Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
mvalera;316337 Wrote: > > Again we have qualified engineers that know how to treat a signal from > end to end in our designs... I think you can draw a conclusion about > what I am saying about some of the other less expensive DAC boxes that > were recommended earlier in this thread. > > You're better off spending that money on better speakers. So you're implying the makers of those DACs don't know what they are doing, essentially, or at least as much as your engineers. Not sure how you can conclude this, and I already have several sets of very nice speakers (Sonus Faber, Rega etc) and with any one them, the DAC in the humble Beresford is noticeably a better sound than the analogue out from the DAC in either my SB2 or my three SB3s. The evidence implies to me you're wrong about this. I imagine the Benchmark is better again, but there's simply no question the Beresford is a humbly priced improvement to the SB system. Why knock it if you haven't tried it? It's jsut another engineer in a room trying to make a decent product, much like Sean was those years ago. No reason to think this guy is any worse or different...and I *love* the squeezeboxes, but I definitely was disappointed in the analogue out when I bought my first one compared to my Nakamichi CD player. Once I popped the Beresford MKV into the system, I was happy again, indeed it's better than the Nak wasand that was pretty good. Not that I disagree - money first into speakers, if you have crappy ones, but once you've reached a certain point a DAC can make a very pleasing difference. -- bossanova808 bossanova808's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
alekz;316365 Wrote: > This is the link to the picture: > http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/alekz-net/audio/samples/2L50SACD_tr1_96k_stereowav.png This shows all the over 20kHz stuff down 90 to 100 dB. That means it is realistically non-existent. Typically, "down 70 dB" means "cut out completely" since humans only have about 90dB of range. Plus a quiet living room is typically 35dB, and threshold of pain is about 96dB above that. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
seanadams wrote: > The energy _must_ go to zero before reaching 48KHz because that is the > nyquist frequency. Note the log scale - that is exactly what happens, > although it may not look it at first glance. True, that doesn't explain the relative peak from 30kHz to 40k or so. Note, its down 35+ db, from the peak, so its pretty minor no matter what it is. > I'd say it's probable that this material was not mastered properly, > perhaps due to 44.1 processing/equipment being used in the process. Kind of defeats the purpose of 96kHz marketing if they used 44.1k or 48k -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
The energy _must_ go to zero before reaching 48KHz because that is the nyquist frequency. Note the log scale - that is exactly what happens, although it may not look it at first glance. But that is a very sharp drop indeed, and it's hard to say why it rises so quickly after 22KHz before hitting that brick wall. I would think that a "good" 24/96 recording should have just a small amount of energy above 22KHz, tapering off gradually before hitting 48. The sharp drop suggests it may not have been LP filtered anywhere in he process. I'd say it's probable that this material was not mastered properly, perhaps due to 44.1 processing/equipment being used in the process. For example, older ∆∑ DACs generate quite a bit of noise above 22KHz unless it is properly filtered in the analog domain. Perhaps some such equipment was in the chain. Or perhaps an poorly implemented ADC stage captured some aliasing. I'm just speculating - it's not really my area of expertise, and there are too many possibilities because so much equipment designed to assume a 22KHz filter at playback. I think it would be interesting to look at other files, and smaller excerpts. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
For example, here is the Neumann site's spec sheet on the U87 mic, a classic "go to mic" for vocals http://www.neumann.com/zoom.php?zoomimg=./assets/diagrams/u87ai_diagrams.htm&zoomlabel=Diagram&w=878&h=278 The classic Neumann M50 is spec'd at "Frequency response: 40 - 16 000 cps" meaning 40 hZ to 16kHz in modern language -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
With high datarate FLACs (24-bit or DTS), it's usually a good idea to use a milder compression level than normal, to give the Squeezebox CPU a little more leeway. I use compression level 1 for high datarate tracks and level 7 for everything else and that seems to work fine. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
I think that I must be one of the very few people who actually LIKE the sound of the SB3 analog output. :) Just keep your signal cables short and use proper amp/speaker combos (go for system synergy), and I think it sounds great. Plus you thankfully get to avoid the jitter penalty of an S/PDIF conversion and cable, which is a major DAC design advantage of the SB3 in my opinion... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is there a way to eek out a little more detail...
Phil Leigh;311580 Wrote: > Actually there's an old studio trick. Sometime when you've sat listening > to a mix next to the nearfields for hours you get a bit...jaded - and > you kind of lose the plot in terms of eq, balance etc etc. However, > leaving the studio for a break and then returning a while later while > the track is still playing, from the hallway outside you can often hear > exactly what is wrong with the track (eg drums too loud, vocal eq > wrong). > It's like you reboot that aural memory part of your brain...and the odd > sound from outside is enough to cause that reboot... I know just what you mean. If I listen to speakers at hifi stores for too long, they all start to sound the same :) -- swhite58 Clark Connect Linux file server->Various boxes with flashing lights->SB3->Zhaolu D3 DAC->NAD C320BEE->Polk Monitor 4.5/Sennheiser headphones swhite58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5038 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48792 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is there a way to eek out a little more detail...
Just want to say Bryston has a new separate D/A converter out. The BDA-1 is one sleek unit. -- Anne Squeezebox 3 > Stereovox XV2 > Bryston B100-DA SST > Martin Logan Aeon I Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48792 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice on 24/96 with SB3 Please.
In the bug report I submitted, after discovering SqueezeCenter had clicks on 24/96, while the old SlimServer didnt have this problem it was concluded that the "compression" chosen when doing the flac rip was the cause of it. Keeping this at 5 should avoid the problem, but you can look up the bug report to see exactly what happened. -- Anne Squeezebox 3 > Stereovox XV2 > Bryston B100-DA SST > Carlsson OA50.2 > Sennheiser HD580 Precision Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49218 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Apple Lossless a compromise?
jgs;316382 Wrote: > FYI, I went ahead and opened bug 8620 > (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8620) analogous to bug > 571, to request FF/RW support for Apple Lossless. ... and it got dup'd and bug 571 updated to encompass Apple Lossless, which is fine. I also noticed another relevant bug, 3345 "support alac in hardware" (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3345). Note that you can vote for bugs if you make yourself a bugreporter account. Not sure how much votes actually matter, but I'm just sayin'. -- jgs jgs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34122 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
pfarrell;316377 Wrote: > Its a very naive idea. > Just adding a different version of the product ... > ... I would be stunned if SD/Logi would decide to make a Receiver++ > with a better DAC. > Read me again, Pat. I'm not asking for a different version of the product, but for an add-on product most demanding customers could find useful. I can't count the number of messages in SD forum where people ask for advice on a cheap (but better than SB3's) DAC! Maybe I'm naive, but it sounds to me that there's some clever business to be done there. pfarrell;316377 Wrote: > For an audiophile, there are plenty of choices, starting with an SB + > Benchmark or Lavry, up to a Transporter, or even a modified > Transporter. Yes. But I'm no audiophile, you see. I just want a quite cheap audio device (SB3) to sound quite as good as another quite cheap audio device (NAD C515BEE), without the need to spend thousands dollars to achieve this goal. pfarrell;316377 Wrote: > If you want to focus on buying CDs, by all means do so. Its your money, > and spend it where you want. What's the use of spending all my money in a music system if there's no money left for the music material? -- sebp System : Mac Mini for ripping to FLAC (Max) > SqueezeCenter 7.0.1 running on a ReadyNAS NV+ Living room : Squeezebox 3 > Sony STR DE-875 > Celestion F30 Bedroom : Squeezebox 3 > Beresford DAC > NAD C315BEE > KEF iQ3 Kitchen : SB Receiver > Logitech SoundMan X1 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/sebp) sebp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11768 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Apple Lossless a compromise?
jgs;316177 Wrote: > By the way, bug 571 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=571) > looks like it may be relevant. FYI, I went ahead and opened bug 8620 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8620) analogous to bug 571, to request FF/RW support for Apple Lossless. -- jgs jgs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34122 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cheaper TP, better Receiver was[ What DAC to use?
sebp wrote: > Ever thought about it? > Doesn't it make (good) sense? Its a very naive idea. Just adding a different version of the product is insanely expensive. In the early days SlimDevices offered the wireless SB and a wired-only version that was slightly cheaper. Its not clear that it ever made sense to SD, as having two products meant keeping inventories, potential for shipping errors, etc. For an audiophile, there are plenty of choices, starting with an SB + Benchmark or Lavry, up to a Transporter, or even a modified Transporter. If you want to focus on buying CDs, by all means do so. Its your money, and spend it where you want. I am only a customer, but I would be stunned if SD/Logi would decide to make a Receiver++ with a better DAC. The one in it is very good. I can't see it being a major seller, and Logitech is a high volume vendor -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Apple Lossless a compromise?
vincentyan;316197 Wrote: > Here is what I did: convert a song of Apple Lossless in iTunes to AIFF, > WAV, and MP3 (iTunes doesn't support FLAC so I can't test FLAC). The > resulting 3 files are .aif, .wav, and .mp3. Play them with > SqueezeCenter. I can only FF/RW the MP3 song, not the AIFF nor the > WAV. Any comment? > > It was strange that some of the AIFF songs in my iTunes library are > .m4a files - those imported uncompressed from Grarageband. Well of > course this is an iTunes issue and I guess I have to inquire Apple > about that. I just double-checked to make sure I'm not losing my mind. I'm not (well not about this anyway) -- I can FF/RW MP3 and AIFF. I also generated my AIFF using iTunes, by ripping to Apple Lossless using Max, then importing the Apple Lossless into iTunes and transcoding to AIFF using iTunes. When you select one of your AIFF songs and right-arrow to get the file's info and then scroll down to see the file format, what does it say? Mine says AIFF, which I presume means SqueezeCenter has recognized it as such. The file extension is indeed .aif. I'm running SqueezeCenter 7.0.1 though I remember this working before too. Another thing to check would be to look at your SqueezeCenter prefs, and go to the Advanced Tab and then choose File Types. See if AIFF is configured to stream natively. If not, change it to be. -- jgs jgs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34122 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
That's interesting... This is what SND said about B.Britten: Simple Symphony, Op. 4, downloaded from http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html (Stereo WAV 24/96): ' [image: http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/alekz-net/audio/samples/th_2L50SACD_tr1_96k_stereowav.png] ' (http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/alekz-net/audio/samples/2L50SACD_tr1_96k_stereowav.png) -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Themis;316331 Wrote: > I'm trying to understand. > > Well, marketing price sums up all that. Does a device sold 70$ has the > same "design" and "signal treatement" as a -say- 1000$ dac ? I bet no. > > So, each Device has a sonic signature in accordance to its price. And > the relative price of the SB3 dac is (at most) 100$. If it had enough > "design" and "signal treatment" as the Benchmark, it would probably be > sold the price of the Benchmark dac. > > Did I understood correctly ? :) As has already been said, if you want to make guesstimates about the cost of the dac-chip, you most probably might as well set it to 0, or a dollar or two for a device such as the SB3. Also for the marketprice of the product it is worth considering the cost of r&d versus the number of units produced. I dont know, but suspect that the cost of r&d for the SB3 can be distributed on quite a large number of devices compared to some of the (even) more esoteric dacs. -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
So, I used Adobe Audition 3 to perform a frequency analysis of a 24-bit/96Khz 'Studio Master' file from Linn Records (it's the 'Amen' from the Mozart Requiem). The FLAC was converted to WAV by foobar2000 before loading into Audition BTW. I'm wondering why there's a bunch of high frequency material after 3 then it drops away? Perhaps this isn't a true picture and something in the conversion and analysis isn't right? +---+ |Filename: Freq.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5370| +---+ -- amcluesent amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet and Controller Power Supplies
I just purchased the new Duet and Controller to use with my Theta Dac. I have found in my comparisons that the Transporter was a little better than the SB3 with Benchmark dac but the Theta GEn VIII is in another league compared to the Dac1. I picked the Duet because as I understand the digital out should yield the same result as the others SLim devices and I like the new Controller! I am looking at an upgraded PS possible Dusty's new CIA PS for the Duet Receiver. I have read a few comments that the Controller will dump noise into the line too becasuse it has a switching PS too? Can anyone elaborate on that or am I dreaming or not accurate? Thanks. -- mr_bill mr_bill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49411 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Worth noting - if you happen to be using a multi-room "synched" configuration, adding an external DAC in one room also adds latency which causes weird phase differences and echo-ee psycho acoustic effects... Then again... you could add the same DAC in every room if you had the budget and trust the manuf. latency spec ;-) -- matmar10 _ |\/|atthew J |\/|artin -- "An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field." - Niels Bohr matmar10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12874 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Totally off topic ... Seldom mentioned but critically important -- tune the room! If you're on a budget, this is one of the best and least expensive upgrades to your sound you can make -- there's plenty of options in terms of acoustic reinforcing material and a whole range of prices. A good starting point is to cut out any obvious frequencies that naturally resonate with your room (you know, that ONE darn bass tone that rattles the china in the other room). If you want to get fancy, you can plug in the dimensions of your room and figure out what placement, proximity, and orientation options for speakers will work best in the space you have available. There's a wealth of free info on room tuning as evidenced by a quick google search. IMHO spending $300 on tuning your room offers much more value than adding an external DAC into the signal path. -- matmar10 _ |\/|atthew J |\/|artin -- "An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field." - Niels Bohr matmar10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12874 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Themis;316331 Wrote: > I'm trying to understand. > > Well, marketing price sums up all that. Does a device sold 70$ has the > same "design" and "signal treatement" as a -say- 1000$ dac ? I bet no. > > So, each Device has a sonic signature in accordance to its price. And > the relative price of the SB3 dac is (at most) 100$. If it had enough > "design" and "signal treatment" as the Benchmark, it would probably be > sold the price of the Benchmark dac. > > Did I understood correctly ? :) So again you are assuming there is a DAC chip that costs $1k. Also you are equating the cost of the DAC chip with the quality of it's output when the careful end to end signal design of the board on which that DAC sits is much more important. You will also find that the cost of the "DAC" in a $1k DAC box is well under $100... likely as low as $20. Again we have qualified engineers that know how to treat a signal from end to end in our designs... I think you can draw a conclusion about what I am saying about some of the other less expensive DAC boxes that were recommended earlier in this thread. You're better off spending that money on better speakers. -- mvalera Michael Valera Online Communities Manager Logitech Streaming Media Business Unit slimdevices.com mvalera's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11086 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Themis;316331 Wrote: > I'm trying to understand. > > Well, marketing price sums up all that. Does a device sold 70$ has the > same "design" and "signal treatement" as a -say- 1000$ dac ? I bet no. > > So, each Device has a sonic signature in accordance to its price. And > the relative price of the SB3 dac is (at most) 100$. If it had enough > "design" and "signal treatment" as the Benchmark, it would probably be > sold the price of the Benchmark dac. > > Did I understood correctly ? :) You only missed that with the external DAC, you have to go through SPDIF interface, which is non existent in the design of the internal DAC. Now how much money would you put into the proper execution of that addition? K -- slimkid Where does the light go when you turn the switch off? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iAj2aPdQnk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvMNuuFSvN0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDRhRv4q_SI http://youtube.com/watch?v=nlrpe8Ig5m8 http://youtube.com/watch?v=dC9tGlwPln8 slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
mvalera;316321 Wrote: > The cost of the actual DAC chip (or the cost of the aluminum box in > which it sits) has very little to do with the quality of it's output. > Much more important is the design in which it sits, and how the signal > is treated from end to end. Qualified engineers spent a lot of time on > our DAC design... > > As for everything else Robin summed up what I was thinking pretty > well. > > MikeI'm trying to understand. Well, marketing price sums up all that. Does a device sold 70$ has the same "design" and "signal treatement" as a -say- 1000$ dac ? I bet no. So, each Device has a sonic signature in accordance to its price. And the relative price of the SB3 dac is (at most) 100$. If it had enough "design" and "signal treatment" as the Benchmark, it would probably be sold the price of the Benchmark dac. Did I understood correctly ? :) -- Themis SB3 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Themis;316268 Wrote: > > - The dac part of all that is about -let's say- 50-70 bucks. > > We get a -pretty- good 70$ dac. Did I get it all wrong ? :p > I think you'll find that the actual DAC in the SB2/3 cost something closer to a couple of dollars, not seventy dollars. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Themis;316268 Wrote: > Robin, I simply often noticed that, each time someone shows some > dissatisfaction about the SB3's dac the "usual" answer is : > a. Get a 1000$ (or more) dac, > b. Get a Transporter > In my humble opinion, the facts are the following: > - SB3 costs 300$ > - in these 300$, you get bundled a network card, a drive, a dac, a > remote controller, some software (squeezecenter and sb) plus some > services. > - The dac part of all that is about -let's say- 50-70 bucks. > > We get a -pretty- good 70$ dac. Did I get it all wrong ? :p > > Obviously, sebp is right about speakers' upgrade. (btw, which is the > author's speaker setup ?) The cost of the DAC has very little to do with the quality of it's output. Much more important is the design in which it sits, and how the signal is treated from end to end. Qualified engineers spent a lot of time on our DAC design... As for everything else Robin summed up what I was thinking pretty well. Mike -- mvalera Michael Valera Online Communities Manager Logitech Streaming Media Business Unit slimdevices.com mvalera's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11086 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
bhaagensen;316287 Wrote: > I second that. I used an old Audiolab 8000DAC with my SB3 for years. The > 8000DAC was cheap and old with specs to laugh at even back when I got > it. Still it sounded quite good (i.e. better than the SB3 to my ears).I > second that, too (if you can listen to the dac before you buy it, of course). Tonal color can't be bound to specs. ;) -- Themis SB3 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Apple Lossless a compromise?
m1abrams;316080 Wrote: > Wow, did they add more support after initial release? Cause I could > have sworn it was just WAV, FLAC, and MP3. Yes, Ogg and WMA were added in firmware updates. AIFF was always there, it's almost identical to WAV. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34122 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Saughassy;316260 Wrote: > Why do you think in brand new DAC? Forget specs and believe your ears. > Old DACS are pretty cheap (my Audio Alchemy was 400 USD but i think > available lower prices too) 16 bit 48khz max, below 100db sn ratio, but > sounds damn good. I second that. I used an old Audiolab 8000DAC with my SB3 for years. The 8000DAC was cheap and old with specs to laugh at even back when I got it. Still it sounded quite good (i.e. better than the SB3 to my ears). -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Robin Bowes;316236 Wrote: > Themis wrote: > > mvalera;316160 Wrote: > >> OMG! Stay the hell away from the Moodlabs dice DAC as well... get > better > >> speakers. > > I see: so according to you there's no dac under 500$ that is better > > than SB3 internal dac... > > > > Pretty funny :) > > Er, no. He's advising that, in his humble opinion, the Moodlabs DAC is > > not very good. There are many other DACs under $500 that may or may not > > be better than the SB3 internal DAC. > > My own personal opinion is that the OP would get a better "bang for > buck" by either: > > 1. Upgrading amp/speakers > or > 2. Buying a Transporter > or > 3. Buying a *much* better DAC > > R.Robin, I simply often noticed that, each time someone shows some dissatisfaction about the SB3's dac the "usual" answer is : a. Get a 1000$ (or more) dac, b. Get a Transporter In my humble opinion, the facts are the following: - SB3 costs 300$ - in these 300$, you get bundled a network card, a drive, a dac, a remote controller, some software (squeezecenter and sb) plus some services. - The dac part of all that is about -let's say- 50-70 bucks. We get a -pretty- good 70$ dac. Did I get it all wrong ? :p Obviously, sebp is right about speakers' upgrade. (btw, which is the author's speaker setup ?) -- Themis SB3 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Why do you think in brand new DAC? Forget specs and believe your ears. Old DACS are pretty cheap (my Audio Alchemy was 400 USD but i think available lower prices too) 16 bit 48khz max, below 100db sn ratio, but sounds damn good. -- Saughassy Saughassy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18489 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
I had a Benchmark DAC1 Pre on loan for a couple of weeks recently to compare with my Naim CDX/Hicap/82 preamp. Suffice to say, after 3 days, I sold my $5K (used values) worth of Naim gear and run the DAC1 Pre directly into my remaining Naim 180 power amp and Shahinian Arc speakers. The DAC1 has blown me away. Bass extension and definition I didn't think the Arcs could run to and a 3D quality to the sound stage with all sorts of subtle layers I hadn't picked up on before. Analogue input is also top notch - I run my turntable through it. You also get a high quality headphone amp thrown in as well - I use Sennheiser 650s and I'm a very happy chap. Service has been fab - can't recommend it enough. -- BDG BDG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18525 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
Themis wrote: > mvalera;316160 Wrote: >> OMG! Stay the hell away from the Moodlabs dice DAC as well... get better >> speakers. > I see: so according to you there's no dac under 500$ that is better > than SB3 internal dac... > > Pretty funny :) Er, no. He's advising that, in his humble opinion, the Moodlabs DAC is not very good. There are many other DACs under $500 that may or may not be better than the SB3 internal DAC. My own personal opinion is that the OP would get a better "bang for buck" by either: 1. Upgrading amp/speakers or 2. Buying a Transporter or 3. Buying a *much* better DAC R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
mvalera;316159 Wrote: > I would not waste the money on the Bereford. It's specs don't look any > better than the Classic. > You'd be better off spending the 165 British Pounds on speakers. mvalera;316160 Wrote: > OMG! Stay the hell away from the Moodlabs dice DAC as well... get better > speakers. Mike, it looks like you own shares in the speakers manufacturing industry, don't you? ;-) Anyway, I went your way. My new speakers enhanced the sound of my NAD CD player very much, which makes me notice a lot more than my SB3 sounds very poor next to it. Don't you think, as I do, that having to spend 1000 in a DAC to make my 300 (at purchase time) SB3 sound at least as good as my 330 CD player on a 700 amp+speakers system is a bit overkill? -- sebp System : Mac Mini for ripping to FLAC (Max) > SqueezeCenter 7.0.1 running on a ReadyNAS NV+ Living room : Squeezebox 3 > Sony STR DE-875 > Celestion F30 Bedroom : Squeezebox 3 > Beresford DAC > NAD C315BEE > KEF iQ3 Kitchen : SB Receiver > Logitech SoundMan X1 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/sebp) sebp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11768 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
I think mine is V or VI -- bossanova808 bossanova808's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
mvalera;316160 Wrote: > OMG! Stay the hell away from the Moodlabs dice DAC as well... get better > speakers. I see: so according to you there's no dac under 500$ that is better than SB3 internal dac... Pretty funny :) -- Themis SB3 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
bossanova808;316194 Wrote: > I think you're being harsh on the Beresford - I have one and it made a > substantial improvement in the Sb3's sound. Hard to go wrong for the > price and if you ask me there's no reason per se a good DAC can't be > built for that sort of price. Most of the price with the others is > sheer hoo hah and a pretty box. My mate has the first Beresford DAC and the latest version. The first one I borrowed and found it to be 'grey' sounding and totally un-involving. However, my mate assures me that the latest version sounds very much better. This may account for seeing the different opinions of the Beresford DAC around the various forums. Needless to say, I would stay well clear of the MkI version! -- Nuuk Nuuk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4844 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
