Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Shredder

I am not an engineer and do not know why different gear sounds good or
bad. I cannot predict from reading design specs whether a piece of gear
will sound good or not. I am just a huge music fan who has heard a lot
of good gear. To me, the MW mods are good; in fact it's the best kit in
my pretty nice system.

Give it a listen before you judge. I don't know how else one could
judge.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Timothy Stockman

Everyone focuses on the tubes, but doesn't the MW TP also use
transformers to couple the balanced output of the DAC chip to the
unbalanced tube stage?  Seems to me that a transformer potentially has
a bigger sonic footprint...  And a large possibility of magnetically
induced hum.

That said I've used signal transformers in a few strategic places when
I build audio equipment.  Typically Jensen parts.  But it has made me
aware of the advantages as well as the shortcomings of transformers.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread tomjtx

Shredder;267532 Wrote: 
> I spent months auditioning gear. Many DACs-Benchmark, Lavry, Musical
> Fidelity, Bel Canto, unmodded TP. Pres-MW9.0, Mac, Classe. All
> excellent. 
> 
> I chose the MW TP direct into my amps over the other options, ie nice
> Dac into nice pre, TP into nice pre, great Dac w/no pre.
> 
> You may disagree with my taste, but I didn't just just make this up or
> go on an on-line review. I did not just like it because it was
> expensive, because everything I auditioned was expensive and this was
> what I chose.
> 
> I have read many discussions on this forum in which modified Sbs or TPs
> were criticized. All, All, of the criticism, as far as I could tell came
> from people who head never heard the gear.
> 
> Give it a listen. I suspect most will like it. If not, you will be able
> to make an educated judgment.

I auditioned a full blown bolder SB and a modded TP in my home for
several weeks each  doing careful, level matched comparisons. So at
least some making comments have heard the other gear :-)

I stayed with the stock TP. The other gear was not an improvement to my
ears.

I haven't heard the Modwright . Dan has a great rep and I suspect it
sounds quite good. Whether or not one prefers it to the stock would
likely boil down to personal preference.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread GuyDebord

Shredder;267532 Wrote: 
> I spent months auditioning gear. Many DACs-Benchmark, Lavry, Musical
> Fidelity, Bel Canto, unmodded TP. Pres-MW9.0, Mac, Classe. All
> excellent. 
> 
> I chose the MW TP direct into my amps over the other options, ie nice
> Dac into nice pre, TP into nice pre, great Dac w/no pre.
> 
> You may disagree with my taste, but I didn't just just make this up or
> go on an on-line review. I did not just like it because it was
> expensive, because everything I auditioned was expensive and this was
> what I chose.
> 
> I have read many discussions on this forum in which modified Sbs or TPs
> were criticized. All, All, of the criticism, as far as I could tell came
> from people who head never heard the gear.
> 
> Give it a listen. I suspect most will like it. If not, you will be able
> to make an educated judgment.

hey, i dont argue with your right to spend your money and defend your
investment... but seriously, only adding such an unsophisticated tube
stage cannot compare to the built and sophisticated standards of a lot
of the factory built equipment you say you auditioned. Just the
specially made power supply of many of this devices (something that
your tube stage doesnt have) makes me read the modright thing as
gimmicky only


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Shredder

I spent months auditioning gear. Many DACs-Benchmark, Lavry, Musical
Fidelity, Bel Canto, unmodded TP. Pres-MW9.0, Mac, Classe. All
excellent. 

I chose the MW TP direct into my amps over the other options, ie nice
Dac into nice pre, TP into nice pre, great Dac w/no pre.

You may disagree with my taste, but I didn't just just make this up or
go on an on-line review. I did not just like it because it was
expensive, because everything I auditioned was expensive and this was
what I chose.

I have read many discussions on this forum in which modified Sbs or TPs
were criticized. All, All, of the criticism, as far as I could tell came
from people who head never heard the gear.

Give it a listen. I suspect most will like it. If not, you will be able
to make an educated judgment.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread GuyDebord

Shredder;267525 Wrote: 
> This is silly. I heard it before I bought it. I also heard various
> alternatives, such as the super nice tube pres I described. 
> 
> Has anyone w/ a negative judgment on the MW TP actually heard one? I
> don't think so.

what else did you tried worth 2000? just curious... only tube stages or
also other things like dacs, world clocks, cables, power
conditioners 

what difference were you trying to get?


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Transporter, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLR’s. POWER: Isotek
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Shredder

This is silly. I heard it before I bought it. I also heard various
alternatives, such as the super nice tube pres I described. 

Has anyone w/ a negative judgment on the MW TP actually heard one? I
don't think so.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread GuyDebord

2000 dollars for a seemingly simple tube mod? that makes the tp rig
4000, its clear why it sounds better to its owners


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Transporter, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLR’s. POWER: Isotek
MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Shredder

FWIW, I, too, own a MW TP. The TP is great, but i have never been
happier w/ a piece of audio gear than the MW TP. As has often been
described on this forum the TP can be a tad cold and analytical.
However, w/the modded MW TP, anything other than terribly recorded
music sounds absolutely live. Vocals and many instruments have a
presence and weight that suggest a musician(s) in my room. Needs to be
heard to be judged.

I disagree that a tube buffer or pre will provede the same sound. I
have heard the TP through very nice Mac tube amps and even a MW 9.0
tube pre; they sound good, but not as goos at the modded TP.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Phil Leigh

Since you have no idea what "truth" is (unless you were actually in the
studio making the recording) , perhaps you better confine your comments
to beauty.
Adding a valve buffer stage - MF, or Modwright or whatever - makes
things sound "nice". It's not "fake", its simply personal preference.
Oh  - and if balanced interconnects make "all the difference" in your
system, you need to sort some basics out first IMHO.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread GuyDebord

tomjtx;267439 Wrote: 
> You could have gotten the same result feeding transporter through a tube
> preamp or buffer.
> 
> I love tubes also but it is a shame you wasted that money when you
> could have gotten the same results for a fraction of the price.
> 
> It is getting a bit tiresome listening  to  talk about the illusory
> "improvements"  modded TP's make posted ,IMO, rudely. on the slim
> forums.
> Modwright has it's own forum for that.

Couldnt agree more. but out of curiosity, I would like to know what
equipment is HalleysComet using with the transporter. I use my
transporter with an integrated tube linestage and the sound is sooo
musical, even without the tube linestage the transporter was never
digitally bright or edgy, it was always very lively and warm tonality.
So yes, this modded stuff just doesnt make sense to me, im sure you can
do much better by buying a pair of good balanced interconnects.


-- 
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SQ preamp, link: WireWorld SilverEclipse 5.2. DIGITAL: SlimDevices
Transporter, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLR’s. POWER: Isotek
MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread HalleysComet

Apparition;267456 Wrote: 
> OK... just to clarify, I really am just looking for an explanation (this
> isn't a veiled attack on tubes or whatever). So: why would you get a
> different result doing the modwright rather than using a tubed amp? I
> don't get it--isnt the alleged virtue of both "warmth" or "musicality"?
> Color me confused.

Yup, this is where one moves between science and religion!  

But maybe there's some common ground here.  I think the issues are
around the small-signal amplification by op-amp, and the power supply
for that stage.  If I understand correctly, this is where Dan focused
his attention.

As far as I can tell (not being an engineer) the stock stage represents
"best practices" for today's players, taking the output of the DAC and
creating a stable amplified signal for the subsequent amplifier (or
preamp).  I think Sean did a spectacular job with this circuit.  It's
truly clean sounding, based on my few weeks listening to the stock
unit.  It doesn't lack warmth.  it doesn't impart any false sense of
precision, yet all the detail is there.  Nice work!

So what's missing?  Well, I don't have the language for it, but I think
it might be described as a sense of "real-ness" or palpability.  I
wouldn't know how to begin to measure such a thing.  Maybe like
pornography -- we know it when we see it?

I don't think this is a function specifically of tubes, or not.  I've
got a solid-state phono stage (Klyne) which is particularly good at
rendering this from LP's, via extremely small signals from a phono
cartridge.  And my amplifiers are solid state Innersound ESL, feeding
electrostatic speakers, which are supremely clear sounding.  High
resolution system, not biased inherently to mushy tube warmth.

Anyway, I found fault with the Transporter for its lack of this
characteristic, compared to my current CD player.  I actually preferred
a Bolder-modified Squeezebox to the Transporter.  That unit belongs to a
friend of mine who got me onto the whole computer-based audio trend (I
was happily mostly listening to LP's before that).  I was disappointed,
because I consider the Transporter to have much better technology.  And
the Transporter is such a cool thing, I really wanted it to work in my
system.

So I tried a number of things, including inserting a tube preamp
(either an Audible Illusions M3a or a Mapletree Ultra4), and a Musical
Fidelity XDac which is a tube buffer.  In the latter case, I felt that
there was a false sense of "warmth" that seemed to me to be euphonic
and "phony."  the Mapletree sounded "nice" as in listenable, but I lost
a lot of detail.  And the Audible Illusions also tends to the warmth
side of the equation.  Just sticking some tubes into the audio chain
wasn't the solution.

That's when I heard that Dan was modifying it.  Since I have had a long
experience with some of Dan's gear, I thought it was worth a try, or
maybe I was just throwing more money at the problem?  It seemed like a
big risk, but I'm happy to report it is working out for me.

I love the Transporter.  I'm sure others who have tried it and have
found it wanting might be interested in this experience, so I wanted to
share, not because I'm such a smart guy -I'm not -- but trying to be
helpful.  I'm getting a lot of joy out of it and it's nice to share...

Frank


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread tomjtx

adamslim;267460 Wrote: 
> The Modwright mod (AFAIK) leaves everything up to DAC the same, but then
> adds a valve output stage (replacing that in the TP), which is similar
> to an amplifier.  If you contend that valve amplifiers can be superior
> to transistors, than this could address an area of the TP that might be
> improvable.
> 
> I can't comment as to the efficacy as I have never heard it, but given
> the dollar rate I reckon I might be able to import one direct and make
> only a small loss on resale.  However, I've just bought speakers, so
> it'll be a while before I play that game!

I think you are correct about the modwright mod, Adam, which is why I
think a tube buffer could likely provide the same result at a lower
cost.

Patrick, I see the validity of your reasoning, I will once again plead
crankiness brought on by the cold from hell :-)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Patrick Dixon

I can't see that Logitech would mind much about the Modwright TP.  They
get to sell a TP anyway, so from a business PTV, they make the same
profit.

I suppose Sean might mind that someone thinks they can improve on his
design, but I reckon he's pretty pragmatic about these things.


-- 
Patrick Dixon

www.at-tunes.co.uk

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread adamslim

The Modwright mod (AFAIK) leaves everything up to DAC the same, but then
adds a valve output stage (replacing that in the TP), which is similar
to an amplifier.  If you contend that valve amplifiers can be superior
to transistors, than this could address an area of the TP that might be
improvable.

I can't comment as to the efficacy as I have never heard it, but given
the dollar rate I reckon I might be able to import one direct and make
only a small loss on resale.  However, I've just bought speakers, so
it'll be a while before I play that game!


-- 
adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff
SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread tomjtx

adamslim;267440 Wrote: 
> You could have gotten a better result by not posting.

Now now, Adam, I should be allowed a few cranky posts per month :-)

Seriously though, I would never post on the Modwright forum about what
a waste it is to mod the TP.
I would consider that rude and unnecessary behavior.

It seems we disagree on that point and that's OK by me.

To the OP, you can get the sonic signature of tubes with a buffer or
preamp.
And, IMO , the results will be nearly identical. However, we can just
agree to disagree.

I had the chance to be the first to get the modwright mod at half price
as the experimental unit.
I decided not to because the TP sounds so good it didn't seem worth the
money even at 1/2 price.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread Apparition

HalleysComet;267451 Wrote: 
> I've previously purchased Dan Wright's modified Perpetual Technologies
> P3A DAC and was very pleased with the result (no tubes!).
> 
> Frankly, I WAS concerned that this was a "waste of money" but being an
> audiophile, I've spent money foolishly in the past ;-) so I know what
> that feels like! 
> 
> Turns out, Dan's approach made a piece of gear that I didn't want to
> spend my time listening to into a piece of gear that I spend all my
> time listening to.  That's worth it to me.  I have four different audio
> systems in my home, including a system in the bedroom, living room, home
> theatre, and my music room.  The last is where I do my serious
> listening, and the MW Transporter has taken up home there.
> 
> And for another poster, no, you can't get the same result running thru
> a tube buffer.  BTDT.  But spending money and results are two different
> things (unfortunately).  In this instance, I got results that were worth
> it to me, so I consider it a good investment in my musical pleasure.  I
> probably spend $6-7,000 per year on this hobby --mostly for music and
> concert tickets/travel -- so it wasn't THAT big a deal for me
> money-wise.  But it certainly hits my hot buttons.
> 
> I've never been thrilled with digital music, partly because I'm an old
> fart with nearly 2,000 LP's, so that's the bulk of my listening.  But
> I'm impressed that the Transporter does so well, and I do think the
> Modwright approach, which modifies none of the "front end" but only
> addresses limitations in the analogue stage, is a net improvement.
> 
> Use your own ears, then let me know what you think?
> 
> Frank

OK... just to clarify, I really am just looking for an explanation
(this isn't a veiled attack on tubes or whatever). So: why would you
get a different result doing the modwright rather than using a tubed
amp? I don't get it--isnt the alleged virtue of both "warmth" or
"musicality"? Color me confused.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread HalleysComet

adamslim;267438 Wrote: 
> Thanks for sharing (does that sound like an AA comment? ;) ).  Out of
> interest, why did you go for the Modwright over other modders?

I've previously purchased Dan Wright's modified Perpetual Technologies
P3A DAC and was very pleased with the result (no tubes!).

Frankly, I WAS concerned that this was a "waste of money" but being an
audiophile, I've spent money foolishly in the past ;-) so I know what
that feels like! 

Turns out, Dan's approach made a piece of gear that I didn't want to
spend my time listening to into a piece of gear that I spend all my
time listening to.  That's worth it to me.  I have four different audio
systems in my home, including a system in the bedroom, living room, home
theatre, and my music room.  The last is where I do my serious
listening, and the MW Transporter has taken up home there.

And for another poster, no, you can't get the same result running thru
a tube buffer.  BTDT.  But spending money and results are two different
things (unfortunately).  In this instance, I got results that were worth
it to me, so I consider it a good investment in my musical pleasure.  I
probably spend $6-7,000 per year on this hobby --mostly for music and
concert tickets/travel -- so it wasn't THAT big a deal for me
money-wise.  But it certainly hits my hot buttons.

I've never been thrilled with digital music, partly because I'm an old
fart with nearly 2,000 LP's, so that's the bulk of my listening.  But
I'm impressed that the Transporter does so well, and I do think the
Modwright approach, which modifies none of the "front end" but only
addresses limitations in the analogue stage, is a net improvement.

Use your own ears, then let me know what you think?

Frank


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread adamslim

tomjtx;267439 Wrote: 
> You could have gotten the same result feeding transporter through a tube
> preamp or buffer.
> 
> I love tubes also but it is a shame you wasted that money when you
> could have gotten the same results for a fraction of the price.
> 
> It is getting a bit tiresome listening  to  talk about the illusory
> "improvements"  modded TP's make posted ,IMO, rudely. on the slim
> forums.
> Modwright has it's own forum for that.

You could have gotten a better result by not posting.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread tomjtx

You could have gotten the same result feeding transporter through a tube
preamp or buffer.

I love tubes also but it is a shame you wasted that money when you
could have gotten the same results for a fraction of the price.

It is getting a bit tiresome listening  to  talk about the illusory
"improvements"  modded TP's make posted ,IMO, rudely. on the slim
forums.
Modwright has it's own forum for that.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread adamslim

Thanks for sharing (does that sound like an AA comment? ;) ).  Out of
interest, why did you go for the Modwright over other modders?


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others

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SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-02-09 Thread HalleysComet

I have recently upgraded my Transporter by having Dan Wright at
Modwright replace the output (analog) section with his tube-rectified,
output modification.  I thought it might be useful to discuss my
experience with those who have not yet had the chance to hear this unit
compared to the original Transporter.

I had purchased the Transporter and was thrilled with the additional
control and access I now had to my music collection (ripped to FLAC). 
But in comparison to my moderately expensive Musical Fidelity A5 CD
player, I was disappointed in the sound quality.  [NB:  in Audiophool
terms, is $2500 moderately expensive?]  

I felt that the sound quality, while pristine and accurate, lacked the
"breath of life" that I cherish in my music.  I go to an average of 2
concerts a month, so I'm intimately familiar with the sound of live
music, and the Transporter didn't deliver it for me.  I was going to
return the Transporter at the end of the trial period, but then I
decided to use my Christmas Bonus to do the ModWright thing.

I suppose this comes down to the classic "truth vs. beauty" argument. 
I think Sean Adams would argue that adding tubes (an antediluvian
technology) merely adds a pleasant distortion, but that it does not
reflect the true content of the original recording.  I beg to differ. 
I think the addition of the tube stage has recreated MORE of the
original musical experience.  I don't think this can be explained in
terms of 2nd harmonic distortion.  My experience is that the ModWright
Transporter now has the essence of the experience that it lacked
before.  

For instance, I'm listening at this moment to Putamayo's "Women of
Spirit." This is a fantastic album, if you're into female vocalists. 
Anyway, I've heard both Cassandra Wilson and Ani DiFranco in concert,
and the tonality and flavor of the music through the ModWright is
"right on!"  {said with an ex-hippie fist raised in the air}.  This
same album played before with the Transporter was impressive in its
detail retrieval, but I didn't have the impression of real live
singers, sharing an emotional experience with me.

And to me, music is all about emotion, and not much about left-brain
rational exposition.  I don't want to think about my music, I want to
FEEL it!  I am now "Transported" and that's a good thing.  So if your
Transporter leaves you cold (as mine did), there is an alternative out
there which IMHO is a real improvement over the already-excellent
original.

Hope this helps rescue someone else from Transporter let-down

Frank


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