Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
CPC;256228 Wrote: > See Alex's forum for more info. No mention of an additional board for the analogue section, given that Alex isn't keen on capacitor coupling in the analogue output I'm looking forward to hearing what other changes have been made. Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] THIS is how to do a tube mod...
Superb video, thanks Sean for sharing! -- crooner Customized dual chassis "Super Squeezebox" EAD DSP-7000 Series III DAC with HDCD and mods. VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Marantz 10B tube FM tuner Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41957 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
Great thread! I definitely enjoyed reading it. Keep up the great work Sean! -- cdnpaul cdnpaul's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3270 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
GaryG;256148 Wrote: > Maybe, in effect, that's what APLHiFi are doing. Given that they're > stacking DAC chips and including a new single ended analogue output > stage (stated as disabling the XLR output), to me that reads like a new > DAC board being fed from the digital section of the original Transporter > PCB and bypassing the rest of the original circuitry. Pretty much the > same as Patrick Dixon is doing with the SB+, but based on a transporter > rather than an SB3. An expensive donor using the Transporter but his > comments on it being a good design with Jung regulators may be the > reason why he's chosen it in favour of the SB3. Pure speculation of > course! > > Regards > Gary See Alex's forum for more info. -- CPC CPC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] THIS is how to do a tube mod...
Now we know what Sean's been up to... ...introducing Transporter v2, with no transistors... -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ free plugins: http://www.tux.org/~peterw/#slim AllQuiet BlankSaver BottleRocket FuzzyTime SaverSwitcher SleepFade StatusFirst SyncOptions VolumeLock peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41957 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] THIS is how to do a tube mod...
Watched that a few days ago. Boy, would I like a shop like that guy. Look at all the machining tools he has at the end. -- riffer riffer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13459 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41957 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] THIS is how to do a tube mod...
seanadams;256191 Wrote: > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.html Should have guessed you'd be a slashdot reader... :-) -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41957 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter playing 88 kHz files
Sean has posted a few times that the SB2/3's processor isn't fast enough to handle 96k sample rates, so the answer is no If I understand correctly, the Duet is basically a displayless SB3, which would imply that it will be restricted to 44/48k as well. -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] THIS is how to do a tube mod...
That was fun...now if I could just figure a way to DIY electrons. btw... Two hydrogens are walking along a street. The first one says, "Hey! I think I lost an electron!" The second one replies, "Are you sure?" The first one then says, "Yeah, I'm POSITIVE." . -- haunyack Happy Leap Year! haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41957 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] THIS is how to do a tube mod...
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.html -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41957 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;256147 Wrote: > You seem confused about the difference between objective vs subjective > claims. It is too bad that the APL mods and the Modwright mods have > been conflated in this thread, as the nature of each and the claims > being made are _completely_ different. Please do not attribute my > comments out of context to the wrong one - sorry I was not more clear > as to which I was referring. > Don't be. That is the purpose of discourse - to clarify exactly what each persons position is. And yes, reading my posts indicates I need to be clearer in what I am trying to say. Thanks Bill -- bhobba bhobba's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14889 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
mr_bill;256120 Wrote: > I appreciate Sean's comments as he is the designer, and engineer and > knows a heck of a lot more than I do! Thanks for the voice of truth. > I have not been posting here long, but I like Sean's posts as well. Their 'no nonsense' approach is refreshing. They are similar to another engineer - Frank Alstine at AVA Hi Fi. Careful reading of them shows they are rather well considered. My only concern is that when an idea looks silly you should look at the guy making the claims. Alex at APL Hi Fi is a well respected engineer of quite a few years experience. If he makes a claim that looks on the surface like 'hooey' then perhaps a request for clarification is warranted rather than dismissing it. Thanks Bill -- bhobba bhobba's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14889 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
kenreau;256137 Wrote: > > Sean - Are you attending CES this week? > Not this year went last year and it was a bit too much of a zoo. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;255739 Wrote: > Certain kinds of modifications that involve reducing noise are not > physically possible without a board respin. Maybe, in effect, that's what APLHiFi are doing. Given that they're stacking DAC chips and including a new single ended analogue output stage (stated as disabling the XLR output), to me that reads like a new DAC board being fed from the digital section of the original Transporter PCB and bypassing the rest of the original circuitry. Pretty much the same as Patrick Dixon is doing with the SB+, but based on a transporter rather than an SB3. An expensive donor using the Transporter but his comments on it being a good design with Jung regulators may be the reason why he's chosen it in favour of the SB3. Pure speculation of course! Regards Gary -- GaryG GaryG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2423 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
bhobba;256135 Wrote: > not measuring distortion in a lab or dismissing ideas that may on the > surface look like hooey. You seem confused about the difference between objective vs subjective claims. It is too bad that the APL mods and the Modwright mods have been conflated in this thread, as the nature of each and the claims being made are _completely_ different. Please do not attribute my comments out of context to the wrong one - sorry I was not more clear as to which I was referring. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
Phil Leigh;256086 Wrote: > Any chance of moving (most of) this thread to the music forum? Good point. I was only going to say that selling 27.6bit 212kHz recordings does not make them worth buying. OTOH (back to the subject), it would be nice to have a device able to process all available formats like e.g. dCS Elgar Plus: "This wide range of interfaces, combined with the unit's ability to lock to any standard sample rate from 32kS/s to 192kS/s and accept DSD data, enables the Elgar Plus to be used with almost any currently available, or foreseeable standard audiophile digital source." -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
Imho, unless you have actually heard a modified player, you really can't comment on what they should sound like. For those that can, or care to, you can actually hear a MWI modified Transporter at CES this week. Dan Wright is set up in the following room at the Venetian and you can hear for yourself what all the fuss is about. And yes, there will also be a cockamamie turntable there spinning big black seedees as well. CES - The Venetian - Suite 29-231 ModWright - LS36.5/PS 36.5, SWP 9.0SE Phono, Modified Transporter digital Emerald Physic Speakers Redpoint Audio Design Turntable Sean - Are you attending CES this week? Kenreau -- kenreau kenreau's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14907 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
Pat Farrell;255883 Wrote: > rajacat wrote:[color=blue] > Sure, its 'possible' to make tubes sounds like transistors, and vice > versa, but why bother? If you like tubes, get them. If you like solid > state, get them. > To understand why valves sound better in some ways than solid state, and conversely. Research in that direction has led some designers (eg Hugh Dean at Aspen) to the design of a solid state amp that does not have the 'colorations' of valves yet, to the ears of guys that like valves, has their other desirable properties (musicality, fluidity and the other gush they go on about). Ask him what makes an amp sound good (and he has designed a god awful lot of them) and he will tell you he does not know. There are tons of possible circuit topologies to investigate and listen to. Me - I simply want an amp to disappear, but since the ear is a rather complex thing designing an amp to do that requires building and listening to it - not measuring distortion in a lab or dismissing ideas that may on the surface look like hooey. Thanks Bill -- bhobba bhobba's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14889 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
I appreciate Sean's comments as he is the designer, and engineer and knows a heck of a lot more than I do! Thanks for the voice of truth. If Sean can look at the mod and know if it's going to be an improvement or not from theory and design and reality, then thanks for letting us know! This takes personal preference and imagined improvement out and puts objectivity in. Parts swappers and modders are not necessarily right. There is theory and truth involved too. A higher noise floor and the addition of some distortion related bloom and color doesn't produce a better product unless that's what you're looking for. -- mr_bill mr_bill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
radish;256094 Wrote: > Of course the fact is that a modded TP is still a TP. Sean could sit > back and watch people buy modded players quite happily knowing that $2k > of the purchase price went straight to Logitech - once the unit has left > the premises and the money's in the bank who cares? > > He is instead giving his opinion as an obviously skilled engineer with > a unique knowledge of the product in question. Personally, given > history and his position I am inclined to give him the benefit of the > doubt, but in any case I don't see why he has to prove anything other > than that a stock TP performs to specs. If someone claimed to make your > car go faster by painting it a different color would you go straight to > Toyota and demand they prove otherwise? Or would you first ask for a > demonstration from the paint salesman? Nicely put, Radish. The whole thing about mods (of anything) is that ultimately it is the customer that has to decide if the mod was worth the money to them. The OEM has zero interest in the outcome for the reasons stated. In this respect, Sean's contribution to this thread is ... unusual. I've recently had my DAC rebuilt (almost the only original components are the DAC chip, PCB and case) and it sounds fantastic and way better than before. I wouldn't expect the OEM to have an ounce of interest in this. They built their original product - which I was happy to buy - to a pricepoint and a technical/performance spec they set. Their job is done. I wouldn't waste their time telling them how much better the mod is - I know they made conscious design decisions and could have made it differently if they had wanted to. Sean (I think) is saying that he made the TP as well as he could at the time - and if he was doing a TP mkII he MIGHT make some minor changes...that is the nature of progress. However, as the designer he is perfectly entitled - in fact he is more entitled than anyone on the planet - to express an opinion on any mods from a theoretical point of view. Does anyone out really think that all manufacturers spend time listening to competitor products? I don't believe they do. I think they spend time following/refining their own vision. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
radish;256094 Wrote: > ...I don't see why he has to prove anything For that matter, those who would like Sean to do the footwork in order to prove out differences between the stock and mod TP, should take aim at the modders. IMO the onus is on the modders, not Sean . -- haunyack Happy Leap Year! haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
Of course the fact is that a modded TP is still a TP. Sean could sit back and watch people buy modded players quite happily knowing that $2k of the purchase price went straight to Logitech - once the unit has left the premises and the money's in the bank who cares? He is instead giving his opinion as an obviously skilled engineer with a unique knowledge of the product in question. Personally, given history and his position I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but in any case I don't see why he has to prove anything other than that a stock TP performs to specs. If someone claimed to make your car go faster by painting it a different color would you go straight to Toyota and demand they prove otherwise? Or would you first ask for a demonstration from the paint salesman? -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
Any chance of moving (most of) this thread to the music forum? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;256048 Wrote: > Maybe. Or maybe based on what I know of the Transporter and of > electrical engineering, I can be quite confident in my position with > just the information at hand. > > Here's an analogy: Suppose I sell bits of string which are 3" in > length. Perfect for tying up very small parcels, attaching notes to > pigeons' legs, etc. > > Then someone claims that by simply tying one of my bits of string into > a knot, he has increased its length to 4". Now, based on what I know of > string and of knots, I can safely say "no way". > > Is the onus not on the tier of knots to demonstrate that he has in fact > increased the length of the string by his method? He could at least show > a picture of this magically knotted string so that we can see that at > least _something_ of interest has been done to it... > > The length of a bit of string, like the amount of jitter in a clock > signal or the number of bits per sample supported by a digital audio > device, are observable things. But not only are they easily tested, > they can also be predicted and understood without even having to lay > hands on the thing, because we have theory to tell us how this stuff > works. > > However, nobody has seen, heard, or measured this claimed 4" bit of > string. Nobody can explain how one might tie a knot in such a way as to > make it 4" in length. Perhaps the first few people to buy such a string > will never take the time to hold a ruler against it and see how long it > really is. They will just be happy to have a longer bit of string > because they were told it is longer. That is exactly how these scams > work! People are gullible. The snake oil salesmen would be out of > business if people took time to test this stuff or learn how it works. > > > > You don't think I have better things to do? the only reason I post in > threads like this is because I don't want my customers to be misled. > But after a certain point, if someone insists on believing despite all > evidence to the contrary, I give up! What if the 3" string was moving at the speed of light? :-P -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
jdbaker;256073 Wrote: > Sean, > > I dig your feistiness man. Ya' know...if Ivor Tiefunbrun was watching this I bet he'd be yelling "Go Sean, Go Sean" -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
Sean, I dig your feistiness man. -- jdbaker SB3/Parasound C2/A51/PSB CHS60's/CHS40/Triad Gold Dipole Inwall Surrounds/Triad Inwall Silver Sub. SB3/Conrad Johnson D/A 2-B Tubed DAC/Arcam FMJ A32/Monitor Audio Silver S6 jdbaker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8531 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
adamslim;256062 Wrote: > Your analogy is a bit disingenuous - these mods are available, so you > can test them, unlike your strings. I don't follow that statement at all. It was an analogy. I am _supposing_ that these bits of strings were sold by me, and then modded and re-sold by someone else. Of course I am not actually in the bits of string business. Suppose = to assume for the sake of argument. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;256048 Wrote: > Maybe. Or maybe based on what I know of the Transporter and of > electrical engineering, I can be quite confident in my position with > just the information at hand. > > Here's an analogy: Your analogy is a bit disingenuous - these mods are available, so you can test them, unlike your strings. seanadams;256048 Wrote: > You don't think I have better things to do? the only reason I post in > threads like this is because I don't want my customers to be misled. > But after a certain point, if someone insists on believing despite all > evidence to the contrary, I give up! You may have better things to do, but Slim Devices, a company producing an audiophile product, should have someone who investigates actual competing and complementary products. This is not some theory out there that the software version x has quantum alignment properties that sweeten the sound, it's an actual product that someone makes and people buy on the basis that it sounds better than yours. How much time would it really take? I don't believe that the Modwright (or whatever) mods are better than the stock TP; I haven't heard them, so I can hold no position. However, the more I see where you diss them without checking them out, the more I am sceptical about the TP! Would it not even be interesting to get the modders around and have some kind of challenge? Allow them to demonstrate the improvements, with neutral observers? This would be a fun event, and there's no downside for you - every TP modded is a TP sold by you! Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR V20, Heybrook Sextets plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
adamslim;256062 Wrote: > > You may have better things to do, but Slim Devices, a company producing > an audiophile product, should have someone who investigates actual > competing and complementary products. And if someone makes a lacquered wood knob for $2000 to replace the aluminum one that we include, do we have to test that too? -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
Raj, I believe Sean was primarily responding to the other TP mod which uses 32 bit dacs when he disputed the claims their mods made. I think if you carefully reread his posts you will see that. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
rajacat;256057 Wrote: > > Do you think that you gaining customer confidence by demonstrating that > you don't have an open mind? I do have an open mind. I am quite open to evidence or explanation of these claims. None has been presented. > Have you listened to the ModWright Transporter? I doubt, it yet you > seem to prejudge it without first hand knowledge. It would be very > interesting to conduct blind A/B tests of the stock TP vs. the MWTP. To be clear, in my previous two post I was talking about the APL, not the Modwright. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;255997 Wrote: > > But hey, maybe I don't know my head from a hole in the wall if you > think that's the case, go ahead and buy one of these modded TPs, and we > can have a listen, see what's in it, and test their claims. Maybe you don't I have no need for a stock or modded TP. If you feel Alex's claims are BS, than you should buy one, test it and prove him wrong. PS- I'm very happy with the SB3 that Pat upgraded for me. Thanks for releasing the new Duet remote. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
""You don't think I have better things to do? the only reason I post in threads like this is because I don't want my customers to be misled. But after a certain point, if someone insists on believing despite all evidence to the contrary, I give up! Do you think that you gaining customer confidence by demonstrating that you don't have an open mind? Have you listened to the ModWright Transporter? I doubt, it yet you seem to prejudge it without first hand knowledge. It would be very interesting to conduct blind A/B tests of the stock TP vs. the MWTP. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
adamslim;256041 Wrote: > It's a good response, Sean, but I would have thought that you would be > interested in buying one and seeing if there is something in it. That > is the ultimate test. Maybe. Or maybe based on what I know of the Transporter and of electrical engineering, I can be quite confident in my position with just the information at hand. Here's an analogy: Suppose I sell bits of string which are 3" in length. Perfect for tying up very small parcels, attaching notes to pigeons' legs, etc. Then someone claims that by simply tying one of my bits of string into a knot, he has increased its length to 4". Now, based on what I know of string and of knots, I can safely say "no way". Is the onus not on the tier of knots to demonstrate that he has in fact increased the length of the string by his method? He could at least show a picture of this magically knotted string so that we can see that at least _something_ of interest has been done to it... The length of a bit of string, like the amount of jitter in a clock signal or the number of bits per sample supported by a digital audio device, are observable things. But not only are they easily tested, they can also be predicted and understood without even having to lay hands on the thing, because we have theory to tell us how this stuff works. However, nobody has seen, heard, or measured this claimed 4" bit of string. Nobody can explain how one might tie a knot in such a way as to make it 4" in length. Perhaps the first few people to buy such a string will never take the time to hold a ruler against it and see how long it really is. They will just be happy to have a longer bit of string because they were told it is longer. That is exactly how these scams work! People are gullible. The snake oil salesmen would be out of business if people took time to test this stuff or learn how it works. > You could even have A-B trials at your next open day, and demonstrate > that the difference is euphonic distortion, and the the TP is better. > > Surely Logitech's budget would run to that? You don't think I have better things to do? the only reason I post in threads like this is because I don't want my customers to be misled. But after a certain point, if someone insists on believing despite all evidence to the contrary, I give up! -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;255997 Wrote: > But hey, maybe I don't know my head from a hole in the wall if you > think that's the case, go ahead and buy one of these modded TPs, and we > can have a listen, see what's in it, and test their claims. It's a good response, Sean, but I would have thought that you would be interested in buying one and seeing if there is something in it. That is the ultimate test. You could even have A-B trials at your next open day, and demonstrate that the difference is euphonic distortion, and the the TP is better. Surely Logitech's budget would run to that? -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR V20, Heybrook Sextets plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
OK, more examples. Compare Georgy Cziffra playing Liszt with anybody else. Compare Brandenburg Concertos played by Masaaki Suzuki and Ton Koopman or Harnoncourt. Compare any Russian music played by "Russians" (Russian speaking musicians studied in Russia or former USSR) and anybody else. Compare Strauss played by Reiner or Karajan with anybody else. I'm not making any point here. Just listen and compare. Of course, there are exceptions. E.g. Glenn Gould (Mozart, Bach, etc), Kissin, Horovitz, Gilels (Beethoven, Chopin), Volodos (Liszt, Schubert). -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
And another thing... I'm no Buddhist, but lately I have been trying to think through a theory of what would constitute "mindful" listening. This isn't easy for me as I have trouble differentiating between "preference" and "judgment". When listening to music, I find that I have a hard time giving up certain personal preferences: I prefer to listen to musical performances that are contextually "in tune" and performed with good ensemble (i.e. "together") and with some transparency of texture (i.e so I can hear all the parts...I'm a "more is more" kind of guy) and that also possessing of some hard-to-quantify "other" element, which, for lack of a better term, I'll call "interpretation", and which, for me, I think is really about "coherency". My shorthand for this, and a term seemingly laden with judgment, is a "good" performance. So, given a "good" performance, isn't it my job, as a struggling-to-be-mindful listener, to try and strip away all the rest of my prejudices and expectations so as to bring "fresh ears" to the performance? And yet, isn't most western classical music all about the creation, denial and ultimate fulfillment of expectation? (E.g. Mozart "works" for us because he is so clever at setting up multiple layers of "ahas!" for us.) To me, this poses something of a paradox. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
I don't think you've misunderstood this at all. Yes, it's off topic, but I'll gladly pay the OT fine. EVERYBODY plays with a heavy musical accent (pun not intended.) It's call interpretation. With the exception of truly iconoclastic interpreters, interpretations tend to cluster together in groups of minimal variation. You could call them "dialects" or, less charitably, "fads." Its not surprising that this is so when you consider how musical pedagogy has worked in the 19th & 20th centuries. And again, it's not surprising that there would be a nationalistic element to this. But do you have to be Hungarian to be able to REALLY play Bartok? Or French to be able to REALLY play Satie? Of course not. If you did, then you'd have to be a, what -- 300 year old Lower Saxon to REALLY be able to play Bach. There is no REALLY right way, period. And then there is taste. And, as we all know, there is no arguing with taste, or about taste, if you prefer. Early Music practitioners gave up on the term "authentic" many years ago precisely because of this philosophic problem. The term of art these days is "Historically Informed Performance Practice" a.k.a. "HIP" performances...no more claims of "authenticity". I was in Budapest a few years ago and listened to a concert of baroque music performed by some of Hungary's best young string players. It was totally like getting caught in a time warp: they played like "modern" western European and good American ensembles used to play baroque music back in the 1960s: heavy vibrato, "terraced" dynamics, minimal rubato, no metric accent, etc. Not a "HIP" performance in the least. And yet I found the performance totally enjoyable. So, for me, the lesson is not only about the empathy and emotional connection between the musician and the music, but also about the empathy and emotional connection between the listener and the musician, too. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
jhm731;255829 Wrote: > I don't accept anyone's claims at face value, including yours. That's great!... so what are you going to do about it? You could test the claims yourself. You could learn a bit about the theory. You don't have to be in the dark wondering whom to "believe". > Assuming the Transporter is perfect, and can't be improved upon is just > as crazy as any audiophile joke. I have never said any such thing, and you're absolutely right, that would be a stupid thing to claim. What I'm telling you is that the mods in question are complete BS and I'm telling you why. What you may not know is that many of the ideas that went into Transporter came from other experts in the community who educated _me_ about this science. Now that Transporter is out, the bar has been raised much higher in terms of what needs to be done to take it a step further. However, if you read the forums carefully you will find a few posts where I have acknowledged several possible improvements worth trying. But hey, maybe I don't know my head from a hole in the wall if you think that's the case, go ahead and buy one of these modded TPs, and we can have a listen, see what's in it, and test their claims. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Using RG6 Satellite/Cable Coax for audio?
ar-t;255973 Wrote: > All RG-6 cables are made with copperweld, by definition. That is why > they are RG-6, and not RG-59, or something else. Period. > > > > That is because it is not an RG-6 cable! How hard is that to figure > out? > > > > > > > > for an alternative perspective... > > http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/rg6.htm -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Using RG6 Satellite/Cable Coax for audio?
ar-t;255973 Wrote: > All RG-6 cables are made with copperweld, by definition. That is why > they are RG-6, and not RG-59, or something else. Period. > >From http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/1694A.pdf : Belden Wrote: > > > 1694A Coax - Low Loss Serial Digital Coax > > Description: > RG-6/U Type, 18 AWG solid .040" bare copper conductor, gas-injected > foam HDPE insulation, Duofoil® + tinned copper braid shield (95% > coverage), PVC jacket. >From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-6, my bold): Wikipedia Wrote: > > > RG-6 > > RG-6/U is a common type of coaxial cable used in a wide variety of > residential and commercial applications. *The term "RG-6" itself is > quite generic and refers to a wide variety of cable designs*, which > differ from one another in shielding characteristics, *center conductor > composition*, and dielectric type. RG-6 was originally a military spec > where RG means Radio Guide, but is now obsolete; in practice, the term > "RG-6" is generally used to refer to coaxial cables with an 18 AWG > center conductor and 75 ohm characteristic impedance. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Using RG6 Satellite/Cable Coax for audio?
SuperQ;255690 Wrote: > Not all cables are made the same way. I'm sure some RG-6 cables are > crappy copper plated steel. All RG-6 cables are made with copperweld, by definition. That is why they are RG-6, and not RG-59, or something else. Period. SuperQ;255690 Wrote: > Blue jeans cables uses Belden 1694A for all kinds of stuff from analog > audio, to video, to spdif. The specs say 18 AWG solid copper. That is because it is not an RG-6 cable! How hard is that to figure out? Sean: We have found that cables with copperweld somehow don't sound as well as ones with pure copper. Even the ones with silver-plated copperweld. Yes, there are times when you need something like RG-179 or -187 for internal wiring. We cringe when we are forced into something like that. (And it does happen.re: SB2/3 mods.) When you don't have a choice, well, sometimes you have to do what you don't want to. When you have a choice, there are literally 100s of choices when it comes to 75 ohm cables that perform better. BTW, do you ever check your PMs? -- ar-t http://www.analogresearch-technology.net ar-t's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter playing 88 kHz files
Will the Duet play 88.2? -- avta avta's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
FWIW, I heard the Modwright TP at R. Mtn. Audiofest and thought it was awesome. Very different and in my opinion superior to the standard TP.But, then again, I like a warm tube sound. -- Shredder Shredder's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11380 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
Isn't this a question of empathy and emotional connection with the music? A Russian may be more connected with Russian music, but surely not only Russians can be excellent interpreters of Russian music? Or have I mis-understood this somewhat off-topic discussion :o\ -- morris_minor morris_minor's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
A question - though this is getting of topic: Would a person born in the Ukraine - of whom one parent isn't Russian/Ukrainian - be able to play Russian music properly? (I have many more: Coul he play German music? Is Mozart's music German music? Is Schubert's? Can a jew play Schubert properly? But I will settle with the one above...) -- marlowe marlowe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12398 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
gharris999;255826 Wrote: > You sound authoritative on this point. Are you Russian? Jewish? Both? > In this case it does not matter. I'm talking about another language. To simplify: you understand what musician A is playing about and you don't understand what musician B is playing about. I can't explain that, you have to listen by yourself. One correction: Russian speaking musicians studied in Russia. Another example: How would you sing in German (or Russian) if you don't speak German (or Russian)? I'm more than tolerant about speaking accents, but I think that accents are killing music. It can't be called a Chinese "interpretation" of Russian music played by American orchestra. It sounds the same as I would call my Chinese speaking (I know only "ni hao" in Chinese) my own interpretation of the Chinese language. While at the same time I absolutely adore Chinese guzheng played by a Chinese master. gharris999;255826 Wrote: > > But I'll take your advice and try to pick up some more recordings by > Kondrashin, Svetlanov and Rozhdestvensky. Thanks. Fedoseev, Pletnev, Gilels, Richter, Kissin, Volodos, Bashmet, Rostropovich (not as a conductor!) and the list goes on and on (in no particular order). -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
rajacat wrote: > If tubes are just a way of changing the tone and adding distortion , > would rolling capacitors just be performing the same function? Perhaps with a talented designer. But the usual RLC filter can't be as complex as a nice tube and big honking transformer. Tube amps have been well understood since the 1930s. Its easy to get "tube sound" from a tube amp, you can get the same sound from a solid state design, but not as easily. Sure, its 'possible' to make tubes sounds like transistors, and vice versa, but why bother? If you like tubes, get them. If you like solid state, get them. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
jhm731 wrote: > Assuming the Transporter is perfect, and can't be improved upon is just > as crazy as any audiophile joke. Sean didn't say the Transporter is perfect and can't be improved upon. He said it couldn't be done by merely adding components - it would take a complete re-design of the PCB. Please read more carefully. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
seanadams;255739 Wrote: > > Also, no amount of skill could convert Transporter's digital audio path > to 32-bit, unless you redesigned nearly the entire product from scratch. > I.e., it is utterly impossible to do it by soldering on some components, > regardless of skill level. I could not do it by swapping components, and > I have full source code to the entire system and know every proprietary > detail of the design. > I think the idea is to use something like a CS8421 and up-sample it to 32 bits, then feed it into AKM 32 bit dacs. At a technical level I have a preference for Anagram upsampling technology but I have an open mind. seanadams;255739 Wrote: > > Besides the fact, what benefit would it have? > The ear is a rather funny thing. You really need to suck it and see to find out. Some guys, for example, claim they can hear jitter below 2ps. I find that hard to believe, but am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. My greatest concern about such claims is if those that claim it are willing to subject it to a blind listening test. I generally discount those that wimp out on doing it. Thanks Bill -- bhobba bhobba's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14889 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 6moons preview ModWright Transporter
First I want to make it clear I am not a tube fan. To me it is fragile, expensive, old tech, whose day is long past. IMHO, equally good results can be achieved with solid state at a cheaper price. Pat Farrell;255799 Wrote: > seanadams wrote:[color=blue] > But tube gear does not reproduce what the signal is. > Very, very expensive tube gear can come close, but that is not what > tube gear fans want. They change the sound. > Tube gear can be designed to be as clean as solid state, and solid state gear can be designed to sound like tubes. Tubes are inherently more linear than solid state, so require less negative feedback for the same level of distortion. Negative feedback, while improving distortion, harms transient response. Many audiophiles (I am not one of them) prefer no feedback class A designs - tubes naturally lend themselves to such designs. Pat Farrell;255799 Wrote: > seanadams wrote:[color=blue] > Tubes are cool distortion and noise generators. Tubes are signal > changing devices. There is nothing wrong with liking them. > And solid state isn't? All components change a signal. Many in fact believe (guys like Frank Alstine) that hybrid circuits can be designed giving the best of both worlds. His take is the linearity and higher voltage of valves makes them great for input circuits, while the low output impedance of solid state makes them great for output circuits driving loads. Personally, I believe fully solid state circuits can in practice match valve, or valve hybrid circuits, - but technically he has a point - I just believe it is not worth the effort. Blind listening tests conducted by National Semiconductor showed it was rather difficult, (but probably not impossible), to beat a lm4562. I have no problem with guys attempting it - and yes if something sounds better is a personnel preference. Searching for the ultimate is what led National to develop the lm4562, which in blind listening tests, by all reports, usually does beat the previous workhorse - the 5534. Pat Farrell;255799 Wrote: > seanadams wrote:[color=blue] > Whether or not this is an "improvement" is a personal, subjective > decision. > Sure - but more than a preference for the 'distortion' of valves is the reason, otherwise we all would be listening to ultra low distortion amps with massive amounts of feedback that sucked the life out of music. Thanks Bill -- bhobba bhobba's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14889 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41756 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
