reason" I am all with you, > and very interested in what you have to say. Otherwise, I'm just kinda > put off. You are absolutely right. I should have qualified that, and I apologize. There most certainly _ARE_ modders who know what they're doing. Indeed, some ideas in Transporter including the super regulators were not only inspired by a modder (Andrew Weekes), but were actually implemented with his personal assistance. Other concepts including some tweaks to control jitter were carefully tested, and some of them were incorporated. What I was objecting to was the blatantly non-scientific, irrational, absurd, deceiving stuff which is easy for those of us with any design experience to spot, but to anyone else looks no more mumbo-jumbo than the real thing. I should also point out that we're not going to immediately sell more Transporters by dissing modders. They are in fact driving sales or us. However, when someone claims pefectly empirical improvements like "lower noise power supply" with no rationale or data to back them up, I will object. There is always room for improvement, but it's folly to assume that any mod is an improvement. EDIT: and none of this should diminish the fun of tweaking to suit your own taste. However, that is very very different from charging money to "upgrade" a product while claiming objective improvements which are provably BS. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
seanadams;158204 Wrote: > More to the point: modders will have you believe that audio is magical, > and that any product can be improved in a few minutes by soldering in > certain aftermarket parts (which for some reason original manufacturers > don't use - go figure). > > > > > > > > > Sean-- I have seen you post similar thoughts on other threads. This > > quote seems to indicate you believe all modders are stupid or > > disingenuous. I hope you dont mean that, cause I sometimes mod (my > > own) equipment. I even believe that in some cases, simple component > > swaps are warranted. I will give you one specific example: switching a > > run of the mill electrolytic cap at the output of a CD player for a film > > type. > > > > So when you say things that seem to say "all modders" I feel like "the > > enemy" even tho I am a customer of yours and obviously value what you > > create. If you mean, "in this particular case, I feel it ill-advised > > to modify Transporter in this way for this reason" I am all with you, > > and very interested in what you have to say. Otherwise, I'm just kinda > > put off. -- atkinsonrr Transporter, Quicksilver V4 Monos, Vandersteen Model 5A speakers. SB3, Quad Tube Pre-Amp, Tube Monos, Quad ESLs. Homemade Tripath Digital amps, Carver ALS (original) Speakers with Outboard Crossovers. atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
I must be the only perfect one here. hehehe -- Greg Erskine Greg Erskine's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7403 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
jonheal;158013 Wrote: > Really folks, I think several of you need to just let go. Clearly, no > one's going to get the "last word" in, and at this point, all you're > doing is pouring salt into wounds and contributing to the build up of > your own stomach acid. > > We're all imperfect creatures. We all have quirks and annoying traits. > And generally, those traites we find most annoying in others are those > that we ourselves possess. > > Why don't we draw a line in the sand and move forward on a positive > note. Frankly, if everyone turned the other cheek a little more often > instead of sniping back, the world would be a hell of a lot more > pleasant to live in. > > Forums don't need moderators so much as people need to moderate > themselves. > > Here are some of my annoying traits: > - I interrupt people when they're talking > - I don't listen well > - I often don't give people the benefit of the doubt > - I'm often negative > - I'm selfish Even tho repetitive I have to say this is right on. Heck I'll even admit to having the same annoying traits plus some we wont go into here... :=) Thanks Jon -- atkinsonrr Transporter, Quicksilver V4 Monos, Vandersteen Model 5A speakers. SB3, Quad Tube Pre-Amp, Tube Monos, Quad ESLs. Homemade Tripath Digital amps, Carver ALS (original) Speakers with Outboard Crossovers. atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
I just want to make it clear (maybe it wasn't in my post) that I'm not arguing for modding. I think "boutique" should be left for hairdos and fingernails, not capacitors and resistors (curling irons?). -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3->EZDAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
is there any place in canada where i can audition the transporter? -- Konig Konig's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8490 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
Some additional insight on my design idea: The expected 30 W output is due to the fact that bi amping provides twice as much effective power then the sum of the 5W + 5W of usable power of the Tripath http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm In addition the typical 5 woofer used in similar consumer speakers has an efficiency of 84-86 SPL versus the 91SPL of the Dayton. I am a little worried about the rigid aluminum cone (this may cause breakup at higher frequencies) but there are some $2000 speakers that use it up to 3000 hz! http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/canton_vento_807dc_802_805cm_as800sc.htm The main reason to choose the Dayton is the 91SPL, high quality and relatively low price (if you are lucky youll find this quality on speaker > $1500/pair ). Also I like the phase plug for two reasons: it can not be pushed in by kids and avoids the air spring effect caused by the dust cap compressing air on the core. This is also a non shielded drivers thus higher magnetic flux = higher dampening characteristics (one of my most valued requirements). The TANG BAND 1 silk tweeter is another overachiever of incredible value; the lower sensitivity of 90SPL is not an issue since the expected power requirements is 25% of the woofer. The ideal (lowest) crossover (using 24 db/octave) frequency is expected to be around 2.4khz. This is based on actual tests on my main tri-amp speakers (tweeter Scan Speak). I choose the lowest possible crossover frequency because at this frequency the sound wave length ~5.5 is still bigger then the driver cone diameter. This is key to obtain a high dispersion source (the so called open soundstage). The other advantages of the Linkwitz-Riley 24 db/octave alignment is that the woofer and tweeter are phase aligned. Also eliminating the passive crossover will provide maximum dampening and power efficiency. The DBX crossover matches well with the SB output (I use the three-way version on my main stereo) and solves the main equalization needs between the woofer and tweeter. In short is like having most of the benefits provided by room correction technology without the complexity (and cost). The actual loudspeaker cabinet can be crafted for optimal interaction with the sound generated by the drivers. In practical terms this translates in flush mounting the drivers, provide smooth edges, minimal baffle (reduce the reflective surfaces around the drivers using violin shaped baffle and sound absorbing felt), avoiding parallel surfaces (specific lengths) inside the case, flared bass reflex port (if needed), creative positioning of the fibers of the acoustic stuffing, is all in the details. Last but not least this can be made to look good. Do I expect these active speakers to perform and look better the any active commercial active speaker in their price range (not counting the many hours of work required for this project)? Of course I do. Speaker building is not an art, just common sense engineering. Software programming on the other hand -- arge arge's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Disastrous but profitable. seanadams;158224 Wrote: > Resistors are metal thin-film (lowest thermal noise), and capaitors are > polyethylene film, ceramic, or electrolytic depending on the capacity > and the application. These are very high quality, high precision > passives which are specced for use in measuring instruments. I do not > have manufacturer's part info off the top of my head but could dig it > up if you're really interested. > > You can spot the polyethylene caps as they have a shiny fish-scale-like > surface. There are used in the active filters among other places, and > were found to yield marginally lower noise than than the traditional > polystyrene through-hole parts used in high-end designs. This is > probably mostly by virtue of them being smaller and surface-mounted. > > If you can believe that something as miniscule as the thermal energy in > a resistor is a critical parameter in achieving Transporter's low noise > levels, then it should be pretty obvious that lifting circuitry off the > ground plane and hand-wiring around the chassis would be absolutely > disastrous. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Resistors are metal thin-film (lowest thermal noise), and capaitors are polyethylene film, ceramic, or electrolytic depending on the capacity and the application. These are very high quality, high precision passives which are specced for use in measuring instruments. I do not have manufacturer's part info off the top of my head but could dig it up if you're really interested. You can spot the polyethylene caps as they have a shiny fish-scale-like surface. There are used in the active filters among other places, and were found to yield marginally lower noise than than the traditional polystyrene through-hole parts used in high-end designs. This is probably mostly by virtue of them being smaller and surface-mounted. If you can believe that something as miniscule as the thermal energy in a resistor is a critical parameter in achieving Transporter's low noise levels, then it should be pretty obvious that lifting circuitry off the ground plane and hand-wiring around the chassis would be absolutely disastrous. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Questions on my setup
ModelCitizen;158070 Wrote: > > Mute SB3 analog outputs (0),MC I thought setting the analog output to 63 was the equivalent of muting it...? -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30098 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Even if one were to mod the Transporter, it seems to me there aren't that many things to change. Modders tend to first seek out through-hole caps and 8-DIP op amps, but I don't see any on the Transporter (or very few I might have missed them). The earlier poster said something about lower noise decoupling caps? There's not really that much variety with smt caps that I've seen. Assuming they are already COG, X5R, or X7R, what are we really looking to change here? There are some lower noise leaded resistors (Vishay), but I'm guessing the Transporter already has similar ones where appropriate. Maybe Sean or someone else at SD can confirm this. In some cases, especially when components are trimmed, the last thing you want to do is fool with the original design and build by swapping out chips. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3->EZDAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
seanadams;158204 Wrote: > And performance that is not matched by ANY product that we've been able > to find. Well see, I was wrong. That was not just a flippant marketing statement on the website. Gary, as others on this thread, I'd advise to try it for a week or so before you decide to mod it. I don't believe in the concept of burn-in but for some reason it did sound even better after about a week. And as I stated before, don't take that reviewer's opinion as a universal scale of what's better than what. I mean there's no accounting for taste. Here's what I do know - I just heard Dire Straits' -So Far Away-. I've heard that track so many times over the years but on the Transporter I hear all sorts of little details I've never heard before. Little ticks, subtle small sounds, etc. A reviewer noted that the Transporter seems to be very good at separating sounds, making small little things not get lost in much louder sounds. I have no idea of the technical reason for that, but I feel it's very true. When I was doing comparison tests between the SB3 and the Transporter, when I switched to the Transporter input, I got the distinct impression I was falling forward, especially if I closed my eyes. You remember the Nestea commercial? Like that. It's like the floor opened up. Again, I'm not sure what the technical reasons are for this, but clearly something unusual is going on that my brain is trying to interpret. Try it out for a week. Then you can either mod it or return it under the 30-day guarantee. My guess is, Slim hasn't received many back. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Okay, so tell us what you know about the Transporter (which should be plenty, if you've done your research, because SD has been open about design and results). Tell us, too, about some measurement differences with all these goodies and why, specifically, they should result in anything more than...well...equal or degraded signal? I'm guessing you're paying at least a grand, or close to that, and that you've been told the background will be black, there will be more air, etc. Words are one thing; facts are another; the power of suggestion is powerful indeed. Then again, like I said, it's your money. I'm just baffled by not even bothering to try the Transporter before sending it of to the chop shop. That smacks of me of less interest in the end result then in personal satisfaction. Again, no offense -- I'm the guy with $9k amps kicking around for a year. I did go into it with open eyes, though. But, really, in the end numbers don't lie. Impressive parts list that make little sense to a layman and even littler sense into how and why they are supposed to accomplish something else do lie. GaryG;158198 Wrote: > What facts would you like? > > Lower impedence power supply. > Lower noise power supply. > Lower noise decoupling caps. > Point-to-point wiring to avoid the di-electric loss in the PCB. > Better voltage regulation. > Lower noise regulators. > > Regards > Gary -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Now, here's an interesting comparison: Transporter analogue outputs SB3 feeding Arcam Black Box 50 (via co-ax SPDIF) Which one will sound better? (Currently got the second one set up in my temporary office.) -- Squirrel Squirrel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5785 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
More to the point: modders will have you believe that audio is magical, and that any product can be improved in a few minutes by soldering in certain aftermarket parts (which for some reason original manufacturers don't use - go figure). Slim Devices boringly skips all of the BS and tells you exactly how we design our products for performance, how they measure, and why they sound better. No magic. All verifiable. And performance that is not matched by ANY product that we've been able to find. I haven't tested the 861se, but I have my doubts as to whether the green coloring applied to its flywheel would give them an edge. If you don't believe me, just hook your modded Transporter up to a good ADC or sound card, run an FFT, and you will see that the modded sound you prefer is nothing more than a bunch of added noise and distortion. You can do this at home. You don't have to take my word for it. However if you don't care what you're really hearing, then please ignore this post and just enjoy your modded Transporter! -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
adamslim;158175 Wrote: > > Make sure you take some great music along, and have fun! Let us know > what you like there. > > Adam Yes. This is important. Bring your own music: the music that makes you want to party, the music that makes you cry, the music that makes you relax, the music that just sounds great. There is nothing wrong with the music that the shop assistant uses; only that it usually is music that show off the good bits and hides the warts. Tom -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
What facts would you like? Lower impedence power supply. Lower noise power supply. Lower noise decoupling caps. Point-to-point wiring to avoid the di-electric loss in the PCB. Better voltage regulation. Lower noise regulators. Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Unless you have some facts about why this should be so...you're kind of working off psychological expectations. Again, it just seems silly not to try the Transporter as it is. GaryG;158193 Wrote: > Well, I'm only going on my experience with my modified CD player and > amps, which sound better than stock. > > Regards > Gary > > EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention my modified Meridian G98 transport, > Wadia 27ix DAC, Audio Synthesis DAX Decade DAC, DAX Discrete DAC and a > few other bits and bobs. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
seanadams;158189 Wrote: > Why on earth would you expect that? Well, I'm only going on my experience with my modified CD player and amps, which sound better than stock. Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
GaryG;158186 Wrote: > one would expect the modified Transporter to be better than a standard > Transporter Why on earth would you expect that? -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
C Crane: http://www.ccrane.com/radios/radio-accessories/acoustic-energy-aego-m-series-music-system.aspx Audio Advisor: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AE26%2D06 These are the only US dealers to carry the Aego-M. You can find them all over the UK for 99 pounds or euros, don't remember which EDIT: looks like C Crane is out of stock until Dec-12. Audio Advisor has them though, same price. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
It may be the wrong forum to say this, but there's every chance that Wadia know a good deal more than Slim Devices and their 861 CD player is better than the TP, however either is modded. So the downside for you could be that you spend a fair bit of cash on a worse source than you already have. Your assumption could be flawed. Of course, let us know if the modded TP toasts the Wadia, I suspect that would be a popular post here :) Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
I'm puzzled, as to the suggestions I'm getting. Let's make the following assumption: The standard Transporter matches the 861se. In which case, one would expect the modified Transporter to be better than a standard Transporter, ergo, the modified Transport is better than the Wadia 861se. End result I'm happy. What's the downside for me given that: 1. I'm not bothered about losing the original warranty. 2. I'm not bothered about the 30 day trial period. 3. The cost of the upgrade (currently unknown) is likeley to be less the the resale value of the Wadia. Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
That's really cool, Tom! tomjtx;158168 Wrote: > > highdudgeon;158137 Wrote: > > Actually, Robert Greene (the reviewer) did this test -- he is an > > accomplished violinist -- with himself as the subject playing between a > > set of Dali Megalines. The result: uncanny. An observer, including > > himself, could barely tell the one from the other. > > > > This just says so much about speakers and speakers that really get it > > right. Having forty grand on hand for your audio budget doesn't hurt, > > either! My short list of truly great speakers with which I have a > > good bit of experience are: Harbeth Monitor 40s, Dali MS5es, Dali > > Megalines, McIntosh XRT 28s, Gradient Revolutions, any Quad ESL, any > > Sound Lab, and one or two others. Their trick is that, with one > > exception (the Harbeth) they are fairly immune to room interaction > > problems, at least when properly positioned (IE, electrostatics need to > > be away from the wall). Dali makes wonderful speakers. > > > > There are many others. I've heard Wilsons and really like them, for > > instance, but I don't have enough sit-down time with them to comment. > > > > > > > > > > I,ve done the same , recording myself and other , then sit betweens the > > speakers and playit's very close with the watts> > -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
See Tom's post. You don't even know what a stock Transporter will do. You do know, on paper, some of the things it does: exceptionally low, world class jitter, first-class DAC, etc. So it is worth at least TRYING for a week before voiding your return policy and warranty, isn't it? As for Wayne, I'm sure he can do all sorts of stuff. Now, do you really think he is going to out-engineer their DAC? Dubious. Maybe some output improvement or whatever -- sure, I'm willing to believe that. But believe this: moving your speakers a few inches will probably make more of a difference. In the end, it is your money, of course, and you can and will do whatever you want. But, if you don't think the Transporter will hold up, what makes you think that Bolder will turn it into a magic, best-in-the-world source? Remember: 30 day return policy. Giving it a week or two try should definitely give you an idea, assuming you are technical in nature, as to whether or not a mod is worth it. Then you can make your decision. If you decide the damn thing is not up to par, then just return it. Nothing to get worked up about, but I just don't get your reasoning. Please, take no offense, but it very much sounds like you're into the status and exotica think just as much as you're into audio reproduction. GaryG;158169 Wrote: > Why? I've already explained the direction I'm going. Do you really think > a standard Transporter is going to compete with a GNSC 'Statement' Wadia > 861se? > > Regards > Gary -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
Impeller;158147 Wrote: > Yes; it seems they're the cheapest Dynaudios, and that would > realistically be our upper limit. So they'd be substantially better > than the Monitor Audio Bronze 2s (£200) with, say, a Rotel RA-05? > > I'm in Braintree, Essex; if anyone knows good places to listen and buy > please let me know. Will probably go to Rayleigh Hi-Fi in Chelmsford me > thinks. Well I don't know the MAs well, so can't really comment on the relative merits. I know Dynaudio and their designers; their speakers are good but you may find the presentation a bit much if you prefer a more laid back sound - they have great dynamics. The Rotel RA-05 would be more than adequate to highlight the difference; the preference is up to you :) Rayleigh should be fine; I see they don't do the Dynaudios though. Challenge them to produce a great sound for your budget - they will be able to! They do Ruarks which are nice - I lived with a pair of Equinoxes (spelling?) for a time, which were so gently authoritative, lovely speaker. Make sure you take some great music along, and have fun! Let us know what you like there. Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
GaryG;158169 Wrote: > Why? > > Regards > Gary I dont mean to answer for HD but IMHO if you 1st live with the stock TP you would then see what improvements the mod makes, and for me , that would be part of the fun. You might also decide the stock TP is so good you dont need to mod it. The Tp sounds so good in my system I' m very happy with it. That doesn't mean to say I wouldn't consider a mod if I heard an improvement. The TP might compare, who knows? The only way to know would be to listen to both and decide, I would think. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] WTB: SB2 wireless
Any colour. Would also be interested in a Bolder modded unit. -- iansr iansr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30110 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
highdudgeon;158137 Wrote: > Actually, Robert Greene (the reviewer) did this test -- he is an > accomplished violinist -- with himself as the subject playing between a > set of Dali Megalines. The result: uncanny. An observer, including > himself, could barely tell the one from the other. > > This just says so much about speakers and speakers that really get it > right. Having forty grand on hand for your audio budget doesn't hurt, > either! My short list of truly great speakers with which I have a > good bit of experience are: Harbeth Monitor 40s, Dali MS5es, Dali > Megalines, McIntosh XRT 28s, Gradient Revolutions, any Quad ESL, any > Sound Lab, and one or two others. Their trick is that, with one > exception (the Harbeth) they are fairly immune to room interaction > problems, at least when properly positioned (IE, electrostatics need to > be away from the wall). Dali makes wonderful speakers. > > There are many others. I've heard Wilsons and really like them, for > instance, but I don't have enough sit-down time with them to comment. > > > > tomjtx;158110 Wrote: > > > > > > I,ve done the same , recording myself and other , then sit betweens > the speakers and playit's very close with the watts -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Why? Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
If Wayne hasn't begun work on it, you should have him send it to your house -- untouched. Evaluate it, live with it for a couple of weeks, compare to other stuff, etc. Then you'll know what direction will work best for you. Just my $.02. GaryG;158150 Wrote: > Can't argue with that. > > Regards > Gary -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
Impeller;158147 Wrote: > Yes; it seems they're the cheapest Dynaudios, and that would > realistically be our upper limit. So they'd be substantially better > than the Monitor Audio Bronze 2s (£200) with, say, a Rotel RA-05? > > I'm in Braintree, Essex; if anyone knows good places to listen and buy > please let me know. Will probably go to Rayleigh Hi-Fi in Chelmsford me > thinks. If you like dynaudio, what about getting the dynaudio bm5 powered monitor, and dispensing with the amp? -- totoro squeezebox 3 -> mccormack dna .5 -> audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
Pale Blue Ego;158065 Wrote: > I think anybody would be very hard-pressed to build a $200 DIY active > system that could beat the Aego-M. hmmm - none of the online retailers seem to have the Aego-M in stock. Did they stop making it? Or, is it just very popular? -- Bob Bressler Bob Bob Bressler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2217 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A photo of your Squeezebox setup (please)
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 Question: Should there be a new forum for photos? - yes - no - maybe Haven't got any pics at present, my house is undergoing refurbishment so I'm staying at a friend's for the time being... Anyway, the system(s): Living room: Arcam AVR250 AV receiver Arcam DV79 DVD Audio player Rega Planar 3 turntable with RB300 tonearm and Ortofon 510 cart Pro-Ject Phono Box II Sony RCD-W100 CD recorder Sony MDS-JB980 minidisc deck Technics RS-BX606 cassette deck Media centre PC Turtle Beach Audiotron Pinnacle ShowCenter Sky+ PVR Philips VR-1000 SVHS VCR Panasonic TX32PM1 32" widescreen CRT TV Mordaunt Short Avant 908 (main), 905C (centre) 2x 903S bipolar (surround) B&W ASW-1000 sub Chord Cobra III for DVD to amp, Cambridge Audio Tape Solution for MD and cassette deck, Cambridge Atlantic for VCR audio, Profigold S-video interconnect (VCR to amp), home-made SCART-RGB component cables. 908 and 905C speakers connected with Chord Rumour 4 cable, rears connected with 105-strand OFC (basically Gale XL-105 but bought on a 100m roll). Also have Isotek power cables on amp and DVD player, all plugged in to a surge and RFI filtered 4 way block (amp, DVD, sub and phono pre-amp are on RFI filtered block). All the rear speaker cables (along with line level feed for Zone 2) are buried in the wall, so high WAF when needed. I'm single at present... but when I'm not I won't have to rearrange everything! Ok, no SB in that setup, but... Zone 2 feed from amp feeds a Kenwood KA-3020SE driving a pair of APart 8" coaxial ceiling speakers in the kitchen. Feed goes through a small relay box driven from "geek port" on SB3 in kitchen, when SB3 switched on the kitchen speakers are supplied by the Squeezebox, when off they're fed from Zone 2 on the Arcam. Not exactly "audiophile", but fed through a 5-band EQ to compensate for room acoustics. Zone 3 (office/dining room) currently runs from SPDIF output on USB sound card (Creative MP3 Blaster). Tend to use WinAmp for this, but no reason why I couldn't use SoftSqueeze if I wanted to sync stuff. Zone 4 (Bathroom) - SB3 sits in custom enclosure in false wall, feeding an old Technics SU-VX500 amplifier. This drives another pair of APart 8" ceiling speakers. Considering using software room correction on this, but currently runs through a 10-band EQ to take out some of the peaks (tiled walls etc). Zone 5 (master bedroom) - Yamaha DSP-AX620 amp, Toshiba SD-530 DVD-Audio player, Sony RDR-HXD710 DVD/HD recorder with Freeview, Sky+, Grundig 32" widescreen TV, Audiotron, Showcenter, Gale 4/Centre 2/2i speakers, Paradigm PS-1000 subwoofer. Zone 6 (spare bedroom) - haven't decided yet, but all the wiring's in for multiroom. Zone 7 (box room) - same as zone 6. Zone 8 (Garden) - slaved from zone 3 at present, but may well buy another SB3 and install in utility room. 2 pairs of weatherproof "rock effect" speakers (one set wired for L-R difference signal for surround effect) running from an old Sony mini system with 6 band EQ (some heavy EQ needed to get speakers to sound decent). Will post pics as soon as the building work gets completed in various rooms! -- Squirrel Squirrel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5785 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
highdudgeon;158106 Wrote: > One teensy problem: by sending it off to be modded (for what?) before > you even bothered listening to it you have voided the warranty and > scrapped the 30 home trial. Wouldn't it have made more sense to > receive it at home, check it out, and then decide to 1) keep it as is, > 2) mod it, or 3) send it back? Sounds like jumping the audiophile gun. Can't argue with that. Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
adamslim;158100 Wrote: > I have always liked the small Dynaudios - I think their Audience 42 is > about £400 for the pair (not sure where you are located - should have > asked that!). Yes; it seems they're the cheapest Dynaudios, and that would realistically be our upper limit. So they'd be substantially better than the Monitor Audio Bronze 2s (£200) with, say, a Rotel RA-05? I'm in Braintree, Essex; if anyone knows good places to listen and buy please let me know. Thanks. -- Impeller Impeller's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8396 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Recommended inexpensive Linear PSU Wallwart for SB3?
stamsyl wrote: I saw it on Ebay. (item # 180054037839) It's mislabeled on Ebay. Should be a WM220-1 (see pic). This looks a lot like one of those listed in the chart here: http://www.elpac.com/products/commercial/external-dual/documents/wm071-1950.pdf It doesn't say 'Linear', but does refer to it as a 'regulated' power supply. And by the 4lb. bulk of it, I'd guess it was a linear. Search the net or eBay for "WM220-1" and find one. --rt ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Actually, Robert Greene (the reviewer) did this test -- he is an accomplished violinist -- with himself as the subject playing between a set of Dali Megalines. The result: uncanny. An observer, including himself, could barely tell the one from the other. This just says so much about speakers and speakers that really get it right. Having forty grand on hand for your audio budget doesn't hurt, either! My short list of truly great speakers with which I have a good bit of experience are: Harbeth Monitor 40s, Dali MS5es, Dali Megalines, McIntosh XRT 28s, Gradient Revolutions, any Quad ESL, any Sound Lab, and one or two others. Their trick is that, with one exception (the Harbeth) they are fairly immune to room interaction problems, at least when properly positioned (IE, electrostatics need to be away from the wall). Dali makes wonderful speakers. There are many others. I've heard Wilsons and really like them, for instance, but I don't have enough sit-down time with them to comment. tomjtx;158110 Wrote: > > highdudgeon;158105 Wrote: > > Sounds reasonable to me. Still, though, being a guitarist like yourself > > (and violinist), I think I'm perhaps more aware of some fine points of > > instrument reproduction -- as opposed to audiophile stuff -- AND the > > slight business of mic set up, etc., than others. I couldn't say the > > same for the piano, even though my wife is an excellent pianist and we > > have an oft-played baby grand in the living room. Good point, though. > > Everything is a matter of practice. > > > > I do think the the one sine qua non is just having experience of live > > music. If only for your soul, right? > > > > > > > > I agree. I am probably better at judging the sound quality of classical > > guitar recordings than a non classical guitarist. There are some > > advantages:eg. hearing that very performer live on the same instrument( > > a few times in my living room) > > > > Once I had a guitarist sit between my speakers and play and then switch > > to his CD playing the same piece and guitar.that was > > fun.live was better... > > until I put the bybees in:-)> > -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
tomjtx;157729 Wrote: > It's a flattering review. But it's too bad they didn't have some good > files to use. > The TP sounds different in my system when I spin a CD on my CDT>TP. > Interestingly ,it sounds more laid back, a bit less detail and rythymic > punch. > > I could never characterize the TP as laid back when I stream ALAC or > AIff from the hard drive. > It would be interesting to see what these guys think when they do that. > I think they would be even more impressed. Exactly, I read the head-fi review too. Transporters value is in its use as a source, not as a DAC. It can be used as a DAC, but when it is streaming music is when it has the highest performance. Transports seem to have intrinsic jitter, which gets transferred (even increased) via the digital connection to the DAC. I dont think the Transporter has any special jitter reduction built in when in use as a DAC. So if even as a DAC it is close to or resolves better than a Wadia, it will surely beat it when it is streaming. Re: comparisons with other players - many differences can arise in the output stage implementations. With transporter or SB3 one should look for the effects of jitter. Reduced jitter means extremely relaxed sound. The Transporter and the competing player should be compared with the sounds of a common analog setup. Whichever one is closer to the LP, should win (atleast in my books :-) ). -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Inguz DRC - odd results
Skunk;158126 Wrote: > The US122L isn't resampling to 48 kHz is it? > > The replacement to the US-122 is the US-144, which is what makes me > wonder. > > The Mackie Spike looks interesting to me, but I"ll probably get a 122L > if it does do 44.1. No - I have set the us122L to sample at 44.1KHz. -- rbl rbl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4517 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29927 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Inguz DRC - odd results
The US122L isn't resampling to 48 kHz is it? The replacement to the US-122 is the US-144, which is what makes me wonder. The Mackie Spike looks interesting to me, but I"ll probably get a 122L if it does do 44.1. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29927 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 + Lavry DA10 set up questions
highdudgeon;157923 Wrote: > Why, for crying out load? Do you think there is some advantage in doing > so? There isn't. Pick up the phone and talk to Dan Lavry -- he takes > calls and is very helpful. Just run the coax to coax and call it good. > You're talking about a foot and a half or three feet, tops, of cable. > Relax. You're making this way too complicated. Seconded. If you can reliably call the difference on an A-B test on the coax-coax vs coax-AES then I'll eat my SB3 :) Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29831 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Inguz DRC - odd results
inguz;157944 Wrote: > I'd be very interested to get a copy of your sweep recordings to > analyze. Can you email them (hpyle at cabezal dot com), or up by ftp? > ftp.inguzaudio.com > user: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > pass: inguz > Thanks! I just emailed the DRC, TXT and WAV files (in flac format) to you (couldn't get the FTP to work). Hopefully you should have them. Once again many thanks for your help. -- rbl rbl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4517 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29927 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
cliveb;157992 Wrote: > I seem to recall that some years back it was noted that many > professional (classical) musicians in fact owned pretty low-end stereo > systems, and seemed perfectly happy with them. The hypothesis was that > these people's training meant that they could mentally "fill in" the > missing bits. > > > We often hear this argument about live music, but I'm beginning to > doubt it, at least as far as rock music is concerned (which is my > poison of choice). Simple fact of the matter is that the actual sound > in a typical rock concert is dreadful. I mean really, really awful. I > certainly don't want to replicate that in my living room. Even at my > favourite venue (The Stables at Milton Keynes, which is *much* better > than most), the sound is still not really that good. (Of course, live > classical or acoustic jazz may very well be a different matter. It's > been years since I attended either). > > I feel the purpose of an audio system is to create an enjoyable musical > experience at home. The chances of having a similar experience to what > you get at a live concert seems vanishingly small to me. That doesn't > mean that it can't be just as emotionally rewarding - just in a > different way. Do you really think so? Personally, I want my set up to reproduce the exact acoustic of a Deep Purple concert I went to in 1972 in Trentham Gardens, Staffordshire. I've used a PC based digital correction system to apply reverb as similar as possible to an outdoor ambience and to knock off anything over about 10kHz, and have additionally programmed it to produce random bursts of simulated wild howlround. Then I've added a couple of 18 inch drivers salvaged from a Stazi interrogation centre, and a REL Strata V, then wrapped the whole speaker array in a layer of acoustically treated sponge and the sub woofers in an additional blanket, (adding 22.73dB of gain to compensate, of course). That's in addition to the £300 a metre cryogenically treated cables and £1000 upgraded power cables, of course, and the bass traps and other acoustic treatment, there just to help the digital stuff. Well, wow, is all I can say. I mean, I could be 400 yards from the stage. Brilliant. Mind you, the Dowland sounds bloody awful. What? Did I say something wrong? -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
highdudgeon;158105 Wrote: > Sounds reasonable to me. Still, though, being a guitarist like yourself > (and violinist), I think I'm perhaps more aware of some fine points of > instrument reproduction -- as opposed to audiophile stuff -- AND the > slight business of mic set up, etc., than others. I couldn't say the > same for the piano, even though my wife is an excellent pianist and we > have an oft-played baby grand in the living room. Good point, though. > Everything is a matter of practice. > > I do think the the one sine qua non is just having experience of live > music. If only for your soul, right? > > > tomjtx;158098 Wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I am probably better at judging the sound quality of > classical guitar recordings than a non classical guitarist. There are > some advantages:eg. hearing that very performer live on the same > instrument( a few times in my living room) > > Once I had a guitarist sit between my speakers and play and then > switch to his CD playing the same piece and guitar.that was > fun.live was better... > until I put the bybees in:-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
One teensy problem: by sending it off to be modded (for what?) before you even bothered listening to it you have voided the warranty and scrapped the 30 home trial. Wouldn't it have made more sense to receive it at home, check it out, and then decide to 1) keep it as is, 2) mod it, or 3) send it back? Sounds like jumping the audiophile gun. GaryG;157903 Wrote: > I ordered it shortly after the pre-order started, but hedged my bets on > the marketing being over enthusiastic and had it shipped directly to > Bolder Cables for Wayne to modify it. > > Now to avoid getting jumped on by my fellow members my expectations are > high, I want to replace my GNSC 'Statement' Wadia 861se with the > Transporter as I have ripped my CD collection and don't envision using > a CD player. At present I use one of Patrick Dixon's SB+ squeezeboxes > feeding the DAC section of the 861se and it's very good but the SB+ > lacks a digital input which I need for my AV processor. > > As an aside, I'll never know for sure as I never got to hear the > standard Transporter but from looking at the circuit topology of the > Transporter and SB+ my 'gut' feeling is that the SB+ has the better > performance of the two. > > Regards > Gary -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Sounds reasonable to me. Still, though, being a guitarist like yourself (and violinist), I think I'm perhaps more aware of some fine points of instrument reproduction -- as opposed to audiophile stuff -- AND the slight business of mic set up, etc., than others. I couldn't say the same for the piano, even though my wife is an excellent pianist and we have an oft-played baby grand in the living room. Good point, though. Everything is a matter of practice. I do think the the one sine qua non is just having experience of live music. If only for your soul, right? tomjtx;158098 Wrote: > > cliveb;157992 Wrote: > > I seem to recall that some years back it was noted that many > > professional (classical) musicians in fact owned pretty low-end stereo > > systems, and seemed perfectly happy with them. The hypothesis was that > > these people's training meant that they could mentally "fill in" the > > missing bits. > > > > > > As a classical musician, I resemble that remark:-) > > > > I completely agree. This was 1st pointed out to me by a hi-end dealer > > in Seattle in the 70's > > > > I spent a summer there doing a lot of "audiophile" ear training so that > > I didn't fill in the parts. > > He was the 1st to teach me about soundstaging, imaging etc. > > > > Anyone can train their ear if they work at it and a bit of help from > > someone knowledgable goes a long way. > > Once the brain knows what to listen for it is a lot easier to hear > > it.Musicians might have a slight INITIAL advantage in audio ear > > training since they are already used to ear training > > eg. training the mind / ear connection, but I think that advantage is > > leveled out after a short time if one works at it.> > -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 + Lavry DA10 set up questions
Thanks Tobi. I appreciate not overlooking the obvious because that is probably what I did. When I go to navigate to settings on the squeezebox, i get the following list of options: 1. Alarm Clock 2. Crossfade 3. Information 4. Repeat 5. Screensaver 6. Shuffle 7. Song Title Format 8. Text Size 9. Volume 10. Volume Information I am using slimserver 6.2.2. I had "drop" issues with more recent versions of slimserver, so went backwards a bit. I navigate around the various setting options and have not located any output options. Am I missing something? I have been working with a guy at Lavry named Brad. He has been very helpful and NICE. -- tjw tjw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29831 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
Well I'd agree that a bookshelf speaker would make sense in that size/layout room. I have always liked the small Dynaudios - I think their Audience 42 is about £400 for the pair (not sure where you are located - should have asked that!). I use a pair of Harbeth HL-P3ES speakers in my kitchen system and they are gorgeous beyond belief, but cost about £900. These are some of the best small monitors I have ever heard (even better than LS3/5as, to start a flame war!). They aren't party speakers though - their sensitivity and power handling is not as high as many. The Rotel amps are nice too, as has already been mentioned, although I would be looking at the RA-04 to RA-06 range, given your budget. Arcam are always recommended too. Unfortunately I think your budget is a bit too small for a valve amp unless you go the Chinese route. Class D amps are the current 'in' thing, although I don't know many that well. Doubtless others will come in with some ideas too :) Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
cliveb;157992 Wrote: > I seem to recall that some years back it was noted that many > professional (classical) musicians in fact owned pretty low-end stereo > systems, and seemed perfectly happy with them. The hypothesis was that > these people's training meant that they could mentally "fill in" the > missing bits. > > > As a classical musician, I resemble that remark:-) > > I completely agree. This was 1st pointed out to me by a hi-end dealer > in Seattle in the 70's > > I spent a summer there doing a lot of "audiophile" ear training so that > I didn't fill in the parts. > He was the 1st to teach me about soundstaging, imaging etc. > > Anyone can train their ear if they work at it and a bit of help from > someone knowledgable goes a long way. > Once the brain knows what to listen for it is a lot easier to hear > it.Musicians might have a slight INITIAL advantage in audio ear > training since they are already used to ear training > eg. training the mind / ear connection, but I think that advantage is > leveled out after a short time if one works at it. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Completely agree. cliveb;157992 Wrote: > I seem to recall that some years back it was noted that many > professional (classical) musicians in fact owned pretty low-end stereo > systems, and seemed perfectly happy with them. The hypothesis was that > these people's training meant that they could mentally "fill in" the > missing bits. > > > We often hear this argument about live music, but I'm beginning to > doubt it, at least as far as rock music is concerned (which is my > poison of choice). Simple fact of the matter is that the actual sound > in a typical rock concert is dreadful. I mean really, really awful. I > certainly don't want to replicate that in my living room. Even at my > favourite venue (The Stables at Milton Keynes, which is *much* better > than most), the sound is still not really that good. (Of course, live > classical or acoustic jazz may very well be a different matter. It's > been years since I attended either). > > I feel the purpose of an audio system is to create an enjoyable musical > experience at home. The chances of having a similar experience to what > you get at a live concert seems vanishingly small to me. That doesn't > mean that it can't be just as emotionally rewarding - just in a > different way. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
ModelCitizen;158068 Wrote: > Yup, I'll second that. > MC Are you commenting on your similar traits or just agreeing with me that I'm a dick? :-) -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 -getting better with battery power
JohnSwenson;158072 Wrote: > I have had some experience with the little wall wart that comes with the > SB3. As many of you know I have modified my SB3 to take its "I2S" (which > is really left justified) data signals into my DAC and feed the DAC's > clock into the SB3. The other day I had it out on the bench trying out > some changes to the output stage and was seeing all kinds of RF on the > output stage. > > After a lot of debugging it turned out to be the wall wart that came > with the SB3. I didn't bother to take the linear supply out to the > garrage so just used the wall-wart. It was radiating large amounts of > RF every where. Even with the SB3 disconnected from the DAC It still > had the same amount of RF in the DAC. It also stayed the same with the > SB3 disconnected from the supply. With the wall-wart unplugged the RF > goes away. With the SB3 connected to the linear supply there is a very > tiny amount of RF in the DAC but WAY less. I think this is coming from > the unshielded SB3. > > As far as I can tell that supply is just spraying RF all over the > place. Its a bit interesting because it comes in bursts. It looks like > the RF is happening when the supply is conducting from the wall voltage > so we get tone bursts. Under load the bursts get longer (the supply is > conducting over a longer period of the AC cycle) but the intensity of > the RF is the same. > > So there is a pretty high probability that this RF is getting picked up > by other components in a system whach may be causing significant > differences in sound. > > This can also help explain to some degree why ome peoples systems have > a larger change when changing supplies than others. It would depend > very much on how the components and wiring respond to RF. Some will do > a better job of rejecting the RF than others. > > When I first got an SB3 I had to switch to shielded interconects, it > was unlistenable with the unshielded ones I had been using. At the time > I thought it was the SB3 itself that was radiating the RF, now I realize > it was the wall-wart that was doing the damage. > > One good thing that the experience produced is that I "hardened" my DAC > significantly to outside RF, even with the wall-wart the amount of RF in > the DAC is a lot less than it used to be. Just doing that has > significantly improved the sound of my system. > > John S. Thanks for that contribution. This seems like an explanation that could go a long way to resolving the power supply controversies. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29633 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
adamslim;158056 Wrote: > For more detailed advice, why not let us know: Thanks Adam - what a helpful place this is. :) adamslim;158056 Wrote: > - What kind of music you like. I started to type out a list, but it's everything (barring mindless pop drivel). Electronic, rock, classical... a bit of everything. I like solid bass, but appreciate detail and clarity as well. We'd also like to use it for films, but quality of music is the priority; surround sound and house-shaking bass are not important. adamslim;158056 Wrote: > - How big the room is and what constraints you have on speaker placement > and size (i.e. wife, kids, etc!) Have just gone round the front room with a tape measure: [image: http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7052/frontroomak3.jpg] I was thinking bookshelf speakers on stands. Neither door can be blocked. The TV is currently sat on the concrete block (lined area top right) - I realise this is far from ideal for speaker placement, so maybe we should forget that for now and wait until we have a flatscreen on a wall or a projector. adamslim;158056 Wrote: > - Whether you are sure you want to buy new, or willing to consider > second-hand. New. I don't think I want the hassle of worrying about how equipment has been treated. adamslim;158056 Wrote: > - What systems really blew you away at the hi-fi show. This is quite > important - some systems are quite 'in-your-face', while some are much > more laid back. The ones that you felt were right will guide your > purchases even if you are only spending a tenth as much as their value. The only demonstrations that were set up properly for listening that I can remember liking were Wilson benesch's Square series and Quad's whopping great big speakers (ESL 2905 I think). I did listen to a pair of what looked like the iQ5 from KEF, but they didn't stand out as being special, probably mainly because of the flatness of the music that was played. adamslim;158056 Wrote: > - What is your budget, and do you see this as step one on an upgrade > path, or do you want to live with this for at least, say, five years? > This could affect whether you get a balanced system now, or splurge out > on, say, the speakers. I don't have a budget set in stone - my brother and I are planning to share the cost by buying certain components each. However, we're not rolling in it; hence the budget nature of our initial ideas. But if spending a little more now will make a significant difference then I'd like to do it. I don't want to be continually swapping stuff around, and would like four or five years of service out of the system. Many thanks for your help. :) -- Impeller Impeller's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8396 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 -getting better with battery power
I have had some experience with the little wall wart that comes with the SB3. As many of you know I have modified my SB3 to take its "I2S" (which is really left justified) data signals into my DAC and feed the DAC's clock into the SB3. The other day I had it out on the bench trying out some changes to the output stage and was seeing all kinds of RF on the output stage. After a lot of debugging it turned out to be the wall wart that came with the SB3. I didn't bother to take the linear supply out to the garrage so just used the wall-wart. It was radiating large amounts of RF every where. Even with the SB3 disconnected from the DAC It still had the same amount of RF in the DAC. It also stayed the same with the SB3 disconnected from the supply. With the wall-wart unplugged the RF goes away. With the SB3 connected to the linear supply there is a very tiny amount of RF in the DAC but WAY less. I think this is coming from the unshielded SB3. As far as I can tell that supply is just spraying RF all over the place. Its a bit interesting because it comes in bursts. It looks like the RF is happening when the supply is conducting from the wall voltage so we get tone bursts. Under load the bursts get longer (the supply is conducting over a longer period of the AC cycle) but the intensity of the RF is the same. So there is a pretty high probability that this RF is getting picked up by other components in a system whach may be causing significant differences in sound. This can also help explain to some degree why ome peoples systems have a larger change when changing supplies than others. It would depend very much on how the components and wiring respond to RF. Some will do a better job of rejecting the RF than others. When I first got an SB3 I had to switch to shielded interconects, it was unlistenable with the unshielded ones I had been using. At the time I thought it was the SB3 itself that was radiating the RF, now I realize it was the wall-wart that was doing the damage. One good thing that the experience produced is that I "hardened" my DAC significantly to outside RF, even with the wall-wart the amount of RF in the DAC is a lot less than it used to be. Just doing that has significantly improved the sound of my system. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29633 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Questions on my setup
I had the same set up. For best quality output I used this set up: Mute SB3 analog outputs (0), set SB3 digital output as constant (i.e. without any volume control), leave Benchmark such that that the volume knob is disabled (setting on back I think). Then use the amp volume to set listening levels. However, my pre-amp had a remote... I wouldn't have had this setup if I had to get up off the floor to change the volume! I assume you have an integrated amp? I had a separate power and pre-amp and found that the Benchmark Dac pre-amp ran my power amp very nicely indeed... but I left the pre-amp in the system so I could use the remote to change the volume. MC -- ModelCitizen Now what? Transporter > Naim NAP 250 > PMC OB1s. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30098 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
jonheal;158013 Wrote: > > Here are some of my annoying traits: > - I interrupt people when they're talking > - I don't listen well > - I often don't give people the benefit of the doubt > - I'm often negative > - I'm selfish Yup, I'll second that. MC -- ModelCitizen Now what? Transporter > Naim NAP 250 > PMC OB1s. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
adamslim;158059 Wrote: > > > Oh and in terms of power output, the T-amp only has about 5W that is > useable (well, listenable), and going active may not make a huge > difference. With 91dB/W, it'll be fine for a second system but not > loud, I think. > > HTH > > Adam Hypex ( http://www.hypex.nl/ ) have some powerful class D amps - I would think that using one UcD180 unit per channel should suffice for most of us! Used with the TR100A transformer and UcD supply ST will give about 2x85W (One transformer/supply drives both channels). If that's not enough use a transformer/supply for each channel - Or go for the UcD700 module ;) I haven't heard these modules myself, but I know that Hypex are renovned for their subwoofer amps. -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
I think anybody would be very hard-pressed to build a $200 DIY active system that could beat the Aego-M. The Aego had something like a million-dollar R&D effort resulting in a new pear-shaped driver design and zinc-alloy cabinets that are tiny and sonically inert. The drive units are direct-driven from the specially-EQed amps; no conventional crossover. All of these things contribute directly to the sound quality, and mass production has gotten the price down to $200 from the original $600. Slapping some drivers in a wooden cabinet with Tripath amps isn't going to compare. The parts list will be over $200 before you even start to design or build. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
Pale Blue Ego;157999 Wrote: > Then you swing too far in the other direction with a home-built $500 > system that won't sound any better than many $200 - $350 active systems > already available. > (snip) > The Swan M-200 active monitors are rated down to 55Hz and can be found > at newegg.com for $189 > (snip) > If you like to tinker, go ahead and build your own! But don't expect > them to outperform the excellent active speakers available > commercially. I disagree with this; I would suspect that you should be easily able to outperform purchased budget equipment with DIY actives. The drive units in a $200 active system are unlikely to cost more than about $20, and I imagine that's generous. The amps are unlikely to be as good as T-amps either. The caveat that I would have is that speaker design is a pretty arcane art, and a lot of the cost of a commercial design is in the experimentation they have done. What works on paper may not sound great in reality. I would be tempted to look for complete kit designs, and then get the bare minimum you need to make your actives. Oh and in terms of power output, the T-amp only has about 5W that is useable (well, listenable), and going active may not make a huge difference. With 91dB/W, it'll be fine for a second system but not loud, I think. HTH Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: HiFi System needed to show difference: SB3, TP
For more detailed advice, why not let us know: - What kind of music you like. If you have lots of parties with drum and bass, you need a different system to a folk music lover. Most systems, though, should be good for most kinds of music. Do you like to play music really loud? - How big the room is and what constraints you have on speaker placement and size (i.e. wife, kids, etc!) - Whether you are sure you want to buy new, or willing to consider second-hand. - What systems really blew you away at the hi-fi show. This is quite important - some systems are quite 'in-your-face', while some are much more laid back. The ones that you felt were right will guide your purchases even if you are only spending a tenth as much as their value. - What is your budget, and do you see this as step one on an upgrade path, or do you want to live with this for at least, say, five years? This could affect whether you get a balanced system now, or splurge out on, say, the speakers. Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30074 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Questions on my setup
I just got SB3 and am using it in my living room stereo system with a Benchmark DAC1 and Ayre AX7e integrated amp. All three of these devices have volume controls and from reading in this forum I'm confused as to whether I MUTE the SB3 digital volume or turn it all the way UP to 100. Right now I have it muted and the Benchmark volume knob turned all the way up, and I control volume with my Ayre amp. Is there a better way for best sound? I also just bought an upgraded power supply from a forum member here for the SB3--the Mauimods unit. I'm going for great sound out of my SB3 so thought I'd ask the experts... -- sc53 sc53's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8690 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30098 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] WTB: SB2 wireless black
Please pm me if you've got a spare. -- Kyle Kyle's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2541 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30096 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
fun project. i'm doing something similar, but i'm building these into the speaker boxes... http://www.amphony.com/products/l1550.htm the amps sound good and have decent range. i'll have the dc adaptor inside of the box as well with a standard ac plug mounted on the back. rock. -- gobikey gobikey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3804 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
P Floding;158002 Wrote: > Unlike you I sure as hell don't have time to read all postings here. I > read the initial one, and answered that. I hope that explains things > for you? I don't think this forum works exactly because you and others > demand everyone to be "in tune". So when you are all a happy, jolly > little mob, where you have all figured out who is boss over whom, you > get all upset when someone ignores your "understanding" or isn't fully > "in tune" (wrong kind of humor, wrong spelling, stupid ideas -you name > it). > > And please stop that "i think people should be able to say what they > think, but..". It's so pathetic. It's interesting that you keep putting me in the same camp as the objectivists, P. That would be an incorrect categorization. I followed your tweaks with interest, not ridicule or criticism on the tact thread. I have only ridiculed your call for censorship. BTW I misspell often and english is my 1st language. It's easy to make a mistake when your in a hurry. I must have missed the post where someone criticized your spelling. But dont you think your being a bit thin skinned? After all, people should be able to say what they think, dont you agree? -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: FS: Bolder modded Elpac
or make a reasonable offer on either. E- -- ecruz ecruz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4048 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30083 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
Really folks, I think several of you just need to let go. Clearly, no one's going to get the "last word" in, and at this point, all you're doing is pouring salt into wounds and contributing to the build up of your own stomach acid. We're all imperfect creatures. We all have quirks and annoying traits. And generally, those traites we find most annoying in others are those that we ourselves possess. Why don't we draw a line in the sand and move forward on a positive note. Frankly, if everyone turned the other cheek a little more often instead of sniping back, the world would be a hell of a lot more pleasant to live in. -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: There must be a better way for this forum to operate.
tomjtx;157970 Wrote: > maybe P. will leave for a long time. I kinda hate to say that, I really > think all should be able to say what they want but his last post seems > so anachronistic,really. > I mean, it seems most everyone has settled down, some light hearted > humor, a serious proposal about getting to know each others systems and > philosophies , no flames, etc. > > What's to complain about? Unlike you I sure as hell don't have time to read all postings here. I read the initial one, and answered that. I hope that explains things for you? I don't think this forum works exactly because you and others demand everyone to be "in tune". So when you are all a happy, jolly little mob, where you have all figured out who is boss over whom, you get all upset when someone ignores your "understanding" or isn't fully "in tune" (wrong kind of humor, wrong spelling, stupid ideas -you name it). And please stop that "i think people should be able to say what they think, but..". It's so pathetic. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30039 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Mini SB3 system idea
Seems like a lot of trouble and expense for a speaker system that only goes down to 65Hz. I don't understand why you're auditioning $25 junk speakers in the first place - that's too low-priced to expect any type of quality. Then you swing too far in the other direction with a home-built $500 system that won't sound any better than many $200 - $350 active systems already available. If you want cheap computer speakers that actually sound decent, look for a set of Boston Acoustics BA745 - you can find them on eBay for less than $50. It has a sub, though. A great-sounding sub/sat system is the Acoustic Energy Aego-M, $200 new. Then there are larger self-powered systems that don't require a sub, like the Audioengine 5, $349 and rated to 50Hz: http://www.audioengineusa.com/news.htm The Swan M-200 active monitors are rated down to 55Hz and can be found at newegg.com for $189 There are also some good nearfield monitors from companies like Mackie and Edirol. If you like to tinker, go ahead and build your own! But don't expect them to outperform the excellent active speakers available commercially. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30087 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Inguz DRC - odd results
more than happy to - I'll email them over when i get home this evening (I am in London). I will send the DRC files that I have used too ... -- rbl rbl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4517 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29927 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
highdudgeon;157847 Wrote: > If you get trained musicians to do it, specifically, it would get very > interesting. Why? Because these are people with far more ear training > than any non-musician, and that includes audiophiles I seem to recall that some years back it was noted that many professional (classical) musicians in fact owned pretty low-end stereo systems, and seemed perfectly happy with them. The hypothesis was that these people's training meant that they could mentally "fill in" the missing bits. highdudgeon;157847 Wrote: > There is this, too: audio systems are ultimately about re-producing a > live (or produced) music experience. We often hear this argument about live music, but I'm beginning to doubt it, at least as far as rock music is concerned (which is my poison of choice). Simple fact of the matter is that the actual sound in a typical rock concert is dreadful. I mean really, really awful. I certainly don't want to replicate that in my living room. Even at my favourite venue (The Stables at Milton Keynes, which is *much* better than most), the sound is still not really that good. (Of course, live classical or acoustic jazz may very well be a different matter. It's been years since I attended either). I feel the purpose of an audio system is to create an enjoyable musical experience at home. The chances of having a similar experience to what you get at a live concert seems vanishingly small to me. That doesn't mean that it can't be just as emotionally rewarding - just in a different way. -- cliveb Performers -> dozens of mixers and effects -> clipped/hypercompressed mastering -> you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A photo of your Squeezebox setup (please)
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 Question: Should there be a new forum for photos? - yes - no - maybe Cleve;157134 Wrote: > The current version of my Home Theatre/Audio system. From top to > bottom > SB3 > McIntosh Mc2205 > McIntosh MX-132 > McIntosh MC7100 > Belkin PURE AV power center > McIntosh MAC4100 > Oppo DVD player > Denon DRM-3 cassette deck > Speakers - left, center, and right - Klipsch Epic CF-4s > Not shown in the photo - Klipsch Epic CF-3s - Left and right surround. You forgot to mention the fish. Used for sound dampening qualities no doubt. Are they Pike (or Salmon?)? MC -- ModelCitizen Now what? Transporter > Naim NAP 250 > PMC OB1s. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter review
Mark Lanctot;157893 Wrote: > Well yeah, but that's kind of a marketing statement. They couldn't > possibly have compared it to every single CD player on the market (or > ever made, for that matter). And I'm sure those $10K CD transports > I've heard about have something to them. If they didn't beat a device > costing 1/5 as much (which includes a high-end DAC, mind you) they'd > have some explaining to do. > > It's also all relative, of course. It's not like that reviewer's > opinion is the last word on the Denon or the Transporter for that > matter. > > In fact being compared favourably against a player costing nearly twice > as much is a high compliment. I think Mark has it right. When this happens to me, I know most of my bad feelings are coming from the sinking realization that I got fooled by marketing hype. Maybe its less about the transporter and more about kicking yourself. I mean by any objective measure, the TP is still shaping up as a great purchase! Half the price of a Denon, lot more capability, more cache, lots prettier to look at, maybe better built Ya done good man! And who knows, with a bit of educated, systemic-type tweaking, it might be in Meitner territory. -- atkinsonrr Transporter, Quicksilver V4 Monos, Vandersteen Model 5A speakers. SB3, Quad Tube Pre-Amp, Tube Monos, Quad ESLs. Homemade Tripath Digital amps, Carver ALS (original) Speakers with Outboard Crossovers. atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29450 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Wanted to Buy: Modded PS for SB3
Thought I might just throw out a suggestion here. A while ago, I wanted to try a super duper tweako power supply on my CD Burner, just for grins. I was gonna build one, but then had a thought. Went to Ebay and found power supplies on sale that were surplussed from laboratories. I took a flyer and bought one. I think it cost me about $40 incl shipping. It arrived, very impressive, weighing about 25-30lbs, a nice meter, rack mountable, only a couple small dings. If I remember right, it had "Bell Labs" and a serial # scratched into the bottom plate. I never did an A-B but it worked great and I know I just felt a little better knowing it had this huge reserve headroom in terms of amperage draw. When I get back to Montana I hope to use it on my SB-3. If I remember I'll attempt an A-B test and let you all know. -- atkinsonrr Transporter, Quicksilver V4 Monos, Vandersteen Model 5A speakers. SB3, Quad Tube Pre-Amp, Tube Monos, Quad ESLs. Homemade Tripath Digital amps, Carver ALS (original) Speakers with Outboard Crossovers. atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29280 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
