Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
The Stereovox cable is the other way around. It is terminated with true 75 ohm BNC connectors with optional lock-in RCA adapters. It was designed by the same engineer that devised the famed Illuminati D60 cable. -- crooner Customized dual chassis "Super Squeezebox" EAD DSP-7000 MKIII DAC with HDCD VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Pat Farrell;199012 Wrote: > mswlogo wrote: > > Adding BNC to RCA adapters can only make it worse. > > It would probably work fine but you're defeating the purpose of > having > > the BNC connectors in the first place. > > I don't think anyone would use two RCA to BNC connectors on a single > cable. Typically you use one when you have something like a SqueezeBox > > that has RCA only, and something like a Benchmark DAC-1, which has BNC > > only (for coax). So without soldering up custom cables, you end up with > > one adaptor, using a RCA-to-RCA cable, and putting one RCA-to-BNC on > the > end into your Benchmark. > > > > -- > Pat > http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html I think Anne a few posts back was asking such a quaestion thinking that a "BNC" cable was possibly still a better option using 2 BNC adapters that were included. Companies do sell such things as she showed in the link she provided. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
mswlogo wrote: > Adding BNC to RCA adapters can only make it worse. > It would probably work fine but you're defeating the purpose of having > the BNC connectors in the first place. I don't think anyone would use two RCA to BNC connectors on a single cable. Typically you use one when you have something like a SqueezeBox that has RCA only, and something like a Benchmark DAC-1, which has BNC only (for coax). So without soldering up custom cables, you end up with one adaptor, using a RCA-to-RCA cable, and putting one RCA-to-BNC on the end into your Benchmark. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Pat Farrell;198969 Wrote: > Anne wrote: > > I have ordered the dac upgrade for my Bryston, it has 2 Toslink and > 2 > > idpf (or whatever) inputs. > > Thought I should go for this digital cable : > > http://www.deko.no/produkter_studio.htm#XV2 > > comes with bnc connectors but bnc to rca adapters are included > > Maybe just a cheap video composite cabel will do just as good ? > > Is Toslink better maybe ? > > There is no such thing as a digital cable. All cables send voltages > down > the wire. When you send a digital signal down a wire, the receiving end > > senses just the major transitions. Analog signals are sensed high, low, > > and in between. > > Technically, you can not have a proper 75 ohm connector using RCA. But > > for 99% of the uses, no one can tell any difference. Nearly all > professional digital connections are BNC. Nearly all amateur/consumer > gear uses RCA. > > Toslink is not better in theory, but it does avoid electrical > connections, so it can be more immune to ground loops. > In theory, toslink is worse than BNC 75 ohm connections, > but I never could tell a difference. > > Good quality 75 ohm video cable should work fine. > > What do you mean, just as good? This is an audiophiles list, we obscess > > over everything. > > > -- > Pat > http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html Adding BNC to RCA adapters can only make it worse. It would probably work fine but you're defeating the purpose of having the BNC connectors in the first place. You might as well skip the BNC all together and connect the RCA plug directly to the correct 75ohm cable. That is, just get a 75 Ohm RCA to RCA Video Cable. That is, unless your willing to change the connectors to BNC on the SB3 and the Amp. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Please listen to this talk by Bruce Schneier. He explains the basics of DRM very well. http://www.ima.umn.edu/multimedia/winter/m6.html "Bits are designed to be copied, DRM can't work" http://www.ima.umn.edu/recordings/Public_Lecture/2000-2001/feb_12_01/schneier-128.mp3 I should go dig up the original wav of that talk and re-encode it as ogg. :) -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
You want to know what would boost music sales? Record companies getting into the music business instead of the plastic disc business. I would like to be able to buy full catalogs by particular artists. I'd like that to include lyrics, album and related art work, guitar tabs/sheet music, etc., all selectable al la carte. Imagine ordering the entire Jimi Hendrix catalog with all the related goodies, lossless encoded, fully tagged, organized, etc., for $100. Or maybe John Coltrane, or Miles Davis, John Lee Hooker, Eric Clapton? Or maybe the entire Alligator, Chess, Motown Records catalogs? It might be worth putting up with DRM for something like that. Some sort of hardware standard would be helpful- like having flac become the universal lossless encoding standard so files will play everywhere. Record companies have the $ to push that if they want. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Pat Farrell;198969 Wrote: > > There is no such thing as a digital cable. All cables send voltages > down > the wire. When you send a digital signal down a wire, the receiving end > > senses just the major transitions. Analog signals are sensed high, low, > > and in between. > In fairness, the requirements for sending an S/PDIF signal are rather different than for an analogue audio signal. As I've learned on this forum, you have to remember that even GHz frequency components might be relevant in S/PDIF transmission (as filtering them will round off transitions and induce jitter). That brings even relatively short cables into the transmission line regime, whereas for analogue audio that's not the case at all. Of course that doesn't imply that any of this will make an audible difference - I suspect not - but one can over-engineer. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pat Farrell;198972 Wrote: > > What I find amazing about this whole topic, aside from the massive > misunderstanding of technology by many posters, is the economics of it > all. Thirty years ago, people said no one would pay for TV, since it > was > free over the air. Now something like 85% of Americans have only cable, > > which is not free. If music was like cable TV, where I could buy as > much > as I could stand for $20 a month, all this DRM bull would go away > overnight. Well put. It's amazing how little thought people put into their positions on this. You get these doomsday scenarios, like if piracy continues we'll have no more music to listen to. It's completely insane - doesn't anyone remember that we've only had recorded music for about a century? Do they think there was no music before the 1830's, when musical scores were first made copyright-able in the US? Do they imagine musicians will stop making music if the big recording studios can't sell CDs? Forget about DRM - it's just a very bad idea. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops wrote: > but the important point i am also trying to make is that DRM will only > take off if the content is superior to what we get from ripping a cd > ourselves. eg distribute 24bit recording compressed to to give file > sizes as big as flac but with vastly superior sound. also very rich > tagging and art. You can try to make that argument until hell freezes over, but it ignores critical facts. Lets ignore most of the 'pay for quality' arguments, I believe there is no mass market for quality. And push aside any claim that people want DRM. Four record labels and a few major movie companies want DRM. DRM is not about artists, musicians, producers, recording studios, etc. It did not help Tower Records. DRM is the lawyers at the four labels and their front, the RIAA, wanting to keep their old business model. I'll ignore it too. The basic fact of cryptography is that security by obscurity does not work. Period. The only strong cryptographic solutions use published algorithms (DES, IDEA, RSA, BlowFish, AES, etc.) and rely upon the secrets being maintained. If you lose the secret (aka keys) all is lost. The old spy cliche about an agent with a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist, delivering the keys to Istanbul, Moscow, etc. is based on fact. The key is important. If you have networked music/video players, connected to an Internet like network, you can use some non-trivial techniques to distribute the keys. But there is no way, seriously, no way, to mass produce a player and keep the keys secret. The DVD player you buy at BestBuy has the key in it, and someone can get it out. DRM is at best a barrier to keep honest people out. What I find amazing about this whole topic, aside from the massive misunderstanding of technology by many posters, is the economics of it all. Thirty years ago, people said no one would pay for TV, since it was free over the air. Now something like 85% of Americans have only cable, which is not free. If music was like cable TV, where I could buy as much as I could stand for $20 a month, all this DRM bull would go away overnight. BTW, I write cryptographic software and security systems for a living. I worked at CyberCash when we invented, literally and technically, the idea of Internet commerce, paying with credit cards over the 'net, etc. Sean is correct, credit and debit cards have nothing to do with DRM. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Anne wrote: > I have ordered the dac upgrade for my Bryston, it has 2 Toslink and 2 > idpf (or whatever) inputs. > Thought I should go for this digital cable : > http://www.deko.no/produkter_studio.htm#XV2 > comes with bnc connectors but bnc to rca adapters are included > Maybe just a cheap video composite cabel will do just as good ? > Is Toslink better maybe ? There is no such thing as a digital cable. All cables send voltages down the wire. When you send a digital signal down a wire, the receiving end senses just the major transitions. Analog signals are sensed high, low, and in between. Technically, you can not have a proper 75 ohm connector using RCA. But for 99% of the uses, no one can tell any difference. Nearly all professional digital connections are BNC. Nearly all amateur/consumer gear uses RCA. Toslink is not better in theory, but it does avoid electrical connections, so it can be more immune to ground loops. In theory, toslink is worse than BNC 75 ohm connections, but I never could tell a difference. Good quality 75 ohm video cable should work fine. What do you mean, just as good? This is an audiophiles list, we obscess over everything. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
jonte0;198261 Wrote: > You can rule out: > 5) Using Wifi instead of wired (e-net wires have tons of nasty stuff on > them). > > as there is no exctraction of any timing info from ethernet. Then of > cource there could be other electrical aspects of ethernet but as it is > transformer coupled, these shuld be small. > > / The point here was not that Wired vs Wifi would recieve better. But what are the side effects down stream of having one vs the other active in the box. Some believe removing the Wifi card helps. While as I understand it the frequencies and power used on the wired side are much more likely to effect the audible domain than the higher frequency low power stuff of wifi. Similar argument used on the linear vs switched power supply. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Anne;198954 Wrote: > I have ordered the dac upgrade for my Bryston, it has 2 Toslink and 2 > idpf (or whatever) inputs. > Thought I should go for this digital cable : > http://www.deko.no/produkter_studio.htm#XV2 > comes with bnc connectors but bnc to rca adapters are included > Maybe just a cheap video composite cabel will do just as good ? > Is Toslink better maybe ? The Stereovox is an excellent cable. I'm using the earlier HDXV and couldn't be happier. The BNC to RCA adapters are really cool and very flexible. -- crooner Customized dual chassis "Super Squeezebox" EAD DSP-7000 MKIII DAC with HDCD VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tried the Mac Mini directly to the DAC
Nikhil;198747 Wrote: > Can you elaborate please? I thought SlimServer wasn't supposed to cause > clipping or any other modifications to the files other than transcoding > if required. I have a problem that some tracks that I have recorded in Apple Lossless play back fine on iTunes, but have audible clicking sounds on peaks when they play back through SlimServer, exactly like clipping effects. It happens on a number of CDs. I even tried ripping via EAC to WAV, then to Apple Lossless, but no improvement and feed the same DAC from the PC and the SB2. I can't explain it myself, both routes use the same Quicktime CODEC, but perhaps something else in the Slimserver chain is causing a problem. I've pretty much given up on it now, I just play the CDs instead or use iTunes. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
I have ordered the dac upgrade for my Bryston, it has 2 Toslink and 2 idpf (or whatever) inputs. Thought I should go for this digital cable : http://www.deko.no/produkter_studio.htm#XV2 comes with bnc connectors but bnc to rca adapters are included Maybe just a cheap video composite cabel will do just as good ? Is Toslink better maybe ? -- Anne Bryston B-100 SST, Squeezebox 3, Martin Logan Aeon I. Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Indeed. It is a true 75 ohm connector and designed to maintain a constant impedance. This is what I plan to use in my DAC and SB modifications. -- crooner Customized dual chassis "Super Squeezebox" EAD DSP-7000 MKIII DAC with HDCD VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Maybe a bit OT, but isnt bnc superior as a digital connector ? -- Anne Bryston B-100 SST, Squeezebox 3, Martin Logan Aeon I. Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
I hope Meridian doesn't rip off Slim's ideas and then promote them as their own, taking all the glory. That would suck big time! -- crooner Customized dual chassis "Super Squeezebox" EAD DSP-7000 MKIII DAC with HDCD VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
ncpl;198385 Wrote: > I, and a few others, tried to extract a few thoughts on SB's etc whilst > chatting with the powers that be at Meridian back in February. They > didn't make much comment either way. > > Do you have any other insight? > > Ultimately, I would like to see them put some of their digital knowhow > into this area of client hardware (heresy I know on a Slim forum ;) ) Using an SB system to access the music, going directly (clock-synced, not SPDIF) to a Meridian active system (or even an F80!) would be a great idea, IMO. However, I have no inside info - the guys at Meridian raved about their Squeezeboxes, but didn't let on anything. I wonder if they are creating their own slim streaming device - they have all the tech. Can't imagine it'll compete on price with the SB3 (or indeed the Transporter) though. If they do create it, one suspects the hi-fi press will drool suitably and say what a great idea it was! Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
darn pirates. why can't they get it through their heads that they should be thankful for the chance to trade hard plundered booty for imaginary goods when you buy an album at least you have something physical. forget about the fact that what it costs to buy at the store does not begin to represent the actual cost of materials or tiny fraction which goes to an artist who helped create the content for said album, which presumably would be the main reason for anybody wanting to purchase it.. bits will always be subjected to duplication treating your entire customer base as criminals and relying on new laws to support your business model just seems like a hassle. wouldn't it be easier to buy some farmland and have the government pay you to not grow anything? music is a service, not a good. it all got turned around with the gramophone but it's finally starting to resume natural order. -- EFP EFP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
So... measurements aren't everything. That's not news - just look at the specs of any valve amp. The first rule of choosing hi-fi is to trust your own ears. How the product works, and what measurements can be made from it, may be of academic interest to potential buyers - but it's only the design engineer that really needs to know about them. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Lessons about DRM we can learn about the Squeezebox: - if DRM were universal, small start-ups like Slim Devices would have a major obstacle to overcome in getting hold of the keys (hardware, software, licences... whatever) to play music at all. Therefore, it's highly unlikely we'd even HAVE a Squeezebox. - People like the ability to listen to music on multiple devices, distributed across a network, without having to fuss over where the CD (or the SIM card, or whatever) is. - Album art, lyrics and so on, may be nice to have, but are largely irrelevant. It's the music that counts. - Same goes for audio quality better than 44.1k/16 bit. Nice to have, but totally irrelevant to most people. I honestly struggle to see why anybody outside of the music industry would think DRM is a good thing. The ONLY thing it does is PREVENT music from being played. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] sb3 to a spare receiver
ankita;198920 Wrote: > thanks for the quick reply. sb3-yamaha receiver by coax and then how do > I connect receiver to anthem preamp since I want to play through anthem > to my revel speakers. so I would imagine yamaha receiver acts as a DAC. > do you think I'm better off connecting my sb3 directly to anthem > preamp. > thanks > ankita Does the Ymaha have a line direct out that bypasses the receiver pre amp and amp? If so , use that. If not, you might be out of luck. Unless the Yamaha is fairly new it may be likely the SB dac will sound beter anyway. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34933 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] sb3 to a spare receiver
thanks for the quick reply. sb3-yamaha receiver by coax and then how do I connect receiver to anthem preamp since I want to play through anthem to my revel speakers. so I would imagine yamaha receiver acts as a DAC. do you think I'm better off connecting my sb3 directly to anthem preamp. thanks ankita -- ankita ankita's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34933 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] sb3 to a spare receiver
You can use either the coax or toslink digital out from the SB3 into the corresponding coax or toslink digital in on the Yamaha receiver. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34933 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Quoting willyhoops ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > yea i know everyone is against drm but thats because drm today sucks > today, Here's where your argument breaks down, right in the beginning. There are many people opposed to DRM for far more reasons that 'it sucks today.' I am opposed to it because once I've purchased it, I would like to use the media on any device I choose both now and in the future. I don't want my usage dictated by either technology or record company executives. -- http://www.last.fm/user/ddewey ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] sb3 to a spare receiver
I have a high end music system with anthem AVM50 preamp, parasound amp and revel performa speakers. I have a spare yamaha RXV 795 receiver lying around. can I use it connect to my SB3 as a DAC and if so please walk me through the connections. Thanks ankita -- ankita ankita's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34933 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
This is a lot to put the world through just so one lazy person doesn't have to tag his files. And what makes him think the tags and album art will be any better? What is compelling them to add accurate tags, art, and lyrics? Nothing, once they've eliminated all other competition. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
yes of course i read your posts... the sim card makes the data unbreakable unless one has both the card and the data and has time to run the data through it. that's a step forward from today but as i said, after that kernel mode drivers, hdcp paths and digital signatures and the force of law have to be relied on to prevent him converting to an unprotected format. scan someone's hard drive and if you see the signature he is handling stolen goods. this is all a step far ahead of today where you can upload a protected apple file and i can download and break into it. worse i can download sample files and break into them. platform independence comes like hdcp from manufactures signing up to standards. but the important point i am also trying to make is that DRM will only take off if the content is superior to what we get from ripping a cd ourselves. eg distribute 24bit recording compressed to to give file sizes as big as flac but with vastly superior sound. also very rich tagging and art. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198886 Wrote: > No, that's the way DRM works today but not in the future. When you buy > by credit card you type your pin into the machine and it gets validated > by your sim card not the oline connection... the nubmer is stored in > there... has anyone managed to break into the sim - no (although > someone once made a little progress towards it)... in fact in the > Mondex and talking about electronic money based on this sim harware > it's totally secure. Did you read a single word of what I wrote? A debit card is not the same as DRM, not in the slightest. With a debit card, the user is TRUSTED. So is the owner of the ATM and the bank on the other end. The security mechanisms are not trying to prevent you from accessing YOUR OWN MONEY, it is trying to prevent OTHER PEOPLE from accessing it. These people, who are NOT TRUSTED, are not given the key. With DRM, it is the USER who is not trusted - the user, who is in possession of the key. Do you see the difference? You don't understand the most basic concepts about DRM, and you seem unwilling to learn, even to read my responses to your posts. I am not going to waste my time trying to explain this to you any more. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Ben Diss;198021 Wrote: > Summary of the "Lavry" issue: When the DA10 was first introduced the > manual stated that is was not oversampling. A revision of the manual > later removed that statement. It appears that the Lavry does indeed > oversample. > > That's it. Nothing more. It still sounds as good as it ever did. > > -Ben The problem is not with his statements - according to the info posted there it measures very badly. May be not a real problem to worry about, but it does make me wondering... What's true is that whatever problems are there I can't name any other DAC that sounds that good at $1K price point. -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Patrick Dixon;198013 Wrote: > http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1027 Oh, sh*t! I was about to order it... What I don't get is how does it manage to sound that good after all the terrible measuarements - Phase noise, power supply noise, etc? -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > yea i know everyone is against drm but thats because drm today sucks > today, and because when you buy protected audio content the quality is > less than you get from ripping a cd yourself, and the added tags are > simple and no better than existing mp3 tags. but with the right > software + hardware development all these concerns can go away. DRM will still suck in the future, since it requires that I'm tied to hardware that I can't completely control (or it won't work). willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > a sim card drm so that when you buy music you can download a version > encrypted against a couple of sim cards that you own... and when your > srm is visible on the network any device can use it to play your > protected files... so maybe that sim sits in your pc or your squeezebox > or ipod it doesn't matter.. So the unprotected data is sent over the network? DRM defeated. Or the network itself now needs to be encrypted? That's more hardware required, so that my existing hardware can use it. I realise you're not claiming to be an expert in the technical details, but I just can't see something like that working without it being unfair to me, the listener. willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > i am saying this is the holy grail that would cause an explosion of > music sales and solve the problem of distributing intellectual > property. It didn't work for SACD: that's very well protected, but it's a niche product. HDCP will only take off because it's going to be in all HDTVs and players in the future -- anybody buying into HD from now on will also get HDCP. (And many people who have already bought HD will find that, without HDCP, some content in the future will not be available to them.) There's no compelling reason to make such a wholesale replacement of an audio system for most people (high audio fidelity doesn't seem to be as noticeable as high-resolution video, and even that isn't obvious to many). willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > it's the vision the record companies need to work towards but dont have > the skills to implement today they are hostage to one self interested > company - Apple. solving these problems are critical to the future. Note that Apple is expected to finally allow record labels to sell music without DRM through ITMS: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/30/2225246 willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > todays it's cd piracy, tomorrow it's films, one day it will be books. Interestingly, one publisher has found he's better off releasing books for free (no DRM) online: http://www.baen.com/library/ willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > these issues can't always be solved by hoping t-shirt sales and live gig > money makes up the difference. Note that this financial issue is exacerbated by the fact that any band is paying back a record company for the money spent in producing and promoting the record. Of course, somebody needs to pay for that. But if the record companies weren't focussing on spending huge amounts on relatively few sure-to-chart hit artists, perhaps the amount to be spent would be reduced and the shortfall easier to manage. willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > so i am saying yea people would buy more music because the record > companies will have the confidence to create and distribute better > content. There's already a lot of great content being produced, but it's not being marketed to a fragmented audience where most of the revenue is in playing top-40 on the main radio stations. Where I think the record companies could do better, content-wise, is to take more chances and spend less money on the blockbuster artists -- I'm not saying those artists aren't worth listening to, but there's an awful lot spent on them and they've become "product". They're the ones who are bringing in the money. If adding DRM really did guarantee an income stream, why would the record companies bother to look for something different? willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > And from the users point of view he can't copy his friends collection > but all the ripping and tagging and messing about will vanish. Again, anecdotally: I don't find that people generally copy entire collections just like that. Rather, a friend will recommend an album and if I like it, I'll buy it, and probably buy the follow-up and go to the concert. I recognise that not everybody will pay having got a copy, but a lot of those people will now be fans and be more interested in buying the next record. willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > then the squeezebox will no longer be a niche product but something > anyone with any level of computer knowledge will be able to put into > their living room. Sounds like what's needed are open standards and protocols for music storage, serving and playback, not tighter restrictions. And if it's open, it won't just be the SqueezeBox but anybody's hardware which can use it. willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > anyone with the vast skills required to build a real sophisticated drm > that makes everyon
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
No, that's the way DRM works today but not in the future. When you buy by credit card you type your pin into the machine and it gets validated by your sim card not the oline connection... the nubmer is stored in there... has anyone managed to break into the sim - no (although someone once made a little progress towards it)... in fact in the Mondex and talking about electronic money based on this sim harware it's totally secure. So the music would need to be encripted at the server side and decoded on the fly inside the sim 'cpu'. Of course it's not perfect becuase the output comes out afterwards so if you have both the sim and the music you can turn your music in an open format if you are a russian programmer- but that's where we talk about protected kernel mode drivers and HDCP. that technology is good enough combined with the force of law. do all this with in SB9 and Transporter9 and emi will push $$$ at you is my view... ps: and i will never need to rip another cd again :-) -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198878 Wrote: > anyone with the vast skills required to build a real sophisticated drm > that makes everyone happy would make a fortune. You don't understand. DRM can not work in the way that you think it can, and it's not a matter of someone not having enough "skills" to have done it yet. The ENTIRE BASIS of DRM is to hide the key from the user. You are giving them the encrypted thing and the key to decode it, and hoping that they can't find the key because you have obfuscated it. Any sufficiently determined programmer can find it, no matter how hard you try to hide it. So the only thing that makes DRM "work" is to hide its mechanism by trade secret, or to make it illegal to "traffic" in a "circumvention device" which is already what the DMCA does. As a matter of fact, a russian programmer visiting the US was JAILED for revealing that Adobe had defrauded the customers of its eBook software. Adobe claimed that it contained sophisticated, secure encryption when in fact is was a trivial XOR function against a repeating string. So if that's already illegal under current law, how much more legal support do you suggest DRM needs? Should we behead the programmers? Given that DRM works by hiding the key from the user, what exactly makes you think that a "platform independent" DRM scheme could ever work? Any standard would be "cracked" instantly - indeed, if the spec is opened then there is NOTHING TO CRACK! It's not a matter of technical prowess on the DRM supplier's part to prevent that from happening. This is really basic stuff that has beaten to death a zillion times since the DMCA has been introduced. I won't even get into how ridiculous it is to expect that you can lock down the whole thing to the point that nobody can get their hands on unencrypted music any more. It's just absurd. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
yea i know everyone is against drm but thats because drm today sucks today, and because when you buy protected audio content the quality is less than you get from ripping a cd yourself, and the added tags are simple and no better than existing mp3 tags. but with the right software + hardware development all these concerns can go away. a sim card drm so that when you buy music you can download a version encrypted against a couple of sim cards that you own... and when your srm is visible on the network any device can use it to play your protected files... so maybe that sim sits in your pc or your squeezebox or ipod it doesn't matter.. i am saying this is the holy grail that would cause an explosion of music sales and solve the problem of distributing intellectual property. it's the vision the record companies need to work towards but dont have the skills to implement today they are hostage to one self interested company - Apple. solving these problems are critical to the future. todays it's cd piracy, tomorrow it's films, one day it will be books. so i am saying yea people would buy more music because the record companies will have the confidence to create and distribute better content. And from the users point of view he can't copy his friends collection but all the ripping and tagging and messing about will vanish. then the squeezebox will no longer be a niche product but something anyone with any level of computer knowledge will be able to put into their living room. anyone with the vast skills required to build a real sophisticated drm that makes everyone happy would make a fortune. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > > From this, record companies should learn that they could dramatically > increase demand if they found a piracy safe method of selling digital > music that offered customers something more than the zillions of mp3 > files floating freely around the world today. Good as my tagging > efforts are, they are nothing compared to what would be possible if the > record companies really embraced the embedding of text and images into > music files. Also I could save hours of my life not having to rip CDs > anymore. > I have an alternative suggestion - do away with copyrights for music entirely! As far as I know, the vast majority of musicians make their money from live gigs. Secondary sources of income include jobs like doing the soundtrack for a movie (the one musician I know that does that is paid a lump sum per film, no royalties), music teaching, etc. Only the very rare extremely successful ones make money from record sales or licensing. The record companies do provide some services - advertising and promotion, recording studios. But with digital technology it's pretty easy for musicians to make decent quality recordings. Distribution is so simple and fast over the internet it does away with most of the need for extra advertising and promotion. So one can make a powerful argument that musicians don't need the record companies or copyright - and certainly the public is significantly harmed by both. Constitutional Convention Wrote: > The Congress shall have Power... ...To promote the Progress of Science > and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors > the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. Precisely what about music copyrights promotes the useful arts? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > > (a) Create a new DRM standard that is truly platform independent and > that customers feel safe with eg using a SIM card. If the customer > looses his sim and his hard drive, he must be able to get another and > download the music again. > > (b) Make sure the audio is at least CD quality and possibly even better > (eg 24bit). > > (c) Fill the new standard with text and images eg the words of every > song, at least a pic for each track etc etc. > > (d) Create a new HDCP equivalent path for digital audio connectors to > protect the content from piracy. > > (e) Push Governments to support their efforts by making encryption > breaking tools illegal. So people will want to buy more music if we add more DRM, even on digital audio cables, and back it by even more force of law than we already have with the DMCA? Wow. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > Of course the answer is that although in general hard drive storage of > music dramatically increases ones appetite for music, CD sales are > down because of increasing piracy. So we're told by the record labels, but I don't think there's been much evidence shown for that. willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > So I think the record companies need to > > (a) Create a new DRM standard that is truly platform independent and > that customers feel safe with eg using a SIM card. If the customer > looses his sim and his hard drive, he must be able to get another and > download the music again. And would I have to buy a new SIM card for every device I wanted to listen on? My laptop, my SqueezeBox, my portable music player? And what happens when a record company goes out of business and will no longer supply me with a replacement SIM? What if it refuses to sell me a replacement because it doesn't believe I've lost the old one? What if I tire of an album and want to sell it to somebody else? I don't think it's possible to create a platform independent DRM standard without locking down the hardware (Palladium, "Trusted Computing" and all that). willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > (b) Make sure the audio is at least CD quality and possibly even better > (eg 24bit). > > (c) Fill the new standard with text and images eg the words of every > song, at least a pic for each track etc etc. High quality and good metadata (including lyrics and artwork): agreed. willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > (d) Create a new HDCP equivalent path for digital audio connectors to > protect the content from piracy. Determined "pirates" will just capture the analogue signal and re-encode it to MP3. The majority of people who want to copy music without paying for it will be quite happy with that. Meanwhile, the rest of us have to buy new hardware to use these new connectors. Garage start-ups (like SlimDevices) will likely not be able to support the new connectors with first-gen products when licensing agreements and fees start to get in the way. willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > (e) Push Governments to support their efforts by making encryption > breaking tools illegal. I strongly disagree that record companies have such inalienable rights to their business model that (more) over-general legislation should be introduced to artificially protect it. There are lots of reasons one would want to break encryption; why stop all of them just to deal with this one problem, which is already illegal? Actually, when I read this item I started to wonder if this whole post was satirical (maybe it is). It's already illegal to violate copyright by distributing, say, a copy of a Beatles CD.Who's going to worry about that encryption-cracking prohibition if they're already breaking the law? Answering my own question: people will worry if the penalty for one is made higher than the other. Of course, the DMCA in the US already does this: it's illegal to bypass a copy-protection mechanism, even if you're doing so to exercise fair use rights. It adds more penalties to selling knocked-off DVDs, but also prevents a lot of people doing things they would otherwise be able to do. Anecdotally: I buy CDs. I like having a physical copy of an album, as a back-up and an actual thing to look at, and I can use it in actual CD players. I would buy music online if it were high quality and in an open format that isn't tied into any specific device (and have indeed bought a few titles like that, when they've been available in no other way) -- and if it's competing with a CD, it will have to be a lot cheaper. I wouldn't buy DRM-laden music because I'd have no guarantee that I'd be able to play it tomorrow. Adding DRM to a download will turn me off of it, and will (IMO) make no difference to "piracy". -- smst smst's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;198844 Wrote: > > Maybe they will fail and the future will become music on demand > services. Then you pay a monthly subscription and get access to > zillions of CDs. However its unclear if all the bandwidth that would > entail is feasible... and it still requires new audio formats and > standards. Or perhaps music sales are down because the Big4 catalog for the most part sucks. Indie labels are mostly growing: how come piracy isn't affecting them? Lots of bands have free tracks on Myspace, and they get people to buy their albums but that is mostly Indie acts. The "problem" to me seems to be more that society is more accepting of microcultures, that diversity is more acceptable in the current world... except for the Big4, who believe the only music worth producing is the double-platinum. You can see some of this in the fight for 'net radio royalties here in the US: the RIAA should be encouraging the most offbeat and weird stations, the stations that play stuff that has been buried in their catalog that 4 people found. Getting those songs onto last.fm, Pandora and other "discovery" services should be a priority for them. But they don't care. Instead, they will have consultants pay to get yet-another-Britney album onto the radio. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: System Balancing � - your thoughts please
A 3020 is actually pretty good, used it both on IMF TLS80 and Audiostatic ES 100 DCI electrostatics. -- Anne Bryston B-100 SST, Squeezebox 3, Martin Logan Aeon I. Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Since I started using the Squeezebox I have developed a new enthusiasm for music, and my purchasing of CDs has gone through the roof. I also noticed others on this forum saying the same. So how come CD sales are down 20% year on year again? Of course the answer is that although in general hard drive storage of music dramatically increases ones appetite for music, CD sales are down because of increasing piracy. Hard drive storage also makes piracy far far easier than in the past. Squeezebox audiophile fans like ourselves are just a special case because we need lossless encoded flac files which are generally not available from friends or file sharing web sites. Indeed such is our demand for music that not only do we increase our rate of CD purchasing, we also spend hours carefully ripping and tagging our music. >From this, record companies should learn that they could dramatically increase demand if they found a piracy safe method of selling digital music that offered customers something more than the zillions of mp3 files floating freely around the world today. Good as my tagging efforts are, they are nothing compared to what would be possible if the record companies really embraced the embedding of text and images into music files. Also I could save hours of my life not having to rip CDs anymore. So I think the record companies need to (a) Create a new DRM standard that is truly platform independent and that customers feel safe with eg using a SIM card. If the customer looses his sim and his hard drive, he must be able to get another and download the music again. (b) Make sure the audio is at least CD quality and possibly even better (eg 24bit). (c) Fill the new standard with text and images eg the words of every song, at least a pic for each track etc etc. (d) Create a new HDCP equivalent path for digital audio connectors to protect the content from piracy. (e) Push Governments to support their efforts by making encryption breaking tools illegal. Neither Apple or Microsofts DRM efforts to date come anywhere near accomplishing these things. The trouble is who is going to create all this for them? Only companies like Apple and Microsoft have the skills to push such a far reaching vision. Sony would be next on the list but the company appears to be floundering because it tries to tie people into proprietary formats and it cant write good software. Maybe they will fail and the future will become music on demand services. Then you pay a monthly subscription and get access to zillions of CDs. However its unclear if all the bandwidth that would entail is feasible... and it still requires new audio formats and standards. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: System Balancing � - your thoughts please
cliveb;198767 Wrote: > ... a NAD 3020 and a pair of Videotone Minimaxes. OMG you've just brought my teenage years flooding back! -- Matt B Matt Server = .flac - SlimServer 6.5.1 2 - Linux ClarkConnect 4.0 - Shuttle SK21G Living Room = SB3 - Moth passive pre-amp & monoblocs - ProAC Tablette II Bedroom = SB2 - Aego M Matt B's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6215 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: System Balancing � - your thoughts please
You actually just need an an amplifier that is capable of driving your speakers. By this I mean matching is extremely important. Amplifiers and speakers interact, and one amplifier with a rating of 100 watts might not drive your speakers properly compared to another make with the same rating. I compare this to be in the same league as cartridge/arm matching in turntables. You can get amazing sound with a cheap source and an amp/speaker matched combination. But start with the speakers, find some that matches your room, not just the model you tend to like. Actually a manufacturers smaller models might often play a lot better in your room than the more expensive bigger brother. My system can be seen in my signature. Planned upgrades is Welborne labs power for the SB3, and the onboard dac for the Bryston is already ordered. Very minimalistic since I do not have a big appartment. -- Anne Bryston B-100 SST, Squeezebox 3, Martin Logan Aeon I. Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: System Balancing � - your thoughts please
adamslim;198685 Wrote: > Mr T of Linn in the 70s demonstrated this with his Sondek turntable - > everyone thought sources and amps were almost identical, and you just > needed to spend on speakers. With Linn, they were selling systems with > £1k turntables and £100 on each of the amp and speakers (!). Actually, at the time, there was absolutely no dispute that pickup cartridges sounded radically different, nor even that pickup arms had a major influence. What everyone did tend to believe was that the turntable itself - just the bit that turns the LP round & round - would have no bearing (no pun intended) on the sound, provided things like wow & flutter and rumble were suitably low. What Tifenbrun managed to persuade (nearly) everyone through clever use of marketing smoke and mirrors was that the turntable itself was *the most important* part of the system. Hence stupidly unbalanced systems that used a Linn LP12 with a cheap Acos Lustre arm and low-end cartridge feeding a NAD 3020 and a pair of Videotone Minimaxes. The most amazing thing is how long it took before the con was widely exposed. (And by the way: I was one of those who were suckered in. I still own an LP12. It's a fine turntable but it's not the philosopher's stone that it was made out to be back in the 70s and 80s. If I were in the market for a turntable today, the LP12 wouldn't even be on the shortlist). -- cliveb Performers -> dozens of mixers and effects -> clipped/hypercompressed mastering -> you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: System Balancing � - your thoughts please
When I do dinner parties I like to do quick listening tests - well at least with the guys and before the wine has started taking hold :-) My last one was only two days ago on portable mp3 players. I have an Apple iPod Video 80Gb, a Sony NW-HD5 20GB and an iRiver HP-120 20Gb and a special edition top end Sony D-EJ01 CD Walkman. We tested all these devices with high quality Sony MDF-F1 Headphones. For the jukebox players the music was in a very high bitrate format so audio compression problems could be ruled out. The most obvious first point is that the iPod and the Sony D-EJ01 CD Walkman had lots of volume, the iRiver was OK, but the Sony NW-HD5 didn't go loud enough. I held all the players in my hand and pulled the headphones socket out and switched it into different devices for the test. I also turned the volume down each time so the user then had to tell me how hight he would like it. The results of the test were unamious (always nice): the Sony D-EJ01 CD Walkman won. The NW-HD5 came next, then the iPod and iRiver came way behind. The iPod just sounded kind of lifeless compared to the NW-HD5 and CD Walkman. It annoyed a couple of people to see their beloved iPod loose so bady. It's a shame that these big computer companies like Apple can't do a decent job of the music playback. If sony can make a lovely sounding CD Walkman so can Apple - it's just lazyness. I kind of feel the SB3 is the same - if they had put a little bit of extra effort in which wouldn't have cost much more I wouldn't need an external DAC or an expensive transporter. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
