[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A little light relief...
I rarely get to see/hear serious audiophile setups but this evening I was at a party in NYC and the hosts had some pretty serious kit, I thought you folks might help me identify some of the stuff and give me an idea of how it ranks? Feel free to flame :) Apparently the man of the house reviews for one of the audio magazines so I have no idea if what I saw was his own rig or review gear. Anyway...the main stuff appeared to be the Behold range (http://www.behold.eu/page.php?en10) - specifically the APU768, BPA768-484-B & CDP. The speakers are a little more mysterious. I should have taken a photo but felt a little weird doing so, but I'm pretty sure the name on the front said Spectral Cables. But they seem to only make cables, not speakers, so I've no idea who made them. They were probably 5-6ft tall, 1ft wide and 2 deep, finished in piano black. There was what looked like a huge front facing bass port at ear level (basically just a giant tube with I guess a cone at the back but I could hardly see) and some smaller ones further down, and a small metal tweeter high up on top. Any ideas? I'm curious as to what the hell they were. As for sound, it was not a good environment for listening, but they were sure loud! One thing that disappointed me was that with all the amazing equipment the actual source in use tonight was the line out jack of a laptop! I need to get a TP into that place... -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49250 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] dCS Elgar and Verona with SD Transporter
The first Verdi which upsampled was the Verdi la Scala. When I was in communication with dCS in England, they also referred to the Verdi Encore: an upsampling Verdi with digital inputs. At the time I couldn't see why I would want one and it cost extra, so I didn't follow it up. -- Ciaran Ciaran's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18300 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49133 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] dCS Elgar and Verona with SD Transporter
My setup includes a DCS Verdi transport, Purcell upsampler, Elgar Plus DAC and a Verona clock. All the units are connected to the Verona clock and my plan is to connect the TP to the Verona clock, this seems to make sence. Also after talking to the Tech at Audiophile Systems, the distributor of DCS in the USA, He is using the SPDIF output of his server to the input of the Purcell to upsample the server to DSD. This is a real plus to individuals who own the Purcell and older Verdi vs the newer Verdi with the upsampler built in. The newer Verdi's don't have an input to upsample. Rick -- Topanga Topanga's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18351 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49133 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
read this: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/ADC_Paper_v1.1.pdf Clive's point is correct about ADC's running (internally) at high sampling rates. Prior to the modern ADC chip, an analogue filter is always used to roll-off extreme high frequencies. This is benign because it is simple & gently sloped - as per your quote - and operating at nowhere near the Nyquist frequency for 44.1. It will NOT alias down into the audio region. Writing out the data from the ADC at 44.1 or 88.2 or whatever doesn't "lose" this benefit. Also, by upsampling within the DAC, the same problem is avoided on replay. You don't need to store the data in a high res format. 44.1/24 is fine for holding the audio data IMHO. What matters is what the ADC's and DAC's do. I strongly believe this is why cast-iron examples of clear audible benefits or problems related to sampling frequency >44.1 are few and far between... And also why SACD and DCD-A weren't the success they were expected to be. YMMV -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
cliveb wrote: > Nobody uses analogue filters at 22.05kHz during A/D these days. Because all those brickwall filters were evil, EVIL. They completely screwed up the phase down into 10kHz. Maybe way lower. Too evil to think about using. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
mvalera;314923 Wrote: > audible garbage due to the downsampling. I think the phrase you're looking for is aliasing artefacts ;) -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
I've never tried it, but I believe in a conversation I had with Sean he said there was audible garbage due to the downsampling. The downsampling is only there so you can hear... something. Officially 24/96 is NOT supported by the Squeezebox line. Mike -- mvalera Michael Valera Online Communities Manager Logitech Streaming Media Business Unit slimdevices.com mvalera's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11086 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Rodney_Gold;314908 Wrote: > Well , to my knowledge it has to be a brickwall filter at 22.5khz , I > cant see how it can be benign Nobody uses analogue filters at 22.05kHz during A/D these days. All ADCs sample at quite high rates precisely so the anti-aliasing filter can run at high frequencies, well away from the audible range. Then a digital filter with much better phase accuracy can be used when downsampling to 44.1kHz. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Well , to my knowledge it has to be a brickwall filter at 22.5khz , I cant see how it can be benign , it surely has to affect frequencies in the audible spectrum to some extent as per ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/192a/Sampling.pdf Anti-Alias Filters: In order to prevent aliasing, we must remove any frequencies above half the sampling rate fromthe signal. This is done by filtering the signal. Since we want 20 kHz frequencies to be reproduced,we must filter very sharply above this frequency. Unfortunately, a simple filter cannot remove frequencies near to the 20 kHz cutoff very well. We must use a very sharp, complicated filter to remove the unwanted frequencies without also losing some frequencies inside the audio bandwidth. These filters are known as brick-wall filters because they cut off so rapidly above their corner frequency. It is not unusual to find 12 pole filters employed as anti-aliasing filters. As you might imagine, the design of these critical filters is very complicated. It is not possible to filter a signal so heavily without making some changes to the signal which is passed through. Often, the transient response suffers audibly as the complex filter responds to the driving signal. These filters are responsible for much of the criticism of digital audio, especially for the socalled harshness of early digital recorders. In recent years, the speed of computer chips has increased to the point where sophisticated mathematical processes can be applied to digitized signals which remove the unwanted frequencies from the signal after it is digitized, reducing the need for sharp analog filters. These procedures come under the heading of oversampling, a technique which allows high-speed sampling without increasing the amount of data to be stored. Even in these systems some analog filtering is still required, but simple filters with just a few poles are used, thereby reducing the deleterious effects of brick-wall filters. And as sample rates extend to 96 kHz and even 192 kHz, the requirement for analog filters is further relaxed. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's "The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop" Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Rodney_Gold;314884 Wrote: > Surely there is also a filter implemented in the AD processor , to cut > any frequencys above 1/2 the sampling rate? yes but as this is a (relatively benign) high-order analogue filter that is merely removing high frequencies prior to the ADC itself, it isn't going to cause the aliasing-down problem -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Pale Blue Ego wrote: > Isn't the > current SB3/SBR limitation only due to CPU or buffer memory limits? perhaps both, Sean said CPU cycles aren't there. faster/wider takes more memory and cpu even if the DAC can handle it. Given the tremendous pressure on keeping prices down, its not at all clear to me that there is any justification. It adds cost which raise selling price, and there is no mass market source to use it, so its impossible to argue that the additional costs will make the unit sell better. In the Transporter, they have a different market, but the Receiver and SB are mass market products. Price is king. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Surely there is also a filter implemented in the AD processor , to cut any frequencys above 1/2 the sampling rate? -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's "The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop" Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
adamslim;314776 Wrote: > I think it's highly unlikely that it will ever support 24/96. SD > designed the TP for audiophiles who wanted that kind of thing - I can't > even see why they would want to put into their cheapest product. Because most audio chips already handle 24/96, there's no reason for Slim mot to feature it in a future low-priced player. Isn't the current SB3/SBR limitation only due to CPU or buffer memory limits? -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Rodney_Gold;314859 Wrote: > I was under the impression that High sample rate recording is not to > preserve inaudible sonics , its so that anti aliasing filters are much > higher up in the freq scale and thus dont impact or lessen the impact > at audible frequencies? if you are talking about the DAC filter...true - which is the only plausible benefit of upsampling - which you can do with a 44.1 file. My DAC upsamples internally to 384Khz for this reason. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
I was under the impression that High sample rate recording is not to preserve inaudible sonics , its so that anti aliasing filters are much higher up in the freq scale and thus dont impact or lessen the impact at audible frequencies? -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's "The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop" Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
pfarrell;314840 Wrote: > Phil Leigh wrote: > > There is little to be recorded at 20khz never mind 24... in the past > > very very few tape machines (or tapes) could get flat past > 22khz...and > > the mics were rolling off there as well. Modern mics and digital > > recorders can go much higher... > > I'm not sure what you mean by "modern mics". But the classic mics, > Neumann U87, RCA 44, etc. roll off below 20kHz. If you look at the > chart > from any serious mic, the start rolling off in the 15kHz to 18kHz > range. > > You really don't want to record the white noise of cymbals, which is > about all that's up there. > > There have been a number of "digital mics" released recently. Too many > in my view. They just are a regular mic with a ADC in the housing. > Which > means you are "stuck" with whatever ADC they put in it at the time. > I'm > a lot happier with regular mics, and I can change ADCs whenever I > want. > > -- > Pat Farrell > http://www.pfarrell.com/ Pat, I was thinking of some of the large "solid state" diaphragm Beyers (740) and AKG's - they could get up there on a good day as could most decent electrets. Valve Neumanns and AKG's probably rolled off at 17/18 or earlier as you say. Digital mikes! - yeauch! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Shopper connects to Jesus via Denon link cable
Nonreality;314779 Wrote: > Are you saying that these reviews are making suckers part with their > money faster? You have to be kidding. I would think that anyone that > was considering getting one is probably looking in a different > direction. Oh and I do know some will buy them regardless. It makes it more visible, that is all they need. Pseudo science will spread slowly, someone will post on some biased forum that it sounds better and others will confirm. (if you want examples I can link it, they are buying expensive USB cables already) How many times did you read about funny power cable claims. That didn't stop me from buying them. Now I regret it after waking up from that belief but it is too late. Even back then I knew that there wasn't a scientific explanation (other than maybe a placebo effect) but that does not matter when you hear the difference. Blind tests are the only cure. But it is difficult to do properly and not everyone allows themselves to think that there is a possibility that what they hear is not actually happening. -- nuhi nuhi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10571 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49187 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How to lower output level DAC the audiophile way.
I solved my "problem" with an attenuator made with 2 resistors. I didn't know that this does not affect the sound. Thank you all for your thoughts. -- Amauta SlimServer 6.3.1 on Celeron 1400MHz/256MB Clarkconnect headless pc. 2x SB2. Amauta's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2669 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49202 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Phil Leigh wrote: > There is little to be recorded at 20khz never mind 24... in the past > very very few tape machines (or tapes) could get flat past 22khz...and > the mics were rolling off there as well. Modern mics and digital > recorders can go much higher... I'm not sure what you mean by "modern mics". But the classic mics, Neumann U87, RCA 44, etc. roll off below 20kHz. If you look at the chart from any serious mic, the start rolling off in the 15kHz to 18kHz range. You really don't want to record the white noise of cymbals, which is about all that's up there. There have been a number of "digital mics" released recently. Too many in my view. They just are a regular mic with a ADC in the housing. Which means you are "stuck" with whatever ADC they put in it at the time. I'm a lot happier with regular mics, and I can change ADCs whenever I want. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
cliveb;314821 Wrote: > My point wasn't whether stuff up above 20kHz is audible. Rather it is > that if you downsample without pre-filtering, then anything that was > present in the original at a frequency above the Nyquist rate for the > new sample rate will be aliased down into the audible range. For > example: if you downsample from 96kHz to 48kHz without filtering, then > if there was something at 35kHz in the original, it'll end up at 13kHz > in the downsampled version. Surely nobody would deny that this might be > audible. > > So the fact that the OP doesn't hear any nasties as a result of the > SB3's improper downsampling would seem to suggest that there was so > little content at those high frequencies that it was pointless using > 96kHz in the first place. > > There seems to be a growing dogma that high sample rates are > worthwhile. The existence of upsampling converters (eg. from the likes > of dCS) only serves to reinforce this (probably mistaken) belief. We're > now at the stage where anyone who wants to claim they are providing high > quality downloads is almost obliged to make them at least 88.2kHz. All > this achieves is to double the bandwidth required to download the damn > things. Clive - I do understand the Nyquist issue. The thing is there is unlikely to be much above 20Khz of any significant level (and so even if it was forced down into the audible range you still wouldn't hear it) on any recordings - and yes I do think that the value of recording at higher sampling frequencies is unproven. 24-bit on the other hand (or at least 20-bit) should have been mandatory from the outset. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
Phil Leigh;314785 Wrote: > Modern mics and digital recorders can go much higher...but there's just > harmonics from cymbals, brass and stuff up there...and we won't hear it > anyway. > > 48/24 sounds great on the Linn masters. To me they sound no different > to the 88.2 version. My point wasn't whether stuff up above 20kHz is audible. Rather it is that if you downsample without pre-filtering, then anything that was present in the original at a frequency above the Nyquist rate for the new sample rate will be aliased down into the audible range. For example: if you downsample from 96kHz to 48kHz without filtering, then if there was something at 35kHz in the original, it'll end up at 13kHz in the downsampled version. Surely nobody would deny that this might be audible. So the fact that the OP doesn't hear any nasties as a result of the SB3's improper downsampling would seem to suggest that there was so little content at those high frequencies that it was pointless using 96kHz in the first place. There seems to be a growing dogma that high sample rates are worthwhile. The existence of upsampling converters (eg. from the likes of dCS) only serves to reinforce this (probably mistaken) belief. We're now at the stage where anyone who wants to claim they are providing high quality downloads is almost obliged to make them at least 88.2kHz. All this achieves is to double the bandwidth required to download the damn things. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
slimkid;314810 Wrote: > Well, I ... kind of. > > When I was playing with 24/96, it happened that sometimes SB would play > 96 fine and sometimes it would have loud clicks and cracks (similar to > what you hear from CD player when CD is damaged or from up sampling DAC > when fed with the sample rate that is not supported). I could not > establish a pattern. It happened on a couple of tracks (one of them > being Stravinsky's 'Solder's Story'), download links published at this > site a while ago. > > K Not sure what was going on there! But the other tracks - how did they sound to you? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
Phil Leigh;314807 Wrote: > I have yet to hear of anyone who can aurally distinguish between the > "discard every other sample" method used by the SB and using (say) > Audacity to downsample with a "proper" algorithm. > Anyone disagree? Well, I ... kind of. When I was playing with 24/96, it happened that sometimes SB would play 96 fine and sometimes it would have loud clicks and cracks (similar to what you hear from CD player when CD is damaged or from up sampling DAC when fed with the sample rate that is not supported). I could not establish a pattern. It happened on a couple of tracks (one of them being Stravinsky's 'Solder's Story'), download links published at this site a while ago. K -- slimkid Where does the light go when you turn the switch off? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iAj2aPdQnk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvMNuuFSvN0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDRhRv4q_SI http://youtube.com/watch?v=nlrpe8Ig5m8 http://youtube.com/watch?v=dC9tGlwPln8 slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
I have yet to hear of anyone who can aurally distinguish between the "discard every other sample" method used by the SB and using (say) Audacity to downsample with a "proper" algorithm. Anyone disagree? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
Ha! What an excellent bit of lateral thinking! Why didn't I think of that? Many thanks. -- pieronip pieronip's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7653 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
Given that disc space is cheap, I would opt for keeping the hi-res files outside your main music library, and using Foobar to perform a once only downsample as a copy of the original file which you put in your music library. That way you keep the load on the server to a minimum, with no on-the-fly conversion to be done. -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
Hi Apologies (and let me know) if this is the wrong area for this question. I understand the the SB3 does not really handle 24/96 properly but just drops every second sample at the SB3 to get a somewhat butchered 48 KHz stream. I also understand (I think) that for better fidelity one can do proper downsampling on the server PC, prior to streaming the music, by making changes to 'convert.conf'. Is there a definitive guide or can someone give me step-by-step instruction about how to do this? Much obliged! -- pieronip pieronip's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7653 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
cliveb;314781 Wrote: > Others have already pointed out the various limitations in sample rate > support on the SBR. > > But the subtext of the original post is rather more interesting. What's > being said here is that a system with dCS gear (ie. state of the art) > does NOT expose the fact that the SB3's downsampling is intrinsically > flawed. Basically, the SB3 simply throws away every other sample > without performing the necessary filtering first. This will produce > aliasing, and if anything is going to make it audble, a dCS setup > should. And yet the OP says that this sounds great. > > It strikes me this implies that the Linn 24/96 files have little or no > content above 24kHz in the first place. So why bother doubling the size > of the files? Linn are not in the habit of specmanship for its own sake. Indeed your final point is true - they are not into specs. There is little to be recorded at 20khz never mind 24... in the past very very few tape machines (or tapes) could get flat past 22khz...and the mics were rolling off there as well. Modern mics and digital recorders can go much higher...but there's just harmonics from cymbals, brass and stuff up there...and we won't hear it anyway. 48/24 sounds great on the Linn masters. To me they sound no different to the 88.2 version. I've personally yet to hear any difference between (the same original master) at 48/24 vs 88.2/24 or 96/24 I have needle-drops and stereo track masters done myself at 96, 88.2 and 48 (all 24 bit) and i cant distinguish them. YMMV -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How to lower output level DAC the audiophile way.
There is/was a version of the DAC-AH which had an op-amp output stage. You can achieve a useful increase in fidelity and a significant reduction in output level by removing the op-amps amd related power decoupling components and taking the output directly from the I/V resistor via high quality capacitors. I found no bass loss by using 4.7 uF polyprops but a pair of BG NX of larger size would also be a good solution. Cheers -- pieronip pieronip's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7653 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49202 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sometimes I really don't get it!
Phil Leigh;314660 Wrote: > PC's use heavy duty switching supplies that are NOT designed for audio > niceness. They are designed to be cheap and powerful. It is possible > that your mains filtering is having trouble dealing with this (or it > could be airborne EMI that your filters wont touch anyway). Now that the likes of Linn and Naim have joined the computer-based music scene, it can't be too long before "audiophile" linear PSUs for computers are brought out (at suitably silly prices, of course). -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49190 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
tobyjug;314736 Wrote: > Does anyone know if Logitech will be releasing a receiver with up to > 96khz on the digital output. I have some Linn files that are 24/96 and > the SB3 is downsampling them to 24/48 which going through the dCS > Purcell (upsampling to 192) and Delius sound extreamly good. Very > detailed, warm and very listenable. Others have already pointed out the various limitations in sample rate support on the SBR. But the subtext of the original post is rather more interesting. What's being said here is that a system with dCS gear (ie. state of the art) does NOT expose the fact that the SB3's downsampling is intrinsically flawed. Basically, the SB3 simply throws away every other sample without performing the necessary filtering first. This will produce aliasing, and if anything is going to make it audble, a dCS setup should. And yet the OP says that this sounds great. It strikes me this implies that the Linn 24/96 files have little or no content above 24kHz in the first place. So why bother doubling the size of the files? Linn are not in the habit of specmanship for its own sake. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Shopper connects to Jesus via Denon link cable
nuhi;314567 Wrote: > I am interested how much did they sell because of this much publicity. > > Audible tests of any cable, be it even analog, showed that there is no > difference but still people buy them and this one won't be any > different, you are just making them a favor. Are you saying that these reviews are making suckers part with their money faster? You have to be kidding. I would think that anyone that was considering getting one is probably looking in a different direction. Oh and I do know some will buy them regardless. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49187 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Receiver with 96kHz output
tobyjug;314736 Wrote: > I know the transporter outputs at 96 but it would be a waste of money > when I have the dCS kit any I haven't got any where near that kind of > money. Wow - the TP is too expensive compared to your dCS kit? You steal it? ;) The Receiver is very similar to the SB3; I think it's highly unlikely that it will ever support 24/96. SD designed the TP for audiophiles who wanted that kind of thing - I can't even see why they would want to put into their cheapest product. I reckon you might do best to sell the Purcell and buy a TP, slave it to the Delius. I've always found that upsampling gives an artificial kind of air/space/detail, TBH. YMMV. -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49210 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
